Fans Forum resuming 11 July
Comments
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Yeah, but we wanted an update last night:Pico said:ShootersHillGuru said:I’ll go further. If anyone who attended this shite meeting is not now informing us all of what was said then they are just club patsy’s. Our club is at risk here. Man up ffs.
Well, thanks a lot, Shooters Hill Guru.
I went to the meeting at 3pm and it finished soon after 4pm. It was agreed that a summary of the meeting would be produced by Tom Rubashow (TR) from his recording and he would send it to me for comment (this is a role I have fulfilled on behalf of the FF for the last year or so). That seems to me to be an example of good practice which in my experience is common procedure in producing meeting records.
( I am a great admirer of Fulham Supporters Trust and the productive relationship they have built up with Fulham FC. They have done this by developing trust through exactly this sort of process.)
The production of a meeting summary (as compared to a verbatim record) is by definition a question of choosing what are the crucial things which need to be highlighted. Different people in a meeting might well have different views about what is important. Ensuring that the club and the FF (in the shape of me) had input into the summary went some way, to ensuring a balance is achieved.
Given the high level of interest in the meeting it was agreed that we would try to produce an agreed summary yesterday evening.
I received the first draft at 5.30pm. There were a few things which I thought should be included which weren't. There was also some stuff which I thought wasn't needed. I also thought there were some changes which might make the document easier to digest and less ambiguous. There were a couple of things which I thought were incorrect. I sent back the document with my suggested revisions at 6.30pm.
There was then a football match on TV which I (and TR) were quite keen to watch.
Nearly all my suggested revisions were accepted and the summary amended accordingly. However, the two things which I thought were incorrect proved not to be incorrect. The recording of the meeting was not surprisingly more accurate than the notes I had taken. I assume TR listened to the recording again at half time to check this.
After the game had finished there were still a couple of points outstanding which I wanted to pursue so I agreed with TR that we would not try to cut corners and that he would delay publication until this morning.
When I woke up this morning those points didn't seem so important but I noticed that HMRC had been specifically mentioned in the meeting but that it was not in the summary, so I e mailed TR and he subsequently included it.
The outcome of all this was that a summary of the meeting to which both parties have agreed was published the morning after the meeting. (If someone else from the FF had taken my place the summary might look a bit different, but I hope that those at the meeting think it reflects most of the important stuff).
What possible positive purpose would it have served for seven different supporters to have posted their version and interpretation of events during yesterday evening ? I suggest it might have been chaotic and I suspect that people would soon have been clamouring for the "official" version.
A patsy is "a person who is easily cheated or victimised" (Collins Dictionary). I'm not sure if I and my six colleagues from yesterday really deserve such an epithet purely because we stuck to an agreed, commonplace and civilised process.
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Thankyou Richard and sorry for being such a post WC exit grumpy sod last night
On reflection I think my issue is not about the accuracy of how the meeting is reported, more that I doubt that any accurate meeting reports reflect in any way an accurate picture of what is happening.
Sorry Tom R and anyone else from the club reading this but I no longer believe a word you peddle so sullied are the memories of the last 4 years.
Its not so much Bens WIOTOS but WIOTOS once Duchatelet has gone 100% for me.6 -
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If that's what expressing one's appreciation to someone who gives up their free time to serve on committees for the benefit of others is, then so be itElfsborgAddick said:
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"Restricted cash" is not unusual in relatively high risk sectors - it's not a sign of a healthy balance sheet but equally not that unusual. It may be that this reflects the nature of football as an industry rather than Charlton as a business.Airman Brown said:The credit card thing is extraordinary. The banks have been demanding a much higher transaction fee for season tickets from Charlton or the value to be underwritten by guarantees since about 2010. That was why a fee was introduced to discourage people from using credit cards, but it never covered the cost. The bank holding back the funds for match by match release is a sign that they have no confidence in the administration of the club.
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Think he was having a laugh RC, at least I hope so.RedChaser said:
If that's what expressing one's appreciation to someone who gives up their free time to serve on committees for the benefit of others is, then so be itElfsborgAddick said: .
You may be going to get a whoosh!1 -
Double a***licker!RedChaser said:
If that's what expressing one's appreciation to someone who gives up their free time to serve on committees for the benefit of others is, then so be itElfsborgAddick said: .5 -
Chaser and me are solid.SoundAsa£ said:
Think he was having a laugh RC, at least I hope so.RedChaser said:
If that's what expressing one's appreciation to someone who gives up their free time to serve on committees for the benefit of others is, then so be itElfsborgAddick said: .
You may be going to get a whoosh!1 -
Too much information there .ElfsborgAddick said:
Chaser and me are solid.SoundAsa£ said:
Think he was having a laugh RC, at least I hope so.RedChaser said:
If that's what expressing one's appreciation to someone who gives up their free time to serve on committees for the benefit of others is, then so be itElfsborgAddick said: .
You may be going to get a whoosh!3 -
The joint statement by club and Fans Forum..
One part of this states……...The sale agreed with the Australians does not include STAPRIX retaining The Valley or Sparrows Lane...…...BUT DOES THIS MEAN SOMEONE OTHER THAN STAPRIX COULD RETAIN the valley or sparrows lane.
This is how i have become at the moment disbelieving almost everything the club has to say.....sorry about this0 - Sponsored links:
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Got it / your meaning now. Thank you.Airman Brown said:
I'm suggesting that these young players have been required to attend for breakfast, so the argument that "it's not really used" makes no sense. If it's "not used", what's the saving anyway? We know it is still being provided for senior players.valleynick66 said:
Sorry don’t follow. Are you suggesting it’s compulsory to provide breakfast they cut it anyway and no one on the football side was able to persuade them not to ?Airman Brown said:
It would be compulsory, I should think.valleynick66 said:
I didn’t read that he wasn’t aware of the cost cutting itself just not the debate on here!Airman Brown said:
You don’t think that the guy who is nominally in charge of the business and has a brief to cut costs ought to be aware of a cost-cutting decision that has led to internal disquiet circulating in public?valleynick66 said:
You’d rather they didn’t? Not sure what else you would expect them to say publicly.Airman Brown said:
The club will look into its own management decision, brought to its attention by fans...seth plum said:So the breakfast thing is true.
The club will 'look in to it'.
Maybe the 11% saved in energy costs comes from not boiling a kettle for a breakfast cuppa.
Maybe we get the press and TV to the gates of Sparrows Lane early in the morning as we fans offer the players cornflakes and bananas as they roll in in their Range Rovers, or as the younger ones walk in to work.
I don’t know any details on what breakfast actually amounts to and how used / liked / needed but concern raised and acknowledged is at least something that can be followed up on at next meeting. Even if no decision is reversed.
I do wonder if the footballing management team involved with those directly impacted forcefully gave feedback on this as I’d have thought that opinion is the one that matters. That’s more interesting to appreciate.
Question remains do we know if the football management team supported this or otherwise voiced concerns. I just don’t know if it’s a big deal or not.
Sounds poor but if it’s not really used by those impacted maybe a non issue.
There seems to be an idea on this that it's some kind of perk - I'm suggesting that getting the young players in early to eat together is more likely to be a dietary priority and part of the discipline of being in at a certain time in the morning and being part of the group.
The sums involved in this will be trivial in a professional football context even over a full year and even if money has been wasted in this area in the past then presumably that is the previous chief executive's fault?
So I am surprised the football senior management team weren’t able to stop this happening. Their view more relevant than ours as fans on this sort of thing.
Agree savings not obviously significant which makes it stranger that it was implemented.
An action at FF to look into it only makes sense to me on this context if no one internally made the argument to keep breakfasts and which if you say is common practice elsewhere is unlikely.
Based on this the action would be token at best.
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Don't be sorry, you join a very long list.Lewis Coaches said:The joint statement by club and Fans Forum..
One part of this states……...The sale agreed with the Australians does not include STAPRIX retaining The Valley or Sparrows Lane...…...BUT DOES THIS MEAN SOMEONE OTHER THAN STAPRIX COULD RETAIN the valley or sparrows lane.
This is how i have become at the moment disbelieving almost everything the club has to say.....sorry about this2 -
I've just read this thread and can barely believe some of the comments made last night.
It would appear that a few of our fans not only don't appreciate fellow fans attending an afternoon meeting on our World Cup semi final day, all of course unpaid and some having to take time off work.
Then they hurl insults at the said volunteers, because it would appear that they expected them to miss England's game, in order that they could get the minutes out for said individuals to read post match.
Poor poor show and personally I'd like to thank Pico, Razil, killerjerrylee and all the attendees for informing us so speedily.30 -
Totally agree with you.Covered End said:I've just read this thread and can barely believe some of the comments made last night.
It would appear that a few of our fans not only don't appreciate fellow fans attending an afternoon meeting on our World Cup semi final day, all of course unpaid and some having to take time off work.
Then they hurl insults at the said volunteers, because it would appear that they expected them to miss England's game, in order that they could get the minutes out for said individuals to read post match.
Poor poor show and personally I'd like to thank Pico, Razil, killerjerrylee and all the attendees for informing us so speedily.
But you missed something out.
Just sell the club and FUCK OFF2 -
Out of order, Covered End does not own the club.blackpool72 said:
Totally agree with you.Covered End said:I've just read this thread and can barely believe some of the comments made last night.
It would appear that a few of our fans not only don't appreciate fellow fans attending an afternoon meeting on our World Cup semi final day, all of course unpaid and some having to take time off work.
Then they hurl insults at the said volunteers, because it would appear that they expected them to miss England's game, in order that they could get the minutes out for said individuals to read post match.
Poor poor show and personally I'd like to thank Pico, Razil, killerjerrylee and all the attendees for informing us so speedily.
But you missed something out.
Just sell the club and FUCK OFF4 -
Think I had him going for a minute @SoundAsa£ElfsborgAddick said:
Chaser and me are solid.SoundAsa£ said:
Think he was having a laugh RC, at least I hope so.RedChaser said:
If that's what expressing one's appreciation to someone who gives up their free time to serve on committees for the benefit of others is, then so be itElfsborgAddick said: .
You may be going to get a whoosh! . 1 -
I do not understand why there is so much fuss being made about the club providing a free breakfast. How many people on this forum who are working get a breakfast provided by their employer at no cost ? As for Airman Brown suggesting that this "part of the discipline of being in at a certain time in the morning" what a joke, this is part of growing up, being responsible and earning a living ffs. In most, if not all, other industries if you cannot arrive on time on a regular basis there is a disciplinary process that ensures you either conform, leave or end up being dismissed, why should it be any different for footballers albeit young players who if they progress will have the potential to achieve a lifestyle the rest of us can only dream of.0
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I think the fuss is the fact that the breakfast being taken away.sarge1g said:I do not understand why there is so much fuss being made about the club providing a free breakfast. How many people on this forum who are working get a breakfast provided by their employer at no cost ? As for Airman Brown suggesting that this "part of the discipline of being in at a certain time in the morning" what a joke, this is part of growing up, being responsible and earning a living ffs. In most, if not all, other industries if you cannot arrive on time on a regular basis there is a disciplinary process that ensures you either conform, leave or end up being dismissed, why should it be any different for footballers albeit young players who if they progress will have the potential to achieve a lifestyle the rest of us can only dream of.
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I think the point is that these young players are the club's future.sarge1g said:I do not understand why there is so much fuss being made about the club providing a free breakfast. How many people on this forum who are working get a breakfast provided by their employer at no cost ? As for Airman Brown suggesting that this "part of the discipline of being in at a certain time in the morning" what a joke, this is part of growing up, being responsible and earning a living ffs. In most, if not all, other industries if you cannot arrive on time on a regular basis there is a disciplinary process that ensures you either conform, leave or end up being dismissed, why should it be any different for footballers albeit young players who if they progress will have the potential to achieve a lifestyle the rest of us can only dream of.
In the past the club has managed to cover the cost of cornflakes and toast so what has changed? Are we not still owned by a billionaire?
We want these kids to have a healthy diet as part of their development.
We also want to attract and retain the best kids we can and this petty, penny wise, pound foolish move goes against this.
And this is just one of many similar mind numbingly petty cuts being made.16 -
WE could celebrate the 11% cut in energy bills.
Woohoo.
Sorry to breaks this news guys, but next season a portion of 14 chips becomes 13.
Every little helps says Eddie Stobart.0 - Sponsored links:
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Surely these "kids" have to learn that they have to take responsibility for what they eat etc and I cannot believe that we will attract any better kids due to the fact that we provide a free breakfast. It does not matter who we are owned by and how much they are worth, in my view this will go towards turning these young kids into more responsible adults as they should be encouraged by the club to look after their bodies as it is this that will help them achieve their goals. There are many practices at CAFC that need to change, for years there have been too many "hangers on" who do not bring any value to the club and I am sure that any new owners will take a serious look at all sorts of unnecessary expenses being incurred, it is after all a professional football club, at least by name.0
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Some examples please?sarge1g said:Surely these "kids" have to learn that they have to take responsibility for what they eat etc and I cannot believe that we will attract any better kids due to the fact that we provide a free breakfast. It does not matter who we are owned by and how much they are worth, in my view this will go towards turning these young kids into more responsible adults as they should be encouraged by the club to look after their bodies as it is this that will help them achieve their goals. There are many practices at CAFC that need to change, for years there have been too many "hangers on" who do not bring any value to the club and I am sure that any new owners will take a serious look at all sorts of unnecessary expenses being incurred, it is after all a professional football club, at least by name.
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May not attract any new players but might we'll lose us some existing and potential kids in a very competitive market.sarge1g said:Surely these "kids" have to learn that they have to take responsibility for what they eat etc and I cannot believe that we will attract any better kids due to the fact that we provide a free breakfast. It does not matter who we are owned by and how much they are worth, in my view this will go towards turning these young kids into more responsible adults as they should be encouraged by the club to look after their bodies as it is this that will help them achieve their goals. There are many practices at CAFC that need to change, for years there have been too many "hangers on" who do not bring any value to the club and I am sure that any new owners will take a serious look at all sorts of unnecessary expenses being incurred, it is after all a professional football club, at least by name.
Not sure who these "hangers on" are? Non-playing staff have been cut to the bone over the last few years and there was little or no fat before.
It's one of a number petty and counter-productive cut made to save pennies and nothing to do with teaching the kids any life lessons.3 -
I wonder if vol au vents will be replaced by a good old cheese sandwich at half time for the visiting club dignitaries and those entertaining them. 'There could be trouble ahead...……Let's face the music and dance'
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Second this ...Henry Irving said:
May not attract any new players but might we'll lose us some existing and potential kids in a very competitive market.sarge1g said:Surely these "kids" have to learn that they have to take responsibility for what they eat etc and I cannot believe that we will attract any better kids due to the fact that we provide a free breakfast. It does not matter who we are owned by and how much they are worth, in my view this will go towards turning these young kids into more responsible adults as they should be encouraged by the club to look after their bodies as it is this that will help them achieve their goals. There are many practices at CAFC that need to change, for years there have been too many "hangers on" who do not bring any value to the club and I am sure that any new owners will take a serious look at all sorts of unnecessary expenses being incurred, it is after all a professional football club, at least by name.
Not sure who these "hangers on" are? Non-playing staff have been cut to the bone over the last few years and there was little or no fat before.
It's one of a number petty and counter-productive cut made to save pennies and nothing to do with teaching the kids any life lessons.
If players are either looking at saying/joining the CAFC academy , are they going to really go/stay at a team who can’t even provide them with breakfast/meal over a team that can potentially provide travel/nutritionally dedicated chefs & meals etc
May be small, but how can you expect players to enjoy/aspire to be at the academy if they’re essentially playing on what is a barely built construction site where they just have to turn up train and then go home6 -
Yep. Can imagine a number of youth kids know each other from other teams or walks of life. Imagine a kid speaking to his mate about coming to Charlton. Could now easy say "Don't bother coming here, they don't feed you, they don't do this, or this,......... you're better off somewhere else."Henry Irving said:
May not attract any new players but might we'll lose us some existing and potential kids in a very competitive market.sarge1g said:Surely these "kids" have to learn that they have to take responsibility for what they eat etc and I cannot believe that we will attract any better kids due to the fact that we provide a free breakfast. It does not matter who we are owned by and how much they are worth, in my view this will go towards turning these young kids into more responsible adults as they should be encouraged by the club to look after their bodies as it is this that will help them achieve their goals. There are many practices at CAFC that need to change, for years there have been too many "hangers on" who do not bring any value to the club and I am sure that any new owners will take a serious look at all sorts of unnecessary expenses being incurred, it is after all a professional football club, at least by name.
Not sure who these "hangers on" are? Non-playing staff have been cut to the bone over the last few years and there was little or no fat before.
It's one of a number petty and counter-productive cut made to save pennies and nothing to do with teaching the kids any life lessons.
Football isn't a normal job. It's effectively constant head hunting and putting out an image to attract the best you can.5 -
And they’ll be colder because they’re using a lower setting on the microwave now...but actually they’ll be the same cos they’re turning the freezer off every other day too....seth plum said:WE could celebrate the 11% cut in energy bills.
Woohoo.
Sorry to breaks this news guys, but next season a portion of 14 chips becomes 13.
Every little helps says Eddie Stobart.0 -
Before slagging off why, maybe consider why not?sarge1g said:Surely these "kids" have to learn that they have to take responsibility for what they eat etc and I cannot believe that we will attract any better kids due to the fact that we provide a free breakfast. It does not matter who we are owned by and how much they are worth, in my view this will go towards turning these young kids into more responsible adults as they should be encouraged by the club to look after their bodies as it is this that will help them achieve their goals. There are many practices at CAFC that need to change, for years there have been too many "hangers on" who do not bring any value to the club and I am sure that any new owners will take a serious look at all sorts of unnecessary expenses being incurred, it is after all a professional football club, at least by name.
Why did our club and many others think this was a good idea? Did they want to take the lead in setting the example? Had they accepted that in some homes breakfast was not considered important or was inadequate for a young lad doing a full training session? Did they think that they had a duty of care that they had to ensure that kids had the fuel on board to perform? Did the club think it made our club stand out as a professional outfit as opposed to a tin pot club that could not afford a boiled egg?7 -
100%RedChaser said:I wonder if vol au vents will be replaced by a good old cheese sandwich at half time for the visiting club dignitaries and those entertaining them. 'There could be trouble ahead...……Let's face the music and dance'
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Is it also true that the Charlton lads get dropped off at their schools by mini bus?
Its just that this bloke I know, I say know, but I just chat to him in the cafe, he's a West Ham fan. Anyway he told me that his wife, I say wife, but she may be just be his partner, or even some bird he knows, is a teacher. She works at a very large local comprehensive school and she reckons that the Charlton lads are really molly coddled by the club and it might not be doing 'em any good. In the long run they might be better off getting their own grub and sorting out their own transport, mind you it probably helps them to adapt to life at Man City once the tribunal decides.1
