That’s interesting and good but surprising. Anyone know if that is the norm in the industry? Can’t see many companies being happy with that from m a cash flow perspective.
Still maintain it helps him/the club more than buying on the day as it enables them to budget more accurately for the season.
@The Organiser cafcfan gave this thorough explanation of the situation as he saw it on 16 July;
A season ticket entitles you to attend 23 sporting fixtures from August 2018 through to May 2019. That's close to a 10 month period. You, as, say, a Barclaycard Visa debit card holder have used the card to pre-pay for 23 football games.
Barclays, under the Visa Europe terms of business are required to offer a chargeback scheme. Barclays' t&cs say: ...you send a request to us within 120 days of discovering the problem, or 540 days from the transaction date – whichever comes first. We may not be able to help you get your money back outside of this time period. These timescales may change depending on the nature of your query.
So, let's say Charlton fail to fulfil their fixtures because the club ceases to exist 8 games into the season. (Because the Aussies finally pull out and Roland dies and the beneficiaries of his estate no longer wish to fund a football club, but fancy the idea of building houses on the land assets, for example.)
You would not have received 15/23rds of the services you had pre-paid for. Under the t&cs of your contract with Barclays you would claim this money back from them. And they would refund you on a pro rata basis. In turn Barclays would claim it back from the aforementioned "acquirer". They would consequently be out of pocket because they could not claim it back from the merchant.
They clearly believe Charlton are at risk of failure and are treating such monies as "anticipated liabilities". (Liabilities don't always come to fruition of course.) On that basis it makes perfect sense for them to only release monies on a match-by-match basis until such time as the future of the club is more clearly defined. You'll note that under the terms of the contract I used as an example that they have absolute discretion in this decision-making process. (Other firms may have different terms, of course).
According to Airman it is very unusual and is to do with the takeover and the consequent poor risk Charlton are at the moment. There is a long conversation about this somewhere.
A good find. Thanks. But are CAFC's contract terms (T&Cs) "unfair"? I doubt it really. The concept that you "hadn't received the quality of the goods and services that you'd ordered" is unlikely to apply IMO. Apart from anything else, the Club could just turn round and say the matter is out of our hands. For example, "It's not our fault that we've had all these injuries to key players". Where this might apply. I'd have thought, is stuff like the arbitrary closure of stands and moving season ticket holders to a less desirable/cheaper part of the ground.
So, these t&cs are likely to fall foul to the regs, I'd have thought because they are unfair.
13. If a specified seat is unavailable for use due to a club decision or an intervention by the licensing authority or governing body, the club will make every reasonable effort to relocate the supporter. 14. The club accepts no liability whatsoever if the seat to which this season ticket refers is affected by adverse weather conditions or if the view therefrom is affected by pillars or other structural apparatus, and the acceptance of this season ticket implies full recognition of this condition by the holder.
And this is just a joke (as you'd expect from a joke club). That's because the club are relying on a piece of legislation that's been removed from the statute books. (If only they had a lawyer to check this sort of stuff.)
21. Purchases made on or after April 12th 2018 shall have no right to cancel their season ticket after that date. The club relies upon the exception under Reg. 6 (2) (b) of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, under which there is no cooling off period following an applicant’s acceptance.
A farce. As you'd expect. @castrust should be querying this crap with the club.
Sorry it's me again. I thought it might be interesting to compare and contrast with another club, not a million miles away.
So look at clause 21 above and now:
4.12 A Season Ticket is not refundable or cancellable by you during the course of the Season, either as a whole or on an individual game basis. The Club, in its absolute discretion, will consider on a case by case basis any requests for a refund on compassionate or exceptional grounds. To request a refund please write to Head of Ticketing, Crystal Palace Box Office, Selhurst Park, London SE25 6PU.
You'll note the highlighted bit and the conclusion that you make from that - which is that a ST is refundable before the season starts. I suspect this is much more likely to comply with the law than our botched effort.
Renewed Henry JR and mine last week, starting to wish i hadn't effing bothered.
I'm just so glad I'm still boycotting. Match days just pass me by now with barely a care in the world. No misery, pain, depression, crap car journeys into South London and ruined weekends. I don't understand how you guys that still have tickets have the stamina for all the grief.
Sorry it's me again. I thought it might be interesting to compare and contrast with another club, not a million miles away.
So look at clause 21 above and now:
4.12 A Season Ticket is not refundable or cancellable by you during the course of the Season, either as a whole or on an individual game basis. The Club, in its absolute discretion, will consider on a case by case basis any requests for a refund on compassionate or exceptional grounds. To request a refund please write to Head of Ticketing, Crystal Palace Box Office, Selhurst Park, London SE25 6PU.
You'll note the highlighted bit and the conclusion that you make from that - which is that a ST is refundable before the season starts. I suspect this is much more likely to comply with the law than our botched effort.
Mate of mine bought a season ticket (about 6 years ago) at the end of the previous season (as most of us used to then!), and then in the summer his wife got a job in Singapore. He had to beg the club for a refund of his season ticket but the club did reluctantly give it to him...exceptional circumstances I guess.
A good find. Thanks. But are CAFC's contract terms (T&Cs) "unfair"? I doubt it really. The concept that you "hadn't received the quality of the goods and services that you'd ordered" is unlikely to apply IMO. Apart from anything else, the Club could just turn round and say the matter is out of our hands. For example, "It's not our fault that we've had all these injuries to key players". Where this might apply. I'd have thought, is stuff like the arbitrary closure of stands and moving season ticket holders to a less desirable/cheaper part of the ground.
So, these t&cs are likely to fall foul to the regs, I'd have thought because they are unfair.
13. If a specified seat is unavailable for use due to a club decision or an intervention by the licensing authority or governing body, the club will make every reasonable effort to relocate the supporter. 14. The club accepts no liability whatsoever if the seat to which this season ticket refers is affected by adverse weather conditions or if the view therefrom is affected by pillars or other structural apparatus, and the acceptance of this season ticket implies full recognition of this condition by the holder.
And this is just a joke (as you'd expect from a joke club). That's because the club are relying on a piece of legislation that's been removed from the statute books. (If only they had a lawyer to check this sort of stuff.)
21. Purchases made on or after April 12th 2018 shall have no right to cancel their season ticket after that date. The club relies upon the exception under Reg. 6 (2) (b) of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, under which there is no cooling off period following an applicant’s acceptance.
A farce. As you'd expect. CAST should be querying this crap with the club.
Good luck with that, CAFC, as they haven't been in effect since 2014.
In fact, event tickets were always exempt (and remain so under the successor legislation) as was pointed out when we used this line originally. It was inserted to prevent people buying at an offer price speculatively, i.e. pay the Championship price and get Premier League football if we go up, and then cancelling when we didn't.
Historically, season tickets were always refundable before the first match of the season and this was included in the Ts & Cs. The scenarios where refunds were sought were usually personal and the club invariably refunded in my experience.
It does seem absolute madness to send out the tickets so late. Club seem to get more incompetent by the day and desperate to p*** off the remaining fan base.
I suspect the reason the ST are going out so late is there aren't enough people still employed in the ticket office to send them out.
I know that is certainly true but why not stagger the posting over a few months. If someone bought in May could not all the May STs bought be sent out in one batch at the end of that month?
Maybe there are economies of scale in printing them all at once I'm not aware off or other issues with the printing of the cards which must be more complicated that issuing a paper ticket.
I suspect the reason the ST are going out so late is there aren't enough people still employed in the ticket office to send them out.
I suspect that there is no-one (until the part time Belgian whose name escapes me turns up) and authorises the expenditure for postage. As Sainsburys say "every little helps"
I suspect the reason the ST are going out so late is there aren't enough people still employed in the ticket office to send them out.
I know that is certainly true but why not stagger the posting over a few months. If someone bought in May could not all the May STs bought be sent out in one batch at the end of that month?
Maybe there are economies of scale in printing them all at once I'm not aware off or other issues with the printing of the cards which must be more complicated that issuing a paper ticket.
There you go with your common sense again.....
Are you aware which club we’re talking about here?
Hallejuhah,10.15,just been delivered,did not expect any free gifts like last year,but welcoming letter so small,requires magnifying glass to read,roll on saturday.
Renewed Henry JR and mine last week, starting to wish i hadn't effing bothered.
Can only wonder why on earth you did.
Because he supports Charlton and wants the bond shared with his son?
Fair point.
I used to go to Charlton with my son. We're both staying away at the moment (apart from the odd game) because we both believe this is the best way to ensure we have a Charlton in future that we can hopefully take the next generation of our family to.
Renewed Henry JR and mine last week, starting to wish i hadn't effing bothered.
Can only wonder why on earth you did.
Because he supports Charlton and wants the bond shared with his son?
Fair point.
I used to go to Charlton with my son. We're both staying away at the moment (apart from the odd game) because we both believe this is the best way to ensure we have a Charlton in future that we can hopefully take the next generation of our family to.
The trouble is when Charlton are your "religion", it's almost impossible not to attend/support them.
I've missed about 6 home games since 1972, and that includes all home games, including the Checkatrade type nonsense. I also go to at least 50% of the aways and have done since 1980.
I don't go because "I fancy going today". I go because it's what I do, through thick and thin and thinner. It's a part of me that I can't give up and I want my ashes scattered at The Valley some day.
There isn't a definable logic as to why I can't miss a home game. There is no definable logic as to why I drag my arse out of bed at 6am on a Saturday morning, in the middle of winter when it's dark and freezing cold, to go to Hartlepool and the like.
I could no more not support and attend Charlton indefinitely, than I could, if someone recommended that it was for the best if I didn't see my family again indefinitely.
One game I could consider, but not for a year, 2 years, 3 years, 4 years .............. Forever ?
I've been to all the protests. I've protested in Belgium. I've argued with Meire, Keohane and Parkes. I told Mel Baroni, how it really is a few days before she resigned.
As most people have said, we all have to do what we have to do. My greatest bond with my grown up boys/men is through Charlton and it always will be. I'm not going to let that absolute **** from Belgium ruin my family as well as my club.
All the best to all Charlton fans. As someone said, we need to stick together.
Hallejuhah,10.15,just been delivered,did not expect any free gifts like last year,but welcoming letter so small,requires magnifying glass to read,roll on saturday.
“Dear sucker,
Thanks for the dosh.
Lots of love,
Roland”
Hopefully my season tickets will be there when I get home from work tonight
Comments
Still maintain it helps him/the club more than buying on the day as it enables them to budget more accurately for the season.
A season ticket entitles you to attend 23 sporting fixtures from August 2018 through to May 2019. That's close to a 10 month period. You, as, say, a Barclaycard Visa debit card holder have used the card to pre-pay for 23 football games.
Barclays, under the Visa Europe terms of business are required to offer a chargeback scheme. Barclays' t&cs say: ...you send a request to us within 120 days of discovering the problem, or 540 days from the transaction date – whichever comes first. We may not be able to help you get your money back outside of this time period. These timescales may change depending on the nature of your query.
So, let's say Charlton fail to fulfil their fixtures because the club ceases to exist 8 games into the season. (Because the Aussies finally pull out and Roland dies and the beneficiaries of his estate no longer wish to fund a football club, but fancy the idea of building houses on the land assets, for example.)
You would not have received 15/23rds of the services you had pre-paid for. Under the t&cs of your contract with Barclays you would claim this money back from them. And they would refund you on a pro rata basis. In turn Barclays would claim it back from the aforementioned "acquirer". They would consequently be out of pocket because they could not claim it back from the merchant.
They clearly believe Charlton are at risk of failure and are treating such monies as "anticipated liabilities". (Liabilities don't always come to fruition of course.) On that basis it makes perfect sense for them to only release monies on a match-by-match basis until such time as the future of the club is more clearly defined. You'll note that under the terms of the contract I used as an example that they have absolute discretion in this decision-making process. (Other firms may have different terms, of course).
So, these t&cs are likely to fall foul to the regs, I'd have thought because they are unfair.
13. If a specified seat is unavailable for use due to a club decision or an intervention by the
licensing authority or governing body, the club will make every reasonable effort to relocate
the supporter.
14. The club accepts no liability whatsoever if the seat to which this season ticket refers is
affected by adverse weather conditions or if the view therefrom is affected by pillars or other
structural apparatus, and the acceptance of this season ticket implies full recognition of this
condition by the holder.
And this is just a joke (as you'd expect from a joke club). That's because the club are relying on a piece of legislation that's been removed from the statute books. (If only they had a lawyer to check this sort of stuff.)
21. Purchases made on or after April 12th 2018 shall have no right to cancel their season
ticket after that date. The club relies upon the exception under Reg. 6 (2) (b) of the
Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, under which there is no cooling
off period following an applicant’s acceptance.
A farce. As you'd expect. @castrust should be querying this crap with the club.
So look at clause 21 above and now:
4.12 A Season Ticket is not refundable or cancellable by you during the course of the Season, either
as a whole or on an individual game basis. The Club, in its absolute discretion, will consider on a
case by case basis any requests for a refund on compassionate or exceptional grounds. To request a
refund please write to Head of Ticketing, Crystal Palace Box Office, Selhurst Park, London SE25
6PU.
You'll note the highlighted bit and the conclusion that you make from that - which is that a ST is refundable before the season starts. I suspect this is much more likely to comply with the law than our botched effort.
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations
In fact, event tickets were always exempt (and remain so under the successor legislation) as was pointed out when we used this line originally. It was inserted to prevent people buying at an offer price speculatively, i.e. pay the Championship price and get Premier League football if we go up, and then cancelling when we didn't.
Historically, season tickets were always refundable before the first match of the season and this was included in the Ts & Cs. The scenarios where refunds were sought were usually personal and the club invariably refunded in my experience.
Maybe there are economies of scale in printing them all at once I'm not aware off or other issues with the printing of the cards which must be more complicated that issuing a paper ticket.
As Sainsburys say "every little helps"
Are you aware which club we’re talking about here?
I used to go to Charlton with my son. We're both staying away at the moment (apart from the odd game) because we both believe this is the best way to ensure we have a Charlton in future that we can hopefully take the next generation of our family to.
I've missed about 6 home games since 1972, and that includes all home games, including the Checkatrade type nonsense. I also go to at least 50% of the aways and have done since 1980.
I don't go because "I fancy going today".
I go because it's what I do, through thick and thin and thinner.
It's a part of me that I can't give up and I want my ashes scattered at The Valley some day.
There isn't a definable logic as to why I can't miss a home game.
There is no definable logic as to why I drag my arse out of bed at 6am on a Saturday morning, in the middle of winter when it's dark and freezing cold, to go to Hartlepool and the like.
I could no more not support and attend Charlton indefinitely, than I could, if someone recommended that it was for the best if I didn't see my family again indefinitely.
One game I could consider, but not for a year, 2 years, 3 years, 4 years .............. Forever ?
I've been to all the protests. I've protested in Belgium.
I've argued with Meire, Keohane and Parkes.
I told Mel Baroni, how it really is a few days before she resigned.
As most people have said, we all have to do what we have to do.
My greatest bond with my grown up boys/men is through Charlton and it always will be.
I'm not going to let that absolute **** from Belgium ruin my family as well as my club.
All the best to all Charlton fans.
As someone said, we need to stick together.
Thanks for the dosh.
Lots of love,
Roland”
Hopefully my season tickets will be there when I get home from work tonight
Didnt want the naff scarf and whatever crap we got last year so happy.