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Understanding racism - only read if interested in this topic!
Iceman
Posts: 10
Ok, here goes and apologies in advance for the very long post. I hope the topic is obvious and would suggest that posters only read this if they are interested and unlikely to get offended / upset by the content.
To introduce myself, I have been a member of Charlton Life since 2011 and a reader for much longer. I come on this site multiple times every day. However, I’ve only ever made three posts. One to wish SCP good luck when he left, once when Roland left and once on a topic about members that never post! I came online today for my fourth post to celebrate TS’s takeover, but then got lost in the many posts about racism and it drove me to write this.
I work as a D&I Lead in one of the world’s largest
organisations. I am also black. I have specifically committed to try to educate
people on racism over the past few months and hence the reason for my post.
This is meant to be informative / educational and in no way intended to call
anyone out or point fingers, although I will be using a couple of examples that
I have read to give context. Please don’t read on if you have no interest in
learning more on this.
Racism, in its very simplest form, is when someone makes an antagonist
remark or action against someone of a particular race or ethnic group. It can
be deliberate or accidental and posted in the form of a joke or generalisation.
This is not to be confused with a micro-aggression, which is a remark or action
that simply has something to do with someone’s race or ethnicity. Micro-aggressions
typically don’t have a negative intent, but can be exhausting if you are on the
end of it. Examples of micro-aggression would be asking someone where they are really
from, asking to touch a black ladies hair because you like the way it feels or,
often in my case, deciding to call someone by a different name because their actual
name is too difficult for you to grasp. Micro-aggressions are really important
for people to understand and are not just linked to race. There is a very short
video which you can watch on this to explain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDd3bzA7450&feature=emb_title
I read a lot of comments of people everywhere suggesting
that the world has become too “sensitive” or people “can’t take a joke”. Hopefully
the above video explains that better. However, comments like that are, almost always,
made by people who have white privilege and haven’t lived with these “jokes”
their whole lives. I know white privilege has become a buzz term recently and
can be described in many ways, but as a general rule, you have white privilege
in the UK if you answer yes to all or the majority of the following: 1) When I walk
into my work or public area, most people look like me; 2) The primary language
spoken in my household is English; 3) I am able to walk into a shop without
fear of being followed / scrutinised more than the norm; 4) I do not need to
alter my behaviours, appearance of speech to fit in more with those around me.
There are of course other questions that can be asked in this scenario, but you
get the idea.
Having white privilege isn’t a negative and of course isn’t anyone’s
fault. But it needs to be understood. Nobody can possibly make the assumption
that they wouldn’t be offended by something, if the joke isnt about their own
race or ethnicity and they haven’t put up with listening to those “jokes” their
whole lives. So when you consider telling a “joke”, can you actually relate to
the person you are saying it about? If the answer is “no”, even if the “joke” is
well intentioned, it’s probably best to leave it.
On the takeover thread which has now been closed, there was
a joke about Nimer and kebab shops. Although I am sure it was unintentional,
this is of course racist. It was almost definitely made in reference to the
fact that he has a similar skin colour to people you would “normally” find
running a kebab shop. Horrific geography and understanding of where Nimer is
from aside (I am unaware of the UAE having a particular liking for kebabs), it
is a remark made because of his race and therefore, sorry to say, is racist.
Similarly, there was a post (although it seems to have been
deleted now), where someone listed various articles of all the ridiculous
things that people take offence to now. Before it was deleted, I just want to
make the point that most of those articles are specifically designed to try and
discredit the fight against real racism. They are almost always made up or sensationalised,
with a view to trivialise the real issue. The post contained articles like
people calling for the White Cliffs of Dover to be renamed. Of course, this is ridiculous and there is no
credible large groups pushing for anything like that. These articles try to make
the fight against racism seem ridiculous – please do not read or repost them. From
memory, the post also included an article saying people were pushing for words
such as “blacklist” to be banned. Funnily enough, although there is actually
nobody seriously pushing for these words to be banned, you may be interested to
watch a short clip of Muhammad Ali to understand this more and why this isn’t
as ridiculous as it may seem: https://twitter.com/bbc/status/1270385415380283392?lang=en
I could write for hours about this and know this is already a very long post. I don’t believe that there is anyone on this site that is fundamentally racist, but I hope that this provides some information on how we can all fight racism better together. If anyone has any questions for me, or wants clarification on what is / isn’t the right thing to say, I am happy to answer questions and help educate. Don’t be afraid to talk about race or scared of saying the wrong thing in order to educate yourself – talking about it is the first step.
And, to finish on what, I came on here originally to say - Delighted to welcome TS to the club and f-off ESI / PE!
126
Comments
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Great post mate6
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A very well thought out and informed post.
Apart from using Muhammad Ali.
He was as racist as they come.4 -
Thank you.blackpool72 said:A very well thought out and informed post.
Apart from using Muhammad Ali.
He was as racist as they come.
I agree that he had some racist views. I was specifically referring to the posted clip around what he was talking about in that short part of the interview to provide an understanding of certain words / norms, rather than endorsing his views as a whole.6 -
Great post. Thanks for writing it.
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In that case we are in full agreement.Iceman said:
Thank you.blackpool72 said:A very well thought out and informed post.
Apart from using Muhammad Ali.
He was as racist as they come.
I agree that he had some racist views. I was specifically referring to the posted clip around what he was talking about in that short part of the interview to provide an understanding of certain words / norms, rather than endorsing his views as a whole.
Very good post btw1 -
He certainly beat the crap out of several white guys.blackpool72 said:A very well thought out and informed post.
Apart from using Muhammad Ali.
He was as racist as they come.10 -
I think the whole topic is challenging. Not least because many of the people who end up making offensive comments, don't think they are offensive, and that's the real challenge. It's not about shaming people, it's about educating them. But those people have also got to be willing to be educated without feeling attacked. It's a fine balance to navigate.I think there is an element of things going too far in terms of "wokeness" but that's not about racism for me for which I think boundaries should be pretty clear now, and just that people can't take the piss about anything anymore and that in itself makes people push back against everything. If everything is offensive then nothing's offensive to some people. It's a tough time to be a comedian.I'm white. I have white privilege. I have 4 children. 2 of them are half black, 2 of them are half Indian. I am therefore sensitive to things I hear in a way that white people probably aren't normally, because I consider how they might receive it.The challenge with confronting racism unfortunately is changing the perception of those who both think everything is "pc gone mad" and those who think a casual joke doesn't hurt anyone because it doesn't hurt them.I doubt the proper racists will change regardless, and they certainly won't have bothered reading to the end of your (very interesting and informative) post.21
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The original post is to internet discourse what a cool glass of water is to a day in the desert.9
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Thanks for posting this. Excellent stuff. Calling out racism often gets jumped on, especially on the other Charlton forums, so good idea having a thread when it can discussed without complaints of topic derailment.
There are a group of us interested in trying to attract a more racially balanced crowd to The Valley. The make up of the crowd nowhere near reflects the demographic of London or the local community, and that really needs to change. Would you be interested in discussing this further? There's someone inside the club interested in this, and with our new owner in place it's something that we might be able to progress.8 - Sponsored links:
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Thanks for sharing that and completely agree.blackheathaddick said:I think the whole topic is challenging. Not least because many of the people who end up making offensive comments, don't think they are offensive, and that's the real challenge. It's not about shaming people, it's about educating them. But those people have also got to be willing to be educated without feeling attacked. It's a fine balance to navigate.I think there is an element of things going too far in terms of "wokeness" but that's not about racism for me for which I think boundaries should be pretty clear now, and just that people can't take the piss about anything anymore and that in itself makes people push back against everything. If everything is offensive then nothing's offensive to some people. It's a tough time to be a comedian.I'm white. I have white privilege. I have 4 children. 2 of them are half black, 2 of them are half Indian. I am therefore sensitive to things I hear in a way that white people probably aren't normally, because I consider how they might receive it.The challenge with confronting racism unfortunately is changing the perception of those who both think everything is "pc gone mad" and those who think a casual joke doesn't hurt anyone because it doesn't hurt them.I doubt the proper racists will change regardless, and they certainly won't have bothered reading to the end of your (very interesting and informative) post.Often people making jokes will make the statement that they wouldn’t be offended if it was about them and people who are offended are too sensitive. Unfortunately, unless you are actually on the end of the joke, you can’t make that assumption.One joke may in isolation seem harmless or a bit of fun. But have you considered that someone has heard a similar joke or association like that thousands of times before and hear it every day? Would you still find it funny if a light-hearted joke was made in your direction constantly along the same lines, or would you eventually have enough of hearing it?6 -
If that’s an example of your posting @Iceman then I would welcome your views on practically every thread. Post of the day bar none.18
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Somebody has mentioned Muhammed Ali, and this is a sports forum discussing sport.
Here is a famous brilliant sportsman in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IQ-UGwZdKM
And although the famous and successful can sometimes be cosseted from the more everyday grubby nasty aspects of racism, and people often say it is a problem of the past, here is what he says earlier this year.
https://news.sky.com/video/history-is-written-by-the-people-who-do-the-harm-cricket-commentators-view-of-white-privilege-12024274
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One of the best parts of the pub game is the people you meet & the diversity it brings , i meet so many different walks of life on a daily basis & hear so many different views but as I publican I learnt early on to keep my views to myself & just be more of a listener & advocate.Buckingham university is a private university & therefore there are a lot of foreign students, most of my staff are from the university & are mostly non British , we are a tight knit group & socialise together outside of work & even some of them come to me at Xmas when they are not going home.
Im white & English & take a lot of stick from them for it , this is largely down to the environment I’ve created where we are all equal & there is nothing they can’t say to me , if I do something wrong at work they call me out on it , if I’ve been particularly stressful in service they will tell me , always with good humour as they know that’s not really my nature.
All the white boy or English jokes made about me or to me are taken as the jokes they were intended to be I’ve never taken offence which is why I guess they see it as acceptable to make , I’m sure they would not say the same things if someone they didn’t know was in earshot in case it caused offence .I love Comedy & find jimmy Carr funny , he jokes about risky things , I have a wheelchair bound sister & make risky jokes to her I couldn’t say to another disabled person as she knows me & how heartbroken I am over her situation but she loves the humour & the fact I don’t skip around the situation.
I don’t know what all this means & maybe deep down I’m a racist because I allow people to make jokes about my colour, how my pale ass turns red at the thought of sun or my love of hip hop , grime & drum & bass music & urban fashion but I just don’t find it offensive so it just really doesn’t Bother me but I perfectly accept that some people do .
just another take on it I guess make of me what you will but I don’t consider myself to be a bad person or a racist person6 -
Interesting, because about 20 years ago I was going out with an Iranian woman and I do remember saying to her, that I thought she was very "Exotic" of course I thought and meant it as a compliment and thankfully she did take it that way.
I wouldn't have thought at the time that it may have been considered as racism and in the context I meant, that compared to my previous relationships, mostly English women, she did seem 'Exotic' .
The definition of Exotic, originating in or characteristic of a distant foreign country.
Was I being a racist, literally one could say yes if going by the definition but was I?0 -
Nosillav nitram said:Interesting, because about 20 years ago I was going out with an Iranian woman and I do remember saying to her, that I thought she was very "Exotic" of course I thought and meant it as a compliment and thankfully she did take it that way.
I wouldn't have thought at the time that it may have been considered as racism and in the context I meant, that compared to my previous relationships, mostly English women, she did seem 'Exotic' .
The definition of Exotic, originating in or characteristic of a distant foreign country.
Was I being a racist, literally one could say yes if going by the definition but was I?8 -
I think it seems like you have a great working environment for your staff, which is great and I'm sure it brings rewards for your business. I think the thing is that when you walk out of work, in your day to day life, you probably don't have people making jokes about your race or culture, and they aren't ingrained in the society where you live. That's why I don't think it's an exactly like-for-like situation between your situation and someone who isn't white in your situation. You're also a boss, so if you were if you were getting that same banter from a superior it might feel different or could certainly be inappropriate. Finally, and I think it's an important point you raise, when you have trusted familiar relations with people, you have your own set of boundaries, so as you say, you can share inappropriate jibes at one another. I don't think anyone has ever said that was inappropriate because it's between two consenting adults. But it also doesn't mean someone you aren't familiar with wouldn't be upset if you used that joke in front of them. Anyway I don't think anyone would suggest you're doing anything wrong at all, and you clearly care about your employees which is great, but I just don't think the fact we all have our own boundaries with friends/colleagues/family means that a lot of people don't experience the kind of things mentioned in the OP on a daily basis, and often ingrained at a cultural and institutional level.Spitfire76 said:One of the best parts of the pub game is the people you meet & the diversity it brings , i meet so many different walks of life on a daily basis & hear so many different views but as I publican I learnt early on to keep my views to myself & just be more of a listener & advocate.Buckingham university is a private university & therefore there are a lot of foreign students, most of my staff are from the university & are mostly non British , we are a tight knit group & socialise together outside of work & even some of them come to me at Xmas when they are not going home.
Im white & English & take a lot of stick from them for it , this is largely down to the environment I’ve created where we are all equal & there is nothing they can’t say to me , if I do something wrong at work they call me out on it , if I’ve been particularly stressful in service they will tell me , always with good humour as they know that’s not really my nature.
All the white boy or English jokes made about me or to me are taken as the jokes they were intended to be I’ve never taken offence which is why I guess they see it as acceptable to make , I’m sure they would not say the same things if someone they didn’t know was in earshot in case it caused offence .I love Comedy & find jimmy Carr funny , he jokes about risky things , I have a wheelchair bound sister & make risky jokes to her I couldn’t say to another disabled person as she knows me & how heartbroken I am over her situation but she loves the humour & the fact I don’t skip around the situation.
I don’t know what all this means & maybe deep down I’m a racist because I allow people to make jokes about my colour, how my pale ass turns red at the thought of sun or my love of hip hop , grime & drum & bass music & urban fashion but I just don’t find it offensive so it just really doesn’t Bother me but I perfectly accept that some people do .
just another take on it I guess make of me what you will but I don’t consider myself to be a bad person or a racist person6 -
Spitfire76 said:One of the best parts of the pub game is the people you meet & the diversity it brings , i meet so many different walks of life on a daily basis & hear so many different views but as I publican I learnt early on to keep my views to myself & just be more of a listener & advocate.Buckingham university is a private university & therefore there are a lot of foreign students, most of my staff are from the university & are mostly non British , we are a tight knit group & socialise together outside of work & even some of them come to me at Xmas when they are not going home.
Im white & English & take a lot of stick from them for it , this is largely down to the environment I’ve created where we are all equal & there is nothing they can’t say to me , if I do something wrong at work they call me out on it , if I’ve been particularly stressful in service they will tell me , always with good humour as they know that’s not really my nature.
All the white boy or English jokes made about me or to me are taken as the jokes they were intended to be I’ve never taken offence which is why I guess they see it as acceptable to make , I’m sure they would not say the same things if someone they didn’t know was in earshot in case it caused offence .I love Comedy & find jimmy Carr funny , he jokes about risky things , I have a wheelchair bound sister & make risky jokes to her I couldn’t say to another disabled person as she knows me & how heartbroken I am over her situation but she loves the humour & the fact I don’t skip around the situation.
I don’t know what all this means & maybe deep down I’m a racist because I allow people to make jokes about my colour, how my pale ass turns red at the thought of sun or my love of hip hop , grime & drum & bass music & urban fashion but I just don’t find it offensive so it just really doesn’t Bother me but I perfectly accept that some people do .
just another take on it I guess make of me what you will but I don’t consider myself to be a bad person or a racist person
I can't imagine anyone would find anything objectionable in what you've posted. However, if most of the people you encountered in your daily life weren't white, and made the same jokes about you that your colleagues do, and did so frequently, regardless of how well they knew you, I expect your attitude to those jokes would be very different.
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I didn’t see that clip when it was broadcast, but my youngest forwarded it to me and told me how it affected him and that I must watch it. Powerful, thought provoking, and delivered with dignity and eloquence. Michael Holding, an unbelievably good cricketer and an even better human being.seth plum said:Somebody has mentioned Muhammed Ali, and this is a sports forum discussing sport.
Here is a famous brilliant sportsman in action.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IQ-UGwZdKM
And although the famous and successful can sometimes be cosseted from the more everyday grubby nasty aspects of racism, and people often say it is a problem of the past, here is what he says earlier this year.
https://news.sky.com/video/history-is-written-by-the-people-who-do-the-harm-cricket-commentators-view-of-white-privilege-12024274
The very final second of that clip is the most emotive.1 - Sponsored links:
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Could I have that in writing, please?blackpool72 said:
Nosillav nitram said:Interesting, because about 20 years ago I was going out with an Iranian woman and I do remember saying to her, that I thought she was very "Exotic" of course I thought and meant it as a compliment and thankfully she did take it that way.
I wouldn't have thought at the time that it may have been considered as racism and in the context I meant, that compared to my previous relationships, mostly English women, she did seem 'Exotic' .
The definition of Exotic, originating in or characteristic of a distant foreign country.
Was I being a racist, literally one could say yes if going by the definition but was I?0 -
Great post Iceman, as others have said, nice to see you post much more on here.
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My eldest son plays in a Cricket team and he is white British in an all Asian team and in the adults matches I’ve played in this season it’s been pretty much all British Asian in our side .
They love their cricket and so do I all good , the kids have given me an Indian name of Davinder and my son Harinder
all good fun .
I go on the lash with the cricket dads and I’m called the “token” but I’d say it’s easier for me to be in that position in this country.
I don’t really know what I’m getting at , we’re all the same on the inside , these mates are pissheaded perverts like the majority of my mates , it just breaks me when I hear some of the shit they took growing up .
Seriously my mum comes from Ireland if she had come from India or the West Indies I know I wouldn’t have had as simple a life as it has been and that is the saddest thing , just by luck .
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Nicely put Iceman.0
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Really good read @Iceman, thanks for taking the time.
Most people won't know but I come from a family with a mixed heritage - my dad's dad was a black man. I think I've been very lucky in that regard because to imagine someone is of a lesser value because of the colour of their skin is just beyond me.
That said I've learned a lot this year, and in particular about white privilege and racial justice. I used to believe that demographics are a major factor in the lack of black faces in senior positions, for example - after all, they tend to be filled by older people and there is a larger young BAME population than older. This year has taught me that was lazy, and I think there's a lot of lazy thinking on this subject.
On the flip side it's often said that the lack of black managers in the game is an indicator of systemic racism. It might be, but a surprisingly large proportion of professional football clubs have employed a black manager - it can't be the only factor. We look at both sides of the issue with a surprising lack of nuance, which is the main reason I really appreciated your post.
What shook me out of it this year was one simple image, and it really helped me understand the problem. I've shared it below. Linked to the above thinking, I've often opposed Rooney rule kind of solutions because, after all, it's equality of opportunity that counts. After all I've hired people of all racial backgrounds myself and couldn't imagine anyone not hiring the best person for a reason as flimsy as the colour of their skin.
But in the context of Floyd's death and the huge focus that ensured, watching bystanders trying to seek justice whilst the very people charged with serving and protecting them were threatening violence if they intervened to rescue him, the penny dropped that what I was watching was the very definition of injustice. And then I saw the image below:
And I've learned through this. Yes, you're absolutely right we get caught up in binary thinking in this world and it isn't the case that someone who offers a 'micro-aggression' is racist to their soul. We've all said things we don't mean, and we've all made mistakes (ref this very conversation with my mum about her use of the term 'cheeky monkeys', not racist but some would say otherwise). But our white privilege is blinding. It doesn't mean we're privileged, as per Lawrence Fox's ignorant protestations, it means exactly as you describe it - normal life for a person with white skin affords an advantage over someone of different colour that we don't see because, well, it's the norm right? Except this year we've been faced with the uncomfortable truth of our laziness.
So I now talk about racial and social justice rather than equality. Not that we should be colour blind, that's plainly silly, but that it's not and never should be a value differentiator. It's a huge discussion, I envy your relative brevity in making such a powerful argument. Thank you.11 -
I don't agree with every position Michael Holding takes - he can be quite binary - but that interview was outstanding and communicated the issue brilliantly.bobmunro said:
I didn’t see that clip when it was broadcast, but my youngest forwarded it to me and told me how it affected him and that I must watch it. Powerful, thought provoking, and delivered with dignity and eloquence. Michael Holding, an unbelievably good cricketer and an even better human being.seth plum said:Somebody has mentioned Muhammed Ali, and this is a sports forum discussing sport.
Here is a famous brilliant sportsman in action.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IQ-UGwZdKM
And although the famous and successful can sometimes be cosseted from the more everyday grubby nasty aspects of racism, and people often say it is a problem of the past, here is what he says earlier this year.
https://news.sky.com/video/history-is-written-by-the-people-who-do-the-harm-cricket-commentators-view-of-white-privilege-12024274
The very final second of that clip is the most emotive.0 -
Quite. It is one of the reasons why the issue is different here - we have such a self-deprecating sense of humour that we join in with these kind of jokes.Gillis said:Spitfire76 said:One of the best parts of the pub game is the people you meet & the diversity it brings , i meet so many different walks of life on a daily basis & hear so many different views but as I publican I learnt early on to keep my views to myself & just be more of a listener & advocate.Buckingham university is a private university & therefore there are a lot of foreign students, most of my staff are from the university & are mostly non British , we are a tight knit group & socialise together outside of work & even some of them come to me at Xmas when they are not going home.
Im white & English & take a lot of stick from them for it , this is largely down to the environment I’ve created where we are all equal & there is nothing they can’t say to me , if I do something wrong at work they call me out on it , if I’ve been particularly stressful in service they will tell me , always with good humour as they know that’s not really my nature.
All the white boy or English jokes made about me or to me are taken as the jokes they were intended to be I’ve never taken offence which is why I guess they see it as acceptable to make , I’m sure they would not say the same things if someone they didn’t know was in earshot in case it caused offence .I love Comedy & find jimmy Carr funny , he jokes about risky things , I have a wheelchair bound sister & make risky jokes to her I couldn’t say to another disabled person as she knows me & how heartbroken I am over her situation but she loves the humour & the fact I don’t skip around the situation.
I don’t know what all this means & maybe deep down I’m a racist because I allow people to make jokes about my colour, how my pale ass turns red at the thought of sun or my love of hip hop , grime & drum & bass music & urban fashion but I just don’t find it offensive so it just really doesn’t Bother me but I perfectly accept that some people do .
just another take on it I guess make of me what you will but I don’t consider myself to be a bad person or a racist person
I can't imagine anyone would find anything objectionable in what you've posted. However, if most of the people you encountered in your daily life weren't white, and made the same jokes about you that your colleagues do, and did so frequently, regardless of how well they knew you, I expect your attitude to those jokes would be very different.
We should remember that white people's experiences of 'racism' is from a position of power and advantage. The experience of a person of colour is often quite different. I had a conversation earlier this year with a black woman who used to work for me. Thankfully she was very complimentary about my approach to her, but she did say that she hears 'go home' on a weekly basis, and countless intended 'jokes' that actually diminish and differentiate her. You could sense the anger underneath that could easily be dismissed as a 'chip on the shoulder'.
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Really good post @iceman and I agree with all of it. Me and Mrs 3rd were discussing tonight how we beat racism in all its forms, we both agreed that directly calling people out whether in real life or online rarely seems to work as people naturally get defensive. I honestly believe the vast majority of people do not believe they are being racist so all that remains is to educate but how that happens I have absolutely no idea. Its easy when people want to educate themselves but how do you do it when there is a reluctance to learn?
I guess what I'm saying is with all the recent push for bringing racism into the spotlight how much has actually changed? Do protests and public shows make a difference or does it just cause a defensive response from the exact people that it is aimed at?0 -
The key to beating anything like racism is to not be a prick
Something that always gets brought up is the subject of humour and the targets if jokes. I can joke with one of my closest pals who happens to be Indian and he can joke with me because we are like brothers, and I am not talking racial stuff here necessarily although we both take the piss out of each others racial heritage we can do it because we know one another that well. Doesnt mean I or he would do the same with other people because we don't have that bond and I know people get charged up over stuff like that and that falls into the realm of being a prick.
If I have white priveledge which I must have as I am white then having it pointed out to me will get a blank reaction. All I can do is not be a prick and to challenge people acting like pricks when I see it happen. Its easily done sometimes but like stepping in to confrontation and aggressive situations involving strangers it needs to be done with care which is why people pretend they don't hear stuff or see stuff
The panicky and patronising way pretty much every corporate entity goes about doing their best to prove they aren't racists or are very racially aware is pissing me off because I guarantee if you asked them what they are doing and why they wouldn't have clue and would show themselves up with the answer. Ironic when these massive corporations routinely exploit working classes the world over regardless of skin colour but do fuck all about that, such as paying offshore employees a fair wage and treating their employees as human beings.
Still whilst the world doesn't feel as tolerant today as it did 10 years ago I hope the intent is there to educate bigotry and for people to just try and be nicer to one another11 -
Thank you for posting Iceman.1
