So we're only getting three senior players in. Brilliant. This season is gonna be a wash.
Behave. We at least have a club and we are financially sound. Count our blessings.
Three senior players along the spine would be significant for our future.
Phillips, Doughty, Mathews, Cullen, New striker, New CH. Bows has difficult decisions to make.
Its a shame that Phillips is already on a Contract with us
I presume if we sell him (to free up say his £5k p/w contract) that doesnt actually free up the £5k for someone else because he's exempt from the Salary Cap
So we're only getting three senior players in. Brilliant. This season is gonna be a wash.
Behave. We at least have a club and we are financially sound. Count our blessings.
Three senior players along the spine would be significant for our future.
Phillips, Doughty, Mathews, Cullen, New striker, New CH. Bows has difficult decisions to make.
Its a shame that Phillips is already on a Contract with us
I presume if we sell him (to free up say his £5k p/w contract) that doesnt actually free up the £5k for someone else because he's exempt from the Salary Cap
The cap is 2.5 mil as I understand it. that can be distributed among the players however the club deems to be appropriate. I may be wrong but it’s not 2k Max per player as I understand it.
You're right, the £2k figure is just the average based on the allowed squad size. Having a few u21's on the books means with have a little bit of room to offer more I suspect
Not entirely convinced we would see any of the initial £5mil loan fee. As it’s a loan, it’s not a sale and therefore not a sell on.
If West Brom avoid relegation they will effectively be buying him for £13mil. The amount we would end up getting would essentially be £2.3mil.
£13mil - £1.5mil = £11.5mil 20% of profit = £2.3mil
That would mean we would get a total of £3.8mil whereas Huddersfield, after 18 months, would have got £14.2mil including a £5mil loan fee.
If he joins them on loan, and they go down, that could actually work in our favour, especially if he does well in the Premier League. Huddersfield could then sell him for more than £13mil and say get £20mil for him, plus the £5mil loan fee they would have received too.
West Ham mate reckons Frederick's poor form and injury record means Johnson move unlikely.
I am sure Phillips does count as a maximum of, I think, £2k p/w meaning we can bring in another player should he leave. Otherwise you’re saying that the only players that count in the cap are the ones we have signed so far, which is wrong.
I think it could well be the case mate... e.g. if Pearce is on £4k he doesnt count towards the cap FOR NOW!!
With his deal up in the summer if we want to offer him a new deal we'd only be able to offer him a deal that falls in line with the cap - Same with Doughty, we can offer him what he wants for now as he's an U21 but the moment he gets too old (if god forbid we're still at this level) then that salary impacts the rest of the squad
Do you see this cap lasting? It’s a good idea, but personally think in the footballing world, it’s far too low in order to compete and then survive enough in the Championship when clubs get promoted.
£4mil a year is still around £4k a week for 19-20 senior pros. Just makes it that little bit more level.
Yes its certainly needed, especially at this level and actually in some ways it would be great if we saw a top six of Accrington | Charlton | Rochdale | Fleetwood | Portsmouth | Crewe
Would mean that the cap has rightfully created a more level playing field when Football shouldnt be dictated by how rich you are as a side
The trouble is its also come in at the wrong level first - FIFA / UEFA need to grow a pair and force every league to implement something starting at the top and then going down... Like you say its great having something in place now but then when we go into the Championship we'll potentially need a massive overhaul of the squad again just to try and survive!! - Get relegated because the gamble didnt pay off and the reverse all but happens again where we maybe have to start selling or releasing players (out of contract) where we already fall foul of the cap
But surely richer teams should be allowed to spend more if they're genuinely richer due to having more fans and thus more income?
If Accrington average 3,000 supporters and Sunderland 30,000, it seems bizarre that both would be restricted to spending the same amount. With the same wage bill, Sunderland could end up possibly stuck in L1, but making a massive profit for the owner.
Thats fine but surely thats covered by the fact that we can spend as much as we want on a player... e.g. Can Accrington really be offering the same sort of transfer fee we'd be offering for Ronnie Schwartz for example
Thats where we'll keep the slight advantage and is no doubt why the League wont become a level playing field like what I "predicted" in the first line.
And I completely agree with that, if they introduced a limit on transfer fees that could be spent across the league, well that would be ridiculous
It was released on August 7th, so we’d been relegated already but were obviously under embargo.
The salary for Pearce, and any other player under contract, is honoured but is calculated at the agreed divisional average. It doesn’t actually say what that is, but assume £2-2.5k per week depending on squad size. Also depends on whether the rest of the division are actually at the full salary cap level.
One line that stuck out for me and which could help:
Moving forwards, Clubs that are relegated will be permitted to cap all contracts at the divisional average prior to the Club’s relegation until those contracts expire.
That to me reads that we could bring in players on the average salary for L1 as at last season, not this one. Could be useful if, as I assume, the average was more than this year.
Actual cap before any points deduction risk is £2.625m it just means you have to pay a fine of £375k which is then distributed to the other teams who stayed within the cap. A good set of lawyers will find areas of grey to operate in so that bigger teams can pay over the odds here. Even something like basic wages of 2k a week but offering the top players £1m per player if you make it to round 2 of the cup falls outside of the wage cap rules.
Salary Caps work but only with no promotion or relegation, it means the division is a level playing field but it also means retention of players is almost impossible longer term so expect huge turn over of players every season, losing your best young players more cheaply and dragging the wages of players down over time. Basically top players will always earn big money, and good kids will be paid well. The middle is going to get more and more squeezed. But you could easily have a bad run with injuries and find yourself relegated... it offers financial security but at the risk of maintaining the status quo the bottom two leagues are being split off. Good luck any team being promoted this season to the Champ.
That said when the fans are allowed back in we should hopefully see these cap limits loosened somewhat.
And Matthews for me, need a few older heads/pro's in that back 4/5
I am sure Phillips does count as a maximum of, I think, £2k p/w meaning we can bring in another player should he leave. Otherwise you’re saying that the only players that count in the cap are the ones we have signed so far, which is wrong.
I think it could well be the case mate... e.g. if Pearce is on £4k he doesnt count towards the cap FOR NOW!!
With his deal up in the summer if we want to offer him a new deal we'd only be able to offer him a deal that falls in line with the cap - Same with Doughty, we can offer him what he wants for now as he's an U21 but the moment he gets too old (if god forbid we're still at this level) then that salary impacts the rest of the squad
Do you see this cap lasting? It’s a good idea, but personally think in the footballing world, it’s far too low in order to compete and then survive enough in the Championship when clubs get promoted.
£4mil a year is still around £4k a week for 19-20 senior pros. Just makes it that little bit more level.
Yes its certainly needed, especially at this level and actually in some ways it would be great if we saw a top six of Accrington | Charlton | Rochdale | Fleetwood | Portsmouth | Crewe
Would mean that the cap has rightfully created a more level playing field when Football shouldnt be dictated by how rich you are as a side
The trouble is its also come in at the wrong level first - FIFA / UEFA need to grow a pair and force every league to implement something starting at the top and then going down... Like you say its great having something in place now but then when we go into the Championship we'll potentially need a massive overhaul of the squad again just to try and survive!! - Get relegated because the gamble didnt pay off and the reverse all but happens again where we maybe have to start selling or releasing players (out of contract) where we already fall foul of the cap
But surely richer teams should be allowed to spend more if they're genuinely richer due to having more fans and thus more income?
If Accrington average 3,000 supporters and Sunderland 30,000, it seems bizarre that both would be restricted to spending the same amount. With the same wage bill, Sunderland could end up possibly stuck in L1, but making a massive profit for the owner.
Thats fine but surely thats covered by the fact that we can spend as much as we want on a player... e.g. Can Accrington really be offering the same sort of transfer fee we'd be offering for Ronnie Schwartz for example
Thats where we'll keep the slight advantage and is no doubt why the League wont become a level playing field like what I "predicted" in the first line.
And I completely agree with that, if they introduced a limit on transfer fees that could be spent across the league, well that would be ridiculous
The better players commanding higher transfer fees will command bigger wages as well
Pointless being able to splash £1m on a player as they'll look at the £2k (or whatever) wage and laugh....
I am sure Phillips does count as a maximum of, I think, £2k p/w meaning we can bring in another player should he leave. Otherwise you’re saying that the only players that count in the cap are the ones we have signed so far, which is wrong.
I think it could well be the case mate... e.g. if Pearce is on £4k he doesnt count towards the cap FOR NOW!!
With his deal up in the summer if we want to offer him a new deal we'd only be able to offer him a deal that falls in line with the cap - Same with Doughty, we can offer him what he wants for now as he's an U21 but the moment he gets too old (if god forbid we're still at this level) then that salary impacts the rest of the squad
Do you see this cap lasting? It’s a good idea, but personally think in the footballing world, it’s far too low in order to compete and then survive enough in the Championship when clubs get promoted.
£4mil a year is still around £4k a week for 19-20 senior pros. Just makes it that little bit more level.
Yes its certainly needed, especially at this level and actually in some ways it would be great if we saw a top six of Accrington | Charlton | Rochdale | Fleetwood | Portsmouth | Crewe
Would mean that the cap has rightfully created a more level playing field when Football shouldnt be dictated by how rich you are as a side
The trouble is its also come in at the wrong level first - FIFA / UEFA need to grow a pair and force every league to implement something starting at the top and then going down... Like you say its great having something in place now but then when we go into the Championship we'll potentially need a massive overhaul of the squad again just to try and survive!! - Get relegated because the gamble didnt pay off and the reverse all but happens again where we maybe have to start selling or releasing players (out of contract) where we already fall foul of the cap
That's all and well good but doesn't work if it's only our league. The playing field will be levelled out in Leagues 1 and 2, but I think you'll just see the gap widening elsewhere. Any club promoted from League 1 is going to struggle to stay in the championship. Relegated teams from the championship will have to make big changes to stay within the rules. I don't dislike the concept of the cap, but the big issue is actually what clubs are paying in the top two divisions. So they are approaching it wrong IMO.
And why should anyone be bailing out these clubs. Clubs don't meet their Tax obligations when they go bust, but players wages are protected. Clubs don't bother paying small businesses when they go bust, but players are protected. Clubs don't pay their NI contributions when they go bust, yet players get their contracts honoured in full.
Very few clubs in L1 should be paying more than £3 million in wages. Sunderland are the other end of the spectrum. The EFL are not going about anything in the wrong way. The clubs have agreed or not agreed in their respective divisions. There are so many basket cases in the championship, if a well run club get's promoted from L1 I'm more confident now that teams like Barnsley, Rotherham and Luton can compete. At £2,000 a week vitually all players in L1 are paid way above their economic value. With every club and player operating in the same market, quality will be available. The base logic is when virtually all lower league clubs are facing bankruptcy why should players be protected and offered contracts with utter disconnect to their value and productivity?
Once the window closes I suspect there will be a lot of free agents still available, and they may be prepared to accept low wages to stay in the game
If I was an unemployed footballer, I'd be very concerned about sitting out the next few months, as things are unlikely to get better financially for a while
I am sure Phillips does count as a maximum of, I think, £2k p/w meaning we can bring in another player should he leave. Otherwise you’re saying that the only players that count in the cap are the ones we have signed so far, which is wrong.
I think it could well be the case mate... e.g. if Pearce is on £4k he doesnt count towards the cap FOR NOW!!
With his deal up in the summer if we want to offer him a new deal we'd only be able to offer him a deal that falls in line with the cap - Same with Doughty, we can offer him what he wants for now as he's an U21 but the moment he gets too old (if god forbid we're still at this level) then that salary impacts the rest of the squad
Do you see this cap lasting? It’s a good idea, but personally think in the footballing world, it’s far too low in order to compete and then survive enough in the Championship when clubs get promoted.
£4mil a year is still around £4k a week for 19-20 senior pros. Just makes it that little bit more level.
Yes its certainly needed, especially at this level and actually in some ways it would be great if we saw a top six of Accrington | Charlton | Rochdale | Fleetwood | Portsmouth | Crewe
Would mean that the cap has rightfully created a more level playing field when Football shouldnt be dictated by how rich you are as a side
The trouble is its also come in at the wrong level first - FIFA / UEFA need to grow a pair and force every league to implement something starting at the top and then going down... Like you say its great having something in place now but then when we go into the Championship we'll potentially need a massive overhaul of the squad again just to try and survive!! - Get relegated because the gamble didnt pay off and the reverse all but happens again where we maybe have to start selling or releasing players (out of contract) where we already fall foul of the cap
That's all and well good but doesn't work if it's only our league. The playing field will be levelled out in Leagues 1 and 2, but I think you'll just see the gap widening elsewhere. Any club promoted from League 1 is going to struggle to stay in the championship. Relegated teams from the championship will have to make big changes to stay within the rules. I don't dislike the concept of the cap, but the big issue is actually what clubs are paying in the top two divisions. So they are approaching it wrong IMO.
And why should anyone be bailing out these clubs. Clubs don't meet their Tax obligations when they go bust, but players wages are protected. Clubs don't bother paying small businesses when they go bust, but players are protected. Clubs don't pay their NI contributions when they go bust, yet players get their contracts honoured in full.
Very few clubs in L1 should be paying more than £3 million in wages. Sunderland are the other end of the spectrum. The EFL are not going about anything in the wrong way. The clubs have agreed or not agreed in their respective divisions. There are so many basket cases in the championship, if a well run club get's promoted from L1 I'm more confident now that teams like Barnsley, Rotherham and Luton can compete. At £2,000 a week vitually all players in L1 are paid way above their economic value. With every club and player operating in the same market, quality will be available. The base logic is when virtually all lower league clubs are facing bankruptcy why should players be protected and offered contracts with utter disconnect to their value and productivity?
Completely disagree. You go on to contradict yourself by saying "there are so many basket cases in the championship". So why introduce a salary cap in leagues 1 and 2 but not in the championship? Do you really think 2k a week is above their economic value? I don't, not when you take into account the wages at the top 2 leagues. And like I said takes away the incentive for players to play first team football. When someone like Albie Morgan comes under the cap, why play in League 1 for 2k a week when he can play for a U23 championship club on quadruple that salary.
Once the window closes I suspect there will be a lot of free agents still available, and they may be prepared to accept low wages to stay in the game
If I was an unemployed footballer, I'd be very concerned about sitting out the next few months, as things are unlikely to get better financially for a while
Would be certainly a good idea to have a gap between our maximum wage and the cap limit just in case we can pick up anyone this way
Unless of course Bowyer and Gallen have already looked through that list and dont think its worth doing
I expect that Matthews is still the preferred option but if as rumoured/believed his agent has started playing silly buggers about wages etc. Bowyer/Gallen are making it clear that we are absolutely not going to be held hostage and can (and will) explore other options.
Letting it go public also serves to let others out there know that they don't want to get too ambitious in trying to wrangle high wages as not even established players are being catered to, let alone prospective ones.
I expect that Matthews is still the preferred option but if as rumoured/believed his agent has started playing silly buggers about wages etc. Bowyer/Gallen are making it clear that we are absolutely not going to be held hostage and can (and will) explore other options.
Letting it go public also serves to let others out there know that they don't want to get too ambitious in trying to wrangle high wages as not even established players are being catered to, let alone prospective ones.
I expect that Matthews is still the preferred option but if as rumoured/believed his agent has started playing silly buggers about wages etc. Bowyer/Gallen are making it clear that we are absolutely not going to be held hostage and can (and will) explore other options.
Letting it go public also serves to let others out there know that they don't want to get too ambitious in trying to wrangle high wages as not even established players are being catered to, let alone prospective ones.
Or perhaps there is a better option ?
No way will there be a better L1 option than Matthews, and he (and his agent) know it!
Also would be good if we could use this discussion to discuss potential players only referencing the salary cap of relevant. Several times has this digressed into the mechanics of the salary cap.
It's a game. Matthews Vs any right back loan except the fella from Norwich is a no brainer.
Matthews is quality, proven last year with us! A loan signing is always a gamble.
Only works if we are signing someone new ( also a gamble Vs a loan)
The need to discuss salary cap Vs a sure thing is null and void.
Whilst its difficult with the Salary Cap its also important that we try to build a solid squad so Gallen and Bowyer arent forced to rebuild every summer
You won't find a better defensive RB than Matthews. Maybe Bowyer fancies a more attacking one? Tbh if be surprised if Matthews isn't his priority though
Comments
Thats where we'll keep the slight advantage and is no doubt why the League wont become a level playing field like what I "predicted" in the first line.
And I completely agree with that, if they introduced a limit on transfer fees that could be spent across the league, well that would be ridiculous
https://www.efl.com/news/2020/august/squad-salary-caps-introduced-in-league-one-and-league-two/
Just to clarify a few points above:
It was released on August 7th, so we’d been relegated already but were obviously under embargo.
The salary for Pearce, and any other player under contract, is honoured but is calculated at the agreed divisional average. It doesn’t actually say what that is, but assume £2-2.5k per week depending on squad size. Also depends on whether the rest of the division are actually at the full salary cap level.
One line that stuck out for me and which could help:
Moving forwards, Clubs that are relegated will be permitted to cap all contracts at the divisional average prior to the Club’s relegation until those contracts expire.
That to me reads that we could bring in players on the average salary for L1 as at last season, not this one. Could be useful if, as I assume, the average was more than this year.
Salary Caps work but only with no promotion or relegation, it means the division is a level playing field but it also means retention of players is almost impossible longer term so expect huge turn over of players every season, losing your best young players more cheaply and dragging the wages of players down over time. Basically top players will always earn big money, and good kids will be paid well. The middle is going to get more and more squeezed. But you could easily have a bad run with injuries and find yourself relegated... it offers financial security but at the risk of maintaining the status quo the bottom two leagues are being split off. Good luck any team being promoted this season to the Champ.
That said when the fans are allowed back in we should hopefully see these cap limits loosened somewhat.
And Matthews for me, need a few older heads/pro's in that back 4/5
Pointless being able to splash £1m on a player as they'll look at the £2k (or whatever) wage and laugh....
Very few clubs in L1 should be paying more than £3 million in wages. Sunderland are the other end of the spectrum. The EFL are not going about anything in the wrong way. The clubs have agreed or not agreed in their respective divisions. There are so many basket cases in the championship, if a well run club get's promoted from L1 I'm more confident now that teams like Barnsley, Rotherham and Luton can compete. At £2,000 a week vitually all players in L1 are paid way above their economic value. With every club and player operating in the same market, quality will be available. The base logic is when virtually all lower league clubs are facing bankruptcy why should players be protected and offered contracts with utter disconnect to their value and productivity?
I would like an experienced right sided CB and a striker as well as Matthews.
Then three loans to bulk up the squad.
Can't think of two better people to wheel and deal under those constraints than Gallen and Bowyer. They've got form.
And anyhow, I reckon there will be wage caps across ALL leagues at some point, so we better get used to it.
If I was an unemployed footballer, I'd be very concerned about sitting out the next few months, as things are unlikely to get better financially for a while
Unless of course Bowyer and Gallen have already looked through that list and dont think its worth doing
Letting it go public also serves to let others out there know that they don't want to get too ambitious in trying to wrangle high wages as not even established players are being catered to, let alone prospective ones.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/89807/the-itk-thread#latest
No more frantically refreshing the Sandgaard thread, no more hunting through twitter for clues
Just feel empty inside
Kid could be the next Cafu but is only 20 and has had 2 long injuries already. I think at this moment in time, i'd prefer the reliability of Matthews.
There may be more affordable options though...
Matthews is quality, proven last year with us! A loan signing is always a gamble.
Only works if we are signing someone new ( also a gamble Vs a loan)
The need to discuss salary cap Vs a sure thing is null and void.