Do you not release droplets just from breathing and talking though? Now whilst they won't spread as far, when you consider how long the virus can stay live, it must still be an issue.
Whilst it might be the only reason cases are so high in England, why are they so low in almost all the countries that do wear them.
So as I added above, why isn't the advice to not speak when outdoors as far as is practically possible?
Do you not release droplets just from breathing and talking though? Now whilst they won't spread as far, when you consider how long the virus can stay live, it must still be an issue.
Whilst it might be the only reason cases are so high in England, why are they so low in almost all the countries that do wear them.
So as I added above, why isn't the advice to not speak when outdoors as far as is practically possible?
The advice is to keep 2 meters distance from people, what's the difference?
Yes. As @Bangkokaddick says, the theory behind wearing face masks is not to protect the wearer but to protect other people. Many people with Coronavirus are asymptomatic so by wearing a mask it helps to stop the spread from these people. If they sneeze or cough or even slobber when they speak for example it is captured in the mask rather than being spread around. That is the theory.
I'm not taking sides I can see both points of view.
But, I go out for shopping once a week and go out for a stroll around occasionally. I have not once seen/heard anyone cough or sneeze. So I'm far from confident that the high number of cases in the UK is anything to do with the non wearing of masks.
Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I have mentioned it before and quite a few agreed with me and no one said they have heard one person cough or sneeze.
Has anyone heard anyone cough or sneeze, or is it just me ?
NB if the true answer is in 99% of cases (guess) the transmission is down to speaking rather than cough/sneeze (forget infected surfaces for this discussion), then surely the advice should be to not speak as far as is reasonably possible?
Nobody is saying that is the case. The large number of cases are mainly due to us delaying lockdown. What the mask issue is about what is the safer option? If it is safer to wear masks, shouldn't we be doing so?
Gloves I don’t. You’re still touching everything and risking contamination whether you’re wearing gloves or not wearing gloves, so I can’t see any benefit to them. Just wash your hands thoroughly and regularly and/or use hand gel.
Ross the point is, you are not touching anything. Your gloves are. When you have finished with them, throw them away. In a bin, unlike many are doing. When removing them, try not to touch a part of the glove that has been in contact with any outside surface. Wear a mask or carry a hanky. Wash hands. Do not visit North Surrey under any circumstances.
The problem is people with gloves are protected but they then don't give a shit about what they are touching & so if their gloves pick up the virus they then spread it everywhere they go. I wear a mask but not gloves. In shops I only touch what i need to buy, i don't browse, i don't touch anything at the till & as soon as I'm out of the shop I sanitize my hands & wash them as soon as possible but we can never be 100% safe. Do we all wipe down our shopping when we get home ? Maybe shelf stackers who have picked some thing up with the virus on have then handled the goods that we have just bought. It's an impossible situation but I don't think gloves are the answer, having said that I doubt any of us are that knowledgeable on the subject when even scientists are squabbling about the dos & dont's.
Yes. As @Bangkokaddick says, the theory behind wearing face masks is not to protect the wearer but to protect other people. Many people with Coronavirus are asymptomatic so by wearing a mask it helps to stop the spread from these people. If they sneeze or cough or even slobber when they speak for example it is captured in the mask rather than being spread around. That is the theory.
This is true of the surgical masks for sure, surgeons, dentists etc wear these to protect the patient. I believe that FFP3 rated masks are the most effective protectors mask wise but even then only if they are a tight fit & why aren't we wearing goggles as the virus enters the body just as easily through the eyes as the mouth & nose. As somebody suggested earlier I believe the only reason the Government are telling us masks aren't an effective deterrent is because they have fucked up & there isn't any PPE to be found anywhere. All I know is, we are being told we don't need masks but have to stay 2 metres away from the nearest person because of an airborne killer virus. Well fuck that I'll wear a mask thanks.
Yes. As @Bangkokaddick says, the theory behind wearing face masks is not to protect the wearer but to protect other people. Many people with Coronavirus are asymptomatic so by wearing a mask it helps to stop the spread from these people. If they sneeze or cough or even slobber when they speak for example it is captured in the mask rather than being spread around. That is the theory.
I'm not taking sides I can see both points of view.
But, I go out for shopping once a week and go out for a stroll around occasionally. I have not once seen/heard anyone cough or sneeze. So I'm far from confident that the high number of cases in the UK is anything to do with the non wearing of masks.
Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I have mentioned it before and quite a few agreed with me and no one said they have heard one person cough or sneeze.
Has anyone heard anyone cough or sneeze, or is it just me ?
NB if the true answer is in 99% of cases (guess) the transmission is down to speaking rather than cough/sneeze (forget infected surfaces for this discussion), then surely the advice should be to not speak as far as is reasonably possible?
Nobody is saying that is the case. The large number of cases are mainly due to us delaying lockdown. What the mask issue is about what is the safer option? If it is safer to wear masks, shouldn't we be doing so?
There is so much conflicting information re masks it's unreal. We are increasingly being told it's a good idea to wear a mask to protect others, not yourself. The reason given was because of people coughing and sneezing and droplets can travel further than 2 metres.
When I said I've never heard anyone cough or sneeze (outside my house) for the last month. Not one person has said that they have heard a cough or sneeze, so I don't believe it to be common (yes it's anecdotal).
So then the "argument" was changed to it's not about coughing or sneezing it's about droplets transferring as you speak. Well if that's the argument, we should also be advised not to speak out of our own homes, unless it is essential, because that must be more effective than wearing a mask.
For clarity I'm neither for or against masks until I'm satisfied one way or another and presently I'm not.
Do you not release droplets just from breathing and talking though? Now whilst they won't spread as far, when you consider how long the virus can stay live, it must still be an issue.
Whilst it might be the only reason cases are so high in England, why are they so low in almost all the countries that do wear them.
So as I added above, why isn't the advice to not speak when outdoors as far as is practically possible?
The advice is to keep 2 meters distance from people, what's the difference?
We are being told droplets travel further than 2 metres.
Yes. As @Bangkokaddick says, the theory behind wearing face masks is not to protect the wearer but to protect other people. Many people with Coronavirus are asymptomatic so by wearing a mask it helps to stop the spread from these people. If they sneeze or cough or even slobber when they speak for example it is captured in the mask rather than being spread around. That is the theory.
This is true of the surgical masks for sure, surgeons, dentists etc wear these to protect the patient. I believe that FFP3 rated masks are the most effective protectors mask wise but even then only if they are a tight fit & why aren't we wearing goggles as the virus enters the body just as easily through the eyes as the mouth & nose. As somebody suggested earlier I believe the only reason the Government are telling us masks aren't an effective deterrent is because they have fucked up & there isn't any PPE to be found anywhere. All I know is, we are being told we don't need masks but have to stay 2 metres away from the nearest person because of an airborne killer virus. Well fuck that I'll wear a mask thanks.
Why are you wearing the mask, purely to protect others? If it's also to protect yourself, although the guidance says this isn't effective are you wearing goggles as well?
Yes. As @Bangkokaddick says, the theory behind wearing face masks is not to protect the wearer but to protect other people. Many people with Coronavirus are asymptomatic so by wearing a mask it helps to stop the spread from these people. If they sneeze or cough or even slobber when they speak for example it is captured in the mask rather than being spread around. That is the theory.
This is true of the surgical masks for sure, surgeons, dentists etc wear these to protect the patient. I believe that FFP3 rated masks are the most effective protectors mask wise but even then only if they are a tight fit & why aren't we wearing goggles as the virus enters the body just as easily through the eyes as the mouth & nose. As somebody suggested earlier I believe the only reason the Government are telling us masks aren't an effective deterrent is because they have fucked up & there isn't any PPE to be found anywhere. All I know is, we are being told we don't need masks but have to stay 2 metres away from the nearest person because of an airborne killer virus. Well fuck that I'll wear a mask thanks.
Why are you wearing the mask, purely to protect others? If it's also to protect yourself, although the guidance says this isn't effective are you wearing goggles as well?
I'm wearing the mask because first of all I'm trying to protect myself, which hopefully means the vulnerable person I'm part caring for will be protected & any others that I come into contact with. Which guidance are we talking about ? There is plenty of guidance that suggests masks are effective especially from countries that have a low death/infection rate. There are suggestions now at government level that when we get back to work we should all wear masks to travel & to work ? Goggles no I don't.
Yes. As @Bangkokaddick says, the theory behind wearing face masks is not to protect the wearer but to protect other people. Many people with Coronavirus are asymptomatic so by wearing a mask it helps to stop the spread from these people. If they sneeze or cough or even slobber when they speak for example it is captured in the mask rather than being spread around. That is the theory.
I'm not taking sides I can see both points of view.
But, I go out for shopping once a week and go out for a stroll around occasionally. I have not once seen/heard anyone cough or sneeze. So I'm far from confident that the high number of cases in the UK is anything to do with the non wearing of masks.
Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I have mentioned it before and quite a few agreed with me and no one said they have heard one person cough or sneeze.
Has anyone heard anyone cough or sneeze, or is it just me ?
NB if the true answer is in 99% of cases (guess) the transmission is down to speaking rather than cough/sneeze (forget infected surfaces for this discussion), then surely the advice should be to not speak as far as is reasonably possible?
Nobody is saying that is the case. The large number of cases are mainly due to us delaying lockdown. What the mask issue is about what is the safer option? If it is safer to wear masks, shouldn't we be doing so?
There is so much conflicting information re masks it's unreal. We are increasingly being told it's a good idea to wear a mask to protect others, not yourself. The reason given was because of people coughing and sneezing and droplets can travel further than 2 metres.
When I said I've never heard anyone cough or sneeze (outside my house) for the last month. Not one person has said that they have heard a cough or sneeze, so I don't believe it to be common (yes it's anecdotal).
So then the "argument" was changed to it's not about coughing or sneezing it's about droplets transferring as you speak. Well if that's the argument, we should also be advised not to speak out of our own homes, unless it is essential, because that must be more effective than wearing a mask.
For clarity I'm neither for or against masks until I'm satisfied one way or another and presently I'm not.
Because you haven't heard anybody cough or sneeze it doesn't mean they haven't. People do. There is always a risk that you will hear somebody do it too and that might put fear in you for a couple of weeks. A couple of weeks ago I took the dog for a walk and I kept a bigger than 2 m distance from a couple of builders coming the other way. One was vaping. Despite keeping well away and whilst they were behind me going in the other direction I could smell the vape. It has been at the back of my mind for a couple of weeks. If I could smell it, i could catch the virus. Normally you wouldn't smell anything if people project air by exhaling, coughing or sneezing.
But ultimately if it helps a little, and the advice seems to be overwhelming that way, surely it is worth doing.
If there’s even a chance that masks might help then we should be told.
My assumption is that we’re not being told because there aren’t enough to go round, and increasingly, I think this government are more concerned about negative publicity than actually stopping tens of thousands of our countrymen dying.
My company bought face masks about 2 weeks ago so I wear one all the time, and latex disposable gloves ( using them properly ) what is a problem is people wearing gloves all day and around shops - as your just spreading it, far better to regularly wash your hands.
Running tubes 3 times an hour certainly doesn’t help. Currently the trains on the bexleyheath line are 2 an hour to Cannon Street and 2 an hour to Victoria - which atm is fine but this morning a lot busier. the government advice of if you can’t work from home you can go in - there’s around 3 million in the construction industry alone, Waterhouse’s are back open announced over the weekend that next and river island are reopening for online orders.
In addition to this I looked over Gatwick and Heathrow’s departures Gatwick has 3 to Dublin, cluj and Bucharest Heathrow on the other has flights to New York, la, Boston, Hong Kong, barhrain, Dubai the list goes on - what is the point in us observing these rules and doing our bit when they are still running flights.
If there’s even a chance that masks might help then we should be told.
My assumption is that we’re not being told because there aren’t enough to go round, and increasingly, I think this government are more concerned about negative publicity than actually stopping tens of thousands of our countrymen dying.
Absolutely. The mixed messages have no doubt cost many many lives.
Remember a few weeks ago when the party line was that this thing will only really effect the elderly and those with underlying health issues? Not hearing that mantra drummed out too much these days.
Just heard some melon on LBC saying we must stop the negativity and the opposition should stop throwing stones at our poor government in response to the Times article?
The Times? Opposition? Name me a bigger Tory trumpet blower??
If there’s even a chance that masks might help then we should be told.
My assumption is that we’re not being told because there aren’t enough to go round, and increasingly, I think this government are more concerned about negative publicity than actually stopping tens of thousands of our countrymen dying.
Absolutely. The mixed messages have no doubt cost many many lives.
Remember a few weeks ago when the party line was that this thing will only really effect the elderly and those with underlying health issues? Not hearing that mantra drummed out too much these days.
Just heard some melon on LBC saying we must stop the negativity and the opposition should stop throwing stones at our poor government in response to the Times article?
The Times? Opposition? Name me a bigger Tory trumpet blower??
Even the Mail seem to be turning on them over the PPE debacle. The only paper with whom they still seem to hold any favour is the Express, and it’s just nice to see that rag have a front page which isn’t dominated by Princess Diana!
What is bothering me about PPE is seeing a massive factory on GMB this morning full of sewing machines and the owner saying he has been trying to help in relation to producing PPE but the government isn't getting back to him. These are not things like ventilators, these are gowns and the specs and requirements could be issued to everybody with the capacity to make them. A bit of central planning could see where the capacity is and get these manufacturers to deliver to hospitals directly in their locality.
What is bothering me about PPE is seeing a massive factory on GMB this morning full of sewing machines and the owner saying he has been trying to help in relation to producing PPE but the government isn't getting back to him. These are not things like ventilators, these are gowns and the specs and requirements could be issued to everybody with the capacity to make them. A bit of central planning could see where the capacity is and get these manufacturers to deliver to hospitals directly in their locality.
To bust worrying about their own image, I'm afraid.
Time to counter a piece in the press, no time to organise PPE for our frontline staff.
In addition to this I looked over Gatwick and Heathrow’s departures Gatwick has 3 to Dublin, cluj and Bucharest Heathrow on the other has flights to New York, la, Boston, Hong Kong, barhrain, Dubai the list goes on - what is the point in us observing these rules and doing our bit when they are still running flights.
As this article says, those flights are basically either for cargo - which we desperately need - or repatriation flights which are mainly for people going home from the UK
I have just ordered 6 of these masks used by bicyclist face masks, only because it is looking like Javid will insist on face coverings being worn on public transport. As a protection against covid19 they are next to useless. I bought them via Amazon and while while doing so noted how many companies where selling surgical masks, which I refused to buy as they should be for hospital and care workers only. With the use of masks people need to be trained in how to put them on and even more importantly how to remove them, as they have the potential to be heavily contaminated with covid 19. So you could contaminate your self and the enviroment you work or live in. so you can see why you need billions of one shot disposable masks a month for a country our size and then multiply that by world demand and you can understand the difficulty of scaling up manufacture, this goes for all one shot ppe.
Can anyone recommend any masks please? Screwfix have rightly given theirs to key workers, Amazon's have bad reviews and eBay's are all the same as Amazon's.
Was going to have a look at B&Q and there's a 41 minute queue just to get on their website!
Comments
If not speaking outside your dwelling, in the vicinity of anyone else, is best advice, then that advice should be made.
The advice is to keep 2 meters distance from people, what's the difference?
We are increasingly being told it's a good idea to wear a mask to protect others, not yourself.
The reason given was because of people coughing and sneezing and droplets can travel further than 2 metres.
When I said I've never heard anyone cough or sneeze (outside my house) for the last month.
Not one person has said that they have heard a cough or sneeze, so I don't believe it to be common (yes it's anecdotal).
So then the "argument" was changed to it's not about coughing or sneezing it's about droplets transferring as you speak.
Well if that's the argument, we should also be advised not to speak out of our own homes, unless it is essential, because that must be more effective than wearing a mask.
For clarity I'm neither for or against masks until I'm satisfied one way or another and presently I'm not.
If it's also to protect yourself, although the guidance says this isn't effective are you wearing goggles as well?
No masks and daily outdoor exercise being two prime examples.
But ultimately if it helps a little, and the advice seems to be overwhelming that way, surely it is worth doing.
My assumption is that we’re not being told because there aren’t enough to go round, and increasingly, I think this government are more concerned about negative publicity than actually stopping tens of thousands of our countrymen dying.
Currently the trains on the bexleyheath line are 2 an hour to Cannon Street and 2 an hour to Victoria - which atm is fine but this morning a lot busier.
the government advice of if you can’t work from home you can go in - there’s around 3 million in the construction industry alone, Waterhouse’s are back open announced over the weekend that next and river island are reopening for online orders.
Remember a few weeks ago when the party line was that this thing will only really effect the elderly and those with underlying health issues?
Not hearing that mantra drummed out too much these days.
Just heard some melon on LBC saying we must stop the negativity and the opposition should stop throwing stones at our poor government in response to the Times article?
The Times? Opposition?
Name me a bigger Tory trumpet blower??
Time to counter a piece in the press, no time to organise PPE for our frontline staff.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52319575
As this article says, those flights are basically either for cargo - which we desperately need - or repatriation flights which are mainly for people going home from the UK
Don’t call me Shirley
Can anyone recommend any masks please? Screwfix have rightly given theirs to key workers, Amazon's have bad reviews and eBay's are all the same as Amazon's.
Was going to have a look at B&Q and there's a 41 minute queue just to get on their website!