Eighth Amendment Referendum
Comments
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I hate this stupid argument so much. How many women have you 'seen' get an abortion. This stupid red top that view that women are running out and getting abortions like they do hot meals with no thought or care going into it is just pure ignorance. I'm glad that your baby is the best thing to happen to you Paulie, I am. And you had the choice to go with the pregnancy or not. You chose to go through with it; if you'd decided that you really couldn't support a baby though, you also would have had the right to terminate the pregnancy while it was a foetus. The rights were there and you chose one road instead of the other. Why do you think your opinion on the situation should be enshrined in law and take away women's right to choose?paulie8290 said:
What about the Babies choice to be born??kimbo said:That would be fantastic result. About time women were given choice
IMO abortions should only be allowed in exceptional circumstances I:E Rape.
But other than that if you dont want a baby then put something on it or have the implant or go on the pill.
Fed up of seeing people 'accidently' get pregnant and abort.
If you have chosen to have sex and chosen not to use protection then its a choice not an accident.
Was my daughter planned no
Was it correct timing most definetly not.
Did we even consider abortion 100% no
Is she the best thing to have happened to me 110% yes15 -
Good imo its a womans right to choose
lets hope they get on and implement the will of the people and the loosers except the vote and shut the fuck up2 -
Keep the brexit away, but the bollocks are integral.Stu_of_Kunming said:If there's one thread we really should keep the brexit bollocks off, it must be this one.
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Precisely my point.Big_Bad_World said:
What right do the men of Ireland have, if you're going down that route?The Red Robin said:
And as a man what right do you have to tell a woman what to do with her body?paulie8290 said:
What about the Babies choice to be born??kimbo said:That would be fantastic result. About time women were given choice
IMO abortions should only be allowed in exceptional circumstances I:E Rape.
But other than that if you dont want a baby then put something on it or have the implant or go on the pill.
Fed up of seeing people 'accidently' get pregnant and abort.
If you have chosen to have sex and chosen not to use protection then its a choice not an accident.
Was my daughter planned no
Was it correct timing most definetly not.
Did we even consider abortion 100% no
Is she the best thing to have happened to me 110% yes0 -
The people of Ireland didn't know what they were voting for.
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Why are we discussing this?
We didn't care what they thought in 1921 and that hasn't changed.0 -
YetStu_of_Kunming said:
No, it doesn't, I'd suggest some further research.paulie8290 said:
Not exactly no.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Then surely you agree with the vote?paulie8290 said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
You don't really understand this referendum, do you?paulie8290 said:
What about the Babies choice to be born??kimbo said:That would be fantastic result. About time women were given choice
IMO abortions should only be allowed in exceptional circumstances I:E Rape.
But other than that if you dont want a baby then put something on it or have the implant or go on the pill.
Fed up of seeing people 'accidently' get pregnant and abort.
If you have chosen to have sex and chosen not to use protection then its a choice not an accident.
Was my daughter planned no
Was it correct timing most definetly not.
Did we even consider abortion 100% no
Is she the best thing to have happened to me 110% yes
I stand by my statement which is my opinion and my right to say so Abortions should only be legal in exceptional circumstances like Rape
A yes vote means anyone could have an abortion like here which as I have stated IMO is wrong.0 -
What do you base that on?smudge7946 said:The people of Ireland didn't know what they were voting for.
I read the Irish papers and talk to people I know in Ireland. If they don't know they've chosen not to. The campaign was all over the traditional and new media. With both sides airing their views.4 -
I think Smudge was making a point that most of us would find offensive.iainment said:
What do you base that on?smudge7946 said:The people of Ireland didn't know what they were voting for.
I read the Irish papers and talk to people I know in Ireland. If they don't know they've chosen not to. The campaign was all over the traditional and new media. With both sides airing their views.
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At the risk of appearing pedantic, it doesn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Chizz said:Well done to Ireland on running a hard-fought, intelligent referendum, on engaging voters across the country and establishing a clear, fair decision.
It's a delicate balance, of course, between the rights, demands and aspirations of thousands of women in the most unimaginably difficult, depressing and constraining situation on the one hand, and Paulie feeling a bit hurt on the other.
From someone who is disqualified from having a relevant opinion on two counts (I'm not Irish and I'm not female), I think they made the right decision.
Good post.
The thing is. Nothing in this change to the eight amendment will make those that don’t want to have a termination do so. It merely gives individuals the right to make important decisions about their OWN body. The right of choice.
Not sure how anyone can consider this wrong.
What the referendum does do is take away the Constitutional restriction (only introduced in 1983) preventing the Dail from legislating (no matter how important the issue).
The Government have made clear what kind of legislation they would seek to introduce, there is still a process to go through before the choice is enshrined in law.
It does, however, allow medical professionals an indication that they act more freely than before and avoid the tragedy of Savita Halappanavar happening again.
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But it is the start of a process where women will be given a choice where before they had none.NornIrishAddick said:
At the risk of appearing pedantic, it doesn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Chizz said:Well done to Ireland on running a hard-fought, intelligent referendum, on engaging voters across the country and establishing a clear, fair decision.
It's a delicate balance, of course, between the rights, demands and aspirations of thousands of women in the most unimaginably difficult, depressing and constraining situation on the one hand, and Paulie feeling a bit hurt on the other.
From someone who is disqualified from having a relevant opinion on two counts (I'm not Irish and I'm not female), I think they made the right decision.
Good post.
The thing is. Nothing in this change to the eight amendment will make those that don’t want to have a termination do so. It merely gives individuals the right to make important decisions about their OWN body. The right of choice.
Not sure how anyone can consider this wrong.
What the referendum does do is take away the Constitutional restriction (only introduced in 1983) preventing the Dail from legislating (no matter how important the issue).
The Government have made clear what kind of legislation they would seek to introduce, there is still a process to go through before the choice is enshrined in law.
It does, however, allow medical professionals an indication that they act more freely than before and avoid the tragedy of Savita Halappanavar happening again.
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Absolutely, but it is worth considering how many (particularly Fianna Fail or Independents) Oireachtas politicians were on the "No" side.ShootersHillGuru said:
But it is the start of a process where women will be given a choice where before they had none.NornIrishAddick said:
At the risk of appearing pedantic, it doesn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Chizz said:Well done to Ireland on running a hard-fought, intelligent referendum, on engaging voters across the country and establishing a clear, fair decision.
It's a delicate balance, of course, between the rights, demands and aspirations of thousands of women in the most unimaginably difficult, depressing and constraining situation on the one hand, and Paulie feeling a bit hurt on the other.
From someone who is disqualified from having a relevant opinion on two counts (I'm not Irish and I'm not female), I think they made the right decision.
Good post.
The thing is. Nothing in this change to the eight amendment will make those that don’t want to have a termination do so. It merely gives individuals the right to make important decisions about their OWN body. The right of choice.
Not sure how anyone can consider this wrong.
What the referendum does do is take away the Constitutional restriction (only introduced in 1983) preventing the Dail from legislating (no matter how important the issue).
The Government have made clear what kind of legislation they would seek to introduce, there is still a process to go through before the choice is enshrined in law.
It does, however, allow medical professionals an indication that they act more freely than before and avoid the tragedy of Savita Halappanavar happening again.3 -
Enough to put a spanner in the works ?NornIrishAddick said:
Absolutely, but it is worth considering how many (particularly Fianna Fail or Independents) Oireachtas politicians were on the "No" side.ShootersHillGuru said:
But it is the start of a process where women will be given a choice where before they had none.NornIrishAddick said:
At the risk of appearing pedantic, it doesn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Chizz said:Well done to Ireland on running a hard-fought, intelligent referendum, on engaging voters across the country and establishing a clear, fair decision.
It's a delicate balance, of course, between the rights, demands and aspirations of thousands of women in the most unimaginably difficult, depressing and constraining situation on the one hand, and Paulie feeling a bit hurt on the other.
From someone who is disqualified from having a relevant opinion on two counts (I'm not Irish and I'm not female), I think they made the right decision.
Good post.
The thing is. Nothing in this change to the eight amendment will make those that don’t want to have a termination do so. It merely gives individuals the right to make important decisions about their OWN body. The right of choice.
Not sure how anyone can consider this wrong.
What the referendum does do is take away the Constitutional restriction (only introduced in 1983) preventing the Dail from legislating (no matter how important the issue).
The Government have made clear what kind of legislation they would seek to introduce, there is still a process to go through before the choice is enshrined in law.
It does, however, allow medical professionals an indication that they act more freely than before and avoid the tragedy of Savita Halappanavar happening again.
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It's the standard response to a referendum.iainment said:
What do you base that on?smudge7946 said:The people of Ireland didn't know what they were voting for.
I read the Irish papers and talk to people I know in Ireland. If they don't know they've chosen not to. The campaign was all over the traditional and new media. With both sides airing their views.1 -
NornIrishAddick - what your thoughts on the likely impact in Northern Ireland? Ironic now that it is the Republic that seems to be a liberal, progressive nation while NI seems stuck in the 1950s, politically at least.0
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Doubtful, but could slow things down, or amend a bit.ShootersHillGuru said:
Enough to put a spanner in the works ?NornIrishAddick said:
Absolutely, but it is worth considering how many (particularly Fianna Fail or Independents) Oireachtas politicians were on the "No" side.ShootersHillGuru said:
But it is the start of a process where women will be given a choice where before they had none.NornIrishAddick said:
At the risk of appearing pedantic, it doesn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Chizz said:Well done to Ireland on running a hard-fought, intelligent referendum, on engaging voters across the country and establishing a clear, fair decision.
It's a delicate balance, of course, between the rights, demands and aspirations of thousands of women in the most unimaginably difficult, depressing and constraining situation on the one hand, and Paulie feeling a bit hurt on the other.
From someone who is disqualified from having a relevant opinion on two counts (I'm not Irish and I'm not female), I think they made the right decision.
Good post.
The thing is. Nothing in this change to the eight amendment will make those that don’t want to have a termination do so. It merely gives individuals the right to make important decisions about their OWN body. The right of choice.
Not sure how anyone can consider this wrong.
What the referendum does do is take away the Constitutional restriction (only introduced in 1983) preventing the Dail from legislating (no matter how important the issue).
The Government have made clear what kind of legislation they would seek to introduce, there is still a process to go through before the choice is enshrined in law.
It does, however, allow medical professionals an indication that they act more freely than before and avoid the tragedy of Savita Halappanavar happening again.3 -
I think there will be pressure in the UK Government to make noises about legislating. Sinn Fein are likely to make it, and marriage equality, a requirement for any reintroduction of the Stormont Assembly.redsek said:NornIrishAddick - what your thoughts on the likely impact in Northern Ireland? Ironic now that it is the Republic that seems to be a liberal, progressive nation while NI seems stuck in the 1950s, politically at least.
Edit. It is worth pointing out that the SDLP have recently become split on the issue, and there is the Petition of Concern in the Assembly, I cannot see there being any other way of changing the law here than by Westminster Act of Parliament.
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Galway East the first constituency to report official return 60.2% for "Yes".
Watching RTE, it's remarkable that, in the South West, it is deemed newsworthy when a constituency tally drops below a 60% "Yes" figure...0 -
Interesting times. At least women in NI will have a much easier journey to access their right to terminate a pregnancy, hard border or no hard border.NornIrishAddick said:
i think there will be pressure in the UK Government to make noises about legislating. Sinn Fein are likely to make it, and marriage equality, a requirement for any reintroduction of the Stormont Assembly.redsek said:NornIrishAddick - what your thoughts on the likely impact in Northern Ireland? Ironic now that it is the Republic that seems to be a liberal, progressive nation while NI seems stuck in the 1950s, politically at least.
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True.redsek said:
Interesting times. At least women in NI will have a much easier journey to access their right to terminate a pregnancy, hard border or no hard border.NornIrishAddick said:
i think there will be pressure in the UK Government to make noises about legislating. Sinn Fein are likely to make it, and marriage equality, a requirement for any reintroduction of the Stormont Assembly.redsek said:NornIrishAddick - what your thoughts on the likely impact in Northern Ireland? Ironic now that it is the Republic that seems to be a liberal, progressive nation while NI seems stuck in the 1950s, politically at least.
I'd hope that politicians here could move down the same path, so that it wouldn't be necessary.2 -
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I urge anyone who isn't clear what #repealthe8th truly means to read the Facebook page 'In her shoes'
There are some heart wrenching stories of what Irish women have had to go through because of this amendment to the constitution.
And if, after reading, there are still some who think its 'all about abortion' I believe they are traveling up that famous Egyptian river with blinkers the size of their head.
I'm so relieved that it looks like the future of Ireland's women is much brighter.16 -
Very well said.KBslittlesis said:I urge anyone who isn't clear what #repealthe8th truly means to read the Facebook page 'In her shoes'
There are some heart wrenching stories of what Irish women have had to go through because of this amendment to the constitution.
And if, after reading, there are still some who think its 'all about abortion' I believe they are traveling up that famous Egyptian river with blinkers the size of their head.
I'm so relieved that it looks like the future of Ireland's women is much brighter.4 -
Through what you say can I assume that you believe being an unwanted child, or growing up to have mental issues is a life not worth living?Dazzler21 said:
My friend's wife has just given birth (had a cesarian) to welcome a beautiful healthy daughter into the world at just 7 months because of the need for Chemo to start. Both my friend and his wife said they wouldn't have dared to choose Chemo over bringing a wanted life into this world.palarsehater said:The mrs is Irish and she feels very strongly for the yes vote, another situation is a pregnant mother ( 1 month gone ) is diagnosed with cancer and because she is pregnant cannot have chemo because she is pregnant, also if a baby is deemed to not survive outside the womb the expectant mother has no choice but to carry the baby - must be an horrendous thing to have to do.
Also @paulie8290 surely you don't think it's right to make having a baby a punishment for all the teens and adults that have unprotected sex, potentially whilst out on a piss up or when a condom breaks or when a pill fails etc?!
Abortion whilst seemingly inhumane can stop a life being brought into the world unwanted, forcing a life to grow up unwanted is a sure way to have a kid grow up with personality and/or mental health disorders.
It's far too big an issue for a closed mind. We have to consider all options and abortion decisions should be accountable to the pregnant mother and the professional on a case by case basis.0 -
Only the person who is living that life can truly answer that.JoshrewCAFC said:
Through what you say can I assume that you believe being an unwanted child, or growing up to have mental issues is a life not worth living?Dazzler21 said:
My friend's wife has just given birth (had a cesarian) to welcome a beautiful healthy daughter into the world at just 7 months because of the need for Chemo to start. Both my friend and his wife said they wouldn't have dared to choose Chemo over bringing a wanted life into this world.palarsehater said:The mrs is Irish and she feels very strongly for the yes vote, another situation is a pregnant mother ( 1 month gone ) is diagnosed with cancer and because she is pregnant cannot have chemo because she is pregnant, also if a baby is deemed to not survive outside the womb the expectant mother has no choice but to carry the baby - must be an horrendous thing to have to do.
Also @paulie8290 surely you don't think it's right to make having a baby a punishment for all the teens and adults that have unprotected sex, potentially whilst out on a piss up or when a condom breaks or when a pill fails etc?!
Abortion whilst seemingly inhumane can stop a life being brought into the world unwanted, forcing a life to grow up unwanted is a sure way to have a kid grow up with personality and/or mental health disorders.
It's far too big an issue for a closed mind. We have to consider all options and abortion decisions should be accountable to the pregnant mother and the professional on a case by case basis.4 -
Excellent post. I don’t think anyone decent would ever see abortion as a contraceptive. However, even if some do, the alternative is even less palitable.Garrymanilow said:
I hate this stupid argument so much. How many women have you 'seen' get an abortion. This stupid red top that view that women are running out and getting abortions like they do hot meals with no thought or care going into it is just pure ignorance. I'm glad that your baby is the best thing to happen to you Paulie, I am. And you had the choice to go with the pregnancy or not. You chose to go through with it; if you'd decided that you really couldn't support a baby though, you also would have had the right to terminate the pregnancy while it was a foetus. The rights were there and you chose one road instead of the other. Why do you think your opinion on the situation should be enshrined in law and take away women's right to choose?paulie8290 said:
What about the Babies choice to be born??kimbo said:That would be fantastic result. About time women were given choice
IMO abortions should only be allowed in exceptional circumstances I:E Rape.
But other than that if you dont want a baby then put something on it or have the implant or go on the pill.
Fed up of seeing people 'accidently' get pregnant and abort.
If you have chosen to have sex and chosen not to use protection then its a choice not an accident.
Was my daughter planned no
Was it correct timing most definetly not.
Did we even consider abortion 100% no
Is she the best thing to have happened to me 110% yes
My wife is a child protection social worker and she would be able to give examples of several ‘mothers’ who have had multiple children, double figures in some cases, and don’t even try to take them home from the hospital. They get pregnant because they are too high, or just don’t care, to use contraceptives, give birth and just leave the baby for the system to care for from day 1.
I am incredibly proud of the work my wife does, but even she will tell you about the reality that the care system can be deeply floored and growing up in it is sometimes barely any better for the kids than staying with their incapable natural parents. I’d rather these stains on human existence have 50 abortions than bring one unwanted child into the world to abandon into care and condemn that kid to carry all the issues that can bring about for the rest of their life.
In fact, for serial offenders like the ones I’m talking about, I’d be willing to consider taking away their right to choose to get pregnant in the first place, but that’s a whole other issue.3 -
An interesting point made on RTE that everyone was clear about what was being voted for - those seeking to overturn the 8th had made absolutely clear what the proposed legislation would be, and voters voting for the change knew precisely what they were voting to achieve.
Which means that it is much more difficult for opponents to frustrate the headline outcome of the referendum.8 -
Grown up politics.NornIrishAddick said:An interesting point made on RTE that everyone was clear about what was being voted for - those seeking to overturn the 8th had made absolutely clear what the proposed legislation would be, and voters voting for the change knew precisely what they were voting to achieve.
Which means that it is much more difficult for opponents to frustrate the headline outcome of the referendum.5 -
How refreshingly sensible.NornIrishAddick said:An interesting point made on RTE that everyone was clear about what was being voted for - those seeking to overturn the 8th had made absolutely clear what the proposed legislation would be, and voters voting for the change knew precisely what they were voting to achieve.
Which means that it is much more difficult for opponents to frustrate the headline outcome of the referendum.
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And at the time of writing with 37/40 constituencies declared it's standing at (roughly) 67.30 Yes/32.70 No, a shade over a 2/3s majority. I don't think there can be any doubt as to what the overwhelming majority of Irish voters voted for, or any doubt as to what they want.NornIrishAddick said:An interesting point made on RTE that everyone was clear about what was being voted for - those seeking to overturn the 8th had made absolutely clear what the proposed legislation would be, and voters voting for the change knew precisely what they were voting to achieve.
Which means that it is much more difficult for opponents to frustrate the headline outcome of the referendum.
There are many arguments that will surely be made against a woman's right to choose, and being American I've unfortunately heard most if not all of them, but I don't think there is any doubt about what the large majority of Irish people want.6 -
Worth reading chapter 4 in Freakonomics on the subject:golfaddick said:posted after only having read Paulie's post;
I'm so 100% on the opposite camp I'm afraid.
Too many children are brought into this world because 2 people wanted a shag. Just because a women gets pregnant doesn't mean a child has to be born.
and I've got 3 kids so know excatly what amount of joy they bring....and been through miscarrisges as well & see scans at various ages of development.
ex wife was a midwife so know what is involved in an abortion & a d&c.
Chapter 4: The role legalized abortion has played in reducing crime, contrasted with the policies and downfall of Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceauşescu (Levitt explored this topic in an earlier paper entitled "The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime," written with John Donohue.)
Certain states in the US repealed anti abortion legislation, and twenty (roughly?) years later there was a dramatic, sudden, reduction in the crime rate in those states. I guess the message is that wanted children are less likely to turn to crime than unwanted children.1
