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Dylan Levitt - Sold by Man U to Dundee United (p14)
Comments
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I remember Jay De Silva.
I was one of the few who thought he did ok on his debut but he was subbed off and didn't play again for months.
Turned out to be a more than decent player.
Was Bowyer coaching with us by then?
Levitt is still a work in progress. He may or may not work out a good signing but far too early to write him off or hail him as the new Messiah.9 -
Levitt could be a very good player in a couple of years time, he made about 2 good passes yesterday in my book and is no better at the moment than what we already have, he should have been sent on loan to Salford.2
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Chunes said:Vennings and Morgan don't play in the same position. How many times... ?
Don't think people realise how well regarded Levitt is at United. He is always going to struggle with our fans because he's a clever passer and not a 'Charlton style', dynamic, smashing-around-the-pitch player that usually gets people onside.
Have we ever had a deep lying playmaker? I don't think people know what it looks like.
Eventually the table is going to split into front runners and relegation teams. Then we're going to be facing brick walls where opponents have 11 men behind the ball. You don't need a Pratley or a Watson in games like those, you need a Levitt who can cut through the lines with a pass.
LB said when he joined people would have to be patient with him. He's 18 and it's his first loan. But it's funny he's being singled out for grief when after a poor first 25 he was good for the rest of the game and spread the ball around well and broke their lines with some sharp passes.
But honestly it's gonna be hopeless for him here. It would probably be good for him and Utd if he goes somewhere else in January. He should've gone to a club with less of an industrious football culture.
I don't disagree with what you're saying overall, but i also agree with Sage's earlier post that i'm not sure where he fits in. When everyone is fit (don't laugh), then he's not really pushing the first XI so wouldn't the loan spot and wages be better used elsewhere?5 -
Dave Rudd said:Sage said:Dave Rudd said:MattF said:Dave Rudd said:He's a full International.
Under normal circumstances I'd be ringing Giggs to get his insight into how to get more out of Levitt.
Levitt is on Man Utd's books for a reason.
Although we signed him when were under the one out one in embargo instead of a player in an area we were lacking, so there must be more to come.
Are you OK with that?
Giggs will have seen a lot more than you and I have. He will have a role in mind, and expectations.
Bowyer is not getting the best from Levitt. He might want to have a chat about it with Gunter too.
Genuine question by the way. I just don’t think he would be anywhere near as close. Maybe I am being harsh, just how I see it right now.
As an International manager, you don't pick a player because he comes from a Club that you have affinity with. You don't last long in the job if you do.
Walcott over Bent being a classic example.5 -
FishCostaFortune said:DubaiCAFC said:Chunes said:Vennings and Morgan don't play in the same position. How many times... ?
Don't think people realise how well regarded Levitt is at United. He is always going to struggle with our fans because he's a clever passer and not a 'Charlton style', dynamic, smashing-around-the-pitch player that usually gets people onside.
Have we ever had a deep lying playmaker? I don't think people know what it looks like.
Eventually the table is going to split into front runners and relegation teams. Then we're going to be facing brick walls where opponents have 11 men behind the ball. You don't need a Pratley or a Watson in games like those, you need a Levitt who can cut through the lines with a pass.
LB said when he joined people would have to be patient with him. He's 18 and it's his first loan. But it's funny he's being singled out for grief when after a poor first 25 he was good for the rest of the game and spread the ball around well and broke their lines with some sharp passes.
But honestly it's gonna be hopeless for him here. It would probably be good for him and Utd if he goes somewhere else in January. He should've gone to a club with less of an industrious football culture.
The boy can pass the ball, but he is guilty of not doing the other side of the game, which Morgan is singled out by Bowyer.. And this why he has been set to us on loan to learn, bit like we did with Morgan last year.
Morgan was singled out by Bowyer for not tracking back and doing the defensive side of his game. We know Bowyer expects his attacking midfielders to work hard for the team. He even said the same of Maddison yesterday.
Do you expect him to start singling out players for getting out played by the opposition or making mistakes? Because if he did his press conferences would be awfully long.
Bowyer didn’t name names, but made it clear that the players who came in for this match didn’t impress him, Levitt being one of them.
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We're out of the cup now, so it's going to be hard for Levitt to improve because he won't be playing.
One of the sometimes over-looked "benefits" of having a small squad was that younger players got regular games; like Pope, Aribo, Konsa, Lookman, Grant, Doughty etc. In a squad full of experienced Watson/Gunter/Shinnie types, where do these younger players get their experience? And I'm talking about proper playing experience...not just 2 or 3 cup games a season and being able to train with top players.
Maybe Levitt would be better being sent back in Jan and then farmed out to a club with a smaller squad, where he can play a proper run of games. Unless we get a stack of injuries (possible) or he produces a dynamite performance in one of his rare chances, he's not going to get much action.0 -
killerandflash said:Surely if the deep midfielder Levitt loses his man it’s WORSE than if an attacking midfielder does it?
Bowyer didn’t name names, but made it clear that the players who came in for this match didn’t impress him, Levitt being one of them.
Morgan was called out by Bowyer, not because he was outplayed or made any mistakes, it's because he couldn't be bothered to track back and do his defensive duties. Whys he going to call out Levitt who let's face it, didn't have any worse a game then anyone else, because he made some defensive mistakes.
That's just poor poor man management.
Honestly the mental gymnastics on this forum to try and justify your view points that you don't think Levitt is very good is plain embarrassing.
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A long season ahead, injuries (we are prone) and suspensions will give him his chances and I suspect at his age, he will have some good games and some less good games, but he is a welcome squad player with an eye for a pass.0
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There's always a weird aspect to this board where people don't seem to have any concept of form. It seems that when players have bad games they're 'not good enough' unless they've painstakingly earned the right to have an off day over months and months. Levitt is young, he's adapting to his first time playing in League One with a new team, and he's not started brilliantly. It doesn't mean he's not good enough, it means he has to adapt. There's obviously a player in there, so hopefully he settles soon. In the mean time writing him off this early into his time at the club is just insane
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Garrymanilow said:There's always a weird aspect to this board where people don't seem to have any concept of form. It seems that when players have bad games they're 'not good enough' unless they've painstakingly earned the right to have an off day over months and months. Levitt is young, he's adapting to his first time playing in League One with a new team, and he's not started brilliantly. It doesn't mean he's not good enough, it means he has to adapt. There's obviously a player in there, so hopefully he settles soon. In the mean time writing him off this early into his time at the club is just insane5
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Dave Rudd said:Sage said:Dave Rudd said:MattF said:Dave Rudd said:He's a full International.
Under normal circumstances I'd be ringing Giggs to get his insight into how to get more out of Levitt.
Levitt is on Man Utd's books for a reason.
Although we signed him when were under the one out one in embargo instead of a player in an area we were lacking, so there must be more to come.
Are you OK with that?
Giggs will have seen a lot more than you and I have. He will have a role in mind, and expectations.
Bowyer is not getting the best from Levitt. He might want to have a chat about it with Gunter too.
Genuine question by the way. I just don’t think he would be anywhere near as close. Maybe I am being harsh, just how I see it right now.
As an International manager, you don't pick a player because he comes from a Club that you have affinity with. You don't last long in the job if you do.
If Levitt was a CAFC academy player do you honestly believe he would be in the Wales first team?9 -
FishCostaFortune said:killerandflash said:Surely if the deep midfielder Levitt loses his man it’s WORSE than if an attacking midfielder does it?
Bowyer didn’t name names, but made it clear that the players who came in for this match didn’t impress him, Levitt being one of them.
Morgan was called out by Bowyer, not because he was outplayed or made any mistakes, it's because he couldn't be bothered to track back and do his defensive duties. Whys he going to call out Levitt who let's face it, didn't have any worse a game then anyone else, because he made some defensive mistakes.
That's just poor poor man management.
Honestly the mental gymnastics on this forum to try and justify your view points that you don't think Levitt is very good is plain embarrassing.1 -
I think it is agreed that Levitt can pass well, Giggs said when we signed him that he was one of the best passers he has seen. He did not say he could defend or tackle and I am sure LB and SG knew this when they signed him. "Young inexperienced lad, has many attributes but still has a lot to learn", you could say this about 90% of young players coming into the top clubs and hope they improve.1
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I don't think he's good enough to get in the 1st team. As a loan signing, we'd be better off sending him back & using the wages on somebody who will improve the team5
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I know we will need a squad this season but he’s nowhere near playing regularly , especially with Gilbey returning imminently3
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It's pretty clear to me that when everyone is fit, Levitt will be lucky to even get a spot on our bench.
JFC, Watson, Pratley, Gilbey, Williams, Shinnie, Morgan and Vennings can all play in centre midfield and are all equal to or in most cases better than Levitt.
Wouldn't be surprised to see him return to Man Utd in January.4 -
Gravesend_Addick said:I don't think he's good enough to get in the 1st team. As a loan signing, we'd be better off sending him back & using the wages on somebody who will improve the team1
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Chunes said:wmcf123 said:I know we will need a squad this season but he’s nowhere near playing regularly , especially with Gilbey returning imminently0
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cafcfan1990 said:Gravesend_Addick said:I don't think he's good enough to get in the 1st team. As a loan signing, we'd be better off sending him back & using the wages on somebody who will improve the team0
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Safe to say I think Levitt will get recalled (sent back) to United in January. From this very moment I would be surprised if he was still a Charlton player in the new year0
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killerandflash said:cafcfan1990 said:Gravesend_Addick said:I don't think he's good enough to get in the 1st team. As a loan signing, we'd be better off sending him back & using the wages on somebody who will improve the team0
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cafcfan1990 said:Chunes said:wmcf123 said:I know we will need a squad this season but he’s nowhere near playing regularly , especially with Gilbey returning imminently
Levitt plays in front of the back four... Same position Watson and Pratley. (Although Pratley also sometimes plays as a ball-winning CM).
He's not competing with Gilbey, JFC, Morgan, Vennings, Shinnie, etc. for their starting spots. They play in central midfield. He plays behind them. We play a diamond remember?
He can play behind the strikers but that seems like a rare role for him and LB hasn't shown any interest in that side of his game.1 -
Chunes said:cafcfan1990 said:Chunes said:wmcf123 said:I know we will need a squad this season but he’s nowhere near playing regularly , especially with Gilbey returning imminently
Levitt plays in front of the back four... Same position Watson and Pratley. (Although Pratley also sometimes plays as a ball-winning CM).
He's not competing with Gilbey, JFC, Morgan, Vennings, Shinnie, etc. for their starting spots. They play in central midfield. He plays behind them. We play a diamond remember?
He can play behind the strikers but that seems like a rare role for him and LB hasn't shown any interest in that side of his game.
Levitt is not a DM because he can't tackle, and I think that's one of his biggest problems. For me, his best position is probably as a deep lying playmaker in a 4231 as one of the two. But he's going to have to adapt and vary his game because the defensive side of his game isn't good enough, not for someone whose best position is supposedly in front of the back four.
I struggle to understand how you say he's not competing with Gilbey, Shinnie etc but then say he can play behind the strikers. Surely any midfielder who can play DM and CAM can play CM? Like I said, I agree Levitt is a different type of player but I don't agree he isn't competing with those aswell as Pratley and Morgan for a place in the squad. Yes he would play a different role but it's like saying Pratley/Watson are in direct competition but will never play together, because that's been proven wrong.5 -
cafcfan1990 said:Chunes said:cafcfan1990 said:Chunes said:wmcf123 said:I know we will need a squad this season but he’s nowhere near playing regularly , especially with Gilbey returning imminently
Levitt plays in front of the back four... Same position Watson and Pratley. (Although Pratley also sometimes plays as a ball-winning CM).
He's not competing with Gilbey, JFC, Morgan, Vennings, Shinnie, etc. for their starting spots. They play in central midfield. He plays behind them. We play a diamond remember?
He can play behind the strikers but that seems like a rare role for him and LB hasn't shown any interest in that side of his game.
Levitt is not a DM because he can't tackle, and I think that's one of his biggest problems. For me, his best position is probably as a deep lying playmaker in a 4231 as one of the two. But he's going to have to adapt and vary his game because the defensive side of his game isn't good enough, not for someone whose best position is supposedly in front of the back four.
I struggle to understand how you say he's not competing with Gilbey, Shinnie etc but then say he can play behind the strikers. Surely any midfielder who can play DM and CAM can play CM? Like I said, I agree Levitt is a different type of player but I don't agree he isn't competing with those aswell as Pratley and Morgan for a place in the squad. Yes he would play a different role but it's like saying Pratley/Watson are in direct competition but will never play together, because that's been proven wrong.
Even yesterday we had Levitt behind JFC and Morgan. That's how LB shapes his midfield.
I don't think you read my last paragraph but I will repeat it again, that advanced role is a rare one for him, and LB hasn't shown any interest in playing him there. So, no, he is not competing with Shinnie.
And when LB has only ever played him in that Watson slot, and when he only ever really played that same position for Utd, then why is he suddenly competing for another position?
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Chunes said:cafcfan1990 said:Chunes said:cafcfan1990 said:Chunes said:wmcf123 said:I know we will need a squad this season but he’s nowhere near playing regularly , especially with Gilbey returning imminently
Levitt plays in front of the back four... Same position Watson and Pratley. (Although Pratley also sometimes plays as a ball-winning CM).
He's not competing with Gilbey, JFC, Morgan, Vennings, Shinnie, etc. for their starting spots. They play in central midfield. He plays behind them. We play a diamond remember?
He can play behind the strikers but that seems like a rare role for him and LB hasn't shown any interest in that side of his game.
Levitt is not a DM because he can't tackle, and I think that's one of his biggest problems. For me, his best position is probably as a deep lying playmaker in a 4231 as one of the two. But he's going to have to adapt and vary his game because the defensive side of his game isn't good enough, not for someone whose best position is supposedly in front of the back four.
I struggle to understand how you say he's not competing with Gilbey, Shinnie etc but then say he can play behind the strikers. Surely any midfielder who can play DM and CAM can play CM? Like I said, I agree Levitt is a different type of player but I don't agree he isn't competing with those aswell as Pratley and Morgan for a place in the squad. Yes he would play a different role but it's like saying Pratley/Watson are in direct competition but will never play together, because that's been proven wrong.
Even yesterday we had Levitt behind JFC and Morgan. That's how LB shapes his midfield.
I don't think you read my last paragraph but I will repeat it again, that advanced role is a rare one for him, and LB hasn't shown any interest in playing him there. So, no, he is not competing with Shinnie.
And when LB has only ever played him in that Watson slot, and when he only ever really played that same position for Utd, then why is he suddenly competing for another position?
I can see your point, but I disagree with it. I appreciate he has so far played in front of the back 4, but Levitt is a central midfield player. Whether he is slightly defensive, a deep lying playmaker or a box to box midfielder, he is a central midfielder. I am not saying he is the same type player as Shinnie, but I see all of our CMs fighting for places. I simply don't see it as he is only fighting Pratley or Watson for a place in the team.
Don't think you've watched many games if you think we've played the diamond nearly every league game.0 -
cafcfan1990 said:Chunes said:cafcfan1990 said:Chunes said:wmcf123 said:I know we will need a squad this season but he’s nowhere near playing regularly , especially with Gilbey returning imminently
Levitt plays in front of the back four... Same position Watson and Pratley. (Although Pratley also sometimes plays as a ball-winning CM).
He's not competing with Gilbey, JFC, Morgan, Vennings, Shinnie, etc. for their starting spots. They play in central midfield. He plays behind them. We play a diamond remember?
He can play behind the strikers but that seems like a rare role for him and LB hasn't shown any interest in that side of his game.
Levitt is not a DM because he can't tackle, and I think that's one of his biggest problems. For me, his best position is probably as a deep lying playmaker in a 4231 as one of the two. But he's going to have to adapt and vary his game because the defensive side of his game isn't good enough, not for someone whose best position is supposedly in front of the back four.
I struggle to understand how you say he's not competing with Gilbey, Shinnie etc but then say he can play behind the strikers. Surely any midfielder who can play DM and CAM can play CM? Like I said, I agree Levitt is a different type of player but I don't agree he isn't competing with those aswell as Pratley and Morgan for a place in the squad. Yes he would play a different role but it's like saying Pratley/Watson are in direct competition but will never play together, because that's been proven wrong.
We also have never played with a deep lying playmaker, never under Bowyer. As a deep lying playmaker, you need to have excellent positioning and be able to dictate the tempo of the game, he hasn’t shown to have either of those attributes.
If we focus on a formation Bowyer has played, such as a diamond, where does he fit because he most certainly isn’t going to play instead of Pratley, Watson, Shinnie, Gilbey, and Forster-Caskey in any of the three central roles. Be it in front of the defence (Pratley or Watson) or either side of the two in midfield (Shinnie and Gilbey for example). We then have far superior offensive players to play behind the front two.
In a 4-3-3, where does he play when everyone is fit? Not going to sit in front of the defence as said already. Not a box to box type midfielder like Gilbey is more that role, and not creative and offensive like Shinnie or Williams.
Morgan has a great range of passing, which seems to be what the general feeling that is Levitt’s biggest quality, but Morgan has shown he can play out wide if needed. You’ve arguably got Levitt behind him and therefore, 7th in the ‘pecking order’.
The recruitment from Gallen and Bowyer has been excellent, incredible all things considered to bring in the quality they have. But they won’t get every loan signing right.
So far, Levitt is by far the weakest loan signing out of the 5, and rather than having 6 loanees with Levitt not in the squad each week, he’d be better off going to another club who play 4-2-3-1 and he can learn his trade that way.
Sometimes players just aren’t suited to a way of playing or a club or whatever it might be, and he’s not shown anything at all to say he should be ahead of any of the midfielders who are currently ahead of him.8 -
Sage said:cafcfan1990 said:Chunes said:cafcfan1990 said:Chunes said:wmcf123 said:I know we will need a squad this season but he’s nowhere near playing regularly , especially with Gilbey returning imminently
Levitt plays in front of the back four... Same position Watson and Pratley. (Although Pratley also sometimes plays as a ball-winning CM).
He's not competing with Gilbey, JFC, Morgan, Vennings, Shinnie, etc. for their starting spots. They play in central midfield. He plays behind them. We play a diamond remember?
He can play behind the strikers but that seems like a rare role for him and LB hasn't shown any interest in that side of his game.
Levitt is not a DM because he can't tackle, and I think that's one of his biggest problems. For me, his best position is probably as a deep lying playmaker in a 4231 as one of the two. But he's going to have to adapt and vary his game because the defensive side of his game isn't good enough, not for someone whose best position is supposedly in front of the back four.
I struggle to understand how you say he's not competing with Gilbey, Shinnie etc but then say he can play behind the strikers. Surely any midfielder who can play DM and CAM can play CM? Like I said, I agree Levitt is a different type of player but I don't agree he isn't competing with those aswell as Pratley and Morgan for a place in the squad. Yes he would play a different role but it's like saying Pratley/Watson are in direct competition but will never play together, because that's been proven wrong.
We also have never played with a deep lying playmaker, never under Bowyer. As a deep lying playmaker, you need to have excellent positioning and be able to dictate the tempo of the game, he hasn’t shown to have either of those attributes.
If we focus on a formation Bowyer has played, such as a diamond, where does he fit because he most certainly isn’t going to play instead of Pratley, Watson, Shinnie, Gilbey, and Forster-Caskey in any of the three central roles. Be it in front of the defence (Pratley or Watson) or either side of the two in midfield (Shinnie and Gilbey for example). We then have far superior offensive players to play behind the front two.
In a 4-3-3, where does he play when everyone is fit? Not going to sit in front of the defence as said already. Not a box to box type midfielder like Gilbey is more that role, and not creative and offensive like Shinnie or Williams.
Morgan has a great range of passing, which seems to be what the general feeling that is Levitt’s biggest quality, but Morgan has shown he can play out wide if needed. You’ve arguably got Levitt behind him and therefore, 7th in the ‘pecking order’.
The recruitment from Gallen and Bowyer has been excellent, incredible all things considered to bring in the quality they have. But they won’t get every loan signing right.
So far, Levitt is by far the weakest loan signing out of the 5, and rather than having 6 loanees with Levitt not in the squad each week, he’d be better off going to another club who play 4-2-3-1 and he can learn his trade that way.
Sometimes players just aren’t suited to a way of playing or a club or whatever it might be, and he’s not shown anything at all to say he should be ahead of any of the midfielders who are currently ahead of him.
Like you say though, can't get it all right and it's been outstanding yet again. Levitt doesn't seem suited to us at all.1 -
loads of Man Utd youngsters end up playing lower league football or being released - please don’t see his club as a sign of him being a star for us1