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Charlton Athletic v Sunderland | Saturday 3rd October | Post Match Thread

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  • I think that the opening 4 matches have shown us that the full backs position is arguably one of the most important positions on the pitch. Not blaming Deji because he’s not a RB, but we criminally lacked width on that right hand side. 

    We have enough individually but not collectively as a team. I still think we will finish top 6 this season, got enough faith that Bowyer will get it right in the window and will see us winning matches soon.
  • Good point, thought we did well for the last 20 or so minutes at the end  (magically coinciding with the introduction of “barn door” Aneke) and I was impressed with Vennings. This is probably the best timed international break I can think of, now we can get our new signings in and get them acclimatised before we smash Wigan into tiny pieces. 
  • We get an enthusiastic owner of the football club with money and then the players we have, put in two abysmal performances. 
    Compare to the first two home League games last season.

    Charlton 3 Stoke 1(vibrant and exciting performance)
    Charlton 1 Forest 1 (best passing from cafc I have seen in first 45 minutes bar none)

    Two of the best back to back League home games I have seen at the Valley. Considering I have seen about 1100 home League games at the Valley, Selhurst park and Upton Park, so not only am I getting old but I feel my views are still relevent when I do a comparison. 

    Charlton 0 Doncaster 2 ( dire)
    Charlton 0 Sunderland 0 (lucky to get nil)

    No lies, because I'm now watching 3 games a week in the 8th and 9th tier(enjoy going to FA cup preliminary rounds with teams that care about the competition) I fortunately didn't torture myself by watching Valley pass(Terry and Greg: top men) so far this season but if the likes of @Covered End  @MuttleyCAFC and @Blucher (3 of our best analysts, and I will PM you guys where to send the cheques !) feel we are poor then we are poor.

    What a difference a year makes and I'm not talking COVID-19 on this thread.

    When you don't have a shot on target in a League 1 home match you have terrible problems. Thomas Sandgaard wants to be entertained; Charlton folk want to be entertained (as well as the wins) 

    We had an owner who gave 2% of his time to cafc, to an owner who wants a hands on 98% of his time to Charlton Athletic. (Thomas must've a top CEO in his medical company)

    The bar has been raised for Lee Bowyer by Thomas Sandgaard's involvement.
    Great expectations or Bleak house ?
    A tale of two owners.

    (What the Dickens !)

    A critical window awaits.

    Ps. I did see Charlton score 6 in back to back home games against Notts County and Southampton but the saints game was a League cup tie from Memory. 
    Doncaster was 1-3....

    Ok, i will correct, cheers.
  • a point is a point against what will prove to be one of the better teams in this league. The newcomers will soon bed in and we will be up up & away so long as we can bring in a minimum two more players, one attacker, one defender 
  • a point is a point against what will prove to be one of the better teams in this league. The newcomers will soon bed in and we will be up up & away so long as we can bring in a minimum two more players, one attacker, one defender 
    Exac tly,we have to be patient,Sunderland had 2 strikers on the bench that cost 1m plus each,we did not even have a striker on the pitch to start with,also never underestimate what a vocal support can bring,I know all clubs are in the same boat,but that would have been 15000 charlton fans there yesterday willing the lads on.Once we have proper strikers we will see the best of Levitt and Watson who had no choice but to either go square or hit hopefull long balls.
  • JonT_Abs said:
    We had a reserve center back playing right back, an aging  midfield work horse center back, an average left back (which we're lucky to have), 2 young inexperinced kids with potential in MF, another young kid who's gone from LB to wing back to second striker, a rusty ol'pro midfielder and a striker who's just come out of Covid quarntine.

    Admittedly I dont think Oztumer is great.

    Oh, and the club has been under the control of a bunch of charlatans/ criminals for the last 9 months which led to a transfer ban and us being extremely close to going into administration/finished just a couple of weeks ago 

    By some incredible stroke of luck Sandgaard has come from absolutely knowhere to take us on and hopefully take us forward. 

    ...but yet people are pissing their pants over todays performance 

    I remember the Deon Burton years 
    this is a good post and sets the context of the current side which will hopefully be transformed over the next couple of weeks -but looking just at the game itself,  it was a piss poor performance and we had zero threat until chuks and maddison came on. My first watch of the season - Vennings and Levitt were completely anonymous and watson is a plodder who will need the rest around him to be right, to be of use. Oshalaja is piss poor, pratley is no centre half, norwich bloke didn't impress, purrington is ok but limited. amos did well. washington is not a lone striker, doughty has gone backwards and otzumer was poor - we were lucky not to be two down at half time and on balance probably should have lost. It was painful. I have faith in TS and LB to put it right   
  • Good to have Tommy in the commentary box for the first 20 mins.He was very positive and brings a breath of thresh air to the club(and a big bank account).Could never imagine Roland ever doing the same.Did make me laugh though whilst Greg reffered to Tommy as Thomas - Terry frequently called him Mr Sandgaard like a nervous school pupil talking to his master.
    Happy days
  • edited October 2020
    a point is a point against what will prove to be one of the better teams in this league. The newcomers will soon bed in and we will be up up & away so long as we can bring in a minimum two more players, one attacker, one defender 
    Exac tly,we have to be patient,Sunderland had 2 strikers on the bench that cost 1m plus each,we did not even have a striker on the pitch to start with,also never underestimate what a vocal support can bring,I know all clubs are in the same boat,but that would have been 15000 charlton fans there yesterday willing the lads on.Once we have proper strikers we will see the best of Levitt and Watson who had no choice but to either go square or hit hopefull long balls.
    Or some of the 15000 fans totally naffed off with that first half performance getting on the players backs?

    Personally I think the empty stadium worked in the team's favour second half yesterday mind you it couldn't get much worse than what preceded it 😞.
  • SamB09 said:
    Off_it said:
    Present day football fans give my a*** a headache.

    Years ago managers got x years contracts and left to get on with it.

    Bowyer has shown what he can do with limited resources, hopefully Sandgaard will give him the tools to get us promoted, it may not be this season.

    The club needs a total overhaul, Rome was not built in a day.
    You are aware that you have to score goals to win games. 1 in the last 3 games. No shots on target today (I've seen the Sky highlights and Doughty's "shot" was a cross that their keeper easily saved by the near post)

    Yes, one of our strikers left yesterday leaving us short up front but Davison is a striker if Bows wanted to play 2 up front and the midfield ARE allowed to shoot......perhaps someone should tell them.  

    Also, nothing seems to have changed regarding corners. I didnt watch the match today but Cawley's Twitter feed was a cut & paste of the last 50 games......"Corner comes to nothing" or "corner cleared". Once, just once, it would be nice to read.  "corner swung over & thumped in by Washington".

    If Bows wants to keep his job he might want to think about changing his tactics.....or his set piece man !!
    Unbelievable. Truly unbelievable. I sometimes wonder what planet some of our fans are on.

    The bloke has worked miracles since he's been here. Sure, he's not immune from criticism, but any talk of him getting the sack is ludicrous. Bonkers.
    Disagree. He just had the right players at the right time, like any manager really. I’ve always struggled to believe that a manager is key to success rather than than the players in a team though.
    And how did bowyer got those right players?

    out of the starting 11 at Wembley, the following were given an extended run or signed by bowyer

    Phillips
    dijksteel (spelling)
    purrington
    bielik (spelling)
    cullen
    aribo
    taylor
    Parker

    sub Williams 

    Bowyer built that team and got them playing his way. Given time, he will do it again 

    bowyer was also the first manager to give grant an extended run! 

    I’m not a footballer or manager and never will be, but what I can see is that given time and backing, bowyer can drag this club back from this shit show in our history, stabilise is and get us pushing for the championship play offs within 5 years.
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  • On holiday so this will be short. Only started looking dangerous when Aneke came on. 
  • Good to have Tommy in the commentary box for the first 20 mins.He was very positive and brings a breath of thresh air to the club(and a big bank account).Could never imagine Roland ever doing the same.Did make me laugh though whilst Greg reffered to Tommy as Thomas - Terry frequently called him Mr Sandgaard like a nervous school pupil talking to his master.
    Happy days

    Disappointed to hear the name calling by Greg and Terry ?
    Thomas Sandgaard has to be addressed as "His Excellency" 
  • I think nearly all the comments are justified.
    Most of us expected the team to be poor and the team were poor.
    Most of us were expecting defeat and hoping for a point.
    So most of us are happy with a point.
    But it doesn't alter the fact that it was shockingly poor.

    However I haven't read one person "having a go" unfairly at the players, purely "saying what they saw".
    There was also only one person out of perhaps a hundred suggesting that Bowyer's job is already at risk.
    I agree.  I think the majority of it was simply ranting at the performance, recognising the fact that the last few months have been a shit show and this was what we have as a result of it, for now.

    The only concern, is that I would be looking to add more than the 3 or 4 being mooted.

    at the moment, I personally see the following gaps 

    Amos 

    RB CB Famewo LB

    Watson

    Maddison Gilbey Doughty 

    Washington CF


    I would add we need another forward, and possibly a bruiser in the middle of the park to really break up the play.  For me, the likes of Oshilaja, JFC, Purrington etc are too close to the starting line up by default.  Full backs are definitely a problem, especially when we play a diamond as they have to absorb more pressure.

    The likes of Wlliams and Oztumer need to show more, but I don’t think they will based on what we’ve come to see, plus, as much as I like Prately for what he’s done and how committed he’s been, I don’t think his name should be on the team sheet week in, week out.  I might be being harsh, I just think it’s not enough 
  • Can we get Adam Matthews in?
  • Reading posts saying bowyer should go, look at our first two home games last season compared to this season are winding me up 

    since those first two home games last season, we have been in turmoil off the pitch and under an embargo for an entire window and half of a current one. We have only been able to sign players for 9 days, about 2 months behind the other 23 teams in the league!! 

    In terms of numbers and players bowyer wants, we are probably on a par with when bowyer took over and under him we have had two play off finishes and a very brave battle against relegation!!

    bowyer has looked mentally drained, now he has a supportive chairman and a fighting chance.

    i think it’s @oohaahmortimer who predicts our final position (skim read - apologies), I bet he has us finishing around the play offs again this year, which will happen.  Its four games in FFS, i get that we are poor but give Bowyer and tommy time to bring players in and we will improve. 

    The last 3 games have been disappointing but Bowyer is currently 100% the right man to move us forward so please, think before you rant and cut him some slack.
    Reminder too what the League table was like in terms of points in March!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_EFL_League_One#League_table

    Would actually be more shocked if there wasnt a repeat this season or if it was even tighter... No one has had a proper pre-season (when I say that I mean clubs rather than focusing on our players), its alright playing every Saturday at the moment but bet there are teams that are going to start hurting by the time we get to November because thats when we start playing two games a week so will start to separate the serious from those purely on a good run.

    Eight points from Lincoln and Ipswich might seem a lot at the moment but it can be easily clawed back at the moment
  • seth plum said:
    Can we get Adam Matthews in?
    He doesn’t want to play for us. He’s waiting for a championship side to sign him. 
  • Carter said:
    Dull game, Sunderland should have been 2 nil up by half time one amazingly bad finish and one excellent save ensured it was even

    Only 2 of the back 4 were playing in their natural positions. Famewo was man of the match, did not put a foot wrong and goes for the ball like he means it

    Midfield lacked dynamism, Levitt is going to be a good passer of the ball but needs to learn how to move it short first and create a bit of space. He will hit his stride I am sure and start unlocking teams but he was a bit frustrating today, had a very heavy touch on most of what he hit but I hope he doesn't give that up, just needs to be less naive about the value of retaining possession.

    Williams was a threat when he came on and got his usual few kicks for his trouble. Maddison looks like we will love him very quickly, very direct, looked to make things happen and wanted the ball and his delivery was promising more so from the free kick than the corner 

    Washington worked his bollocks off and will get goals, he needs service though. Doughty was closely marked all game and we need some of our other players to realise this and make use of the space that creates.

    Chuks can really make a difference and he did today, I remain a fan

    Overall a good point that most of us would have taken before the game and given that we now have it all to do to bring bodies in with a wage cap and ensure those bodies will improve and affect the squad in a fortnight. Easier said than done 

    Amos is still a good goalkeeper, commands his box really well and saved us the point

    Good way to enter the international break
    I like this post, reading others I was wondering if we were going to get another point this season.
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  • edited October 2020
    I thought we were brilliant and should have been 4-0 up at HT.

    By far the better team throughout and thought we dominated proceedings.

    And then I woke up.
  • Sorry if it rankled with Toddy pointing out how far we have fallen since the first two home games last season But I did say Bowyer should still be given 100% support because of the terrible hand he was dealt.
    Last season is now history and Lee Bowyer now needs to get the best out of this squad and the players who come in this window and the next one.

    I always think a football forum is for adult debate and constructive criticism that is why I praise as well as question players playing out of position in which opposition managers can exploit. I can only recall Joe Gomez having one poor game for Cafc and that was when he played LB.  Imagine my surprise when his debut was at LB for Liverpool. Having better player in front and besides him the opposition couldn't exploit the fact he couldn't tackle very well with his left foot. (Joe did give a penalty away playing LB in his second match playing in his weakest position. Joe Gomez is a CB, decent at RB but no Trent Alexander-Arnold.

    I agree in many ways that this should be a free hit this season for Lee, but TS calls the shots and I'm not convinced he will see it that way.

  • I have been watching Charlton for 55 years.  Today's game and the appallingly bad performance against Donny a fortnight ago really are the pits.  This is the lowest of the low.  Certainly, I witnessed some grimly barren spells at Selhurst when we didn't win for 15 games or more - but that was at a much higher level, with much better players.

    This is the Third Division, and our inability to master even the most basic technical skills of ball control is shocking. Yes, I know this is a squad in transition if not dispersal, and under Sandgaard the future might - just might - be bright.  But I'm not talking about that - I'm looking closely at our every move throughout 90 minutes.

    The unforced errors, the stumbles and fluffs, the balls misplaced and overhit, the sheer confusion: players' lack of awareness of others!  It's all a random shambles, a weak and incoherent mess.  Maddison looked more capable than anyone - an agile header off the line at the death - Pratley is a strong influence, and Amos might turn out to be OK.  But the rest of them...  Sorry, but the answer is No.
    But apart from that, i take it you enjoyed the game then?
  • Some peoples sheets must have been soaked this morning.

    Post match analysis, Sandgaard is the man to take this club forward. Bowyer, Jacko and Gallen will be the men who take the club forward, but without being disrespectful, most of our players won't. We really lack in qualify, even at league 1 level.

    I reckon we will need two seasons to get out of this league, unless we have an incredible window from here on out. 

    We should be patient though, look where we were a few weeks ago, I'm happy for a mediocre season in league 1 knowing my club is in safe hands for the next, for now.
    This is far too sensible, be ashamed.
  • Glad we got a clean sheet. Not quite as thrilling as the Wembley game but hey ho.
  • edited October 2020
    Don't thing you really understand Thomas Sandgaard.
    A mediocre season isn't on the menu; top 6 is a minimum requirement.
    Not my words but the words of TS.

    The thing is there is very little he can do about it. Unless he wants to challenge the EFL over the wage cap then mediocre/has beens/ out of contract / loans will be the pool we are fishing in. You might unearth the odd gem or hidden talent......but not 6 or 7 of them. 

    The last 2 times we have been in this League it has taken us 3 years to get out. Sadly I dont see that changing. 
  • The big concern for me was that I just didn’t see a gameplay yesterday (only watched last 20 of first half and then about 25 mins of second admittedly). 

    I’m not calling for Bowyer to go and I wouldn’t even if we carry on struggling for a couple of months. He’s stuck by us and we owe him time at the very least. 

    We need players and you would hope that yesterday’s team will be a lot weaker than the one we’re able to field in a months time. But for me that doesn’t excuse the lack of tactics, including switching formation unnecessarily mid way through the first half. We didn’t lose but having watched some of it back we were very fortunate. Bowyer has had excuses and has had to work in some horrific circumstances, but I am a bit concerned he has no idea what formation to play with the current group. He’s not getting the best out of players like Williams or Oztumer either. Players need to take responsibility obviously, we really need to start seeing more from them. The squad isn’t massively weak at this level. 

    In fairness, it’s not the time to judge. Hopefully we can pick up another couple of quality players and pick up pretty swiftly. 
  • Good to have Tommy in the commentary box for the first 20 mins.He was very positive and brings a breath of thresh air to the club(and a big bank account).Could never imagine Roland ever doing the same.Did make me laugh though whilst Greg reffered to Tommy as Thomas - Terry frequently called him Mr Sandgaard like a nervous school pupil talking to his master.
    Happy days

    Disappointed to hear the name calling by Greg and Terry ?
    Thomas Sandgaard has to be addressed as "His Excellency" 
    Wow, those were the days. How they strung us along that people were actually calling Nimer HE. So glad I was never a cap-doffer.
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