I’m writing from memory – doubtless someone will correct me on details if necessary.
CAFC’s financial year runs July-June, so the Companies House financial report released approx. end of March 2018 referred to the season 2016-17. In that report, not only was an increase in the value of the real estate recorded, as a result of a revaluing exercise, but also a hefty income from player sales. Overall, I think the club was in the black for the year.
I further recall someone (in a post on this forum) pointing out someone (?KM) had recorded within the report an opinion that this state of being in credit was UNLIKELY to be repeated the following year (ie 2017-18) because they were not anticipating a similar income from player sales, 2016-17 having been exceptional in this respect. (If it was KM, this was presumably written before she left the club in Dec 2017, fully 6 months before the bonuses were due to be paid.)
Now, if my memory on this last point is correct, it shows management was very well aware that the club would be making a loss in 2017-18. It would therefore be totally disingenuous to continue to promise incentivised bonuses to staff based on a premise that the club would at least more or less break even in 2017-18, since management KNEW this to be highly unlikely. Probably not fraudulent in a strictly legal sense, but in the moral sense..?
I wonder what Richard Murray thinks of this latest shambles. If he had the guts, he should be attempting to mediate between the staff and Duchatelet. The silence from him is deafening.
After the club confirmed on August 22nd that no bonuses will be granted for last season but contractual bonuses would be paid, the owner received an unsigned letter from “the administrative staff at The Valley” – there was no mention of the employees at the training ground. This letter was received at 4.35pm and was Tweeted out by CARD at 5.53pm.
If this timeline is right, ie that the letter was received by Roland at 16:35 and then tweeted by CARD at 17:53, the obvious inference is that it was Roland who leaked it to CARD.
If CARD had received it prior to it being sent to Roland, it clearly could not have been Roland who leaked it. But, as it wasn't dealt with by CARD until after Roland took delivery, it seems that it must have been him who leaked it, enabling CARD to disseminate it further.
Furthermore, if Roland is right in suggesting it is CARD who are - directly or indirectly - responsible for the sale of the club being delayed, then such a leak would point to his complicity. He'd be directly responsible for the delay about which he is complaining. And, at the same time, working both to sell the club and to prevent its sale.
Not only that, he's publishing comments that enable one to infer his complicity is both deliberate and brazen. He's actually telling people that the only reason he's failed to sell the club is that he's got someone with an equally huge intellect working diametrically opposite him, ie himself.
I can only draw the conclusion that this saga has but a few more, short chapters to go. One where he sues himself. One where he counter-sues. One where he refuses to acknowledge receipt of emails he's been sending himself. One where he shouts at himself, "ah-ha! how did you know I sent it, smartypants?" One where he shouts back, "because whenever I send myself an email, I also BCC it, so it comes as a nice surprise when I hear a "ping" and see I have another email". And one where he disappears up his own fundament.
Keep up the heat on this fella until he sells, he’s off his head and needs to go, I fear what will happen in the January transfer window if he’s still in charge, he doesn’t care about results we all know that, he’s admitted he wants out of football, just do it please Roland.
I've no idea what was originally said/written between staff/owner/management etc in respect of the terms of the bonus but find it hard to believe that what in many cases will be junior/low paid staff would go to all this trouble if they didn't believe they were entitled to said 'discretionary' bonus.
As for it effecting his ability to sell the club, really............ so said buyers are worried about the potential bonus due of what, £50-75k, lets be kind and say it's £150k, but they are not worried about the zillions the crazy man wants for the club, the fact he's run it into the ground, the fact there's next to no-one left to sell, half the fans no longer come..... blah de blah de blah.
The staff need to make their legal move, it's clear he's not going to back down on his own accord. Number one priority he says is to sell the club....... not paying the bonuses is effecting his ability to sell (apparently)...... work it out Roland, it's not hard.
You could have paid them the money and not had any of this and been able to sell by now, I did try to tell De Turck
He's an arsehole of the highest order, he's also lost the fucking plot
As much as I smelt Katrien was bad news from the start, she was hung out to dry as is everyone else who works for this dung beetle. They have no autonomy as it's always the shithead above working them like glove puppets
That doesn't excuse them hanging about, I've worked for people like shitface in the past and have had the courage of conviction to move jobs and in the last case, take a wage drop for my own sanity
This is an agitation for me as well. I appreciate English isn’t his first language but on a professional level the fact that he’s not bothered to translate what he wants to say properly just speaks volumes about how much he actually cares or ever has cared for his involvement with us. It’s disrespectful. I know he wants out, but I would never buy a Belgian football club and look for the literal translation for ‘ain’t’ or ‘geezer’ should I want to address them in my saaaarf London tones
Do it properly or don’t do it at all.
All this shows is we really are and always have been an afterthought and experiment
What seems blindingly obvious is that the staff didn't think the bonus was discretionary. Which is understandable if it was linked to personal targets rather than how many young players we are able to sell. Could it be that there was a complete breakdown of communications between the owner and those setting the targets. At our club - is that possible?
I’m sure some of the Academy staff used to be on some type of bonus for our academy produced players who got sold and uncle Roland took away this bonus after he arrived , probably to improve moral . Pretty clear what his game is .
I’m sure some of the Academy staff used to be on some type of bonus for our academy produced players who got sold and uncle Roland took away this bonus after he arrived , probably to improve moral . Pretty clear what his game is .
That’s my understanding too. I think I may have been about them getting players into the first team though.
“This was mainly because of the ongoing sale of the club which caused our CEO to leave resulting in delayed player sales and delay in actions being taken to make the club more cost efficient”-lol
Yep point taken, everything was going rosy before she left....
When the person running the club resigns, you're meant to replace them you absolute effing bell.
To be fair, in this specific case, not replacing her is probably still an improvement.
I'm no fan of the regime, but they do have a point about CARD demanding accuracy from them - but not being aware that the disputed bonus was "discretionary", and therefore not guaranteed.
On the final point about "breakfasts and water" - there is no comment from them about food, and the inference is that the players are drinking (cheaper) tap water as opposed to bottled mineral water. Is this correct ?
As for investing £2.2m per year............well,.... Gomez will have seen you all square for a few years then !
I don't think that's been proven at all. The club claiming that the bonuses were discretionary does not mean that is the case.
@Davo55 Then it is quite simple to solve. Which party has written confirmation of the type of bonus offerred ? If nothing is in writing, then either side can describe the bonus as it suits them. RD will claim that the admin staff are just making trouble. If CARD has evidence to support the staff claim, then (IMO) it should be made public to embarass RD.
I'm no fan of the regime, but they do have a point about CARD demanding accuracy from them - but not being aware that the disputed bonus was "discretionary", and therefore not guaranteed.
On the final point about "breakfasts and water" - there is no comment from them about food, and the inference is that the players are drinking (cheaper) tap water as opposed to bottled mineral water. Is this correct ?
As for investing £2.2m per year............well,.... Gomez will have seen you all square for a few years then !
I don't think that's been proven at all. The club claiming that the bonuses were discretionary does not mean that is the case.
@Davo55 Then it is quite simple to solve. Which party has written confirmation of the type of bonus offerred ? If nothing is in writing, then either side can describe the bonus as it suits them. RD will claim that the admin staff are just making trouble. If CARD has evidence to support the staff claim, then (IMO) it should be made public to embarass RD.
The staff have documentation. They are acting on their own behalf not via CARD and it’s not unreasonable they proceed in the way they choose, rather than seeing it simply as an opportunity to embarrass RD.
So if I offer someone a bonus based on them achieving a target and they achieve that target and I say I've changed my mind because I'm a bit skint this week. Is that breech of contract or just a complete lack of morals?
I'm no fan of the regime, but they do have a point about CARD demanding accuracy from them - but not being aware that the disputed bonus was "discretionary", and therefore not guaranteed.
On the final point about "breakfasts and water" - there is no comment from them about food, and the inference is that the players are drinking (cheaper) tap water as opposed to bottled mineral water. Is this correct ?
As for investing £2.2m per year............well,.... Gomez will have seen you all square for a few years then !
I don't think that's been proven at all. The club claiming that the bonuses were discretionary does not mean that is the case.
@Davo55 Then it is quite simple to solve. Which party has written confirmation of the type of bonus offerred ? If nothing is in writing, then either side can describe the bonus as it suits them. RD will claim that the admin staff are just making trouble. If CARD has evidence to support the staff claim, then (IMO) it should be made public to embarass RD.
Surely that's for the staff to decide, not CARD.
And IMHO the staff's aim will be to get their dues rather embarrass their boss, no matter how satisfying that might be to them and to the fans. Of course, they already have embarrassed Duchatelet with precisely the aim to put pressure on him.
The staff should release evidence at the right time for their legal process imho ie at internal appeals, employment tribunals or court, not to satisfy we fans
So if I offer someone a bonus based on them achieving a target and they achieve that target and I say I've changed my mind because I'm a bit skint this week. Is that breech of contract or just a complete lack of morals?
Lack of morals for sure, breech of contract would need to be proven which can be extremely difficult if only verbal. My guess is it wasn’t purely verbal and somewhere is a paper trail to a greater or lesser degree.
The fact is it’s stupidity though, my understanding is in the whole scheme of things we are talking about very small sums. You have to look at the bigger picture and he could have avoided it all quite easily, had a happy staff which right now to him has to be more important than a 5 figure sum.
But he’s belligerent so I doubt anything will happen until a court/tribunal decides.
1. The bonuses were discretionary not contractual. Despite the employees meeting their working targets, the team did not achieve promotion, which therefore meant discretionary staff bonuses were not paid.
The carrot that was dangled was always plastic. Just like Roland who is now also hunting down the sender of the threatening letter... presumably to punish them for interacting with CARD and the media.
2. Roland is not a fan of CARD CARD inaccurately represented the water situation at Charlton. He accuses them of further inaccuracies with the bonus situation.
From what I can find, CARD have never said the bonuses were contractual, however they appear to be discretionary based upon staff targets... therefore if targets were met, it is not necessarily legally wrong, but is not managing your staff in good faith when they have achieved what was required.
It is morally bankrupt of such a wealthy individual.
3. Roland ignores the academy breakfast situation This was covered by the following: The academy players still have access to water at all times, now they have refillable bottles rather than plastic water bottles. The ownership continues to invest £2.2m per year in the Academy, which is considerably more than the majority of League One clubs invest.
The statement seems to say "We spend lots on the Academy" and literally despite bringing up CARD's statement on the breakfast, then immediately ignores the removal of academy breakfasts.
4. The club not selling is not Roland Almighty's fault He blames CARD, Supporters and even club staff... But he is the one holding out for more than the clubs worth...
I am personally left with two thoughts regarding the clubs continued ownership by Roland Duchatelet...
- The longer Roland clings on like dry poo on a cluster of bum pubes the harder and more painful it will be to remove him.
- If Roland remains as owner come January, this season will be royally screwed up by player sales of Bauer, Fosu, Taylor, Pearce, Grant and any other players he can make a quick quid from. GET ROLAND OUT NOW
If the bonuses were discretionary and not contractual as I think we were led to believe then I don't think RD had done much wrong. Yes, the club should maybe have told the staff........but if I was a member of staff at a club in such a state as this I think I would have already had a word with my line manager or whoever is in charge just to see what the position was....maybe in June or July.
But apart from that I do agree with everything else pp's have said about the statement.
The staff are adamant that they were never told the bonuses were discretionary, but regardless it is the staff who wrote the letter and spoke directly to the media. It is their view. The attempt to divert it to CARD is woeful. Do you seriously think the staff hadn't asked management why they hadn't received the money on July 31st?
Comments
CAFC’s financial year runs July-June, so the Companies House financial report released approx. end of March 2018 referred to the season 2016-17.
In that report, not only was an increase in the value of the real estate recorded, as a result of a revaluing exercise, but also a hefty income from player sales. Overall, I think the club was in the black for the year.
I further recall someone (in a post on this forum) pointing out someone (?KM) had recorded within the report an opinion that this state of being in credit was UNLIKELY to be repeated the following year (ie 2017-18) because they were not anticipating a similar income from player sales, 2016-17 having been exceptional in this respect. (If it was KM, this was presumably written before she left the club in Dec 2017, fully 6 months before the bonuses were due to be paid.)
Now, if my memory on this last point is correct, it shows management was very well aware that the club would be making a loss in 2017-18. It would therefore be totally disingenuous to continue to promise incentivised bonuses to staff based on a premise that the club would at least more or less break even in 2017-18, since management KNEW this to be highly unlikely. Probably not fraudulent in a strictly legal sense, but in the moral sense..?
If this timeline is right, ie that the letter was received by Roland at 16:35 and then tweeted by CARD at 17:53, the obvious inference is that it was Roland who leaked it to CARD.
If CARD had received it prior to it being sent to Roland, it clearly could not have been Roland who leaked it. But, as it wasn't dealt with by CARD until after Roland took delivery, it seems that it must have been him who leaked it, enabling CARD to disseminate it further.
Furthermore, if Roland is right in suggesting it is CARD who are - directly or indirectly - responsible for the sale of the club being delayed, then such a leak would point to his complicity. He'd be directly responsible for the delay about which he is complaining. And, at the same time, working both to sell the club and to prevent its sale.
Not only that, he's publishing comments that enable one to infer his complicity is both deliberate and brazen. He's actually telling people that the only reason he's failed to sell the club is that he's got someone with an equally huge intellect working diametrically opposite him, ie himself.
I can only draw the conclusion that this saga has but a few more, short chapters to go. One where he sues himself. One where he counter-sues. One where he refuses to acknowledge receipt of emails he's been sending himself. One where he shouts at himself, "ah-ha! how did you know I sent it, smartypants?" One where he shouts back, "because whenever I send myself an email, I also BCC it, so it comes as a nice surprise when I hear a "ping" and see I have another email". And one where he disappears up his own fundament.
I've no idea what was originally said/written between staff/owner/management etc in respect of the terms of the bonus but find it hard to believe that what in many cases will be junior/low paid staff would go to all this trouble if they didn't believe they were entitled to said 'discretionary' bonus.
As for it effecting his ability to sell the club, really............ so said buyers are worried about the potential bonus due of what, £50-75k, lets be kind and say it's £150k, but they are not worried about the zillions the crazy man wants for the club, the fact he's run it into the ground, the fact there's next to no-one left to sell, half the fans no longer come..... blah de blah de blah.
The staff need to make their legal move, it's clear he's not going to back down on his own accord. Number one priority he says is to sell the club....... not paying the bonuses is effecting his ability to sell (apparently)...... work it out Roland, it's not hard.
You could have paid them the money and not had any of this and been able to sell by now, I did try to tell De Turck
As much as I smelt Katrien was bad news from the start, she was hung out to dry as is everyone else who works for this dung beetle. They have no autonomy as it's always the shithead above working them like glove puppets
That doesn't excuse them hanging about, I've worked for people like shitface in the past and have had the courage of conviction to move jobs and in the last case, take a wage drop for my own sanity
Do it properly or don’t do it at all.
All this shows is we really are and always have been an afterthought and experiment
Pretty clear what his game is .
Then it is quite simple to solve.
Which party has written confirmation of the type of bonus offerred ?
If nothing is in writing, then either side can describe the bonus as it suits them.
RD will claim that the admin staff are just making trouble.
If CARD has evidence to support the staff claim, then (IMO) it should be made public to embarass RD.
And IMHO the staff's aim will be to get their dues rather embarrass their boss, no matter how satisfying that might be to them and to the fans. Of course, they already have embarrassed Duchatelet with precisely the aim to put pressure on him.
The staff should release evidence at the right time for their legal process imho ie at internal appeals, employment tribunals or court, not to satisfy we fans
The fact is it’s stupidity though, my understanding is in the whole scheme of things we are talking about very small sums. You have to look at the bigger picture and he could have avoided it all quite easily, had a happy staff which right now to him has to be more important than a 5 figure sum.
But he’s belligerent so I doubt anything will happen until a court/tribunal decides.
1. The bonuses were discretionary not contractual.
Despite the employees meeting their working targets, the team did not achieve promotion, which therefore meant discretionary staff bonuses were not paid.
The carrot that was dangled was always plastic. Just like Roland who is now also hunting down the sender of the threatening letter... presumably to punish them for interacting with CARD and the media.
2. Roland is not a fan of CARD
CARD inaccurately represented the water situation at Charlton. He accuses them of further inaccuracies with the bonus situation.
From what I can find, CARD have never said the bonuses were contractual, however they appear to be discretionary based upon staff targets... therefore if targets were met, it is not necessarily legally wrong, but is not managing your staff in good faith when they have achieved what was required.
It is morally bankrupt of such a wealthy individual.
3. Roland ignores the academy breakfast situation
This was covered by the following:
The academy players still have access to water at all times, now they have refillable bottles rather than plastic water bottles. The ownership continues to invest £2.2m per year in the Academy, which is considerably more than the majority of League One clubs invest.
The statement seems to say "We spend lots on the Academy" and literally despite bringing up CARD's statement on the breakfast, then immediately ignores the removal of academy breakfasts.
4. The club not selling is not Roland Almighty's fault
He blames CARD, Supporters and even club staff... But he is the one holding out for more than the clubs worth...
I am personally left with two thoughts regarding the clubs continued ownership by Roland Duchatelet...
- The longer Roland clings on like dry poo on a cluster of bum pubes the harder and more painful it will be to remove him.
- If Roland remains as owner come January, this season will be royally screwed up by player sales of Bauer, Fosu, Taylor, Pearce, Grant and any other players he can make a quick quid from.
GET ROLAND OUT NOW