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Euell linked with England coaching role
clive
Posts: 19,456
Exclusive story in todays Sun.
GARETH SOUTHGATE will appoint a new coach this season in the FA’s push for diversity.
The England boss is in the final stages of drawing up a shortlist of ethnic minority candidates, with Jason Euell, Michael Gilkes and Sol Campbell in the frame.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/7291197/gareth-southgate-poised-to-name-new-coach-from-shortlist-of-ethnic-minority-candidates-as-fa-look-to-boost-diversity/
GARETH SOUTHGATE will appoint a new coach this season in the FA’s push for diversity.
The England boss is in the final stages of drawing up a shortlist of ethnic minority candidates, with Jason Euell, Michael Gilkes and Sol Campbell in the frame.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/7291197/gareth-southgate-poised-to-name-new-coach-from-shortlist-of-ethnic-minority-candidates-as-fa-look-to-boost-diversity/
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Comments
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Sol Campbell!!14
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I'm looking forward to Sol Campbell's excuse for not getting that job. He'll have to come out the closet.13
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Great idea. Having more black coaches/managers at every level of the game has to be a good thing.2
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Hope Jase gets it and also stays on with us!5
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Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.49
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I'm certain Jason is good enough to get this job on merit anyway.Stu_of_Kunming said:Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.
It would be much better if diversity in coaching/management happened organically, but at this stage there does seem to be a need to give a bit of a 'leg up'.14 -
Yes, so long as the coaches are of the same standard, or better, as the rest. It is pointless appointing someone a specific role in any walk of life, let alone in football, just because they’re from a ethnic minority.SantaClaus said:Great idea. Having more black coaches/managers at every level of the game has to be a good thing.
What needs to happen is more opportunities and support of learning and development throughout all ethnicities and that will encourage participation which in turn will increase the amount of ethnic minorities being employed, because there would be enough of them at a high enough standard.
That is not to say that there aren’t already, I think Euell and Powell for example, Chris Hughton too, have proved they’re more than capable, but the percentage is so few that it can’t just be increased by employing diverse people, it has to start below, just like grassroots.4 -
Then it is disrespectful for the FA to insist on a list of minority candidates, it suggests they are not good enough, but tick a diversity box.Oh_Yoni_Boy said:
I'm certain Jason is good enough to get this job on merit anyway.Stu_of_Kunming said:Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.
It would be much better if diversity in coaching/management happened organically, but at this stage there does seem to be a need to give a bit of a 'leg up'.
However, I imagine if Euell really was good enough, he might be working a little higher than league one, maybe he just really loves Charlton.2 -
This.Stu_of_Kunming said:Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.
This kind of 'ethnic minority only' rule is exactly how under qualified, insufferable wankers like Sol Campbell will get a job.
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I often wondered why Euell and Avory have stayed with us during the Duchatelet years. Maybe there is a love for the club there. One thing is for sure I am so glad they did stay and have brought many good players through. Bright shining lights in the dark days of DuShat.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Then it is disrespectful for the FA to insist on a list of minority candidates, it suggests they are not good enough, but tick a diversity box.Oh_Yoni_Boy said:
I'm certain Jason is good enough to get this job on merit anyway.Stu_of_Kunming said:Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.
It would be much better if diversity in coaching/management happened organically, but at this stage there does seem to be a need to give a bit of a 'leg up'.
However, I imagine if Euell really was good enough, he might be working a little higher than league one, maybe he just really loves Charlton.9 - Sponsored links:
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The FA want to encompass a more diverse coaching set up for the national team - and quite rightly so.
The squad are a diverse bunch and those that manage, coach and administer the National Team should also be.
Whether one coach is better than another can be a very subjective judgement. As long as they are qualified for the role, have significant experience and as long as they have a British Passport I really don't care what their colour, ethnic origin or religion is.
It's not a matter of 'insisting', it just makes plain common sense.
Though Sol Campbell can jog on.5 -
Read up on the Rooney Rule.Stu_of_Kunming said:Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.
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I usually agree with you Stu but football is pretty unique with regards to the overrepresentation of black players and a massive underrepresentation of black coaches (and even more so managers). There's clearly a huge pool of talent/experience that isn't getting utilised so if quotas are necessary to address the anomaly I don't have a problem supporting them.Stu_of_Kunming said:Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.
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Good luck Jason, it would be great experience for you, if you get the job, and you deserve it, after working through the Roland years0
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Jason just loves FOOTBALL!Stu_of_Kunming said:
Then it is disrespectful for the FA to insist on a list of minority candidates, it suggests they are not good enough, but tick a diversity box.Oh_Yoni_Boy said:
I'm certain Jason is good enough to get this job on merit anyway.Stu_of_Kunming said:Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.
It would be much better if diversity in coaching/management happened organically, but at this stage there does seem to be a need to give a bit of a 'leg up'.
However, I imagine if Euell really was good enough, he might be working a little higher than league one, maybe he just really loves Charlton.
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Jason should be at the top of any list with the excellent job he is doing with our youth set up. Would hate it if it meant we lost him though, but I assume the job would be part time.
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Ah man, the meritocracy; box-ticking; "do it if they're good enough" arguments coming back out again. I've tried to articulate time and again as to why sometimes diversity needs to be artificially encouraged. I'll list a few thoughts below:
- Various BAME footballing figures have said they've experienced a form of discrimination in football when it comes to coaching roles. It's imperative that we listen to their experiences, otherwise it's eminently possible that their voices are marginalised even further than we've seen historically.
- As has been mentioned, why are there so few black coaches relative to black footballers? We're now I'd say at least 15-20 years on from when a lot of coaches/managers would have been playing, and yet it's still overwhelmingly white former players who are now in coaching roles. We have to examine the reasons for this (one of which is potentially discrimination as various BAME figures have alluded to).
- I don't think there's intentional racism on an institutional level. I do think, however, that structures in football are still predominantly "white". (Even if you think about, say, the community courses that Charlton run, there certainly weren't many black kids on those courses when I was young [early 2000s] and I don't know how much that's changed now.)
- The above point, of course, can also be linked into more sociological reasons and how in particular the black British community (along with British Pakistanis and Bangladeshis) is still far more likely to suffer from poverty/child poverty; unemployment; and similar. Again, there's a wide range of social issues to consider here and I appreciate this is starting to widen the scope of the discussion of positive discrimination a bit too broadly.
In summary, I think positive discrimination and actively attempting to recruit BAME coaches/staff can only be a good thing until such time as social problems facing the BAME community can be rectified from the ground up, rather than sort of artificially ensuring their presence at the top end of society. Hope that makes sense.19 -
Why does it make any difference these days? People are over the top, the colour of your skin is irrelevant, same goes for gender/ what sexuality you are.SantaClaus said:Great idea. Having more black coaches/managers at every level of the game has to be a good thing.
laughable people are even thinking of Sol Campbell when he hasn't done anything, needs to find a non league side and work up the leagues imo.2 -
For a youth coach to be successful they need to be getting players into the first team squad. Which means they might have a different perspective on Roland's first team mismanagement.GreenWithEnvy said:
I often wondered why Euell and Avory have stayed with us during the Duchatelet years. Maybe there is a love for the club there. One thing is for sure I am so glad they did stay and have brought many good players through. Bright shining lights in the dark days of DuShat.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Then it is disrespectful for the FA to insist on a list of minority candidates, it suggests they are not good enough, but tick a diversity box.Oh_Yoni_Boy said:
I'm certain Jason is good enough to get this job on merit anyway.Stu_of_Kunming said:Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.
It would be much better if diversity in coaching/management happened organically, but at this stage there does seem to be a need to give a bit of a 'leg up'.
However, I imagine if Euell really was good enough, he might be working a little higher than league one, maybe he just really loves Charlton.0 - Sponsored links:
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How’s that approach working out so far?Stu_of_Kunming said:Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.
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It meant Alan Pardew got the West Brom job ahead of Darren Moore.se9addick said:
How’s that approach working out so far?Stu_of_Kunming said:Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.
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He also got the Charlton job before Chris Powell - maybe Pardew is the problem !Henry Irving said:
It meant Alan Pardew got the West Brom job ahead of Darren Moore.se9addick said:
How’s that approach working out so far?Stu_of_Kunming said:Why can't we just select the best available coaches? It really shouldnt matter where their families are from.
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I'd rather give the role to Dianne Abbot that Sol f***ing Campbell.3
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It SHOULDN'T make any difference, @johnnybev1987 , but if you ask anyone who is not a white heterosexual male for their life experience I bet a very large percentage will be able to give you chapter and verse of discrimination they have personally experienced.johnnybev1987 said:
Why does it make any difference these days? People are over the top, the colour of your skin is irrelevant, same goes for gender/ what sexuality you are.SantaClaus said:Great idea. Having more black coaches/managers at every level of the game has to be a good thing.
laughable people are even thinking of Sol Campbell when he hasn't done anything, needs to find a non league side and work up the leagues imo.
While discrimination and bias still exist, there will remain an argument for all black / all female / etc. shortlists, especially in high profile jobs where the successful candidate will also act as a role model for their group of people. Of course this aim will fall at the first hurdle if they are not competent (KM for example), but surely we are not suggesting that all possible black candidates for an England coaching job would be in that category?3 -
White Hetrosexual Males can also be discriminated against, I have been twice when going for jobs.N01R4M said:
It SHOULDN'T make any difference, @johnnybev1987 , but if you ask anyone who is not a white heterosexual male for their life experience I bet a very large percentage will be able to give you chapter and verse of discrimination they have personally experienced.johnnybev1987 said:
Why does it make any difference these days? People are over the top, the colour of your skin is irrelevant, same goes for gender/ what sexuality you are.SantaClaus said:Great idea. Having more black coaches/managers at every level of the game has to be a good thing.
laughable people are even thinking of Sol Campbell when he hasn't done anything, needs to find a non league side and work up the leagues imo.
While discrimination and bias still exist, there will remain an argument for all black / all female / etc. shortlists, especially in high profile jobs where the successful candidate will also act as a role model for their group of people. Of course this aim will fall at the first hurdle if they are not competent (KM for example), but surely we are not suggesting that all possible black candidates for an England coaching job would be in that category?
When I was 19/20 I went for 2 jobs as a waiter.
The first I was rejected as they only wanted a female.
The 2nd was a chinesse restaurant and I was rejected because I was English and not Chinesse.
Now I am not saying its terrible and I know others have been discriminated far worse. But I am just saying white hetrosexusal males can also be discriminated against6 -
God have i opened up a can of worms here, we get this everytime its boring! Yes i am white hetrosexual man, that does not give me the opinion because i haven't been in their shoes.N01R4M said:
It SHOULDN'T make any difference, @johnnybev1987 , but if you ask anyone who is not a white heterosexual male for their life experience I bet a very large percentage will be able to give you chapter and verse of discrimination they have personally experienced.johnnybev1987 said:
Why does it make any difference these days? People are over the top, the colour of your skin is irrelevant, same goes for gender/ what sexuality you are.SantaClaus said:Great idea. Having more black coaches/managers at every level of the game has to be a good thing.
laughable people are even thinking of Sol Campbell when he hasn't done anything, needs to find a non league side and work up the leagues imo.
While discrimination and bias still exist, there will remain an argument for all black / all female / etc. shortlists, especially in high profile jobs where the successful candidate will also act as a role model for their group of people. Of course this aim will fall at the first hurdle if they are not competent (KM for example), but surely we are not suggesting that all possible black candidates for an England coaching job would be in that category?
I get where it comes from, also am aware it will still go on in places just my intake is people make these sort of statements make it worse.
People highlight there is a problem when there isn't, now i am pretty sure if a black/gay/ whatever coach comes through the ranks i am sure it would not be the issue it used to be and shouldn't hold them back, but yes i am white so i cannot have an input in a race debate go figure...0 -
Point taken1
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There you go, discrimination goes on everywhere. Sometimes people will highlight the issue more with certain races etc.paulie8290 said:
White Hetrosexual Males can also be discriminated against, I have been twice when going for jobs.N01R4M said:
It SHOULDN'T make any difference, @johnnybev1987 , but if you ask anyone who is not a white heterosexual male for their life experience I bet a very large percentage will be able to give you chapter and verse of discrimination they have personally experienced.johnnybev1987 said:
Why does it make any difference these days? People are over the top, the colour of your skin is irrelevant, same goes for gender/ what sexuality you are.SantaClaus said:Great idea. Having more black coaches/managers at every level of the game has to be a good thing.
laughable people are even thinking of Sol Campbell when he hasn't done anything, needs to find a non league side and work up the leagues imo.
While discrimination and bias still exist, there will remain an argument for all black / all female / etc. shortlists, especially in high profile jobs where the successful candidate will also act as a role model for their group of people. Of course this aim will fall at the first hurdle if they are not competent (KM for example), but surely we are not suggesting that all possible black candidates for an England coaching job would be in that category?
When I was 19/20 I went for 2 jobs as a waiter.
The first I was rejected as they only wanted a female.
The 2nd was a chinesse restaurant and I was rejected because I was English and not Chinesse.
Now I am not saying its terrible and I know others have beem discriminated far worse. But I am just saying white hetrosexusl males can also be discriminated against
Problem is even saying the fact i am your typical white bloke doesn't mean i cant have an opinion. I have friends of all walks of lifes, a sister who is chinese yet i cannot have an input?1 -
Has anyone actually said you “can’t have an input”?johnnybev1987 said:
There you go, discrimination goes on everywhere. Sometimes people will highlight the issue more with certain races etc.paulie8290 said:
White Hetrosexual Males can also be discriminated against, I have been twice when going for jobs.N01R4M said:
It SHOULDN'T make any difference, @johnnybev1987 , but if you ask anyone who is not a white heterosexual male for their life experience I bet a very large percentage will be able to give you chapter and verse of discrimination they have personally experienced.johnnybev1987 said:
Why does it make any difference these days? People are over the top, the colour of your skin is irrelevant, same goes for gender/ what sexuality you are.SantaClaus said:Great idea. Having more black coaches/managers at every level of the game has to be a good thing.
laughable people are even thinking of Sol Campbell when he hasn't done anything, needs to find a non league side and work up the leagues imo.
While discrimination and bias still exist, there will remain an argument for all black / all female / etc. shortlists, especially in high profile jobs where the successful candidate will also act as a role model for their group of people. Of course this aim will fall at the first hurdle if they are not competent (KM for example), but surely we are not suggesting that all possible black candidates for an England coaching job would be in that category?
When I was 19/20 I went for 2 jobs as a waiter.
The first I was rejected as they only wanted a female.
The 2nd was a chinesse restaurant and I was rejected because I was English and not Chinesse.
Now I am not saying its terrible and I know others have beem discriminated far worse. But I am just saying white hetrosexusl males can also be discriminated against
Problem is even saying the fact i am your typical white bloke doesn't mean i cant have an opinion. I have friends of all walks of lifes, a sister who is chinese yet i cannot have an input?2
