I see the Jan window as potentially being better personally.
it's hard this window in tempting away the best of league one, top players from clubs with similar aims won't see a move with the wage cap as worthwhile financially or for family reasons, but say for example we're sat in 4th with a good gap below and a few points from above, then the best of those "also ran" clubs (Donny, the dons etc) might see our position and think they've got a much much better chance of getting to the champ.
We're 4th, Pompey are 8th cheeky bid for a player we might fancy etc.
I think there will be next to 0 movement in L1 in January. Every club will already be at the cap and not able to sign anyone else.
That’s my problem with it, it’s not really a “cap”, more of a required level of spending.
Just had a thought ...... with the wage cap limit reportedly close, any whisper of potential moves for any of our existing squad?
There may be clubs interested in our fringe players or those who may not get much playing time as the squad gets rebuilt. Would free up a little more wages margin under the wage cap.
An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips.
We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages. They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages. Maybe even pay a loan fee.
We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week. Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages. We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we?
Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher. Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.
If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.
BTW the cap isn't ageist either. You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like. You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
Is that definitely true, I thought it was only what we paid? So if we got a player on loan from say Stoke who is on 10k a week but they pay his wages he counts as 10k for our cap?
Yes, if Stoke paid all his wages then it wouldn't impact on our £2.5m ceiling as I understand it.
An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips.
We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages. They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages. Maybe even pay a loan fee.
We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week. Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages. We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we?
Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher. Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.
If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.
BTW the cap isn't ageist either. You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like. You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
That’s not true is it?
You could pay an U21 player 50k a week but you can’t pay a 22 year old that.
Not really as that would be £2.6m so that one player would bust your limit.
But you can pay one player as much as you like within the cap.
Additionally, if they were on £50k pw but signed last season then it would only count as £2k pw
An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips.
We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages. They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages. Maybe even pay a loan fee.
We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week. Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages. We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we?
I think that's a really good shout to be honest. I think the problem with Phillips is who is going to want him. Begovic didn't leave Bournemouth so doubt they'll be interested.
I'd even go further and let the team have Phillips on a free, doesn't make any difference to us if he's going to go for free next summer anyway, on the condition they loan us a player or two on the cheap.
All that time Charlton have spent training him etc over the years... you should want a return after putting the time and effort into him.
Of course I don't disagree. But we now find ourself in a position where Phillips could be sat in our reserves all season and then leave for free next summer, or possibly for a very small fee in January (which would cost us in unnecessary wages until then anyway). Or we could give Phillips to a club on a free on the condition they loan us say 2 players who are on a combined 15k. It's a way round the wage cap and although appears we got nothing for Phillips, that's not quite true.
Fully agree he needs to go especially if he wont play. Just feel we should command a fee if we can even if its cut price.
Dillon isn't refusing to play, it's Bowyer choosing to not pick him
An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips.
We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages. They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages. Maybe even pay a loan fee.
We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week. Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages. We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we?
I think that's a really good shout to be honest. I think the problem with Phillips is who is going to want him. Begovic didn't leave Bournemouth so doubt they'll be interested.
I'd even go further and let the team have Phillips on a free, doesn't make any difference to us if he's going to go for free next summer anyway, on the condition they loan us a player or two on the cheap.
All that time Charlton have spent training him etc over the years... you should want a return after putting the time and effort into him.
Of course I don't disagree. But we now find ourself in a position where Phillips could be sat in our reserves all season and then leave for free next summer, or possibly for a very small fee in January (which would cost us in unnecessary wages until then anyway). Or we could give Phillips to a club on a free on the condition they loan us say 2 players who are on a combined 15k. It's a way round the wage cap and although appears we got nothing for Phillips, that's not quite true.
Fully agree he needs to go especially if he wont play. Just feel we should command a fee if we can even if its cut price.
I'd usually agree but I think you also need to consider the benefit of getting around the cap. Would you rather get say 1.5mil for Phillips and then not be able to do anything with that money, or 2 players on loan on 15k with the loaning team paying all the wages. It's half the value on the face of it but more beneficial overall.
An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips.
We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages. They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages. Maybe even pay a loan fee.
We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week. Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages. We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we?
Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher. Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.
If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.
BTW the cap isn't ageist either. You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like. You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
Yeah so we are paying Phillips, for cap purposes, £2k and aren't paying the loan anything.
Why don't we loan out our entire first team and loan back in a better one from the Premier League or Championship, with the parent club footing the wage bill of their own players?
An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips.
We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages. They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages. Maybe even pay a loan fee.
We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week. Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages. We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we?
Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher. Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.
If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.
BTW the cap isn't ageist either. You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like. You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
That’s not true is it?
You could pay an U21 player 50k a week but you can’t pay a 22 year old that.
Not really as that would be £2.6m so that one player would bust your limit.
But you can pay one player as much as you like within the cap.
Additionally, if they were on £50k pw but signed last season then it would only count as £2k pw
I thought the U21 players were exempt from the cap though - anything you pay them isn't counted towards it?
Why don't we loan out our entire first team and loan back in a better one from the Premier League or Championship, with the parent club footing the wage bill of their own players?
It's brilliant!
can only have five loans in the 18 man squad and only 8 in total.
An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips.
We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages. They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages. Maybe even pay a loan fee.
We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week. Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages. We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we?
Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher. Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.
If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.
BTW the cap isn't ageist either. You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like. You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
That’s not true is it?
You could pay an U21 player 50k a week but you can’t pay a 22 year old that.
Not really as that would be £2.6m so that one player would bust your limit.
But you can pay one player as much as you like within the cap.
Additionally, if they were on £50k pw but signed last season then it would only count as £2k pw
An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips.
We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages. They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages. Maybe even pay a loan fee.
We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week. Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages. We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we?
Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher. Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.
If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.
BTW the cap isn't ageist either. You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like. You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
Is that definitely true, I thought it was only what we paid? So if we got a player on loan from say Stoke who is on 10k a week but they pay his wages he counts as 10k for our cap?
Yes, if Stoke paid all his wages then it wouldn't impact on our £2.5m ceiling as I understand it.
I believe it was said that the rule states that players under the age of 21 on 01/01/2020 are not included in the cap calculation. So they could be on £50k a week and it would not affect the £2.5m calculation.
Monies received from loan fees are also credited back against the cap.
From the EFL announcement: "any income generated from players going out on loan is deducted from the Club’s Salary Cap calculation."
So if you hit the limit of £2.5m then receive a loan fee of £500k then you have £500k more to spend on salaries.
Why don't we loan out our entire first team and loan back in a better one from the Premier League or Championship, with the parent club footing the wage bill of their own players?
An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips.
We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages. They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages. Maybe even pay a loan fee.
We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week. Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages. We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we?
I think that's a really good shout to be honest. I think the problem with Phillips is who is going to want him. Begovic didn't leave Bournemouth so doubt they'll be interested.
I'd even go further and let the team have Phillips on a free, doesn't make any difference to us if he's going to go for free next summer anyway, on the condition they loan us a player or two on the cheap.
All that time Charlton have spent training him etc over the years... you should want a return after putting the time and effort into him.
Only the EFL can get a club to the point where they are considering getting rid of a player for nothing just so it frees up £2k pw on wages.........and that club could buy a player for £1m+ if they wanted to.
Thanks Accrington, Burton, Walsall & all the other clubs that voted this stupid salary cap in.
An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips.
We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages. They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages. Maybe even pay a loan fee.
We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week. Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages. We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we?
I think that's a really good shout to be honest. I think the problem with Phillips is who is going to want him. Begovic didn't leave Bournemouth so doubt they'll be interested.
I'd even go further and let the team have Phillips on a free, doesn't make any difference to us if he's going to go for free next summer anyway, on the condition they loan us a player or two on the cheap.
All that time Charlton have spent training him etc over the years... you should want a return after putting the time and effort into him.
Of course I don't disagree. But we now find ourself in a position where Phillips could be sat in our reserves all season and then leave for free next summer, or possibly for a very small fee in January (which would cost us in unnecessary wages until then anyway). Or we could give Phillips to a club on a free on the condition they loan us say 2 players who are on a combined 15k. It's a way round the wage cap and although appears we got nothing for Phillips, that's not quite true.
Fully agree he needs to go especially if he wont play. Just feel we should command a fee if we can even if its cut price.
Dillon isn't refusing to play, it's Bowyer choosing to not pick him
Sorry meant as wont in play general. Either way its best he goes for both his and Charltons sake.
I really thought there would of been lots of clubs looking to take Phillips,does make me wonder why there seems not to be
Half decent keepers are 10 a penny in the championship and above, we've had loads on loan over the years and pretty much all of them were good enough, the likes of Steer, Amos, Etheridge, Alnwick etc.
An intresting scenario would be a swap loan deal involving Phillips.
We loan him to a championship team but pay 100% of his wages. They loan us a center half and pay 100% of their wages. Maybe even pay a loan fee.
We could then, potentially, have a player we need on 10k a week. Yes we would loose any potential transfer fee but it would give us much more head room on wages. We couldn't sell Philips and buy a center half of that quality could we?
Problem is Philips is an existing deal so his wages are calculated at the average of £2k PW even though they are probably higher. Same with Pearce, Williams, etc.
If you bring a "new" player in on loan or permanant then their full £10k or whatever is used when calculating the salary cap.
BTW the cap isn't ageist either. You can pay anyone of any age as much as you like. You just have to stay under £2.5m overall.
That’s not true is it?
You could pay an U21 player 50k a week but you can’t pay a 22 year old that.
Not really as that would be £2.6m so that one player would bust your limit.
But you can pay one player as much as you like within the cap.
Additionally, if they were on £50k pw but signed last season then it would only count as £2k pw
I thought the U21 players were exempt from the cap though - anything you pay them isn't counted towards it?
Maybe I've misunderstood it
No, you are correct. The cap only applies to players over the age of 21 on January 1st.
I see the Jan window as potentially being better personally.
it's hard this window in tempting away the best of league one, top players from clubs with similar aims won't see a move with the wage cap as worthwhile financially or for family reasons, but say for example we're sat in 4th with a good gap below and a few points from above, then the best of those "also ran" clubs (Donny, the dons etc) might see our position and think they've got a much much better chance of getting to the champ.
We're 4th, Pompey are 8th cheeky bid for a player we might fancy etc.
I think there will be next to 0 movement in L1 in January. Every club will already be at the cap and not able to sign anyone else.
That’s my problem with it, it’s not really a “cap”, more of a required level of spending.
Can understand the idea of a salary cap to prevent clubs overspending and putting themselves at risk. But it shouldn't be a fixed amount across the league. It should be proportionate to the club's annual turnover - maybe with an upper and lower limit. It would allow bigger clubs to spend more as they should have more resources and are therefore less likely to be at risk.
I see the Jan window as potentially being better personally.
it's hard this window in tempting away the best of league one, top players from clubs with similar aims won't see a move with the wage cap as worthwhile financially or for family reasons, but say for example we're sat in 4th with a good gap below and a few points from above, then the best of those "also ran" clubs (Donny, the dons etc) might see our position and think they've got a much much better chance of getting to the champ.
We're 4th, Pompey are 8th cheeky bid for a player we might fancy etc.
I think there will be next to 0 movement in L1 in January. Every club will already be at the cap and not able to sign anyone else.
That’s my problem with it, it’s not really a “cap”, more of a required level of spending.
Good point 🤦🏻♂️
It also shits all over the EFL's own argument that the piramid is vital for supplying players to the premier league and national team. If your 22 and not fully developed to be a 1st team player in league 1 or 2 your screwed.
Why would anyone have a 22 year old that's not good enough to be a first team regular, waste of wages. Even if they are only on £800 a week or what ever.
I really thought there would of been lots of clubs looking to take Phillips,does make me wonder why there seems not to be
Half decent keepers are 10 a penny in the championship and above, we've had loads on loan over the years and pretty much all of them were good enough, the likes of Steer, Amos, Etheridge, Alnwick etc.
i think Phillips is a bit better than "half decent".
Need to get Phillips out the door to free up some wages.
Well......we don’t know what Thomas is prepared to lay out in the first instance? You seem to be talking as though we have to live the all to familiar ‘hand to mouth existence’ that we have for many a year. Without actually knowing the financial situation right now, I would like to think that we are in a considerably better situation than we have been of late and where as parting with Philips would indeed free up some money for salaries, do we really ‘need’ to do that......I’m not sure?
Unless Bowyer & Gallen can work some magic again by Friday I don't think we've got enough to make the top six this year at least as we stand. A lot will hinge on the striker they (hopefully) bring in.
I don't think our strikers have enough goals and we're going to be too prone to conceding silly goals. I think it'll be like that period under Slade then Robinson where we drew a lot of games 1-1 we should have won after being 1-0 up and not killing teams off.
Fingers crossed for it to look different on Friday.
Need to get Phillips out the door to free up some wages.
Well......we don’t know what Thomas is prepared to lay out in the first instance? You seem to be talking as though we have to live the all to familiar ‘hand to mouth existence’ that we have for many a year. Without actually knowing the financial situation right now, I would like to think that we are in a considerably better situation than we have been of late and where as parting with Philips would indeed free up some money for salaries, do we really ‘need’ to do that......I’m not sure?
We can only spend what we are allowed, it doesn't matter how much Thomas can or wants to spend.
Unless Bowyer & Gallen can work some magic again by Friday I don't think we've got enough to make the top six this year at least as we stand. A lot will hinge on the striker they (hopefully) bring in.
I don't think our strikers have enough goals and we're going to be too prone to conceding silly goals. I think it'll be like that period under Slade then Robinson where we drew a lot of games 1-1 we should have won after being 1-0 up and not killing teams off.
Fingers crossed for it to look different on Friday.
20 goal strikers are very hard to come by. 20 goal strikers that are available a month into the season are even rarer. Add to that we have a restrictive salary cap to contend with even if such a striker was available and I really wouldn’t be getting any hopes up in terms of who we might bring in.
Need to get Phillips out the door to free up some wages.
Well......we don’t know what Thomas is prepared to lay out in the first instance? You seem to be talking as though we have to live the all to familiar ‘hand to mouth existence’ that we have for many a year. Without actually knowing the financial situation right now, I would like to think that we are in a considerably better situation than we have been of late and where as parting with Philips would indeed free up some money for salaries, do we really ‘need’ to do that......I’m not sure?
We can only spend what we are allowed, it doesn't matter how much Thomas can or wants to spend.
I’m well aware of that, I am only suggesting that we no longer need to ‘panic’ to find the money ..........for want of a better word.
Unless Bowyer & Gallen can work some magic again by Friday I don't think we've got enough to make the top six this year at least as we stand. A lot will hinge on the striker they (hopefully) bring in.
I don't think our strikers have enough goals and we're going to be too prone to conceding silly goals. I think it'll be like that period under Slade then Robinson where we drew a lot of games 1-1 we should have won after being 1-0 up and not killing teams off.
Fingers crossed for it to look different on Friday.
20 goal strikers are very hard to come by. 20 goal strikers that are available a month into the season are even rarer. Add to that we have a restrictive salary cap to contend with even if such a striker was available and I really wouldn’t be getting any hopes up in terms of who we might bring in.
Basically what I've been saying for weeks. Lucky in a way that we signed Bogle, but I think we still need a nippy striker to play alongside one of our "big" front men. Any Robbie Keane's out there ?
Comments
That’s my problem with it, it’s not really a “cap”, more of a required level of spending.
There may be clubs interested in our fringe players or those who may not get much playing time as the squad gets rebuilt.
Would free up a little more wages margin under the wage cap.
Any of those rumours?
But you can pay one player as much as you like within the cap.
Additionally, if they were on £50k pw but signed last season then it would only count as £2k pw
Why don't we loan out our entire first team and loan back in a better one from the Premier League or Championship, with the parent club footing the wage bill of their own players?
It's brilliant!
Maybe I've misunderstood it
and yes, I know you weren't being 100% serious
Monies received from loan fees are also credited back against the cap.
From the EFL announcement:
"any income generated from players going out on loan is deducted from the Club’s Salary Cap calculation."
So if you hit the limit of £2.5m then receive a loan fee of £500k then you have £500k more to spend on salaries.
Thanks Accrington, Burton, Walsall & all the other clubs that voted this stupid salary cap in.
Why would anyone have a 22 year old that's not good enough to be a first team regular, waste of wages. Even if they are only on £800 a week or what ever.
Permission to wet the bed sir!!
You seem to be talking as though we have to live the all to familiar ‘hand to mouth existence’ that we have for many a year.
Without actually knowing the financial situation right now, I would like to think that we are in a considerably better situation than we have been of late and where as parting with Philips would indeed free up some money for salaries, do we really ‘need’ to do that......I’m not sure?
I don't think our strikers have enough goals and we're going to be too prone to conceding silly goals. I think it'll be like that period under Slade then Robinson where we drew a lot of games 1-1 we should have won after being 1-0 up and not killing teams off.
Fingers crossed for it to look different on Friday.
1 CF prem loan striker
1 wide player (if possible)
going to be a long week