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Charlton Athletic v Queens Park Rangers | Post-match Thread | Saturday 27th June 2020
Comments
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Watching the Forest v Huddersfield match on Sky & they just brought up a stat that before the game today Forest have had the least amount of attempts on goal for a home side. We are second & Luton 3rd.ross1 said:
If we can score 1 goal from a corner each game I will be happy, just then need the rest of the team to score some moregolfaddick said:
I wouldnt go by anything the commentators say. Good as they are, they are hardly neutral......more bordering on biased. Hardly going to say "that was poor by Cullen......"Fortune 82nd Minute said:
It could have been that one of his "over hit" corners yesterday was actually hit long on purpose 1)to try something differently and 2) to find someone running into the box unmarked. That view was shared by the commentator yesterday.Covered End said:
Cullen has been excellent, I'd love to keep him and I agree with nearly all you say.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
I honestly don't know if you are bored and looking for a response or if you just want to increase the number of Lols you have. Because surely you can't be serious.Viewfinder said:This swooning adoration of Cullen is utterly ridiculous. He regularly misplaces passes and fluffs dead balls. Wasted two corners yesterday - one wildly overhit and straight out of the play, the other misdirected straight to the opposition.
Against stronger opponents he and the rest of our midfield are brushed aside. We witnessed this regularly against better teams at The Valley before lockdown. A raft of opponents were able to convert resolute defence to dangerous attack in a few seconds with three or four passes.
Cullen is merely an adequate defensive midfielder for a club in the lower-second or upper-third tier. We are fighting against relegation precisely because of his shortcomings and those of his team-mates.
The best man by miles at our club is Lee Bowyer. At last at Charlton, here is a man with guts and spirit. Without him, we would be dead and buried.
Look at some of the wasters we have had on loan in recent seasons, people scarcely even bothering to try. Josh Cullen is the exact opposite. He has given 100% in every game he has played for us. Even now he had extended his contract to help us out in these last few games - he could easily have done a "Taylor" and said I don't want to play.
But it is not just his commitment that has been outstanding, he is a talented player consistently winning the ball and laying it off intelligently. And your criticism of his deadball taking is absurd - he is one of the best at this that we have had for years.
Josh Cullen is an outstanding young man and a fine footballer. We are very lucky to have had him play for us for 2 years. He will go on and have a fine career. It is just a crying shame it will not be for us.
However, his corners have been poor all season, often going straight to the first defender.
Yesterday, he tried harder to get it over the first defender and skied it over everyone.
I'd consider Morgan taking them, but then Morgan is needed on the edge of the box because he can shoot and Cullen's shooting is also poorish.
Few are perfect and if Cullen was anywhere near the finished article, he'd be in a W Ham team that are struggling from falling into The Championship.
I'm not knocking Cullen he's excellent. I'm just pointing out a couple of weaknesses in his game.
I've mentioned this before but before Covid hit me & Golfie Jnr would usually "watch" the away games via Sky Soccer Saturday & updates on here & the official CAFC twitter feed. We lost count the amount of times we we read on here....."Corner to Charlton. Cullen takes.......and its cleared". So much do it's now a running joke between. If we get 8 corners in a match then we are lucky that one of our players gets on the end of it 2 or 3 times. A vast percentage are cleared without one of our players getting near to it. This might be common across all teams & all leagues.......but it still does my nut in.
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Hull had a chance late on when both our centre halves clashed and their forward shot sharply and a reasonably comfortable save for Phillips .
Swap keepers yesterday and the result could have been different .
Phillips made one great save and their keeper I think should have saved pratleys goal .
we hardly made either keeper turn in motm performances in either game , which obviously we didn’t have to but they were pony opponents in both games2 -
HT Forest 1 Hudders 0
Now 2-0 after 46 mins4 -
Would be slightly ironic if Karlan ends up in league 1 and we stay up. I suspect under those circs he will get a move away although in the “new normal” transfer market I doubt that’s a given.4
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Also goes to show just how easy it is to do the premier league to league 1 collapse in a few seasons. For Sunderland or Charlton read Stoke, Middlesbrough or Huddersfield? Here’s hoping.6
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Awful ref and lino. Huddersfield should have had a penalty in 1st half it was so obvious. About 10 mins before the end I am certain that Huddersfield players was play acting. Forest player didn't even touch him and ref didn't even give it as a free kick until Bacuna thought his team mate was fouled and hacked the forest player down. OMG. How om earth was that a penalty at the end? How cam the Ref give it from where he was? He was nowhere near the penalty area. Ref was nearer to the halfway line. Dreadful. I guess you can say Huddersfield should have had a penalty so that evened itself out. Did he show a red card to the Forest player at the end of the pen?0
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Our marks go up to 11 whereas most other forums (fora) only go up to 10.Covered End said:
Imagine if we won a game by 4 or 5.2121 said:MuttleyCAFC said:
I think we all have different ways of looking at it. I can't argue that yesterday's result wasn't immense and so was the one before. That is going to influence how we view the marks.AddicksAddict said:
I gave everyone 9 or 9.5 against Hull because the it's not just about the absolute performance on the day, the context in which it occurs is relevant. Having been shite for a few games on the trot, digging out that 1-0 win was IMMENSE. Hence, my scores.Sillybilly said:Think I’m think I’m going to give the player marks thread a miss for a while. @lancashire lad does a brilliant job on this and the season long analysis is really insightful. But people are making a mockery of it by giving ridiculous marks to some players (Bonne has been getting 7s and 8s for the last two week when he is clearly out of his depth). He’s not the only one. This isn’t just a Bonne thing. I know this is all subjective but honestly!!! Some others are giving blanket 10s because we won. I get the sentiment but that is just plain daft. Both of these trends really impact on the worth of the overall stats and is a waste of the bloke’s time who is doing all this for our collective benefit. Over and out. Grumpy of Dartford.I didn't realise everyone got emotional about player marks lol 🙈For the record i genuinely feel all players played well as a team and are worthy of 9s. It was another pressure cup final and everyone did their jobs. Cant criticise anything and i don’t understand the criticism of bonne and mcgeady in particular both of whom looked dangerous and linked play well. Bonnes through ball anyone? 10s if they could have pulled out a 3-0.
Everyone would merit an 11 or 12 out of 10.2 -
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We all have our own ways of marking, but I try to avoid extreme scoring unless it's deserved because the players were exceptional, and not just because we ground out a solid 1-0 victoryCovered End said:
Imagine if we won a game by 4 or 5.2121 said:MuttleyCAFC said:
I think we all have different ways of looking at it. I can't argue that yesterday's result wasn't immense and so was the one before. That is going to influence how we view the marks.AddicksAddict said:
I gave everyone 9 or 9.5 against Hull because the it's not just about the absolute performance on the day, the context in which it occurs is relevant. Having been shite for a few games on the trot, digging out that 1-0 win was IMMENSE. Hence, my scores.Sillybilly said:Think I’m think I’m going to give the player marks thread a miss for a while. @lancashire lad does a brilliant job on this and the season long analysis is really insightful. But people are making a mockery of it by giving ridiculous marks to some players (Bonne has been getting 7s and 8s for the last two week when he is clearly out of his depth). He’s not the only one. This isn’t just a Bonne thing. I know this is all subjective but honestly!!! Some others are giving blanket 10s because we won. I get the sentiment but that is just plain daft. Both of these trends really impact on the worth of the overall stats and is a waste of the bloke’s time who is doing all this for our collective benefit. Over and out. Grumpy of Dartford.I didn't realise everyone got emotional about player marks lol 🙈For the record i genuinely feel all players played well as a team and are worthy of 9s. It was another pressure cup final and everyone did their jobs. Cant criticise anything and i don’t understand the criticism of bonne and mcgeady in particular both of whom looked dangerous and linked play well. Bonnes through ball anyone? 10s if they could have pulled out a 3-0.
Everyone would merit an 11 or 12 out of 10.
Similarly, the team could lose against a top side, but play really well - my points generally reflect the performance, rather than just the scoreline.1 - Sponsored links:
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Whilst a share peoples annoyance at professional footballers failing to beat the first man at corners, some of the comments on this subject have been nonsensical.
Bowyer has regularly said Cullen is a great set piece taker - he’s taken most of our set pieces over the past two years and he was on free-kick duty while on loan at Bradford. Professional football coaches seem to think he’s half decent at them.I’m also sure we’ve scored the most goals from corners (with the least attempts) in the championship this season.Unless I’m mistaken, we also scored the most goals from set pieces in the EFL last season.But yeah, Cullen’s shit at corners...9 -
Yes he hit it long on purpose, but he over hit beyond everyone.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
It could have been that one of his "over hit" corners yesterday was actually hit long on purpose 1)to try something differently and 2) to find someone running into the box unmarked. That view was shared by the commentator yesterday.Covered End said:
Cullen has been excellent, I'd love to keep him and I agree with nearly all you say.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
I honestly don't know if you are bored and looking for a response or if you just want to increase the number of Lols you have. Because surely you can't be serious.Viewfinder said:This swooning adoration of Cullen is utterly ridiculous. He regularly misplaces passes and fluffs dead balls. Wasted two corners yesterday - one wildly overhit and straight out of the play, the other misdirected straight to the opposition.
Against stronger opponents he and the rest of our midfield are brushed aside. We witnessed this regularly against better teams at The Valley before lockdown. A raft of opponents were able to convert resolute defence to dangerous attack in a few seconds with three or four passes.
Cullen is merely an adequate defensive midfielder for a club in the lower-second or upper-third tier. We are fighting against relegation precisely because of his shortcomings and those of his team-mates.
The best man by miles at our club is Lee Bowyer. At last at Charlton, here is a man with guts and spirit. Without him, we would be dead and buried.
Look at some of the wasters we have had on loan in recent seasons, people scarcely even bothering to try. Josh Cullen is the exact opposite. He has given 100% in every game he has played for us. Even now he had extended his contract to help us out in these last few games - he could easily have done a "Taylor" and said I don't want to play.
But it is not just his commitment that has been outstanding, he is a talented player consistently winning the ball and laying it off intelligently. And your criticism of his deadball taking is absurd - he is one of the best at this that we have had for years.
Josh Cullen is an outstanding young man and a fine footballer. We are very lucky to have had him play for us for 2 years. He will go on and have a fine career. It is just a crying shame it will not be for us.
However, his corners have been poor all season, often going straight to the first defender.
Yesterday, he tried harder to get it over the first defender and skied it over everyone.
I'd consider Morgan taking them, but then Morgan is needed on the edge of the box because he can shoot and Cullen's shooting is also poorish.
Few are perfect and if Cullen was anywhere near the finished article, he'd be in a W Ham team that are struggling from falling into The Championship.
I'm not knocking Cullen he's excellent. I'm just pointing out a couple of weaknesses in his game.
I can't recall if it went off the pitch the other side?0 -
Corners are an interesting one. Without the data to hand i thinkwthink score a lot from them compared to the rest of the league but lots of them hit the first man or go sailing straight out. I think it's a case that if the delivery is in the right area we have a good chance to score , probably because of jackos work on movement/blocking etc1
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There’s two ways to take a set piece. You can toss it in in a manner where you’re most likely to have the ball beat the front post and arrive in “right” area, but that’ll mean a higher trajectory and less pace in the ball. The margin for error will be greater and it’ll reduce frustration from the crowd but it’ll be much easier to defend.ElliotCAFC said:Whilst a share peoples annoyance at professional footballers failing to beat the first man at corners, some of the comments on this subject have been nonsensical.
Bowyer has regularly said Cullen is a great set piece taker - he’s taken most of our set pieces over the past two years and he was on free-kick duty while on loan at Bradford. Professional football coaches seem to think he’s half decent at them.I’m also sure we’ve scored the most goals from corners (with the least attempts) in the championship this season.Unless I’m mistaken, we also scored the most goals from set pieces in the EFL last season.But yeah, Cullen’s shit at corners...The other way to do it is to try and whip the ball in with more pace and at the perfect height. Much harder to get right, but when you do it’s much better for your players to attack and harder to defend. Because it’s harder you’ll get it wrong more (hit the first man, stick it out for a throw-in on the far side) but I’d wager you’ll score more in the long run.
Cullen’s free kicks and corners fall into the second category. The stats say we score an above average amount of set piece goals. We’re not a team packed with giants - our defenders (Naby aside) are on the small side, for example - so you’d think we’d be less threatening than most at set pieces. The fact we’re better than most speaks volumes for the creativity of our set piece routines and the quality of the delivery.21 -
This with bells on.Exiled_Addick said:
There’s two ways to take a set piece. You can toss it in in a manner where you’re most likely to have the ball beat the front post and arrive in “right” area, but that’ll mean a higher trajectory and less pace in the ball. The margin for error will be greater and it’ll reduce frustration from the crowd but it’ll be much easier to defend.ElliotCAFC said:Whilst a share peoples annoyance at professional footballers failing to beat the first man at corners, some of the comments on this subject have been nonsensical.
Bowyer has regularly said Cullen is a great set piece taker - he’s taken most of our set pieces over the past two years and he was on free-kick duty while on loan at Bradford. Professional football coaches seem to think he’s half decent at them.I’m also sure we’ve scored the most goals from corners (with the least attempts) in the championship this season.Unless I’m mistaken, we also scored the most goals from set pieces in the EFL last season.But yeah, Cullen’s shit at corners...The other way to do it is to try and whip the ball in with more pace and at the perfect height. Much harder to get right, but when you do it’s much better for your players to attack and harder to defend. Because it’s harder you’ll get it wrong more (hit the first man, stick it out for a throw-in on the far side) but I’d wager you’ll score more in the long run.
Cullen’s free kicks and corners fall into the second category. The stats say we score an above average amount of set piece goals. We’re not a team packed with giants - our defenders (Naby aside) are on the small side, for example - so you’d think we’d be less threatening than most at set pieces. The fact we’re better than most speaks volumes for the creativity of our set piece routines and the quality of the delivery.Overall I’d say we’re overachieving from set pieces when you compare the size of our players to other teams in the league (Millwall, Cardiff, Sheffield Wednesday, etc.).
A lot of credit has to go to Jacko and Andy Marshall, who Lee Bowyer is very quick to complement whenever we score from a set play.3 -
(oops very wrong thread)0
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Very interesting comments there on set pieces and something I'd complained about in the past. Seems tho I was wrong!!!!
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Some interesting stats on corners in this video. Not beating the first man is fairly common, and there aren’t as many goals from corners as you might expect.
https://youtu.be/aSZ14y3fQb0 7 -
Yes it did. For their throw.Covered End said:
Yes he hit it long on purpose, but he over hit beyond everyone.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
It could have been that one of his "over hit" corners yesterday was actually hit long on purpose 1)to try something differently and 2) to find someone running into the box unmarked. That view was shared by the commentator yesterday.Covered End said:
Cullen has been excellent, I'd love to keep him and I agree with nearly all you say.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
I honestly don't know if you are bored and looking for a response or if you just want to increase the number of Lols you have. Because surely you can't be serious.Viewfinder said:This swooning adoration of Cullen is utterly ridiculous. He regularly misplaces passes and fluffs dead balls. Wasted two corners yesterday - one wildly overhit and straight out of the play, the other misdirected straight to the opposition.
Against stronger opponents he and the rest of our midfield are brushed aside. We witnessed this regularly against better teams at The Valley before lockdown. A raft of opponents were able to convert resolute defence to dangerous attack in a few seconds with three or four passes.
Cullen is merely an adequate defensive midfielder for a club in the lower-second or upper-third tier. We are fighting against relegation precisely because of his shortcomings and those of his team-mates.
The best man by miles at our club is Lee Bowyer. At last at Charlton, here is a man with guts and spirit. Without him, we would be dead and buried.
Look at some of the wasters we have had on loan in recent seasons, people scarcely even bothering to try. Josh Cullen is the exact opposite. He has given 100% in every game he has played for us. Even now he had extended his contract to help us out in these last few games - he could easily have done a "Taylor" and said I don't want to play.
But it is not just his commitment that has been outstanding, he is a talented player consistently winning the ball and laying it off intelligently. And your criticism of his deadball taking is absurd - he is one of the best at this that we have had for years.
Josh Cullen is an outstanding young man and a fine footballer. We are very lucky to have had him play for us for 2 years. He will go on and have a fine career. It is just a crying shame it will not be for us.
However, his corners have been poor all season, often going straight to the first defender.
Yesterday, he tried harder to get it over the first defender and skied it over everyone.
I'd consider Morgan taking them, but then Morgan is needed on the edge of the box because he can shoot and Cullen's shooting is also poorish.
Few are perfect and if Cullen was anywhere near the finished article, he'd be in a W Ham team that are struggling from falling into The Championship.
I'm not knocking Cullen he's excellent. I'm just pointing out a couple of weaknesses in his game.
I can't recall if it went off the pitch the other side?0 -
I'm a great advocate of the inswinging corner. Firstly, if it's got good pace on it then the merest touch ( by attacker or defender) could mean a goal. Secondly, its harder to defend as the ball is going towards the goal. If a touch doesnt lead to a goal it invariably leads to another corner. Finally......as said on that video, the ball is nearer the goal. An outswingrr could mean meeting the ball near the edge of the box so any touch or shot might not reach the goal.Scoham said:Some interesting stats on corners in this video. Not beating the first man is fairly common, and there aren’t as many goals from corners as you might expect.https://youtu.be/aSZ14y3fQb0
It seems so simple.1 - Sponsored links:
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What I have noticed is that a lot of our midfield passing is very sharp and there is a willingness to risk the killer ball. Hull and QPR passed it around but there was a difference. Excuse my French but Vive la difference!0
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Getting back to the way Bowyer wants us to play. Passing the ball but with purpose, not just pretty triangles for the sake of it. When it’s going well we get lots of high probability chances, but don’t “waste” our time on speculative long shots. We were really struggling with chance creation during our poor run, but these last two games we’ve been getting into excellent areas around the 18 yard box, particularly in crossing positions out wide. So far the final ball or decision making of the man in possession has seen the moves break down too often at the final hurdle but we’re moving the ball through the lines with much more zip and opening up spaces as a result. I’m confident the goals will start to flow soon if we can keep it up. Bonne, in particular, just needs one to get him started.MuttleyCAFC said:What I have noticed is that a lot of our midfield passing is very sharp and there is a willingness to risk the killer ball. Hull and QPR passed it around but there was a difference. Excuse my French but Vive la difference!2 -
Yes. It is early days, but you can see something developing here. Hoping we can stay fit and see where this will take us.2
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You never know Muttley, it might lead to some medals.1
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Those corner statistics are quite depressing. Maybe we should go back to what we had before the Sheffield FA came up with the idea: The first player to touch the ball when it goes over the line gets possession and takes a free kick from the line. That might involve players going into the stands to get the ball first but seeing now that there are no spectators, it could make these souless matches more entertaining ....................
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Darren Ambrose, Danny Green, Josh Cullen.ElliotCAFC said:Whilst a share peoples annoyance at professional footballers failing to beat the first man at corners, some of the comments on this subject have been nonsensical.
Bowyer has regularly said Cullen is a great set piece taker - he’s taken most of our set pieces over the past two years and he was on free-kick duty while on loan at Bradford. Professional football coaches seem to think he’s half decent at them.I’m also sure we’ve scored the most goals from corners (with the least attempts) in the championship this season.Unless I’m mistaken, we also scored the most goals from set pieces in the EFL last season.But yeah, Cullen’s shit at corners...
I know who I'd rather have taking corners. When Cullen takes them we actually score from the occasional one. We went seasons almost without scoring from a corner with some of the dross we had taking them. I've named two I considered poor given that many rated the pair of them highly.3 -
People giving Cullen stick for shit corners? I could have sworn we won 1-0 yesterday with a Pratley header from a Cullen corner?7
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You think that's crazy - there are people on here who actually think the teams above us in the league are still in trouble!cafcfan1990 said:People giving Cullen stick for shit corners? I could have sworn we won 1-0 yesterday with a Pratley header from a Cullen corner?1 -
I did notice that Cullen has been studying the old Kinsella ball placement techinique of putting the ball at least a few inches along the goal line from the actual corner quadrant.3
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There was a shocker in the first half!Weegie Addick said:I did notice that Cullen has been studying the old Kinsella ball placement techinique of putting the ball at least a few inches along the goal line from the actual corner quadrant.
In the PL with VAR would this be something they look at?0
