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Bowyer on Talksport 10:20 Today
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Unfortunately cant find anything out online about who the Agency arePragueAddick said:
As far as I know, the PFA tried to establish a principle where agents would earn fees only from clubs ( like normal search agents) while the PFA would look after the players' interests. I believe it failed to take off because club chairmen didn't support it. Some club chairmen have suspiciously close relationships with some agents. Indeed, see the "scourge of agents", RD and his relationship with Duhan.ForeverAddickted said:Dont the players have an option to use the PFA as their Agent rather than a third party like what we're seeing here
If so would love to know how many times clubs have been screwed around when its the PFA acting on behalf of the player as in those cases they'll surely have less personal gain out of a deal?
i.e. Remember Garry Nelson saying in his book that he was PFA Chairman and had a young Kim Grant approach him outside the Valley about a new deal we'd offered him, Nelson said that he told Grant to accept it as was in his best interests to stay with us at the time
As it stands, agents will always engineer moves, always, and they will push players towards the move that earns the agent the most revenue. That is not an emotional statement. It is a simple description of the business model. No agent furthers his business by endorsing a stay put recommendation to someone like Aribo, when there is interest from other clubs. It stinks, and needs to change fundamentally.
which agency is it, btw? I will try to call them out on Twitter.
Very interesting when you compare Maja with Aribo though as appears both were more than happy to stay at their original club
https://www.balls.ie/football/sunderland-josh-maja-agents-football-403907
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The problem is, every club can refuse to deal with agents, but the fact that every club doesn't and many are willing to pay the high demands means you can't blame the agents but the clubs themselves. That is one thing Duchatelet is right about, but what he is being stupid about is believing there is something that can be done about it.
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Exactly. Like all industries there are bad eggs but there are also those who look to do exactly as you say @bobmunrobobmunro said:PragueAddick said:
As far as I know, the PFA tried to establish a principle where agents would earn fees only from clubs ( like normal search agents) while the PFA would look after the players' interests. I believe it failed to take off because club chairmen didn't support it. Some club chairmen have suspiciously close relationships with some agents. Indeed, see the "scourge of agents", RD and his relationship with Duhan.ForeverAddickted said:Dont the players have an option to use the PFA as their Agent rather than a third party like what we're seeing here
If so would love to know how many times clubs have been screwed around when its the PFA acting on behalf of the player as in those cases they'll surely have less personal gain out of a deal?
i.e. Remember Garry Nelson saying in his book that he was PFA Chairman and had a young Kim Grant approach him outside the Valley about a new deal we'd offered him, Nelson said that he told Grant to accept it as was in his best interests to stay with us at the time
As it stands, agents will always engineer moves, always, and they will push players towards the move that earns the agent the most revenue. That is not an emotional statement. It is a simple description of the business model. No agent furthers his business by endorsing a stay put recommendation to someone like Aribo, when there is interest from other clubs. It stinks, and needs to change fundamentally.
which agency is it, btw? I will try to call them out on Twitter.
Not strictly true, Richard. Some (they are in the minority) will advise against a move in the player's interests and manage their careers to maximise the player (and the agent's) whole career income.
I was chatting to an agent the other day - a Brazilian chap. He represents a very high profile PL player at the moment who is fuming with his manager and wants a move to China. This guy is in the prime of his career and wants to go to China. The agent is like a dog with two dicks because of the money on offer out there.
I mentioned the Aribo situation and he said "If you can get me his number I can get him a bigger club. There is a club I know in Germany who are looking for a tricky attacking midfielder. There are others too" I said "He already has an agent who is pushing for a move elsewhere" and he said "I can get around that, I can represent him and get him to anew club so we all make some money"
The silly thing is he was deadly serious. It just came down to money and he wanted to make some more and claimed he would cut me into a deal. He couldn't give a shit about the player. This happens a lot nowadays - there are "tripartite" agreements where multiple representatives are involved in a player's move and they all get a cut of the deal whether it be %age of transfer fee , %age of wages or both.
The thing is - as much as agents get slagged off for being greedy - if you unearth a gem and engineer a move for them you can be sorted for life so some are going to look after themselves aren't they. Willie McKay's son stood to get £1.5m from the Emiliano Sala deal (10% of the transfer fee split over the course of the contract) plus he would have got a cut of his wages. If a deal of that size goes through and you have orchestrated it you could probably take it easy for a very long time.
And for those who think agents are unnecessary.....remember the intelligence levels of the average footballer. The clubs would be taking the piss royally and the agents SHOULD be there to add some sanity to the process1 -
Wonder if a player making loads of smaller value moves during his career is more profitable to an agent, if they play it right, than 1 or 2 big moves, when you look at signing on fees and percentages of earnings etc.bobmunro said:PragueAddick said:
As far as I know, the PFA tried to establish a principle where agents would earn fees only from clubs ( like normal search agents) while the PFA would look after the players' interests. I believe it failed to take off because club chairmen didn't support it. Some club chairmen have suspiciously close relationships with some agents. Indeed, see the "scourge of agents", RD and his relationship with Duhan.ForeverAddickted said:Dont the players have an option to use the PFA as their Agent rather than a third party like what we're seeing here
If so would love to know how many times clubs have been screwed around when its the PFA acting on behalf of the player as in those cases they'll surely have less personal gain out of a deal?
i.e. Remember Garry Nelson saying in his book that he was PFA Chairman and had a young Kim Grant approach him outside the Valley about a new deal we'd offered him, Nelson said that he told Grant to accept it as was in his best interests to stay with us at the time
As it stands, agents will always engineer moves, always, and they will push players towards the move that earns the agent the most revenue. That is not an emotional statement. It is a simple description of the business model. No agent furthers his business by endorsing a stay put recommendation to someone like Aribo, when there is interest from other clubs. It stinks, and needs to change fundamentally.
which agency is it, btw? I will try to call them out on Twitter.
Not strictly true, Richard. Some (they are in the minority) will advise against a move in the player's interests and manage their careers to maximise the player (and the agent's) whole career income.
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If it wasn't on a train it didn't happen.Swisdom said:
Exactly. Like all industries there are bad eggs but there are also those who look to do exactly as you say @bobmunrobobmunro said:PragueAddick said:
As far as I know, the PFA tried to establish a principle where agents would earn fees only from clubs ( like normal search agents) while the PFA would look after the players' interests. I believe it failed to take off because club chairmen didn't support it. Some club chairmen have suspiciously close relationships with some agents. Indeed, see the "scourge of agents", RD and his relationship with Duhan.ForeverAddickted said:Dont the players have an option to use the PFA as their Agent rather than a third party like what we're seeing here
If so would love to know how many times clubs have been screwed around when its the PFA acting on behalf of the player as in those cases they'll surely have less personal gain out of a deal?
i.e. Remember Garry Nelson saying in his book that he was PFA Chairman and had a young Kim Grant approach him outside the Valley about a new deal we'd offered him, Nelson said that he told Grant to accept it as was in his best interests to stay with us at the time
As it stands, agents will always engineer moves, always, and they will push players towards the move that earns the agent the most revenue. That is not an emotional statement. It is a simple description of the business model. No agent furthers his business by endorsing a stay put recommendation to someone like Aribo, when there is interest from other clubs. It stinks, and needs to change fundamentally.
which agency is it, btw? I will try to call them out on Twitter.
Not strictly true, Richard. Some (they are in the minority) will advise against a move in the player's interests and manage their careers to maximise the player (and the agent's) whole career income.
I was chatting to an agent the other day - a Brazilian chap. He represents a very high profile PL player at the moment who is fuming with his manager and wants a move to China. This guy is in the prime of his career and wants to go to China. The agent is like a dog with two dicks because of the money on offer out there.
I mentioned the Aribo situation and he said "If you can get me his number I can get him a bigger club. There is a club I know in Germany who are looking for a tricky attacking midfielder. There are others too" I said "He already has an agent who is pushing for a move elsewhere" and he said "I can get around that, I can represent him and get him to anew club so we all make some money"
The silly thing is he was deadly serious. It just came down to money and he wanted to make some more and claimed he would cut me into a deal. He couldn't give a shit about the player. This happens a lot nowadays - there are "tripartite" agreements where multiple representatives are involved in a player's move and they all get a cut of the deal whether it be %age of transfer fee , %age of wages or both.
The thing is - as much as agents get slagged off for being greedy - if you unearth a gem and engineer a move for them you can be sorted for life so some are going to look after themselves aren't they. Willie McKay's son stood to get £1.5m from the Emiliano Sala deal (10% of the transfer fee split over the course of the contract) plus he would have got a cut of his wages. If a deal of that size goes through and you have orchestrated it you could probably take it easy for a very long time.
And for those who think agents are unnecessary.....remember the intelligence levels of the average footballer. The clubs would be taking the piss royally and the agents SHOULD be there to add some sanity to the process8 -
No desire at all to defend agents generally or Joe's agent in particular, but in a profession that can be ended by one bad tackle it may be in Joe's own interests to get money in the bank now.
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Wasn't it reported recently ...... Aribo's agent was Marcus Gayle?
Can count then Prem League Wimbledon, Watford ...... and Rangers amongst his clubs as a player.
Interestingly, as Staines Town manager, he's the chap who tipped off Jason Euell that there was an outstanding young lad under him coming through at Staines - Joe Aribo.
When Charlton signed Aribo, I wonder if Gayle represented him then and received some remuneration?
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Gayle is not his agent. He recommended Aribo to Euell (his old team mate). That's as far as his involvement goes I think.Oggy Red said:Wasn't it reported recently ...... Aribo's agent was Marcus Gayle?
Can count then Prem League Wimbledon, Watford ...... and Rangers amongst his clubs as a player.
Interestingly, as Staines Town manager, he's the chap who tipped off Jason Euell that there was an outstanding young lad under him coming through at Staines - Joe Aribo.
When Charlton signed Aribo, I wonder if Gayle represented him then and received some remuneration?
But interesting he was "bigging up" Rangers recently and saying Joe would do well to go there1 -
Sounds like Joe will have a sound legal case against his agent.Dazzler21 said:Highlights:
- Joe Aribo is Going to Rangers.
- Rangers is the wrong move right now.
- In footballing terms, Joe will not progress playing against the other Scottish PL sides.
- Joe wasn't made aware of an approach by Brentford by his agent.
- Financially the Agent gets a big deal by going to Rangers.
- A move to Europe or the Premier league will have made more sense.
- Bowyer was never leaving, he always wanted to sign.1 -
If what you say is correct, Swizz ..... then fair play. I just posted what I believed I had read recently.Swisdom said:
Gayle is not his agent. He recommended Aribo to Euell (his old team mate). That's as far as his involvement goes I think.Oggy Red said:Wasn't it reported recently ...... Aribo's agent was Marcus Gayle?
Can count then Prem League Wimbledon, Watford ...... and Rangers amongst his clubs as a player.
Interestingly, as Staines Town manager, he's the chap who tipped off Jason Euell that there was an outstanding young lad under him coming through at Staines - Joe Aribo.
When Charlton signed Aribo, I wonder if Gayle represented him then and received some remuneration?
But interesting he was "bigging up" Rangers recently and saying Joe would do well to go there
If it's not Gayle, who is Aribo's agent?
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@Swisdom excuse me if the heat is addling my brain, but did you not just argue that there are some good agents, and then spend a long time describing your personal encounter with a typical rat up a drain one?.
i keep hearing from you, Bob, and Ben that there are good ones, agents who might advise a player to stay out for the greater long term benefit, but so far, none of you have been able to offer a concrete example where you know that happened. And I will repeat, that will surely be because the current business model of agents strongly deters them from acting that way, even if some of them may be capable of taking a longer term view. I did once meet a young agent last time I was in the Charlton boardroom who sounded like he was such a type (reasonable), but I also thought he was a great salesman who had figured out my scepticism. It's easy to talk the talk. He didn't give me any concrete examples of advising against a move either. In turn, this business model is more likely to attract absolute arseholes, of the type you have just described, and who have just fucked us (fans) over, just as Gomez agent did, albeit with Meire in cahoots.
To change the influence of agents, the business model of agents needs to change.1 -
I think Bowyer's maybe being a little harsh on Joe. If Joe's good enough he'll develop and get the move he needs from there; it didn't do van Dijk any harm going to Celtic and he's currently perceived as one of if not the best centre half in the world. If it works out then he'll only spend a season or two at Rangers and a better team will come calling. If not then he's got a hell of a lot more money in his bank account and he won't have to see as many insane club statements appear. It's not like we raised him up from a bairn either; we took him off Staines when he was 18/19 so he's hardly going to have the same level of attachment to us as some academy boys might. It's a real shame losing him but it's not the maddest move I've ever seen a player make1
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@PragueAddick Steve Gallen said some were good particularly former players and cited Luke Young as one.
The irony here is that only a few weeks ago there was a statement on the Charlton website insinuating that using an agent was somehow dodgy and a potential conflict of interest.
Only that time it was Bowyer using an agent and Duchatelet doing the moaning.
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PragueAddick said:@Swisdom excuse me if the heat is addling my brain, but did you not just argue that there are some good agents, and then spend a long time describing your personal encounter with a typical rat up a drain one?.
i keep hearing from you, Bob, and Ben that there are good ones, agents who might advise a player to stay out for the greater long term benefit, but so far, none of you have been able to offer a concrete example where you know that happened. And I will repeat, that will surely be because the current business model of agents strongly deters them from acting that way, even if some of them may be capable of taking a longer term view. I did once meet a young agent last time I was in the Charlton boardroom who sounded like he was such a type (reasonable), but I also thought he was a great salesman who had figured out my scepticism. It's easy to talk the talk. He didn't give me any concrete examples of advising against a move either. In turn, this business model is more likely to attract absolute arseholes, of the type you have just described, and who have just fucked us (fans) over, just as Gomez agent did, albeit with Meire in cahoots.
To change the influence of agents, the business model of agents needs to change.
You are right. I said there are some good ones and you are right the one I met was a rapscallion. I'm however trying to meet him for a beer next week - keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Intermediaries/Agents are something I have been doing a lot of reading and research on this year so I am keen to see how this mysterious trade works if and when I pursue it further. Knowing how I don't want to act is imperative!PragueAddick said:@Swisdom excuse me if the heat is addling my brain, but did you not just argue that there are some good agents, and then spend a long time describing your personal encounter with a typical rat up a drain one?.
i keep hearing from you, Bob, and Ben that there are good ones, agents who might advise a player to stay out for the greater long term benefit, but so far, none of you have been able to offer a concrete example where you know that happened. And I will repeat, that will surely be because the current business model of agents strongly deters them from acting that way, even if some of them may be capable of taking a longer term view. I did once meet a young agent last time I was in the Charlton boardroom who sounded like he was such a type (reasonable), but I also thought he was a great salesman who had figured out my scepticism. It's easy to talk the talk. He didn't give me any concrete examples of advising against a move either. In turn, this business model is more likely to attract absolute arseholes, of the type you have just described, and who have just fucked us (fans) over, just as Gomez agent did, albeit with Meire in cahoots.
To change the influence of agents, the business model of agents needs to change.
Solly didn't leave when there were offers. Bowyer is still here. Jacko has been with us for 10 years. I dare say offers for others have been made but resisted.
The problem is £££ is the root of all evil and drives people to do strange things....like recommend Rangers
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Agents play a part in screwing clubs over. But the huge sums of money on offer is the real problem. There is no motivation for players to stay at a lower league club and play football.
Personally I think there should be a salary cap on young players. That way it gives clubs more power to keep hold of their homegrown youngsters.
Having said that Aribo is 23 in a few weeks so probably wouldn’t fall into that anyway. More thinking of someone like Kasey Palmer.0 -
@Henry Irving of course, Duchatelet is hypocrisy on stilts.
If agents were were banned from representing players, and instead worked only for the clubs, as search agents do, what would happen? Less money in agents' pockets, and less transfers in total, I suspect. However, players are not generally as well equipped to look after their own careers as are management types who deal with exec search consultants ( such as I am). I accept that they need more care and advice. That was exactly the idea the PFA had, it would play that role. But the clubs would not buy it, and unfortunately it would need to be adopted globally, given the nature of the game now.
It is a mess with no easy solution. I tell you what though, if we could get Luke Young to come along and give a frank talk on agents, I'd do my best to fly from Prague to be there.
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Clubs win and lose though. Lyle Taylor was a steal for us.3
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Aribo has the potential to be a good premier player but will be no where near the level Bows was in his premier career.2 -
Seems like my hunch was right then, his agent played a blinder. No doubt pressured Rangers into putting more cash on the table for the agent to get Joe's signature. Probably bean mentioned already but I imagine he told them that Joe going to an English club would cost you in excess of 2 million, of he goes to Rangers it's 6 figures and persuaded them to give Joe and himself a bigger sign on fee.
Said it before and I'll say it again, football agents are absolute wrong uns, no different from the cold callers asking if you have recently been in accident, only after their own well being.1 -
Really couldnt see the point of LB going on the radio this morning - dont see what he achieved....1
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In my opinion the agent thing is now detrimental to football in this country. The change I would make immediately is to make players responsible for paying their agents and illegal for clubs to make payments directly to any agent.PragueAddick said:
As far as I know, the PFA tried to establish a principle where agents would earn fees only from clubs ( like normal search agents) while the PFA would look after the players' interests. I believe it failed to take off because club chairmen didn't support it. Some club chairmen have suspiciously close relationships with some agents. Indeed, see the "scourge of agents", RD and his relationship with Duhan.ForeverAddickted said:Dont the players have an option to use the PFA as their Agent rather than a third party like what we're seeing here
If so would love to know how many times clubs have been screwed around when its the PFA acting on behalf of the player as in those cases they'll surely have less personal gain out of a deal?
i.e. Remember Garry Nelson saying in his book that he was PFA Chairman and had a young Kim Grant approach him outside the Valley about a new deal we'd offered him, Nelson said that he told Grant to accept it as was in his best interests to stay with us at the time
As it stands, agents will always engineer moves, always, and they will push players towards the move that earns the agent the most revenue. That is not an emotional statement. It is a simple description of the business model. No agent furthers his business by endorsing a stay put recommendation to someone like Aribo, when there is interest from other clubs. It stinks, and needs to change fundamentally.
which agency is it, btw? I will try to call them out on Twitter.
Good agents would not have a problem with this!2 -
Bromley Addicks light bulb momentPragueAddick said:@Henry Irving of course, Duchatelet is hypocrisy on stilts.
If agents were were banned from representing players, and instead worked only for the clubs, as search agents do, what would happen? Less money in agents' pockets, and less transfers in total, I suspect. However, players are not generally as well equipped to look after their own careers as are management types who deal with exec search consultants ( such as I am). I accept that they need more care and advice. That was exactly the idea the PFA had, it would play that role. But the clubs would not buy it, and unfortunately it would need to be adopted globally, given the nature of the game now.
It is a mess with no easy solution. I tell you what though, if we could get Luke Young to come along and give a frank talk on agents, I'd do my best to fly from Prague to be there.1 -
hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Really couldnt see the point of LB going on the radio this morning - dont see what he achieved.
Oh dear oh dear!1 -
True but i don't think you can completely blame the agent in both cases.ForeverAddickted said:
Bet Sunderland fans agreeMissed It said:Aribo's agent sounds like a right bandit!
Same agent as Josh Maja who turned down all offers to move outside England too - Makes you wonder what deal Bordeaux paid the Agent in that case too
Maja was still on his first senior pro deal of around 1k a week at Sunderland and their owner even admitted the previous owner fucked up by not offering him an improved longer term new deal when he made the first team. By the time they did offer him a deal, his contract was winding down and that's when he was getting offers from abroad.
Likewise with Aribo, if we'd tied him down to a new deal last summer instead of Roland fucking about then the agent wouldn't have been able to do much.
Yes i can't deny the agent has almost certainly convinced both players to move outside England and as a result has profited very nicely from both deals but the simple fact is neither club should've let it get to that stage.3 -
More of this rubbish will happen under Rolands watch, please just sell up and go!!!!!0
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Item featuring Bowyer here,starts from about 19.30 minutes.
https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1561626000/1561626000/
& continues here https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1561626000/1561627800/0 -
I play for an Irish team over here in USA and was in Orlando watching a game in a bar wearing my team training jersey which had a shamrock. There were some Glaswegians in there who were Rangers fans. There were some comments aimed my way which were not banter and very sectarian and vitriolic. I was completely taken a back and eventually left. I don’t understand the hate and violence up there and it has no place in today’s world. Safe to say not my favorite club and did enjoy their downward slide a few years back.0
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I just knew I would come back and read that! :-) so do I get free admission for suggesting it? Seeing as Id have to travel all the way to London and then back out to Kent?Henry Irving said:
Bromley Addicks light bulb momentPragueAddick said:@Henry Irving of course, Duchatelet is hypocrisy on stilts.
If agents were were banned from representing players, and instead worked only for the clubs, as search agents do, what would happen? Less money in agents' pockets, and less transfers in total, I suspect. However, players are not generally as well equipped to look after their own careers as are management types who deal with exec search consultants ( such as I am). I accept that they need more care and advice. That was exactly the idea the PFA had, it would play that role. But the clubs would not buy it, and unfortunately it would need to be adopted globally, given the nature of the game now.
It is a mess with no easy solution. I tell you what though, if we could get Luke Young to come along and give a frank talk on agents, I'd do my best to fly from Prague to be there.
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Everyone gets free admissionPragueAddick said:
I just knew I would come back and read that! :-) so do I get free admission for suggesting it? Seeing as Id have to travel all the way to London and then back out to Kent?Henry Irving said:
Bromley Addicks light bulb momentPragueAddick said:@Henry Irving of course, Duchatelet is hypocrisy on stilts.
If agents were were banned from representing players, and instead worked only for the clubs, as search agents do, what would happen? Less money in agents' pockets, and less transfers in total, I suspect. However, players are not generally as well equipped to look after their own careers as are management types who deal with exec search consultants ( such as I am). I accept that they need more care and advice. That was exactly the idea the PFA had, it would play that role. But the clubs would not buy it, and unfortunately it would need to be adopted globally, given the nature of the game now.
It is a mess with no easy solution. I tell you what though, if we could get Luke Young to come along and give a frank talk on agents, I'd do my best to fly from Prague to be there.
But we do pass a glass around.
PS Bromley is in London0 -
Jesus pound in a pint glass establishment, now we are talking when it next on?Henry Irving said:
Everyone gets free admissionPragueAddick said:
I just knew I would come back and read that! :-) so do I get free admission for suggesting it? Seeing as Id have to travel all the way to London and then back out to Kent?Henry Irving said:
Bromley Addicks light bulb momentPragueAddick said:@Henry Irving of course, Duchatelet is hypocrisy on stilts.
If agents were were banned from representing players, and instead worked only for the clubs, as search agents do, what would happen? Less money in agents' pockets, and less transfers in total, I suspect. However, players are not generally as well equipped to look after their own careers as are management types who deal with exec search consultants ( such as I am). I accept that they need more care and advice. That was exactly the idea the PFA had, it would play that role. But the clubs would not buy it, and unfortunately it would need to be adopted globally, given the nature of the game now.
It is a mess with no easy solution. I tell you what though, if we could get Luke Young to come along and give a frank talk on agents, I'd do my best to fly from Prague to be there.
But we do pass a glass around.
PS Bromley is in London1
