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Summer Transfer Rumours 2020 (DEADLINE DAY from pg.258)

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  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,846
    king addick said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    king addick said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips. 

    We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages.  They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages.  Maybe even pay a loan fee. 

    We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week.  Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages.  We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we? 
    I think that's a really good shout to be honest. I think the problem with Phillips is who is going to want him. Begovic didn't leave Bournemouth so doubt they'll be interested. 

    I'd even go further and let the team have Phillips on a free, doesn't make any difference to us if he's going to go for free next summer anyway, on the condition they loan us a player or two on the cheap. 

    All that time Charlton have spent training him etc over the years... you should want a return after putting the time and effort into him. 
    Of course I don't disagree. But we now find ourself in a position where Phillips could be sat in our reserves all season and then leave for free next summer, or possibly for a very small fee in January (which would cost us in unnecessary wages until then anyway). Or we could give Phillips to a club on a free on the condition they loan us say 2 players who are on a combined 15k. It's a way round the wage cap and although appears we got nothing for Phillips, that's not quite true. 
    Fully agree he needs to go especially if he wont play. Just feel we should command a fee if we can even if its cut price.
    Dillon isn't refusing to play, it's Bowyer choosing to not pick him
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    king addick said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    king addick said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips. 

    We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages.  They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages.  Maybe even pay a loan fee. 

    We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week.  Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages.  We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we? 
    I think that's a really good shout to be honest. I think the problem with Phillips is who is going to want him. Begovic didn't leave Bournemouth so doubt they'll be interested. 

    I'd even go further and let the team have Phillips on a free, doesn't make any difference to us if he's going to go for free next summer anyway, on the condition they loan us a player or two on the cheap. 

    All that time Charlton have spent training him etc over the years... you should want a return after putting the time and effort into him. 
    Of course I don't disagree. But we now find ourself in a position where Phillips could be sat in our reserves all season and then leave for free next summer, or possibly for a very small fee in January (which would cost us in unnecessary wages until then anyway). Or we could give Phillips to a club on a free on the condition they loan us say 2 players who are on a combined 15k. It's a way round the wage cap and although appears we got nothing for Phillips, that's not quite true. 
    Fully agree he needs to go especially if he wont play. Just feel we should command a fee if we can even if its cut price.
    I'd usually agree but I think you also need to consider the benefit of getting around the cap. Would you rather get say 1.5mil for Phillips and then not be able to do anything with that money, or 2 players on loan on 15k with the loaning team paying all the wages. It's half the value on the face of it but more beneficial overall. 
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Henry Irving said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips. 

    We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages.  They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages.  Maybe even pay a loan fee. 

    We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week.  Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages.  We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we? 
    Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher.  Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.

    If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.

    BTW the cap isn't ageist either.  You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like.  You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
    Yeah so we are paying Phillips, for cap purposes, £2k and aren't paying the loan anything. 
  • grumpyaddick
    grumpyaddick Posts: 6,596
    Never mind just Phillips.

    Why don't we loan out our entire first team and loan back in a better one from the Premier League or Championship, with the parent club footing the wage bill of their own players?

    It's brilliant!
  • Leeds_Addick
    Leeds_Addick Posts: 4,699
    Henry Irving said:
    Leeds_Addick said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips. 

    We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages.  They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages.  Maybe even pay a loan fee. 

    We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week.  Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages.  We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we? 
    Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher.  Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.

    If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.

    BTW the cap isn't ageist either.  You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like.  You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
    That’s not true is it? 

    You could pay an U21 player 50k a week but you can’t pay a 22 year old that. 
    Not really as that would be £2.6m so that one player would bust your limit.

    But you can pay one player as much as you like within the cap.

    Additionally, if they were on £50k pw but signed last season then it would only count as £2k pw
    I thought the U21 players were exempt from the cap though - anything you pay them isn't counted towards it? 

    Maybe I've misunderstood it
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,221
    grumpyaddick said:
    Never mind just Phillips.

    Why don't we loan out our entire first team and loan back in a better one from the Premier League or Championship, with the parent club footing the wage bill of their own players?

    It's brilliant!
    can only have five loans in the 18 man squad and only 8 in total.

    and yes, I know you weren't being 100% serious
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    Henry Irving said:
    Leeds_Addick said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips. 

    We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages.  They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages.  Maybe even pay a loan fee. 

    We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week.  Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages.  We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we? 
    Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher.  Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.

    If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.

    BTW the cap isn't ageist either.  You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like.  You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
    That’s not true is it? 

    You could pay an U21 player 50k a week but you can’t pay a 22 year old that. 
    Not really as that would be £2.6m so that one player would bust your limit.

    But you can pay one player as much as you like within the cap.

    Additionally, if they were on £50k pw but signed last season then it would only count as £2k pw

    Henry Irving said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips. 

    We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages.  They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages.  Maybe even pay a loan fee. 

    We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week.  Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages.  We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we? 
    Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher.  Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.

    If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.

    BTW the cap isn't ageist either.  You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like.  You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
    Is that definitely true, I thought it was only what we paid? So if we got a player on loan from say Stoke who is on 10k a week but they pay his wages he counts as 10k for our cap? 
    Yes, if Stoke paid all his wages then it wouldn't impact on our £2.5m ceiling as I understand it.
    I believe it was said that the rule states that players under the age of 21 on 01/01/2020 are not included in the cap calculation. So they could be on £50k a week and it would not affect the £2.5m calculation. 

    Monies received from loan fees are also credited back against the cap.

    From the EFL announcement:
    "any income generated from players going out on loan is deducted from the Club’s Salary Cap calculation." 

    So if you hit the limit of £2.5m then receive a loan fee of £500k then you have £500k more to spend on salaries. 

  • doronron
    doronron Posts: 817
    I really thought there would of been lots of clubs looking to take Phillips,does make me wonder why there seems not to be 
  • ricky_otto
    ricky_otto Posts: 22,600
    edited October 2020
    grumpyaddick said:
    Never mind just Phillips.

    Why don't we loan out our entire first team and loan back in a better one from the Premier League or Championship, with the parent club footing the wage bill of their own players?

    It's brilliant!
    Trouble is nobody would want our players.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,627
    king addick said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips. 

    We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages.  They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages.  Maybe even pay a loan fee. 

    We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week.  Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages.  We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we? 
    I think that's a really good shout to be honest. I think the problem with Phillips is who is going to want him. Begovic didn't leave Bournemouth so doubt they'll be interested. 

    I'd even go further and let the team have Phillips on a free, doesn't make any difference to us if he's going to go for free next summer anyway, on the condition they loan us a player or two on the cheap. 

    All that time Charlton have spent training him etc over the years... you should want a return after putting the time and effort into him. 
    Only the EFL can get a club to the point where they are considering getting rid of a player for nothing just so it frees up £2k pw on wages.........and that club could buy a player for £1m+ if they wanted to.

    Thanks Accrington, Burton, Walsall & all the other clubs that voted this stupid salary cap in.
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  • king addick
    king addick Posts: 3,701
    killerandflash said:
    king addick said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    king addick said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips. 

    We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages.  They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages.  Maybe even pay a loan fee. 

    We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week.  Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages.  We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we? 
    I think that's a really good shout to be honest. I think the problem with Phillips is who is going to want him. Begovic didn't leave Bournemouth so doubt they'll be interested. 

    I'd even go further and let the team have Phillips on a free, doesn't make any difference to us if he's going to go for free next summer anyway, on the condition they loan us a player or two on the cheap. 

    All that time Charlton have spent training him etc over the years... you should want a return after putting the time and effort into him. 
    Of course I don't disagree. But we now find ourself in a position where Phillips could be sat in our reserves all season and then leave for free next summer, or possibly for a very small fee in January (which would cost us in unnecessary wages until then anyway). Or we could give Phillips to a club on a free on the condition they loan us say 2 players who are on a combined 15k. It's a way round the wage cap and although appears we got nothing for Phillips, that's not quite true. 
    Fully agree he needs to go especially if he wont play. Just feel we should command a fee if we can even if its cut price.
    Dillon isn't refusing to play, it's Bowyer choosing to not pick him
    Sorry meant as wont in play general. Either way its best he goes for both his and Charltons sake.
  • sam3110
    sam3110 Posts: 21,263
    doronron said:
    I really thought there would of been lots of clubs looking to take Phillips,does make me wonder why there seems not to be 
    Half decent keepers are 10 a penny in the championship and above, we've had loads on loan over the years and pretty much all of them were good enough, the likes of Steer, Amos, Etheridge, Alnwick etc. 
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,035
    edited October 2020
    Leeds_Addick said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Leeds_Addick said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips. 

    We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages.  They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages.  Maybe even pay a loan fee. 

    We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week.  Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages.  We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we? 
    Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher.  Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.

    If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.

    BTW the cap isn't ageist either.  You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like.  You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
    That’s not true is it? 

    You could pay an U21 player 50k a week but you can’t pay a 22 year old that. 
    Not really as that would be £2.6m so that one player would bust your limit.

    But you can pay one player as much as you like within the cap.

    Additionally, if they were on £50k pw but signed last season then it would only count as £2k pw
    I thought the U21 players were exempt from the cap though - anything you pay them isn't counted towards it? 

    Maybe I've misunderstood it
    No, you are correct. The cap only applies to players over the age of 21 on January 1st. 
  • CL_Phantom
    CL_Phantom Posts: 5,513
    Leeds_Addick said:
    CL_Phantom said:
    Redrobo said:
    January will be a quiet window for us. ☹️


    I see the Jan window as potentially being better personally.

    it's hard this window in tempting away the best of league one, top players from clubs with similar aims won't see a move with the wage cap as worthwhile financially or for family reasons, but say for example we're sat in 4th with a good gap below and a few points from above, then the best of those "also ran" clubs (Donny, the dons etc) might see our position and think they've got a much much better chance of getting to the champ.

    We're 4th, Pompey are 8th cheeky bid for a player we might fancy etc.
    I think there will be next to 0 movement in L1 in January. Every club will already be at the cap and not able to sign anyone else.

    That’s my problem with it, it’s not really a “cap”, more of a required level of spending. 
    Good point 🤦🏻‍♂️
  • CafcWest
    CafcWest Posts: 6,167
    edited October 2020
    Can understand the idea of a salary cap to prevent clubs overspending and putting themselves at risk.  But it shouldn't be a fixed amount across the league.  It should be proportionate to the club's annual turnover - maybe with an upper and lower limit.  It would allow bigger clubs to spend more as they should have more resources and are therefore less likely to be at risk.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    CL_Phantom said:
    Leeds_Addick said:
    CL_Phantom said:
    Redrobo said:
    January will be a quiet window for us. ☹️


    I see the Jan window as potentially being better personally.

    it's hard this window in tempting away the best of league one, top players from clubs with similar aims won't see a move with the wage cap as worthwhile financially or for family reasons, but say for example we're sat in 4th with a good gap below and a few points from above, then the best of those "also ran" clubs (Donny, the dons etc) might see our position and think they've got a much much better chance of getting to the champ.

    We're 4th, Pompey are 8th cheeky bid for a player we might fancy etc.
    I think there will be next to 0 movement in L1 in January. Every club will already be at the cap and not able to sign anyone else.

    That’s my problem with it, it’s not really a “cap”, more of a required level of spending. 
    Good point 🤦🏻‍♂️
    It also shits all over the EFL's own argument that the piramid is vital for supplying players to the premier league and national team.  If your 22 and not fully developed to be a 1st team player in league 1 or 2 your screwed. 

    Why would anyone have a 22 year old that's not good enough to be a first team regular, waste of wages. Even if they are only on £800 a week or what ever. 
  • Lazy_eye_metaphor
    Lazy_eye_metaphor Posts: 1,959
    sam3110 said:
    doronron said:
    I really thought there would of been lots of clubs looking to take Phillips,does make me wonder why there seems not to be 
    Half decent keepers are 10 a penny in the championship and above, we've had loads on loan over the years and pretty much all of them were good enough, the likes of Steer, Amos, Etheridge, Alnwick etc. 
    i think Phillips is a bit better than "half decent".
  • Addictedoldgit
    Addictedoldgit Posts: 1,826
    MattF said:
    A CB just become number one priority I suspect 

    Deji out now, joins Pearce.

    Permission to wet the bed sir!!
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,477
    Moo said:
    Need to get Phillips out the door to free up some wages. 
    Well......we don’t know what Thomas is prepared to lay out in the first instance?
    You seem to be talking as though we have to live the all to familiar ‘hand to mouth existence’ that we have for many a year.
    Without actually knowing the financial situation right now, I would like to think that we are in a considerably better situation than we have been of late and where as parting with Philips would indeed free up some money for salaries, do we really ‘need’ to do that......I’m not sure?
  • MartinCAFC
    MartinCAFC Posts: 3,219
    Unless Bowyer & Gallen can work some magic again by Friday I don't think we've got enough to make the top six this year at least as we stand. A lot will hinge on the striker they (hopefully) bring in.

    I don't think our strikers have enough goals and we're going to be too prone to conceding silly goals. I think it'll be like that period under Slade then Robinson where we drew a lot of games 1-1 we should have won after being 1-0 up and not killing teams off.

    Fingers crossed for it to look different on Friday.
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  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    SoundAsa£ said:
    Moo said:
    Need to get Phillips out the door to free up some wages. 
    Well......we don’t know what Thomas is prepared to lay out in the first instance?
    You seem to be talking as though we have to live the all to familiar ‘hand to mouth existence’ that we have for many a year.
    Without actually knowing the financial situation right now, I would like to think that we are in a considerably better situation than we have been of late and where as parting with Philips would indeed free up some money for salaries, do we really ‘need’ to do that......I’m not sure?
    We can only spend what we are allowed, it doesn't matter how much Thomas can or wants to spend. 
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,035
    MartinCAFC said:
    Unless Bowyer & Gallen can work some magic again by Friday I don't think we've got enough to make the top six this year at least as we stand. A lot will hinge on the striker they (hopefully) bring in.

    I don't think our strikers have enough goals and we're going to be too prone to conceding silly goals. I think it'll be like that period under Slade then Robinson where we drew a lot of games 1-1 we should have won after being 1-0 up and not killing teams off.

    Fingers crossed for it to look different on Friday.
    20 goal strikers are very hard to come by. 20 goal strikers that are available a month into the season are even rarer. Add to that we have a restrictive salary cap to contend with even if such a striker was available and I really wouldn’t be getting any hopes up in terms of who we might bring in. 
  • Elthamaddick
    Elthamaddick Posts: 15,811
    2 CB's now required, 1 perm + 1 loan
    1 CF prem loan striker
    1 wide player (if possible)

    going to be a long week
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,477
    Cafc43v3r said:
    SoundAsa£ said:
    Moo said:
    Need to get Phillips out the door to free up some wages. 
    Well......we don’t know what Thomas is prepared to lay out in the first instance?
    You seem to be talking as though we have to live the all to familiar ‘hand to mouth existence’ that we have for many a year.
    Without actually knowing the financial situation right now, I would like to think that we are in a considerably better situation than we have been of late and where as parting with Philips would indeed free up some money for salaries, do we really ‘need’ to do that......I’m not sure?
    We can only spend what we are allowed, it doesn't matter how much Thomas can or wants to spend. 
    I’m well aware of that, I am only suggesting that we no longer need to ‘panic’ to find the money  ..........for want of a better word.
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    IBWT. 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,627
    se9addick said:
    MartinCAFC said:
    Unless Bowyer & Gallen can work some magic again by Friday I don't think we've got enough to make the top six this year at least as we stand. A lot will hinge on the striker they (hopefully) bring in.

    I don't think our strikers have enough goals and we're going to be too prone to conceding silly goals. I think it'll be like that period under Slade then Robinson where we drew a lot of games 1-1 we should have won after being 1-0 up and not killing teams off.

    Fingers crossed for it to look different on Friday.
    20 goal strikers are very hard to come by. 20 goal strikers that are available a month into the season are even rarer. Add to that we have a restrictive salary cap to contend with even if such a striker was available and I really wouldn’t be getting any hopes up in terms of who we might bring in. 
    Basically what I've been saying for weeks. Lucky in a way that we signed Bogle, but I think we still need a nippy striker to play alongside one of our "big" front men. Any Robbie Keane's out there  ?
  • grumpyaddick
    grumpyaddick Posts: 6,596
    We need at least one steady Eddie and two hooray Henrys. 
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    SoundAsa£ said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    SoundAsa£ said:
    Moo said:
    Need to get Phillips out the door to free up some wages. 
    Well......we don’t know what Thomas is prepared to lay out in the first instance?
    You seem to be talking as though we have to live the all to familiar ‘hand to mouth existence’ that we have for many a year.
    Without actually knowing the financial situation right now, I would like to think that we are in a considerably better situation than we have been of late and where as parting with Philips would indeed free up some money for salaries, do we really ‘need’ to do that......I’m not sure?
    We can only spend what we are allowed, it doesn't matter how much Thomas can or wants to spend. 
    I’m well aware of that, I am only suggesting that we no longer need to ‘panic’ to find the money  ..........for want of a better word.
    That's not the issue though. I don't think anyone believes we are panicking to find the money, but finding it isn't the problem so what Thomas is prepared to lay out is completely irrelevant. He might be interested in spending 2mil each on 5 players, but unless they are on peanuts or we shift a few it doesn't matter. 

    I think the point with Phillips is that he is one player who at this moment in time is a complete waste of a wage. You can argue the same point with a few others, but the goalkeeper is the least likely position to be injured/rotated etc. So although it's only circa 2k a week, it's 2k a week we could use on a CB for example. So to answer the question, do we really need to do that, I think the answer is definitely yes. 
  • Richard J
    Richard J Posts: 8,032
    Paul Smyth of QPR linked by West London Sport. 

    A striker. 
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    1 in 20 for Wycombe last season, that will go down well!

    No thanks. 

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