People saying ‘there’s nothing wrong with the substitutions’ are happy changing 40% of the outfield players within the space of 6 minutes?
Just reminds me of when it happens in a preseason friendly and the next 10-15 mins are pants cos it generally takes time for players to get into the game.
We had 13 mins to hold out when those subs were made. I’d generally be interested and open to know why someone would be happy with that decision making.
Dropped too many points this season, let alone during the 9 cup finals Due to sitting back and trying to soak up pressure!
To be 4 minutes away from a vital win, and go back allowing so much play in your own third is criminal
Do you think we have the quality to not sit back and soak up the pressure? Our team is poor, our attacking threats are barely existent, and we have a midfield that is more or less all coming back from injuries. Pratley at 35 has been our mainstay. I just think its the personnel that hampers us.
It isn't the sitting back, it is the lack of breaking with purpose pushing us deeper and deeper. When that happens the ball just keeps coming back and whilst the offensive team may not have great quality, if you throw enough darts at the dartboard one is more likely to be a triple twenty!
Does anyone on CL work for no wages, other than some charity work ?
As we got 7 points from 3 games in June when he was still under contract then that is a different matter but since Bosman, players have the power and some footballers will be selfish.
There should've been rules put into place so Taylor, Solly, and Fraser at Bournemouth plus others couldn't go on strike while still under contract.
I can't bring myself to hate Lyle as he was on a low wage for his amazing stats for cafc.
Lyle Taylor is a serial mover and this one will be lucrative. I can't hate him because his contract should've been sorted.
Good luck to Lee, next season at Birmingham or Bristol City or a similar size Championship club. His 100 games in charge, will stand him in good stead.
Chris Powell struggled big time after being messed about by Duchatelet and maybe Lee can have a squad where he won't have to park the bus in the last quarter of a match when winning.
I'm pretty sure we'd have paid him for July had he stayed on...........
Bowyer has my full support because whoever we get instead will be significantly worse.
Both Eddie Howe and Chris Wilder very nearly became our managers and if we had waited another week instead of Robinson we could've offered the Job to Gary Rowett; I believe he is doing a good job somewhere.
Lee Bowyer deserved a chance without the madness of the daily grind of not knowing who he should answer to ? Duchatelet, Nimer, and the chancer Southall to name just 3. Looks like after 100 games at cafc he can hold his head up and progress again in pastures new.
We will be a smaller club with Morgan, Davidson and Lapslie as our main players with maybe Pearce and Pratley as experience. It would be a chance for Johnnie Jackson to step up to the plate.
We need the Ex successful CEO Peter Varney to be involved with the young Gun Barclay, before it is too late and the Leeches suck this famous old under achieving club dry.
People saying ‘there’s nothing wrong with the substitutions’ are happy changing 40% of the outfield players within the space of 6 minutes?
Just reminds me of when it happens in a preseason friendly and the next 10-15 mins are pants cos it generally takes time for players to get into the game.
We had 13 mins to hold out when those subs were made. I’d generally be interested and open to know why someone would be happy with that decision making.
Powell was given a purse, Bows has been given sod all. Different styles of management, what is the point of the comparison? Bit like comparing cat shit and a doner kebab.
My bigger criticism of a Bowyer probably isn’t the resorting to defensive tactics thing but rather his digging out of players in public - the same players that we’re then relying on to save us. At the start of the season it was “Bonne’s not ready for this level” and now it’s “he has to be taking those chances”.
Agreed. Bowyer is massively in credit, but his recent post match interviews leave a lot to be desired. Don't criticise your players individually in public (unless it's for gross misconduct like a bad red card etc), especially when you don't have anyone else to play instead of him
And you'd have thought Bonne missed half a dozen good chances, when in reality he had 2 chances last night, one he scored and one which was saved. One in Two. Indeed I imagine his chance conversion ratio is perfectly respectable in this division. 10 goals is a decent return, considering the likes of Ashley Fletcher and Puscas only have 11
People saying ‘there’s nothing wrong with the substitutions’ are happy changing 40% of the outfield players within the space of 6 minutes?
Just reminds me of when it happens in a preseason friendly and the next 10-15 mins are pants cos it generally takes time for players to get into the game.
We had 13 mins to hold out when those subs were made. I’d generally be interested and open to know why someone would be happy with that decision making.
As I commented on another thread, did all these things happen within the same phase of play? Why did LB decide to bring Field off the same time as 2 ‘forced’ subs, when his reasoning for bringing Pratley on was to control a player Field has been controlling already for over 15 mins. Why bring on Sarr just 6 mins later?
He says Field "had run out of legs". “Birmingham were whacking long balls into the box and long throws. I had to bring Naby on for a bit of height because we’re only small at the back".
I can see both sides. I'm desperately unhappy, but can't disagree with Bowyer's comments in the article I linked above, he explains all the valid reasons behind the subs.
My bigger criticism of a Bowyer probably isn’t the resorting to defensive tactics thing but rather his digging out of players in public - the same players that we’re then relying on to save us. At the start of the season it was “Bonne’s not ready for this level” and now it’s “he has to be taking those chances”.
Agreed. Bowyer is massively in credit, but his recent post match interviews leave a lot to be desired. Don't criticise your players individually in public (unless it's for gross misconduct like a bad red card etc), especially when you don't have anyone else to play instead of him
And you'd have thought Bonne missed half a dozen good chances, when in reality he had 2 chances last night, one he scored and one which was saved. One in Two. Indeed I imagine his chance conversion ratio is perfectly respectable in this division. 10 goals is a decent return, considering the likes of Ashley Fletcher and Puscas only have 11
Fletcher scored on Tuesday v Reading and has 13 I believe.
My bigger criticism of a Bowyer probably isn’t the resorting to defensive tactics thing but rather his digging out of players in public - the same players that we’re then relying on to save us. At the start of the season it was “Bonne’s not ready for this level” and now it’s “he has to be taking those chances”.
Agreed. Bowyer is massively in credit, but his recent post match interviews leave a lot to be desired. Don't criticise your players individually in public (unless it's for gross misconduct like a bad red card etc), especially when you don't have anyone else to play instead of him
And you'd have thought Bonne missed half a dozen good chances, when in reality he had 2 chances last night, one he scored and one which was saved. One in Two. Indeed I imagine his chance conversion ratio is perfectly respectable in this division. 10 goals is a decent return, considering the likes of Ashley Fletcher and Puscas only have 11
Fletcher scored on Tuesday v Reading and has 13 I believe.
My bigger criticism of a Bowyer probably isn’t the resorting to defensive tactics thing but rather his digging out of players in public - the same players that we’re then relying on to save us. At the start of the season it was “Bonne’s not ready for this level” and now it’s “he has to be taking those chances”.
Agreed. Bowyer is massively in credit, but his recent post match interviews leave a lot to be desired. Don't criticise your players individually in public (unless it's for gross misconduct like a bad red card etc), especially when you don't have anyone else to play instead of him
And you'd have thought Bonne missed half a dozen good chances, when in reality he had 2 chances last night, one he scored and one which was saved. One in Two. Indeed I imagine his chance conversion ratio is perfectly respectable in this division. 10 goals is a decent return, considering the likes of Ashley Fletcher and Puscas only have 11
Fletcher scored on Tuesday v Reading and has 13 I believe.
11 in the league
Correct he also scored in the FA Cup v Spurs and EFL Cup v Crewe.
Under normal circumstances (whatever they may be) a draw away to Cardiff and Birmingham, would be considered ‘a good point’ because of our circumstances, and the fact we are desperate to get a win and 3 points on the board.
We normally don’t get many points going to these grounds, cut Lee some slack, he’s under pressure fighting an uphill battle to stay in the division, he’s trying his best with what he’s got.
If it wasn’t for valley pass, most Charlton fans wouldn’t have seen the Cardiff and Birmingham performances, and thought wow that’s a good result!
We weren't very good at the start of the season, which is why we were everybody's favourite not just to be relegated but finish bottom.
We weren't very good in the middle of season when most of our key players were injured.
We certainly weren't very good when Chelsea called their boy home for tea and then sent him to Swansea without any supper.
And we definitely weren't much cop when our main striker and talisman decided to be a selfish tw@t and not play for us again.
Before the season started most people said they'd take a 21st-place finish. Guess what folks? We're currently 21st (albeit before Wigan have their 12-point deduction) and we still have our Division Two survival in our own hands with two matches to go. I'd have bitten your hands off last August for that scenario.
We can get (at least) a point against Wigan on Saturday which may well be enough to keep us up.
Yes, it's frustrating to concede in injury time (yet again). Yes, it's frustrating that we haven't taken our chances during the match (yet again). Yes, it's frustrating that the ref appears to bat for the oppo (yet again).
But let's face it: those three things are integral parts of Charlton!
Can't really say it any better than that, so won't try too hard.
I couldn't back Bowyer more given the players available to him - on paper we're frankly a dire squad at this level but still more-or-less manage to compete with everyone in the division.
If any team with Bonne, Aneke and Hemed up front, a bunch of kids, Pratley and a smattering 'decent' League 1 players can stay up... or even get close to staying up... he's doing something right.
I think that's nonsense. Our players and squad are far better than that. Especially right now, when we have plenty of options in every position except striker
Oh, come on! How are our players 'far better than that'? We had two Sunderland rejects playing out of their skin, and two young boys in their first Championship season. Only Phillips, Matthews and Cullen would be taken seriously at any other Championship club. Pratley and Field are good for us but they are rejects at this level.
As for all the Bowyer criticism (and I don't like defending a lead like that either) he is making a decent enough meal in an average restaurant from scraps from supermarket bins and fast food joints.
We weren't very good at the start of the season, which is why we were everybody's favourite not just to be relegated but finish bottom.
We weren't very good in the middle of season when most of our key players were injured.
We certainly weren't very good when Chelsea called their boy home for tea and then sent him to Swansea without any supper.
And we definitely weren't much cop when our main striker and talisman decided to be a selfish tw@t and not play for us again.
Before the season started most people said they'd take a 21st-place finish. Guess what folks? We're currently 21st (albeit before Wigan have their 12-point deduction) and we still have our Division Two survival in our own hands with two matches to go. I'd have bitten your hands off last August for that scenario.
We can get (at least) a point against Wigan on Saturday which may well be enough to keep us up.
Yes, it's frustrating to concede in injury time (yet again). Yes, it's frustrating that we haven't taken our chances during the match (yet again). Yes, it's frustrating that the ref appears to bat for the oppo (yet again).
But let's face it: those three things are integral parts of Charlton!
Can't really say it any better than that, so won't try too hard.
I couldn't back Bowyer more given the players available to him - on paper we're frankly a dire squad at this level but still more-or-less manage to compete with everyone in the division.
If any team with Bonne, Aneke and Hemed up front, a bunch of kids, Pratley and a smattering 'decent' League 1 players can stay up... or even get close to staying up... he's doing something right.
I think that's nonsense. Our players and squad are far better than that. Especially right now, when we have plenty of options in every position except striker
I don't know how you can say that our squad is better than that - even before losing Taylor, Davis, Solly in every position we were the same or weaker than the side that made the L1 playoffs... if that's your benchmark for a 'good' Championship squad, or is that too high?
Bauer, Aribo, Bielik all walk into this side (Karlan doesn't really count but obviously would too). It's not crying over spilled milk, but just a comparison of where we are compared to last year when we were in a lower division and sneaked up via pens and a last second winner in the playoffs.
Bauer is about the same as Lockyer
Aribo, sure, is probably an improvement over many of our midfielders this time. Gallagher was an equivalent replacement but since he's gone, McGeady has not quite cut it
Bielik is probably not so much better than Field. Having him would have at least meant less Pratley
So your defense is that Lockyer is level with Bauer ( funny that Preston didn't buy him then) and Field as good as Bielik. Even if true it doesn't account for the loss of Taylor, Grant, Gallagher and Aribo.
Play a full season with the current squad and we would go down under any manager. Bowyer is ensuring we’re still competing.
Taylor, Leko and Gallagher were three of our top four goalscorers.
There’s no combination of subs or formation that guarantees that group of players sees out a win. The quality just isn’t there.
He’s worked under three sets of owners (not that the current ones actually own the club yet).
Huge injury crisis resulting in us recalling youngsters from non-league.
If Bowyer’s not good enough then that suggests another manager could achieve a lot more with this squad. Where should this squad be in the league?
If we go down you’re not going to see many of this squad playing regular Championship football next season.
Bowyer makes mistakes but he’s still doing a far better job than most would. What decent manager could we attract with everything that has gone on at the club in the last few years?
i agree with a lot of this but for me, if you add taylor to the starting 11, that team is good enough to stay in the championship - when a game opens up, if you are going to sit back and defend it out, you must have some outlets, people who can carry the ball and run into the space - how in anybody's world, was taking doughty off for morgan, a good move?
I think Doughty had a knock. There was no one with pace for the out ball on the bench. However, I thought Aneke did well and more than enough to start ahead of the waste of space Hemed.
If Luton and Hull draw and we win on Saturday job done - keep the faith.
agreed - i would have aneke starting ahead of hemed all day and probably ahead of bonne as well but him, williams and doughty are the only runners with the ball and need to be rotated, not all on then all off - 2 on at all times ideally
Play a full season with the current squad and we would go down under any manager. Bowyer is ensuring we’re still competing.
Taylor, Leko and Gallagher were three of our top four goalscorers.
There’s no combination of subs or formation that guarantees that group of players sees out a win. The quality just isn’t there.
He’s worked under three sets of owners (not that the current ones actually own the club yet).
Huge injury crisis resulting in us recalling youngsters from non-league.
If Bowyer’s not good enough then that suggests another manager could achieve a lot more with this squad. Where should this squad be in the league?
If we go down you’re not going to see many of this squad playing regular Championship football next season.
Bowyer makes mistakes but he’s still doing a far better job than most would. What decent manager could we attract with everything that has gone on at the club in the last few years?
i agree with a lot of this but for me, if you add taylor to the starting 11, that team is good enough to stay in the championship - when a game opens up, if you are going to sit back and defend it out, you must have some outlets, people who can carry the ball and run into the space - how in anybody's world, was taking doughty off for morgan, a good move?
Morgan played some great balls when he came on but I do agree with you. No pace to hit them and relieve pressure
i'm not knocking morgan and yes he played a very good ball but its the pace / running with the ball that was needed - we have both williams and doughty , then we have none - time and again its illogical
Exactly - we need more than two players who offer that. That's not Bowyer's fault.
its his fault he keeps playing them at the same time and taking them both off at the same time
btw - i like LB and want him to stay as manager and he has worked wonders with what he has been given but i'm convinced he has cocked up with the negative tactics
Does anyone on CL work for no wages, other than some charity work ?
As we got 7 points from 3 games in June when he was still under contract then that is a different matter but since Bosman, players have the power and some footballers will be selfish.
There should've been rules put into place so Taylor, Solly, and Fraser at Bournemouth plus others couldn't go on strike while still under contract.
I can't bring myself to hate Lyle as he was on a low wage for his amazing stats for cafc.
Lyle Taylor is a serial mover and this one will be lucrative. I can't hate him because his contract should've been sorted.
Good luck to Lee, next season at Birmingham or Bristol City or a similar size Championship club. His 100 games in charge, will stand him in good stead.
Chris Powell struggled big time after being messed about by Duchatelet and maybe Lee can have a squad where he won't have to park the bus in the last quarter of a match when winning.
Wow, so you are assuming anyone whose contract expired at end June and agreed to play on beyond that, for example Sarr, is doing so without pay? Unlikely wouldn’t you think?
I would have assumed the most likely scenario is that those individuals simply agreed to extend by another month on their existing terms.
Does anyone on CL work for no wages, other than some charity work ?
As we got 7 points from 3 games in June when he was still under contract then that is a different matter but since Bosman, players have the power and some footballers will be selfish.
There should've been rules put into place so Taylor, Solly, and Fraser at Bournemouth plus others couldn't go on strike while still under contract.
I can't bring myself to hate Lyle as he was on a low wage for his amazing stats for cafc.
Lyle Taylor is a serial mover and this one will be lucrative. I can't hate him because his contract should've been sorted.
Good luck to Lee, next season at Birmingham or Bristol City or a similar size Championship club. His 100 games in charge, will stand him in good stead.
Chris Powell struggled big time after being messed about by Duchatelet and maybe Lee can have a squad where he won't have to park the bus in the last quarter of a match when winning.
Wow, so you are assuming anyone whose contract expired at end June and agreed to play on beyond that, for example Sarr, is doing so without pay? Unlikely wouldn’t you think?
I would have assumed the most likely scenario is that those individuals simply agreed to extend by another month on their existing terms.
Does anyone on CL work for no wages, other than some charity work ?
As we got 7 points from 3 games in June when he was still under contract then that is a different matter but since Bosman, players have the power and some footballers will be selfish.
There should've been rules put into place so Taylor, Solly, and Fraser at Bournemouth plus others couldn't go on strike while still under contract.
I can't bring myself to hate Lyle as he was on a low wage for his amazing stats for cafc.
Lyle Taylor is a serial mover and this one will be lucrative. I can't hate him because his contract should've been sorted.
Good luck to Lee, next season at Birmingham or Bristol City or a similar size Championship club. His 100 games in charge, will stand him in good stead.
Chris Powell struggled big time after being messed about by Duchatelet and maybe Lee can have a squad where he won't have to park the bus in the last quarter of a match when winning.
Wow, so you are assuming anyone whose contract expired at end June and agreed to play on beyond that, for example Sarr, is doing so without pay? Unlikely wouldn’t you think?
I would have assumed the most likely scenario is that those individuals simply agreed to extend by another month on their existing terms.
I accept that players who are out of contract agreed a one month extension from the end of June. This must be a very large number.
For players like Taylor and Fraser at Bournemouth who's agents have said you could be looking at potential 400% wage increases the self interest kicked in big time, and this is why they decided to not sign the months extension but also not to play the last 3 matches in June when still under contract.
COVID-19 moved the season back and now both Fraser who had been at Bournemouth since a teenager and Lyle Taylor in his two seasons at Charlton have gone from Hero to Zero at their respective clubs.
goals do get scored at the end of games like that but you also need to maintain a threat going the other way to capitalise on the wholes that are left or there is only going to be a goal scored at one end - that's the point
Comments
Just reminds me of when it happens in a preseason friendly and the next 10-15 mins are pants cos it generally takes time for players to get into the game.
Both Eddie Howe and Chris Wilder very nearly became our managers and if we had waited another week instead of Robinson we could've offered the Job to Gary Rowett; I believe he is doing a good job somewhere.
Lee Bowyer deserved a chance without the madness of the daily grind of not knowing who he should answer to ? Duchatelet, Nimer, and the chancer Southall to name just 3. Looks like after 100 games at cafc he can hold his head up and progress again in pastures new.
We will be a smaller club with Morgan, Davidson and Lapslie as our main players with maybe Pearce and Pratley as experience. It would be a chance for Johnnie Jackson to step up to the plate.
We need the Ex successful CEO Peter Varney to be involved with the young Gun Barclay, before it is too late and the Leeches suck this famous old under achieving club dry.
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/major-injury-setback-as-key-charlton-man-set-to-miss-rest-of-the-season/
Different styles of management, what is the point of the comparison?
Bit like comparing cat shit and a doner kebab.
And you'd have thought Bonne missed half a dozen good chances, when in reality he had 2 chances last night, one he scored and one which was saved. One in Two. Indeed I imagine his chance conversion ratio is perfectly respectable in this division. 10 goals is a decent return, considering the likes of Ashley Fletcher and Puscas only have 11
“Birmingham were whacking long balls into the box and long throws.
I had to bring Naby on for a bit of height because we’re only small at the back".
I can see both sides.
I'm desperately unhappy, but can't disagree with Bowyer's comments in the article I linked above, he explains all the valid reasons behind the subs.
We normally don’t get many points going to these grounds, cut Lee some slack, he’s under pressure fighting an uphill battle to stay in the division, he’s trying his best with what he’s got.
If it wasn’t for valley pass, most Charlton fans wouldn’t have seen the Cardiff and Birmingham performances, and thought wow that’s a good result!
Only Phillips, Matthews and Cullen would be taken seriously at any other Championship club. Pratley and Field are good for us but they are rejects at this level.
As for all the Bowyer criticism (and I don't like defending a lead like that either) he is making a decent enough meal in an average restaurant from scraps from supermarket bins and fast food joints.
I would have assumed the most likely scenario is that those individuals simply agreed to extend by another month on their existing terms.
https://www.cafc.co.uk/news/view/5eec895d8daae/out-of-contract-players-extend-deals-until-end-of-201920-season
I accept that players who are out of contract agreed a one month extension from the end of June. This must be a very large number.
For players like Taylor and Fraser at Bournemouth who's agents have said you could be looking at potential 400% wage increases the self interest kicked in big time, and this is why they decided to not sign the months extension but also not to play the last 3 matches in June when still under contract.
COVID-19 moved the season back and now both Fraser who had been at Bournemouth since a teenager and Lyle Taylor in his two seasons at Charlton have gone from Hero to Zero at their respective clubs.
A sorry state of affairs cause by a global Virus.
Or maybe lots of goals get scored late on when players are tired and the opposition are chasing the game.