Our recruitment was quality in 18/19 and has been absolute shite since with the odd exception i.e stockley/Dobson. I don't think anyone is saying we'd be better off with him but it does seem strange that since he has left we have signed some absolute stinkers i.e Bogle, smith, smith, schwartz, levitt, Smyth, gunter, watson, soure, arter and the list goes on.
You seem to be making the assumption that Driesen had “responsibility” for recruitment. In practice successive management just accepted him, with varying levels of tolerance, as an obstacle to be overcome in getting deals past Duchatelet. Where loans were concerned Bowyer’s status and connections, and Gallen’s negotiating were key.
Our recruitment was quality in 18/19 and has been absolute shite since with the odd exception i.e stockley/Dobson. I don't think anyone is saying we'd be better off with him but it does seem strange that since he has left we have signed some absolute stinkers i.e Bogle, smith, smith, schwartz, levitt, Smyth, gunter, watson, soure, arter and the list goes on.
You seem to be making the assumption that Driesen had “responsibility” for recruitment. In practice successive management just accepted him, with varying levels of tolerance, as an obstacle to be overcome in getting deals past Duchatelet. Where loans were concerned Bowyer’s status and connections, and Gallen’s negotiating were key.
But even after Driesen left and we still had Bowyer with Gallen, at the beginning of the 20/21 season our recruitment was terrible with the signings i mentioned before
Our recruitment was quality in 18/19 and has been absolute shite since with the odd exception i.e stockley/Dobson. I don't think anyone is saying we'd be better off with him but it does seem strange that since he has left we have signed some absolute stinkers i.e Bogle, smith, smith, schwartz, levitt, Smyth, gunter, watson, soure, arter and the list goes on.
Last season is partly explained by the salary cap. We were playing catch up and missed out on making signings before the cut off point, e.g. Jonson Clarke-Harris, where they could be paid above the cap limitations.
No excuses this season, I just hope mistakes have been learnt from and TS can provide a budget that allows us to bring in the quality we need.
Our recruitment was quality in 18/19 and has been absolute shite since with the odd exception i.e stockley/Dobson. I don't think anyone is saying we'd be better off with him but it does seem strange that since he has left we have signed some absolute stinkers i.e Bogle, smith, smith, schwartz, levitt, Smyth, gunter, watson, soure, arter and the list goes on.
You seem to be making the assumption that Driesen had “responsibility” for recruitment. In practice successive management just accepted him, with varying levels of tolerance, as an obstacle to be overcome in getting deals past Duchatelet. Where loans were concerned Bowyer’s status and connections, and Gallen’s negotiating were key.
But even after Driesen left and we still had Bowyer with Gallen, at the beginning of the 20/21 season our recruitment was terrible with the signings i mentioned before
They were dealing in that window the club was being pulled apart and could only do any proper recruitment once the takeover occurred which was at the back end of the window and we were having to take punts. And initially that window did work in regard that we did only finish just outside the play offs.
Our recruitment was quality in 18/19 and has been absolute shite since with the odd exception i.e stockley/Dobson. I don't think anyone is saying we'd be better off with him but it does seem strange that since he has left we have signed some absolute stinkers i.e Bogle, smith, smith, schwartz, levitt, Smyth, gunter, watson, soure, arter and the list goes on.
Last season is partly explained by the salary cap. We were playing catch up and missed out on making signings before the cut off point, e.g. Jonson Clarke-Harris, where they could be paid above the cap limitations.
No excuses this season, I just hope mistakes have been learnt from and TS can provide a budget that allows us to bring in the quality we need.
Good Point, completely forgot about the salary cap. Just shows even more how much of a terrible window the summer was bar a few signings.
So you're saying it's a coincidence then? I think it's clear that TD and SG made a pretty decent team. The pool of players we are signing from has reduced significantly. That's obvious. That suggests to me that there's a lack of scouting going on. They haven't replaced what they lost in TD. This squad is the most unimaginative collection of players we've ever amassed. There are players we've signed here on reputation rather than their talents. This club can't afford that.
Using individual examples of bad signings without countering them with successful signings isn't worth a wank. We can do that for any recruitment team in world football. (btw Nego wasn't given a chance here and just had a decent run at the actual Euros where he played as wing-back v France and Germany in draws). Solly kept his place in the team, and that's fine. It's OK to sign a player and for him not to work out. It happens.
Many transfers don't work out the way you hope, but you need to get some right. We aren't. It's all very lazy and obvious. We can't afford to be paying over the odds for ageing, injury-prone players.
I don't think we are as far apart as I initially thought, and if I attributed a position to you that you don't hold, I apologise.
I've seen a few people out there making favourable comparisons between Charlton under Duchatalet, and the current set up, and you have to admit the evidence is that the quality of signings has dropped. The email above was at the point early in Duchatalets reign where he wanted to control everything, with some disatrous results, but as he lost interest, Dreisen was still supposedly advising on signings and we had some good ones (as well as bad). The season we went down with Bowyer, we had the lowest budget in the Championship, Covis and a horrible injury list to contend with. The injuries are still here but our budget seems to be top ten (just guessing) while overall our squad is bang average, with a memorable lack of creativity. I don't know if this is completely down to Dreisen, but lets at least admit the possibility that the guy we all wrote off as a keyboard geek did oversee some good transfers.
I don't think it's a coincidence, I think that unfortunately signing players isn't an exact science, and some DoFs have their moment and it passes. I hope that isn't the case with Gallen but he did seem to do excellent work bringing in players he was aware of from previous years and experiences and that well may have run a little dry. Driesen didn't scout anything, he looked at data, which is essentially what Martin Sandgaard will be doing. The problem we had in the early days of Driesen was actual football people were being overuled based on data and only data. It's very important that that isn't the case now and we will see. There's no evidence that the pool of players we're signing from has reduced because of Driesen, none whatsoever. We have been for the last few years and continue to be now recruiting players exclusively from the UK, and we know that it was Gallen and his contacts who were unearthing the Gallaghers and the Bieliks, we're hardly missing out on the finest League Two talent because Tommy is no longer reading data reports on Rochdale's left back. With Gallen at the moment I think of Steve Walsh. At Leicester, he identified Mahrez, Vardy and Kante among others and contributed to Leciester's ridiculous title win. He then went to Everton and recommended £150m worth of dross. He also says he suggested Andy Robertson, Harry Maguire and 16 year old Erling Haaland, but I find it hard to believe anyone chose Davy Klaassen, Morgan Schneiderlin and Michael Keane over them. He now works as a special adviser for Charlotte FC in the MLS. His moment has passed.
I also think the difference this season is we aren't necessarily buying bad players, we're getting decent players and wrecking them. Alex Gilbey was MK Dons' player of the year for two successive seasons at this level, and last night looked like a non-league player against that same team. MacGillivray was Pompey's player of the season last year, Scott Fraser was everyone's favourite player but I'm sure we'll ruin him yet. Chuks was a logical signing based on how well he did for us in League One, Stockley was good for actual Charlton before looking like an imposter the whole time Adkins was there after we signed him permanently. DJ was excellent for Swindon at L1 level and looked ready for a step up, Leko was good for us in the Championship but now looks atrocious in League One. There's some signings in there that aren't great, mostly last season under the cap at short notice, but there's few signings I've looked at this season and thought were a terrible idea. In fact, the players who arguably seemed least logical - George Dobson run out by Sunderland and Sean Clare unwanted at Oxford, CBT let go by L2 Tranmere - have given better accounts of themselves than most of the others. The loans have gone sideways, there's no doubt Gallen is struggling to identify usable potential, but the profile of our signings has actually been pretty good on paper. I don't know how far he can be blamed for the failure of the coaching staff to get that talent onto the pitch where others have succeeded. Fresh ideas might be the answer, but as Airman says Driesen was nothing more than an obstacle that has been removed.
Great post @Garrymanilow . I don't know if we ruin players, or play them out of position, but something is going wrong. I don't think anyone is saying Dreisen was 'great', but the dislike a lot of us had for him as being another Duchatalet imposition may mean he basically got blamed for all the duff signings, and denying he had anything to do with good ones. The truth is never that straightforward.
First I would like to say that I will only post in this topic and not on any other topics. It's your forum and some poeple will not want me here and I respect that.
I will explain what my role was for Charlton throughout the years and how recruitment worked and changed throughout the years under Roland. Some fans will find it interesting. Others will say 'im obsessed' or 'live rent free'
Whatever you think, one thing is sure and that is that I worked my ass off for Charlton and gave everything I had for the club, especially in the last years when I was given final say on the transfers. I was asked many times by different people from the press to explain things, but every time I gave the exact same anwser and that is that I didnt want to say bad things about other people in the press. With this post here it will stay here.
Lets start at the beginning, and that is before Roland bought the club. I was an unexperienced new scout for Standard Liege and worked together with 5 other experienced scouts under the supervision of a director of sports. Roland was interested in buying Charlton but they were in a bad situation and he asked all the scouts to make a report about the Charlton squad: who are the best players, which positions do we need to add, who can we sell or let go, which players we could replace with players from our other clubs etc. Some of the scouts went to come watch live games at the valley, I only watched on video as I prefer. I still have all these reports from all scouts so I can say exactly who said
what about which player. One of the things I see people say about me is that I told Roland to sell fan favorite Yann Kermorgant. I have no idea where this came from (Airmanbrown or Jimmy Stone maybe)? In my report I highlighted him as our best player. But 3 of the other scouts said he was getting old and we could probably find better. So Roland listened to these poeple who were far more experienced then me and who did a very good job at Standard Liege in the years before. These same people also suggested Reza te come to Charlton, I didn't say 'no' but I said I had my doubts about him adjusting to English football.
I did gave my 'ok' for Astrid Ajdarevic and Loic Nego to come in. Not because Nego 'was better then Chris Solly' as people seem to think I said. I don't know where that came from either, but because he was a very talented full back who could play both right and left and also as an attacking winger, a position he now regurly plays for the Hungary national team. Solly had many problems with his knee, so Loic would be a good young cover. He played one bad game and people judged him on that saying he was out of his depth. But the reason he did not play anymore had nothing to do with his quality, there was a conflict between him and Jose Riga and I will not get further into this as its a personal matter for them.
Now, about Polish Pete. He wasn't a player from the network but he was new signing. To understand this signing you have to know how the recruitment worked at that time. There was a method for signing new players and that was that 2 of the scouts must agree on the signing of a player. Because you get so many players being proposed by agents (and scouts) not all scouts can watch every player so work was divided and then Katrien had to make the decision when she would get the reports.
She would sent the proposed players to 2 or 3 scouts and she would sent the proposed players from scouts/managers to 1 or 2 other scouts. From the moment Bob Peeters came in the managers would also count as one of the scouts so if the manager plus one scout would agree then she would also proceed with negotiations. So with Polish Pete, two of the french speaking scouts agreed
on him and Katrien signed him. I had never seen him play for one minute, nor did 2 other scouts. Only the 2 people who watched him were responsible for him. And that happened with all the players coming in. Igor Vitokele, most on here would agree it was a very good player before his injuries, I also never had anything to do with. I'm Belgian, Igor is Belgian, but I was never consulted for this tranfer.
Bob Peeters plus one scout agreed on him so Katrien signed him. That's the way it worked. Many fans say I don't take responsibility for the failed signings during Rolands time, but why on earth would I take responsibilty for players I didn't even watch for one second. Sometimes I was involded but then it was me against 2 other scouts or me against a scout and the manager and then Katrien would follow the majority. This was the case for Christophe Lepoint and Zakarya Bergdich, both I didn't think were good enough. I will never say I was not involved in any bad signings. The poeple who follow me on twitter have seen me name many times the players I was involved with and
that where not a succes (Ceballos, El Hadji Ba, Franck Moussa, Roger Johnson). I probably am forgetting a few.
And sometimes it was more nuanced then just saying yes or no for a player. I did say yes for Naby Sarr, but not at the transfer fee and wage he was getting. I told in my report he was a raw talent but should only sign him when he would be 'cheap'. Which he was not.
When we got relegated from the championship, things changed. Roland and Katrien made a evalution of the scouting and the poeple who made most of the mistakes were not consulted anymore.
So now it was just me and the manager - Russel Slade. We also had a change in strategy to bring more Englisch players in. Like some people already stated here I quickly had a fallout with Slade over signings.
He wanted to sign Crofts and Foley and I didnt. Instead of Crofts I wanted to sign John Mcginn who was at that time in the 2nd division of Scottisch football. Slade then sent me an e-mail with Katrien attached that this was ridicilious and Mcginn is no leader and we needed a leader like Crofts. Katrien followed Russel and I was little bit angry with how this all happened, especially the way Russel acted. Roland bought back Belgian first division club STVV and I started to work more and more for them
and less and less for Charlton. After some time I was given the final say of all transfers for STVV.
But then it all changed again when Katrien left. Roland no longer had his person who he could trust in Charlton to deal with signings. Because I did very well in STVV having final say on transfers he gave that role to me now in Charlton and the poeple in Charlton (Steve Gallen and the manager) would do the negotiations and propose players from agents, and propose players themselves but I had to give the 'go or no go'. If we would have multiple targets for one position, I got to say who the most important was. This worked very well.I would give the ok and then Steve would make the negitiations.
Like I already said many times before, and like Mr Sandgaard said himself some time ago, Steve is the very best in negotiating and Charlton is very lucky to have him. What Steve does not have, is the time to analyze all potential signings.Same for the manager. So you will never hear me say that I am better then Steve or Lee in analyzing players, but I did have the time to watch 10 games of a player where as Steve or Lee only had time to watch some highlights. Steve also went to watch some players in live games, but again, he did not have the time to really really analyze.
I had to say no to many players and I know that frustrated them, but I think I made the right decision every time and they would agree on that now. We would have not had such a great squad if I didn't say no to those players.
It was just very good teamwork. If Steve, Lee and the agents only would propose bad players, then my hands where tied also and we would have signed only bad players.
But because they sent some really good players and I filtered out the bad ones, it was very succesful. The only player that I proposed myself was Josh Cullen who was fantastic against us with Bradford.
All the rest came from Steve, Lee and agents and then I had to watch them.
This is the only truth. Everything else that comes from people like Airmanbrown or Jimmy Stone is just hear say bullshit from frustrated people. I have hundreds of emails and whatsapp messages that can verify everything I say.
In terms of Charlton Life drama, Driesen turning up, claiming he wanted John McGinn and taking responsibility for Cullen is epic Would quite like to hear more in fact...
Really appreciate you taking the time to write that message and explain your responsibility and role at Charlton. Without taking the piss at all. If your contribution was as positive with Charlton in the last 18 months of working here. Wouldn’t someone have fought to keep you employed in some role at the club.
Oh man, we have been through a global pandemic, and now there is potential war between Ukraine and Russia brewing, yet being a Charlton fan feels like it is literally the most mental and unpredictable of them all.
I just have one question for our esteemed guest. What prevents him from admitting that George Dobson is an excellent old-fashioned defensive shield with more than reasonable distribution from deep? No, he doesn't progressive carry or provide a goal threat, or do through-balls, but any insistence that he is League Two level will surely be mocked by any fan who watches our games, to most of whom it is clear that is he is not only our best player but the only one a better team could credibly look to sign in the summer
You can claim what you like but it's your word against Bob Peters, Guy Luzon, Chris Powell, etc. who all said in recorded interviews that you were the de facto transfer boss during their tenures and everything ran through you. There's even email evidence of you deciding the tactics and selection, such was your influence. In a court of law you'd be bang to rights.
Really appreciate you taking the time to write that message and explain your responsibility and role at Charlton. Without taking the piss at all. If your contribution was as positive with Charlton in the last 18 months of working here. Wouldn’t someone have fought to keep you employed in some role at the club.
His point seems to be that he was generally regarded as an expendable cog, which squares with my general understanding of backroom staff
Would love to know more names of players you said no to.
I also wonder how those scouts who wanted Kermorgant replaced and rated Polish Pete are getting on. Such basic stuff, it was no surprise to see Yann help Bournemouth to the Championship title, he didn’t rely on pace and had a few more years in him. I also saw Polish Pete play for our u21s away at Brighton, it was obvious he wasn’t good enough for our first team - he wasn’t quick or strong and didn’t have enough about his game technically to make up for it.
You can claim what you like but it's your word against Bob Peters, Guy Luzon, Chris Powell, etc. who all said in recorded interviews that you were the de facto transfer boss during their tenures and everything ran through you. There's even email evidence of you deciding the tactics and selection, such was your influence. In a court of law you'd be bang to rights.
I had the explanation for this part in at first, but I deleted it. I was the only one speaking Englisch, French and Dutch. So I was always the scout who was in communication with the managers because the others scouts only speak one language. So it was always me who had to let down the managers and say no. Sometimes even for players I did not watch myself.
There is NO evidence whatsoever against me for being the transfer boss lol
Comments
No excuses this season, I just hope mistakes have been learnt from and TS can provide a budget that allows us to bring in the quality we need.
Using individual examples of bad signings without countering them with successful signings isn't worth a wank. We can do that for any recruitment team in world football. (btw Nego wasn't given a chance here and just had a decent run at the actual Euros where he played as wing-back v France and Germany in draws). Solly kept his place in the team, and that's fine. It's OK to sign a player and for him not to work out. It happens.
Many transfers don't work out the way you hope, but you need to get some right. We aren't. It's all very lazy and obvious. We can't afford to be paying over the odds for ageing, injury-prone players.
I don't think we are as far apart as I initially thought, and if I attributed a position to you that you don't hold, I apologise.
Now I have to do some actual work.
That time Driesen decided the tactics and team selection.
I don't think anyone is saying Dreisen was 'great', but the dislike a lot of us had for him as being another Duchatalet imposition may mean he basically got blamed for all the duff signings, and denying he had anything to do with good ones. The truth is never that straightforward.
In my report I highlighted him as our best player. But 3 of the other scouts said he was getting old and we could probably find better. So Roland listened to these poeple who were far more experienced then me and who did a very good job at Standard Liege in the years before. These same people also suggested Reza te come to Charlton, I didn't say 'no' but I said I had my doubts about him adjusting to English football.
So you will never hear me say that I am better then Steve or Lee in analyzing players, but I did have the time to watch 10 games of a player where as Steve or Lee only had time to watch some highlights. Steve also went to watch some players in live games, but again, he did not have the time to really really analyze.
Would quite like to hear more in fact...
being a Charlton fan feels like it is literally the most mental and unpredictable of them all.
Always good to hear different perspectives.
I also wonder how those scouts who wanted Kermorgant replaced and rated Polish Pete are getting on. Such basic stuff, it was no surprise to see Yann help Bournemouth to the Championship title, he didn’t rely on pace and had a few more years in him. I also saw Polish Pete play for our u21s away at Brighton, it was obvious he wasn’t good enough for our first team - he wasn’t quick or strong and didn’t have enough about his game technically to make up for it.
How did you end up getting the role under Roland in the first place?
I had the explanation for this part in at first, but I deleted it. I was the only one speaking Englisch, French and Dutch. So I was always the scout who was in communication with the managers because the others scouts only speak one language. So it was always me who had to let down the managers and say no. Sometimes even for players I did not watch myself.
There is NO evidence whatsoever against me for being the transfer boss lol