Zero chance the parents were involved. Like others have said, there were too many people about and the timescales would make it impossible. Furthermore they do seem like decent people.
Whilst leaving Madeline to sleep in an unlocked room was careless, they've paid the price and then some. People do wreckless things all the time. The McCanns were just seriously unlucky.
Don't buy the argument about wasting taxpayers money. If our children went missing, we wouldn't give two hoots about whose money is funding what. You'd just be focused on getting the truth.
More than careless, it was negligent.
Your kids are more important than dinner, get a bottle of wine and have an evening in the lounge or in the balcony in the villa.
Swap middle class Kate and Jerry for an un-photogenic unemployed single mother.
Swap Portuguese holiday complex for an English council estate.
Swap tapas bar 200 yards from room for local pub down the road.
Are you telling me in that instance, the mum who left her child alone and was abducted, would not face charges of neglect for going off drinking and also have her other kids taken into care?
Whilst I dont believe they killed her/covered up anything, they are definitely guilty of neglect and I believe they have gotten a very easy ride in comparison to what would happen in the other scenario I have suggested.
I wavered from one theory to another over the whole 8 episodes......by episode three I thought they had done it, by episode 8 I was thinking it could have been anyone. I do think they were negligent, that is indisputable. Id never have dreamed of leaving my kids alone at home or on holiday. I also think they dosed all three kids with Calpol or something a bit stronger.....the twins were babies or toddlers at best, yet through all that initial investigating and people trudging through the apartment they remained fast asleep, thats just not normal. Gerry even said that Kate may or may not have dosed MadeIeine with a sleeping drug (you'd think he would know exactly given the circumstances).
I too agree that if they hadn't been an attractive professional couple then the profile of the case would have been forgotten about by now.
I really felt for the Portuguese Mum who's son was abducted who later found her sons photos and or videos on a child porn site, that was perhaps the most moving thing during the whole 8 hours of watching.
The McCanns......hardly endeared themselves in this film or indeed over the years in the media and there is just something about both of them that to me seems a bit off.
Id love to think she was alive still, that would be a fairytale ending, but I think we all know that she is another victim of some sicko. Hopefully that individual(s) gets caught one day, we can live in hope.
Genuinely hate topics like this (in life). Have never been able to bring myself to read about it properly and zero chance I will watch this documentary.
Social media has been full for years of absolute pond life who think they are funny using that poor girl and this story as a basis of humour. I will never ever understand what goes through some people’s heads in that respect.
Swap middle class Kate and Jerry for an un-photogenic unemployed single mother.
Swap Portuguese holiday complex for an English council estate.
Swap tapas bar 200 yards from room for local pub down the road.
Are you telling me in that instance, the mum who left her child alone and was abducted, would not face charges of neglect for going off drinking and also have her other kids taken into care?
Whilst I dont believe they killed her/covered up anything, they are definitely guilty of neglect and I believe they have gotten a very easy ride in comparison to what would happen in the other scenario I have suggested.
I think what they are going through, like guilt etc over these years is quite a gruelling punishment.
Genuinely hate topics like this (in life). Have never been able to bring myself to read about it properly and zero chance I will watch this documentary.
Social media has been full for years of absolute pond life who think they are funny using that poor girl and this story as a basis of humour. I will never ever understand what goes through some people’s heads in that respect.
I think dark humour does have a place in life. Not least because having that attitude can be a coping mechanism in difficult (if not similar to this, admittedly) moments in life. It can be healthy. It can also be unhealthy and spiteful.
I do think there is a fine line between dark humour and being a dick. And you've every right to think jokes such as those above go beyond that.
For what it's worth I'd never make a joke at Madeleine's expense directly, but I do think her parents are open to so much criticism that they are more 'fair game'.
I wavered from one theory to another over the whole 8 episodes......by episode three I thought they had done it, by episode 8 I was thinking it could have been anyone. I do think they were negligent, that is indisputable. Id never have dreamed of leaving my kids alone at home or on holiday. I also think they dosed all three kids with Calpol or something a bit stronger.....the twins were babies or toddlers at best, yet through all that initial investigating and people trudging through the apartment they remained fast asleep, thats just not normal. Gerry even said that Kate may or may not have dosed MadeIeine with a sleeping drug (you'd think he would know exactly given the circumstances).
I too agree that if they hadn't been an attractive professional couple then the profile of the case would have been forgotten about by now.
I really felt for the Portuguese Mum who's son was abducted who later found her sons photos and or videos on a child porn site, that was perhaps the most moving thing during the whole 8 hours of watching.
The McCanns......hardly endeared themselves in this film or indeed over the years in the media and there is just something about both of them that to me seems a bit off.
Id love to think she was alive still, that would be a fairytale ending, but I think we all know that she is another victim of some sicko. Hopefully that individual(s) gets caught one day, we can live in hope.
Very much agree with the most moving part. Some of the other stories with a conclusion were actually the most chilling parts of the whole documentary like the murder of joana cipriano and the ian huntley case as well as a couple of others they mentioned.
I have just finished watching the 7th of 8 episodes, and I keep changing my mind after everyone about whether it was the parents or not. Very interesting documentary that gets better every episode. What are everyone's thoughts on the documentary and do you think the parents played a part or not? I do find their lack of emotion during most interviews very odd...
The lack of emotion doesn’t necessarily mean anything at all. In fact look at the number of press conferences when the victim’s spouse or relatives are displaying what looks like real grief, only for it to turn out that they were the perpetrator all along. Would you act emotionless if you wanted your story to be believed?
I have just finished watching the 7th of 8 episodes, and I keep changing my mind after everyone about whether it was the parents or not. Very interesting documentary that gets better every episode. What are everyone's thoughts on the documentary and do you think the parents played a part or not? I do find their lack of emotion during most interviews very odd...
The lack of emotion doesn’t necessarily mean anything at all. In fact look at the number of press conferences when the victim’s spouse or relatives are displaying what looks like real grief, only for it to turn out that they were the perpetrator all along. Would you act emotionless if you wanted your story to be believed?
I see your point, I just don't get how they didn't burst out in tears or even struggle through their speeches when they made them. It could just be that they are incredibly strong people but they talked like robots during any interviews/speeches. I'm not old enough to be a dad yet but the thought of something like that happening to my future children makes me sick and I feel like it'd almost be impossible to act as professional and as robotic as they did during them.
Got one more to watch. The weirdo in the apartment with the young girl while her mum was upstairs was bloody creepy!
I think it's been quite a good series. Finally confirmed to me that the tapas 7 dined out nearly every night without their kids. The night in question was not a one off. Would have been very easy for a would be assailant to track their movements. Slip the cleaners a few quid for info about who's out and when. Another thing that got I can't get my head around is why the McCanns friend Jane Tanner didnt rush straight to every apartment after she saw someone carrying a small child away close to the apartments where they'd left all there kids sleeping alone? Very odd.
Got one more to watch. The weirdo in the apartment with the young girl while her mum was upstairs was bloody creepy!
I think it's been quite a good series. Finally confirmed to me that the tapas 7 dined out nearly every night without their kids. The night in question was not a one off. Would have been very easy for a would be assailant to track their movements. Slip the cleaners a few quid for info about who's out and when. Another thing that got I can't get my head around is why the McCanns friend Jane Tanner didnt rush straight to every apartment after she saw someone carrying a small child away close to the apartments where they'd left all there kids sleeping alone? Very odd.
I suppose you could see someone thinking it's a family resort, it's just another parent with their child etc.
Got one more to watch. The weirdo in the apartment with the young girl while her mum was upstairs was bloody creepy!
I think it's been quite a good series. Finally confirmed to me that the tapas 7 dined out nearly every night without their kids. The night in question was not a one off. Would have been very easy for a would be assailant to track their movements. Slip the cleaners a few quid for info about who's out and when. Another thing that got I can't get my head around is why the McCanns friend Jane Tanner didnt rush straight to every apartment after she saw someone carrying a small child away close to the apartments where they'd left all there kids sleeping alone? Very odd.
I thought that r.e the weirdo in the apartment, that re-enactment sent a shiver down my spine. I see what you mean about Tanner but I guess in that situation you just assume it's their own child.
Swap middle class Kate and Jerry for an un-photogenic unemployed single mother.
Swap Portuguese holiday complex for an English council estate.
Swap tapas bar 200 yards from room for local pub down the road.
Are you telling me in that instance, the mum who left her child alone and was abducted, would not face charges of neglect for going off drinking and also have her other kids taken into care?
Whilst I dont believe they killed her/covered up anything, they are definitely guilty of neglect and I believe they have gotten a very easy ride in comparison to what would happen in the other scenario I have suggested.
I think what they are going through, like guilt etc over these years is quite a gruelling punishment.
They’ve still got the other kids and served no time in prison.
I don't think they did it, I dont want to watch the documentary any further than the 30 minutes of my life I'd already wasted on it.
I feel enormous sympathy for them, if that sympathy is proven to be misplaced I'll look stupid and I'll have to live with that. I can't imagine what they are going through to be honest
Got one more to watch. The weirdo in the apartment with the young girl while her mum was upstairs was bloody creepy!
I think it's been quite a good series. Finally confirmed to me that the tapas 7 dined out nearly every night without their kids. The night in question was not a one off. Would have been very easy for a would be assailant to track their movements. Slip the cleaners a few quid for info about who's out and when. Another thing that got I can't get my head around is why the McCanns friend Jane Tanner didnt rush straight to every apartment after she saw someone carrying a small child away close to the apartments where they'd left all there kids sleeping alone? Very odd.
I suppose you could see someone thinking it's a family resort, it's just another parent with their child etc.
Got one more to watch. The weirdo in the apartment with the young girl while her mum was upstairs was bloody creepy!
I think it's been quite a good series. Finally confirmed to me that the tapas 7 dined out nearly every night without their kids. The night in question was not a one off. Would have been very easy for a would be assailant to track their movements. Slip the cleaners a few quid for info about who's out and when. Another thing that got I can't get my head around is why the McCanns friend Jane Tanner didnt rush straight to every apartment after she saw someone carrying a small child away close to the apartments where they'd left all there kids sleeping alone? Very odd.
I thought that r.e the weirdo in the apartment, that re-enactment sent a shiver down my spine. I see what you mean about Tanner but I guess in that situation you just assume it's their own child.
When your own + friends kids are asleep ALONE close by?
I have just finished watching the 7th of 8 episodes, and I keep changing my mind after everyone about whether it was the parents or not. Very interesting documentary that gets better every episode. What are everyone's thoughts on the documentary and do you think the parents played a part or not? I do find their lack of emotion during most interviews very odd...
The lack of emotion doesn’t necessarily mean anything at all. In fact look at the number of press conferences when the victim’s spouse or relatives are displaying what looks like real grief, only for it to turn out that they were the perpetrator all along. Would you act emotionless if you wanted your story to be believed?
I see your point, I just don't get how they didn't burst out in tears or even struggle through their speeches when they made them. It could just be that they are incredibly strong people but they talked like robots during any interviews/speeches. I'm not old enough to be a dad yet but the thought of something like that happening to my future children makes me sick and I feel like it'd almost be impossible to act as professional and as robotic as they did during them.
May be the fact that they are both doctors, have dealt with death & probably had to break news to relatives has made them more hardened.
I've not seen this latest "series" but have seen a similar one online plus a few others over the years. My view......stupid & reckless to leave kids unattended for that length of time (I have 3 & wouldn't leave them at all at nights) but don't think they had anything to do with it.
As for some of the previous posts on here ; kids don't regularly go missing & not get found. Usually found within hours alive or a few days later dead. Also I don't think it made any difference that they were "middle class" (what is that btw ?) And "millions" aren't being wasted either - lots of cold cases are being investigated nowadays & MM is just one of them.
Perhaps you think the parents killed little Azaria Chamberlain in Oz all those years ago.
Zero chance the parents were involved. Like others have said, there were too many people about and the timescales would make it impossible. Furthermore they do seem like decent people.
Whilst leaving Madeline to sleep in an unlocked room was careless, they've paid the price and then some. People do wreckless things all the time. The McCanns were just seriously unlucky.
Don't buy the argument about wasting taxpayers money. If our children went missing, we wouldn't give two hoots about whose money is funding what. You'd just be focused on getting the truth.
This, absolutely.
i think it sad that the tragic loss of an innocent little girl always ends up being some class argument.
Can’t see the parents being the culprits, they were foolish/irresponsible - I reckon most parents have made bad mistakes in bringing their children up at some point, and frankly this case and its publicity has probably made many people better parents less likely to make these mistakes themselves.
When I was a kid my folks regularly left us at night whilst they went out.
All we had was a bottle of squash and an order to behave.
There would be 5 kids in a chalet, the mahem, chaos and pillow fights are a cherished childhood memory.
My parents werent negligent and nether were the McCanns in the same situation.
I remember being left in our chalets in the Devon Coast Country Club as kids there would have been between 2&4 of us in our chalet and another couple of friends next door . Between 1 & 10 years old , parents on the lash in the clubhouse and popping back every so often if at all . Not sure if a baby monitor of some form existed in those days in the late 70s.
I can can recall leaving our youngest in the room on holiday with us eating 20-40 yards away and popping back in to rooom every 20 mins or so to check up on our baby . negligent, may be but the resort was closed off and security about but in all honesty if someone broke in and lifted the baby they prolly could have got away with them . nowadays sometimes we will leave the younger kids indoors with a babysitter on holiday rather than have tired irritable kids hanging around the table, I don’t wanna eat at 5-6pm with them and they get arsey as they get tired and hungry ! Sometimes the modern day dummy for older kids of an iPad is pulled out to get them to sit still if it’s not convenient for them to play around near by once all the top trumps and other little table games have worn thin .
Edit* i don’t know what the exact situation was with the McCanns because I’ve never wanted to look too far in to it , so don’t know how near/far they were away , was the room locked etc
When I was a kid my folks regularly left us at night whilst they went out.
All we had was a bottle of squash and an order to behave.
There would be 5 kids in a chalet, the mahem, chaos and pillow fights are a cherished childhood memory.
My parents werent negligent and nether were the McCanns in the same situation.
I remember being left in our chalets in the Devon Coast Country Club as kids there would have been between 2&4 of us in our chalet and another couple of friends next door . Between 1 & 10 years old , parents on the lash in the clubhouse and popping back every so often if at all . Not sure if a baby monitor of some form existed in those days in the late 70s.
I can can recall leaving our youngest in the room on holiday with us eating 20-40 yards away and popping back in to rooom every 20 mins or so to check up on our baby . negligent, may be but the resort was closed off and security about but in all honesty if someone broke in and lifted the baby they prolly could have got away with them . nowadays sometimes we will leave the younger kids indoors with a babysitter on holiday rather than have tired irritable kids hanging around the table, I don’t wanna eat at 5-6pm with them and they get arsey as they get tired and hungry ! Sometimes the modern day dummy for older kids of an iPad is pulled out to get them to sit still if it’s not convenient for them to play around near by once all the top trumps and other little table games have worn thin .
Edit* i don’t know what the exact situation was with the McCanns because I’ve never wanted to look too far in to it , so don’t know how near/far they were away , was the room locked etc
Leaving children with a responsible baby sitter is miles away from leaving them alone, which IMHO is negligent and irresponsible to say the least.
When I was a kid my folks regularly left us at night whilst they went out.
All we had was a bottle of squash and an order to behave.
There would be 5 kids in a chalet, the mahem, chaos and pillow fights are a cherished childhood memory.
My parents werent negligent and nether were the McCanns in the same situation.
I remember being left in our chalets in the Devon Coast Country Club as kids there would have been between 2&4 of us in our chalet and another couple of friends next door . Between 1 & 10 years old , parents on the lash in the clubhouse and popping back every so often if at all . Not sure if a baby monitor of some form existed in those days in the late 70s.
I can can recall leaving our youngest in the room on holiday with us eating 20-40 yards away and popping back in to rooom every 20 mins or so to check up on our baby . negligent, may be but the resort was closed off and security about but in all honesty if someone broke in and lifted the baby they prolly could have got away with them . nowadays sometimes we will leave the younger kids indoors with a babysitter on holiday rather than have tired irritable kids hanging around the table, I don’t wanna eat at 5-6pm with them and they get arsey as they get tired and hungry ! Sometimes the modern day dummy for older kids of an iPad is pulled out to get them to sit still if it’s not convenient for them to play around near by once all the top trumps and other little table games have worn thin .
Edit* i don’t know what the exact situation was with the McCanns because I’ve never wanted to look too far in to it , so don’t know how near/far they were away , was the room locked etc
A baby/child listening service was common practice in holiday camps years ago.
Monitors were wired up to the site office where persons unknown would monitor them. Not something my wife and I ever entrusted. Come to think of it, I can't remember how contact was made to the parents in an emergency situation as it was before mobile phones. Parents were advised to turn the monitors off when they returned home as the office staff were fed up with listening to tipsy couples making out.
Have watched it all and thought it was a very fair documentary. Was expecting it to be a McCann witch hunt, but it was far from that.
Certainly don't think the parents did it, the theories that she died accidentally days before and they made up an abduction are absolute nonsense given she was seen earlier that same day. Also where would they have disposed of the body so quickly, how would they have kept up this pretence for over a decade?
My theory is that given it was a popular family resort, the family had been watched for a while and the kidnapper knew the kids were left alone for periods of time, and he pounced once the parents had done a check and knew he had xxx amount of minutes before the next check. The kidnapper sedated her (and the twins so they slept through everything) so she didn't make a noise and had her away on a boat. She was then sold by a human trafficking gang to some rich family in Africa (most likely Morocco). Failing that, she is already dead, and her body dumped at sea.
This might not make me popular but if you go on holiday then are prepared to leave the kids behind when going out to eat then why have them in the first place?
Back to the McCann’s, I’ve always wondered why whomever snatched Maddie, if she was snatched, didn’t take all three kids especially if, as has been suggested above, they were all sedated to keep them quiet?
This might not make me popular but if you go on holiday then are prepared to leave the kids behind when going out to eat then why have them in the first place?
Back to the McCann’s, I’ve always wondered why whomever snatched Maddie, if she was snatched, didn’t take all three kids especially if, as has been suggested above, they were all sedated to keep them quiet?
Practicality? Surely a lot easier to quickly escape with one child than 3. And i'd assume also a lot easier to transport and smuggle one child undetected into another country than 3.
One thing I thought from the minute I saw the news that is fricking idiots.
If they'd been teenage parents on holiday they'd have een dragged through the coas even to this day.
Selfish, selfish people, leaving babies asleep in an apartment. Honestly regardless of abduction, what of they wake up and just want their mum and its pitch black in a strange place.
I don't think they did it, she was watched and cherry picked, hence the abduteee leaving the two babies and if it was off the cuff carrying 3 kids down the road might have looked a bit suspect I reckon.
We will probably never know the truth. There are reasons for us to be suspicious of their story. I don't for one minute think they would want to harm their children, but being doctors, is it possible they used what they thought was a mild sedative to replace a baby sitter which Maddie reacted against? Or if they just left them locked in and Maddie had a accident whilst they were out.
I suspect, in either circumstance, they would have been ruined. They would have faced criminal charges and possibly the break up of their family. It isn't a massive leap to suspect they may have invented a story to cover themselves.
Now we can't know that happened. We can just look at it compared to somebody breaking into their home and stealing Maddie and decide which is most likely. But most likely is only enough to give us a view. Without any more evidence, we can't do any more.
Comments
Your kids are more important than dinner, get a bottle of wine and have an evening in the lounge or in the balcony in the villa.
Gerry even said that Kate may or may not have dosed MadeIeine with a sleeping drug (you'd think he would know exactly given the circumstances).
I too agree that if they hadn't been an attractive professional couple then the profile of the case would have been forgotten about by now.
I really felt for the Portuguese Mum who's son was abducted who later found her sons photos and or videos on a child porn site, that was perhaps the most moving thing during the whole 8 hours of watching.
The McCanns......hardly endeared themselves in this film or indeed over the years in the media and there is just something about both of them that to me seems a bit off.
Id love to think she was alive still, that would be a fairytale ending, but I think we all know that she is another victim of some sicko. Hopefully that individual(s) gets caught one day, we can live in hope.
Social media has been full for years of absolute pond life who think they are funny using that poor girl and this story as a basis of humour. I will never ever understand what goes through some people’s heads in that respect.
I am a planning consultant, but I don't take planning application forms with me on holiday.
I do think there is a fine line between dark humour and being a dick. And you've every right to think jokes such as those above go beyond that.
For what it's worth I'd never make a joke at Madeleine's expense directly, but I do think her parents are open to so much criticism that they are more 'fair game'.
The weirdo in the apartment with the young girl while her mum was upstairs was bloody creepy!
I think it's been quite a good series.
Finally confirmed to me that the tapas 7 dined out nearly every night without their kids. The night in question was not a one off. Would have been very easy for a would be assailant to track their movements. Slip the cleaners a few quid for info about who's out and when.
Another thing that got I can't get my head around is why the McCanns friend Jane Tanner didnt rush straight to every apartment after she saw someone carrying a small child away close to the apartments where they'd left all there kids sleeping alone?
Very odd.
I feel enormous sympathy for them, if that sympathy is proven to be misplaced I'll look stupid and I'll have to live with that. I can't imagine what they are going through to be honest
Nah. Not having that.
All we had was a bottle of squash and an order to behave.
There would be 5 kids in a chalet, the mahem, chaos and pillow fights are a cherished childhood memory.
My parents werent negligent and nether were the McCanns in the same situation.
I've not seen this latest "series" but have seen a similar one online plus a few others over the years. My view......stupid & reckless to leave kids unattended for that length of time (I have 3 & wouldn't leave them at all at nights) but don't think they had anything to do with it.
As for some of the previous posts on here ; kids don't regularly go missing & not get found. Usually found within hours alive or a few days later dead. Also I don't think it made any difference that they were "middle class" (what is that btw ?) And "millions" aren't being wasted either - lots of cold cases are being investigated nowadays & MM is just one of them.
Perhaps you think the parents killed little Azaria Chamberlain in Oz all those years ago.
i think it sad that the tragic loss of an innocent little girl always ends up being some class argument.
Can’t see the parents being the culprits, they were foolish/irresponsible - I reckon most parents have made bad mistakes in bringing their children up at some point, and frankly this case and its publicity has probably made many people better parents less likely to make these mistakes themselves.
Between 1 & 10 years old , parents on the lash in the clubhouse and popping back every so often if at all .
Not sure if a baby monitor of some form existed in those days in the late 70s.
I can can recall leaving our youngest in the room on holiday with us eating 20-40 yards away and popping back in to rooom every 20 mins or so to check up on our baby .
negligent, may be but the resort was closed off and security about but in all honesty if someone broke in and lifted the baby they prolly could have got away with them .
nowadays sometimes we will leave the younger kids indoors with a babysitter on holiday rather than have tired irritable kids hanging around the table, I don’t wanna eat at 5-6pm with them and they get arsey as they get tired and hungry !
Sometimes the modern day dummy for older kids of an iPad is pulled out to get them to sit still if it’s not convenient for them to play around near by once all the top trumps and other little table games have worn thin .
Edit* i don’t know what the exact situation was with the McCanns because I’ve never wanted to look too far in to it , so don’t know how near/far they were away , was the room locked etc
Monitors were wired up to the site office where persons unknown would monitor them. Not something my wife and I ever entrusted. Come to think of it, I can't remember how contact was made to the parents in an emergency situation as it was before mobile phones. Parents were advised to turn the monitors off when they returned home as the office staff were fed up with listening to tipsy couples making out.
Certainly don't think the parents did it, the theories that she died accidentally days before and they made up an abduction are absolute nonsense given she was seen earlier that same day. Also where would they have disposed of the body so quickly, how would they have kept up this pretence for over a decade?
My theory is that given it was a popular family resort, the family had been watched for a while and the kidnapper knew the kids were left alone for periods of time, and he pounced once the parents had done a check and knew he had xxx amount of minutes before the next check. The kidnapper sedated her (and the twins so they slept through everything) so she didn't make a noise and had her away on a boat. She was then sold by a human trafficking gang to some rich family in Africa (most likely Morocco). Failing that, she is already dead, and her body dumped at sea.
Back to the McCann’s, I’ve always wondered why whomever snatched Maddie, if she was snatched, didn’t take all three kids especially if, as has been suggested above, they were all sedated to keep them quiet?
If they'd been teenage parents on holiday they'd have een dragged through the coas even to this day.
Selfish, selfish people, leaving babies asleep in an apartment. Honestly regardless of abduction, what of they wake up and just want their mum and its pitch black in a strange place.
I don't think they did it, she was watched and cherry picked, hence the abduteee leaving the two babies and if it was off the cuff carrying 3 kids down the road might have looked a bit suspect I reckon.
I suspect, in either circumstance, they would have been ruined. They would have faced criminal charges and possibly the break up of their family. It isn't a massive leap to suspect they may have invented a story to cover themselves.
Now we can't know that happened. We can just look at it compared to somebody breaking into their home and stealing Maddie and decide which is most likely. But most likely is only enough to give us a view. Without any more evidence, we can't do any more.