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Washington Redskins to change their name

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  • colthe3rd
    colthe3rd Posts: 8,486
    cafcfan said:
    Yes, of course Washington should change their name.  But I've always found it a bit odd that so many US sports teams align themselves with some living entity that usually has nothing to do with their sport.  The idea of a dolphin or whatever playing american football is plainly ridiculous.  Then there's the Memphis Grizzlies.  You have to drive about 1500 miles north west of Memphis to get anywhere near one!   Why didn't they choose an animal that actually resides in Tennessee, like the box turtle?

    It's an affectation the yanks need to get over.  And the fact that Cricket and Rugby League have copied this irksome and unnecessary concept rankles.  No, I've never seen a Rhino in Leeds either.
    I sort of understand your point but I'd counter with what's worse? Naming your team after an animal or using football/soccer team names? Real Salt Lake? DC United?
  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,491
    cafcfan said:
    Yes, of course Washington should change their name.  But I've always found it a bit odd that so many US sports teams align themselves with some living entity that usually has nothing to do with their sport.  The idea of a dolphin or whatever playing american football is plainly ridiculous.  Then there's the Memphis Grizzlies.  You have to drive about 1500 miles north west of Memphis to get anywhere near one!   Why didn't they choose an animal that actually resides in Tennessee, like the box turtle?

    It's an affectation the yanks need to get over.  And the fact that Cricket and Rugby League have copied this irksome and unnecessary concept rankles.  No, I've never seen a Rhino in Leeds either.
    In fairness 1,500 miles north west of Memphis probably gets you in the vicininty of Vancouver whihch is whether the Grizzlies were before the franchise was bought out. Of all the bemusing things in American sport, the idea that a club can just up sticks and find a whole new fanbase mystifies be most of all. 
  • SteveKielyCambridge
    SteveKielyCambridge Posts: 219
    Jints said:
    colthe3rd said:
    ValleyGary said:
    All a bit busy ain’t it? Ultimately, does it really matter. If people are that bothered about it, change it.
    Quite. The surprising thing is reading a load of people on this forum claiming it isn't offensive to native Americans. I'm willing to bet a large amount of money that they aren't American let alone Native American.
    Somewhere on the interweb, there's a group of native Americans arguing about whether Charlton fans should hate Palace or Millwall more. 
    I know this is a joke, and I try not to be one of those "it wasn't like that in my day" kind of people, but I do wonder if this is the way we are heading, where football authorities try to make it beyond the pale to sound off against opposing clubs/fans. The kind of banter between fan is not the norm in some other countries, where they take a more 'family friendly' approach and, more generally, 'banter' is being seen as a difficult thing in society.
    I might well be proven wrong, but football has already gone through a huge cultural change over the past 20/30 years and I have a feeling that we have a way to go yet.
  • Baldybonce
    Baldybonce Posts: 9,640
    cafcfan said:
    Yes, of course Washington should change their name.  But I've always found it a bit odd that so many US sports teams align themselves with some living entity that usually has nothing to do with their sport.  The idea of a dolphin or whatever playing american football is plainly ridiculous.  Then there's the Memphis Grizzlies.  You have to drive about 1500 miles north west of Memphis to get anywhere near one!   Why didn't they choose an animal that actually resides in Tennessee, like the box turtle?


    The Memphis box turtles. 

    I can’t think why didn’t choose that name either.
     o:) 
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,331
    They should stick to proper names. 

    Every team should be called United, City, Rangers or Rovers, and, in exceptional circumstances, County, but with certain exceptions: 
    • If they have ideas way above their station - Hotspur 
    • If they were the best team in the continent forty years ago, but have won nothing since - Forest 
    • If they're resigned never to win anything ever (other than in an ironic way) - Albion 
    • If everyone has simply forgotten what their real background is - Argyle 
    • If they just want to choose a name so that they end up with the same initials of a far better team - Alexandra 
    • If they fuck off somewhere else when their support dries up - Dons 
    • If they're determined to be named after one half of a comedy duo - Stanley 
    • If they're from a big city, and are desperate to be bigger than the team that's named after that city - Villa 
    • If they're from a town, and want to sound like they're staying there temporarily - Wanderers 
    • If they're massive - any day of the week
    • If they're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen - Athletic 
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
    cafcfan said:
    Yes, of course Washington should change their name.  But I've always found it a bit odd that so many US sports teams align themselves with some living entity that usually has nothing to do with their sport.  The idea of a dolphin or whatever playing american football is plainly ridiculous.  Then there's the Memphis Grizzlies.  You have to drive about 1500 miles north west of Memphis to get anywhere near one!   Why didn't they choose an animal that actually resides in Tennessee, like the box turtle?

    It's an affectation the yanks need to get over.  And the fact that Cricket and Rugby League have copied this irksome and unnecessary concept rankles.  No, I've never seen a Rhino in Leeds either.
    There are plenty of football clubs in this country with nicknames that are living entities and nothing to do with their sport.
  • randy andy
    randy andy Posts: 5,454
    There's quite a few people on this thread who need to read the definition below, especially those mentioning banning of the Charlton sword or local rivalries!

    Slippery slope fallacy

    You said that if we allow A to happen, then Z will eventually happen too, therefore A should not happen.

    The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.

  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,595
    Chizz said:
    They should stick to proper names. 

    Every team should be called United, City, Rangers or Rovers, and, in exceptional circumstances, County, but with certain exceptions: 
    • If they have ideas way above their station - Hotspur 
    • If they were the best team in the continent forty years ago, but have won nothing since - Forest 
    • If they're resigned never to win anything ever (other than in an ironic way) - Albion 
    • If everyone has simply forgotten what their real background is - Argyle 
    • If they just want to choose a name so that they end up with the same initials of a far better team - Alexandra 
    • If they fuck off somewhere else when their support dries up - Dons 
    • If they're determined to be named after one half of a comedy duo - Stanley 
    • If they're from a big city, and are desperate to be bigger than the team that's named after that city - Villa 
    • If they're from a town, and want to sound like they're staying there temporarily - Wanderers 
    • If they're massive - any day of the week
    • If they're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen - Athletic 
    If they’re a bunch of wankers - palace
  • hudson-son-son
    hudson-son-son Posts: 2,645
    I mean the fact there isn't the same level uproar about the Chiefs, than there is about the Redskins means the whataboutery is pretty pointless at this stage surely. Redskins is a racist term people putting bounties on native americans used to call their dead bodies so it's pretty crazy it has taken this long really.

    I know people want to jump on the PC gone mad argument, but in this case I don't really know how this one can be defended really.

    Also this is great, the idea that people at the games are "honouring" the tradition

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loK2DRBnk24
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,842
    DaveMehmet said:
    Chizz said:
    They should stick to proper names. 

    Every team should be called United, City, Rangers or Rovers, and, in exceptional circumstances, County, but with certain exceptions: 
    • If they have ideas way above their station - Hotspur 
    • If they were the best team in the continent forty years ago, but have won nothing since - Forest 
    • If they're resigned never to win anything ever (other than in an ironic way) - Albion 
    • If everyone has simply forgotten what their real background is - Argyle 
    • If they just want to choose a name so that they end up with the same initials of a far better team - Alexandra 
    • If they fuck off somewhere else when their support dries up - Dons 
    • If they're determined to be named after one half of a comedy duo - Stanley 
    • If they're from a big city, and are desperate to be bigger than the team that's named after that city - Villa 
    • If they're from a town, and want to sound like they're staying there temporarily - Wanderers 
    • If they're massive - any day of the week
    • If they're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen - Athletic 
    If they’re a bunch of wankers - palace

    If they think they're smarter than anyone else - Academical
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  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    May I suggest 'Washington Tumble Dryers'?
    Or 'Washington Washboards'?
    Or 'Washington Spin Speeds'?
    Or 'Washington Detergents' ?
    Or 'Washing Ton Overload'?
    Or Washington Pegs'?
  • SomervilleAddick
    SomervilleAddick Posts: 3,575
    cafckev said:
    And here lies the problem.

    everyone claiming it’s a good idea, and it’s about time etc. BUT does everyone actually know why they chose Redskins?

    It was chosen to honour the Native Americans who believed (and still do) that the colour Red was a colour that represented power and strength. To believed it how the power to protect them that they in fact used the colour to paint their faces when going into battle (war paint as we know it).

    So, far from being racist or anti something or other, it is in fact there honouring a minority group. The various organisation in the US who now represent Native Americans who said they see no problem with the name or logo and see it more as a honour of the memory.

    So rather than making their oppression, it reminds them of their history, power, beliefs and security!

    But, others seem to have forgotten the meaning of it, and are feeling offended on their behalf and objected.....and won
    Given that a good number of Native American organizations and tribes have been pushing this change for years, it’s not simply a matter of others getting offended on their behalf. I believe the National Congress for American Indians were the first to push for a name change in 1988 

    The story about what the name means is a myth. The owner at the time made no such claim. They changed their name from the Boston Braves to the Boston Redskins simply to avoid sharing the Braves name with the Boston Braves baseball team. 

    If it offends the people it’s supposed to celebrate, then it needs to go. 
  • sam3110
    sam3110 Posts: 21,257
    Should call themselves the Washington Circles, on account of it being one of the few places in USA with an abundance of "traffic circles" (roundabouts to you and me)
  • iaitch
    iaitch Posts: 10,225
    Bit like Swindon then?
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,763
    Big_Bad_World said:
    Weird how people think people are offended by others being offended, when they're clearly not ;)

    Another of those funny tactics deployed to rubbish any angle other than the one pushed by, mainly, white folk attempting to speak on behalf of a minority.

  • PaddyP17
    PaddyP17 Posts: 13,035
    Macronate said:

    Atlanta Falcons - many mice must have suffered at the claws of this bird of prey

    Arizona Cardinals - too Roman Catholic, what about all the other religions?

    Baltimore Ravens - known for shitting on the Tower of London, not good

    Buffalo Bills - what about all the 'Toms', 'Bobs' and 'Daves' out there?

    Carolina Panthers - scary big cat, too scary

    Chicago Bears - scary animals, too scary

    Cincinnati Bengals - offensive to lions

    Cleveland Browns - what about all the other colours?

    Dallas Cowboys - you can't just reference 'boys'. Where's the equality?

    Denver Broncos - wild horses are no longer allowed. Only tame horses please.

    Detroit Lions - offensive to tigers

    Green Bay Packers - an important part of the warehousing process but what about all the other functions?

    Houston Texans - too statist

    Indianapolis Colts - a young, uncastrated male horse!!! Disgusting.

    Jacksonville Jaguars - another scary big cat

    Kansas City Chiefs - denotes a leader or ruler of people, hierarchy isn't good

    Las Vegas Raiders - a person who attacks an enemy in their territory; a marauder. Just no

    LA Rams - too male orientated. Try LA Ewes.

    Miami Dolphins - countless schools of fish not happy

    Minnesota Vikings - no, Vikings were bad

    New England Patriots - can't be having any patriotic names

    New Orleans Saints - connected to Christianity and doesn't acknowledge other religions or evil people.

    New York Giants - offensive to small people

    New York Jets - offensive to helicopters

    Philadelphia Eagles - another bird of prey which upsets smaller mammals/animals

    Pittsburgh Steelers - named after Pittsburgh's steel industry. Difficult to know what to get offended about but i'll think of something

    San Francisco 49ers - name comes from the prospectors who arrived in Northern California in the 1849 gold rush. Lucky they didn't arrive in 1869.

    Seattle Seahawks - another name for an osprey, a large fish-eating raptor in the hawk family, too scary

    Tampa Bay Buccaneers - too piratey

    Tennessee Titans - another physically large reference, offensive to littluns

    Washington Redskins - no

    Anyone who's ever watched a Jags game can confirm that there is nothing scary about us at all :cry: 
  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 6,847
    Chizz said:
    They should stick to proper names. 

    Every team should be called United, City, Rangers or Rovers, and, in exceptional circumstances, County, but with certain exceptions: 
    • If they have ideas way above their station - Hotspur 
    • If they were the best team in the continent forty years ago, but have won nothing since - Forest 
    • If they're resigned never to win anything ever (other than in an ironic way) - Albion 
    • If everyone has simply forgotten what their real background is - Argyle 
    • If they just want to choose a name so that they end up with the same initials of a far better team - Alexandra 
    • If they fuck off somewhere else when their support dries up - Dons 
    • If they're determined to be named after one half of a comedy duo - Stanley 
    • If they're from a big city, and are desperate to be bigger than the team that's named after that city - Villa 
    • If they're from a town, and want to sound like they're staying there temporarily - Wanderers 
    • If they're massive - any day of the week
    • If they're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen - Athletic 
    Oldham?
  • Big William
    Big William Posts: 3,839
    Macronate said:
    New York Giants name under review after a complaint from one of CL's mods.
    I think the contentious thing is calling them a “Football team” after the last few seasons.
  • lordromford
    lordromford Posts: 7,782
    SporadicAddick said:
    Chizz said:
    They should stick to proper names. 

    Every team should be called United, City, Rangers or Rovers, and, in exceptional circumstances, County, but with certain exceptions: 
    • If they have ideas way above their station - Hotspur 
    • If they were the best team in the continent forty years ago, but have won nothing since - Forest 
    • If they're resigned never to win anything ever (other than in an ironic way) - Albion 
    • If everyone has simply forgotten what their real background is - Argyle 
    • If they just want to choose a name so that they end up with the same initials of a far better team - Alexandra 
    • If they fuck off somewhere else when their support dries up - Dons 
    • If they're determined to be named after one half of a comedy duo - Stanley 
    • If they're from a big city, and are desperate to be bigger than the team that's named after that city - Villa 
    • If they're from a town, and want to sound like they're staying there temporarily - Wanderers 
    • If they're massive - any day of the week
    • If they're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen - Athletic 
    Oldham?
    Wigan, judging by today’s result...
    .
  • limeygent
    limeygent Posts: 3,217
    A team name needs to be a little intimidating, doesn't it? I mean, the Delaware State teams are called "The Blue Hens". hard to take a team called "The Blue Hens" seriously if you were the oppo., I would think.
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  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,739
    https://sports.theonion.com/jerry-jones-changes-team-s-name-to-redskins-now-that-it-1844380517
  • Missed It
    Missed It Posts: 2,733
    limeygent said:
    A team name needs to be a little intimidating, doesn't it? I mean, the Delaware State teams are called "The Blue Hens". hard to take a team called "The Blue Hens" seriously if you were the oppo., I would think.

    The Wisconsin Badgers always made me laugh
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 28,845
    Crusader swords as a badge, in the 21st century? Oh come on .......
  • MrWalker
    MrWalker Posts: 4,106
    Missed It said:
    limeygent said:
    A team name needs to be a little intimidating, doesn't it? I mean, the Delaware State teams are called "The Blue Hens". hard to take a team called "The Blue Hens" seriously if you were the oppo., I would think.

    The Wisconsin Badgers always made me laugh

    I quite liked Wisconsin Beavers when I was there.
  • limeygent
    limeygent Posts: 3,217
    That's one tough hen.

  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,167
    Missed It said:
    limeygent said:
    Snyder is a crap owner and Fedex Field is a crap stadium. When I first came to the Washington area there was a ten-year wait for season tickets, and the only way to go to a game was to get lucky by being offered some spares.  Leaving aside the issues of "The Offended Industry" that we have over here, the NFL is becoming more and more irrelevant and are desperate to keep "bums in seats", as half-empty stadiums don't make good television, and as with the Prem, that is what's most important.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/12/18/how-u-s-marshals-used-redskins-tickets-to-bust-fugitives-in-1985-sting/

    The NFL is heading down the "Get woke, go broke" route.  There are tons of blue collar football fans who are sick of the disrespect to the national anthem shown by millionaire players.  People see it for the tiresome virtue signalling it really is.  Nobody ever acts to make real changes that address disparities and inequality.  The NFL still has a pitifully small number of black head coaches, less than 10% when 70% of players are black.
    I'm interested in this phrase. Are there any examples of this actually being a thing other than just wishful hatred from a vocal minority? I've seen it in a few places but I've never been able to find an example of a company actually going out of business because they took into account people's feelings. I remember I read it a lot when The Last of Us 2 was about to come out because that game had a gay female protagonist and a trans character, but it's also broken various sales records in its first few weeks of being released. The Redskins has been forced to 'go woke' to avoid going broke, as they would have lost their biggest sponsor if they hadn't. Has anyone actually gone broke by going woke?
  • Missed It
    Missed It Posts: 2,733
    Garrymanilow said:
    Missed It said:
    limeygent said:
    Snyder is a crap owner and Fedex Field is a crap stadium. When I first came to the Washington area there was a ten-year wait for season tickets, and the only way to go to a game was to get lucky by being offered some spares.  Leaving aside the issues of "The Offended Industry" that we have over here, the NFL is becoming more and more irrelevant and are desperate to keep "bums in seats", as half-empty stadiums don't make good television, and as with the Prem, that is what's most important.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/12/18/how-u-s-marshals-used-redskins-tickets-to-bust-fugitives-in-1985-sting/

    The NFL is heading down the "Get woke, go broke" route.  There are tons of blue collar football fans who are sick of the disrespect to the national anthem shown by millionaire players.  People see it for the tiresome virtue signalling it really is.  Nobody ever acts to make real changes that address disparities and inequality.  The NFL still has a pitifully small number of black head coaches, less than 10% when 70% of players are black.
    I'm interested in this phrase. Are there any examples of this actually being a thing other than just wishful hatred from a vocal minority? I've seen it in a few places but I've never been able to find an example of a company actually going out of business because they took into account people's feelings. I remember I read it a lot when The Last of Us 2 was about to come out because that game had a gay female protagonist and a trans character, but it's also broken various sales records in its first few weeks of being released. The Redskins has been forced to 'go woke' to avoid going broke, as they would have lost their biggest sponsor if they hadn't. Has anyone actually gone broke by going woke?

    When it comes to The Last of Us 2 you neglect to mention that it only broke previous sales records by a very small margin and then second week sales dropped by 85%.  Games stores were refusing to take returns and in the Far East they were reports of stores throwing the game in with 'buy two games and get the Last of Us 2 free' deals just to shift the stock that nobody wanted.  I think the major issue with LoU2 was not making the characters gay, Ellie was shown to be gay in the extra DLC of the original Last of Us and nobody minded.  Ellie was a popular, much loved character.  The backlash is largely against the treatment of another much loved character Joel, and the fact that you are forced to play as the character that smashed him to death with a golf club just a couple of hours in to the game.  People may moan about trans characters being forced in to the game but what really ruined it is the horrible writing, unsympathetic characters and the relentless slog of murdering that players have to endure. 

    Are business actually taking other people's feelings in to account?  Woke marketing was supposed to make them money, or at least stop them being boycotted by screeching twitter activists.  Gillette thought it would be a good idea to lecture men on how they should be better in a 90 second ad that smashed a whole in their brand index, turnover and share price.  The famous 'gender pay gap cafe' in Australia thought charging men 20% extra to compensate for the 'pay gap' was a good idea and then went out of business.  What sort of business model is primarily concerned with virtue signalling and alienates and antagonizes 50% of potential customers from the outset?  Entertainment is infested with it. Marvel comics are absolutely unreadable these days thanks to the idiot social activist writers they employ these days and I wouldn't be surprised if they were shut down within the next 18 months.   

    I'm waffling on but the NFL is treading a dodgy path.  Football is still a blue collar sport with a lot of blue collar fans.  There's a backlash coming against the wave of woke social justice and cancel culture that America is facing.  

    Personally, I think the Redskins nickname is not clever and it should have been dealt with calmly and sensibly years ago. 
       
      
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,219
    Inspired choice

    "Washington Football Team"
  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,739
    Henry Irving said:
    Inspired choice

    "Washington Football Team"
    Haha....that's what I thought. Apparently only an interim name until they come up with something more suitable.

    I wonder if they will go the other way.......The 'Washington Rosa Parks' or something?
  • The Red Robin
    The Red Robin Posts: 26,126
    DC Sentinels is the favourite. They've bought the domain. 

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