Three excellent points in very bad conditions including a crap pitch. it was not going to be a pretty affair but we dug in and deserved the win. i never realised what a bad sportsman Northampton’s manager is, considering how the referee never gave us anything and gave them considerably more free kicks than they deserved.
another good result got to do it again Tuesday 👍👍👍
Three excellent points in very bad conditions including a crap pitch. it was not going to be a pretty affair but we dug in and deserved the win. i never realised what a bad sportsman Northampton’s manager is, considering how the referee never gave us anything and gave them considerably more free kicks than they deserved.
another good result got to do it again Tuesday 👍👍👍
I haven't seen any quotes, what did he say?
Some post match comments here - if you think Bowyer talks a lot about referees you've seen nothing yet
Curle unimpressed by Charlton's 'showmanship' in trying to get Racic sent off
Town boss 'confused' by some of the officiating during League One fixture
Keith Curle insisted his side should have had a first-half spot-kick and he also accused Charlton Athletic of 'showmanship' in trying to get defender Luka Racic sent off during Saturday's defeat at the the PTS.
Racic was harshly booked for a clean tackle on Paul Smyth 15 minutes in and the Charlton man seemed determined to turn it into a red card after again going down theatrically later in the first-half.
Referee Sam Allison, in charge of his first ever League One fixture, was surrounded by Charlton players on more than one occasion and that did not impress Curle, who also felt his side should have had a penalty for a foul on Danny Rose.
"It should have been a penalty," said Curle. "I thought, as an experienced group as they are, they worked the referee very well. They bought some free-kicks with their showmanship and reactions to contact. Going down with a squeal attracts the attention of the referee and I think they earned a few free-kicks.
"The lad Smyth got Luka booked when Luka's won the ball and the kid is rolling around - he had nothing more than a twisted sock! Then, anytime Luka went anywhere near them, they're all screaming, they're all getting into the referee, 'he's been booked! He's been booked!' and that's not something I like, but I understand it.
"I'm still a little bit confused with Luka's booking because the fourth official said he went through the back of him. I'm there thinking, well, no, he hasn't gone through the back of him. He's gone in at the side and won the ball cleanly and I didn't think tackling from the side was an offence.
"Then, the second one, there was nothing in that challenge. Luka won the ball but, again, the reaction of their play was as if there was contact. I know he didn't make contact. I wouldn't say it's the horrible side of the game but it's part and parcel of the game in terms of trying to influence the referee that there may have been contact."
Three excellent points in very bad conditions including a crap pitch. it was not going to be a pretty affair but we dug in and deserved the win. i never realised what a bad sportsman Northampton’s manager is, considering how the referee never gave us anything and gave them considerably more free kicks than they deserved.
another good result got to do it again Tuesday 👍👍👍
I haven't seen any quotes, what did he say?
Some post match comments here - if you think Bowyer talks a lot about referees you've seen nothing yet
Hmm, sounds like sour grapes to me. I thought the ref got the decisions right. As to the players, that is for the ref to handle, but if indeed we are becoming a bit streetwise it'll make a change from years of being a soft touch to other teams antics.
Our defence is very sound but the rest pretty much clueless despite the effort.
Smyth looks like Simon Church but with a weaker shot and Bogle like a slower version of Magennis if if that's possible. If either of them score more than five goals this season it will be a miracle.
Pretty much no midfield until Pratley appeared.
No chances created and two goals.
Don't be deceived by the score. That was bang average league 1 rubbish but we won.
This guy definitely sends his steak back to the kitchen when he ordered a medium rare but it comes out medium. Not arsed one bit if this is a whoosh!
I think Curle has a point regarding us being in the referees ear, particularly on the second challenge from the player who had been booked. Having said that, I don’t think it was OTT, I think it’s just part and parcel of the game now, same as milking challenges and diving. Can’t say I’m a fan but unfortunately isn’t going anyway anytime soon.
He is a good manager. No manager is truly a great sportsman. They are all understandably biased. As are we fans. We watch the same game and one side think they are hard done by decisions and the other thinks they are.
Playing the ref is part of the game too. And the better the ref, the harder it is to do. Considering he is a new ref, I thought yesterday's one was ok. Mind you I thought the ref for Blackpool was good and some disagree with me! That is the game.
Personally thought Gunter had a great game, totally controlled his side, covered up some messes from other players, did a couple of vital corner clearances and added presence up front on occasion, but he gets 'solid' 7's generally on the marks whilst Famewo, who made real errors with the wind, gets higher marks. Is it genuinely harder to score high as a full back, or did I miss something?
Personally thought Gunter had a great game, totally controlled his side, covered up some messes from other players, did a couple of vital corner clearances and added presence up front on occasion, but he gets 'solid' 7's generally on the marks whilst Famewo, who made real errors with the wind, gets higher marks. Is it genuinely harder to score high as a full back, or did I miss something?
I think expectations play a part. We expect Chris to be good - and he is. No one had heard of Famewo and we are pleasantly surprised at just how good he is for a youngster.
Seem to remember people decrying Levitt, but note that he had a pass accuracy of 71.4% Smyth on the other hand only 27.3% I know Levitt is midfield and Smyth forward, but seems quite a difference in quality
To be fair to Smyth, there was probably a big difference in difficulty of passes attempted!
Fair point, i was only following the match thread, and assume you watched via a stream, so really does prove if your assessment is correct that statistics are only of very limited value, and don't give a fair vision, but only to be taken as a guide
Yeah, I too am very unimpressed so far with Levitt. Having said that l don't see Smyth scoring many goals. He has a good touch and is skillful but doesn't look like getting into good scoring positions or have a decent shot in him. He makes a good contribution though which I can't say about Levitt.
These two players are probably the two of our new players that interest me the least. Our new back four, on the other hand, look like the dog's bollocks.
I'll stick up for Smyth, I see what he's doing. Defenders,central defenders especially dont like pace. He takes a lot of whacks for the cause too and has a fairly long throw
I agree he won't score a lot but he will won free kicks, stretch teams and put sides under pressure from throws. He is an excellent through ball option, grafter.
Seem to remember people decrying Levitt, but note that he had a pass accuracy of 71.4% Smyth on the other hand only 27.3% I know Levitt is midfield and Smyth forward, but seems quite a difference in quality
To be fair to Smyth, there was probably a big difference in difficulty of passes attempted!
Fair point, i was only following the match thread, and assume you watched via a stream, so really does prove if your assessment is correct that statistics are only of very limited value, and don't give a fair vision, but only to be taken as a guide
Yeah, I too am very unimpressed so far with Levitt. Having said that l don't see Smyth scoring many goals. He has a good touch and is skillful but doesn't look like getting into good scoring positions or have a decent shot in him. He makes a good contribution though which I can't say about Levitt.
These two players are probably the two of our new players that interest me the least. Our new back four, on the other hand, look like the dog's bollocks.
In terms of Levitt, sometimes a big fish in a small pond needs a bit of time to impose his game on the level when it becomes more challenging. Levitt falls into this category for me, even if he is an international. He is a tidy passer but even at this level, he will have less time on the ball. There is also an increased physicality to adapt to. I'm sure he will adapt, but it may take a while and that is probably why he is with us. They all can't hit the ground running like Gallagher did.
Just caught up on the last few pages. On Watson, I can see him changing some opinions of him by the end of the season. He’s better on the ball than he’s been given credit for and he’s shown signs of a good range of passing.
Bowyer knows a good CM when he sees one and Watson was called the ginger Pirlo for a reason. He’s going to be more than just back up for Pratley.
I expect him to get better, especially with a midfield that includes Shinnie, Gilbey and Maddison in front of him. He’s obviously not as mobile as Bielik but I think he’ll prove just as valuable when he does play.
Things don’t always work out the way you expect or hope (Hemed and Kayal...) but they midfield is potentially as good as Bielik, Cullen, Aribo and Williams. That might get a few LOLs but Bielik was inconsistent when he fist played (once subbed off at half time, just like Levitt), Aribo developed into a goalscoring midfielder, he didn’t start that way, and Maddison has an excellent goals and assists record at this level, something that Williams doesn’t have.
Up front we're not as strong as when we had Grant and Taylor, but they’ll get better service once we’re playing a stronger midfield and add Gilbey and Maddison into the mix.
A lot of our sides in recent years wouldn’t have got a win on Saturday. In 11/12 we often read opposition fans after a game saying “Charlton aren’t that good”, but being good at this level is about consistently getting results, not playing the most attractive football or dominating possession in every game. This is a really promising start, even more so given the circumstances.
I like Pratley too. When he first joined us, there were a lot of voices asking what the point of Pratley was. I think he has stuffed those voices down people's throats. But it is true he took a while to find his place in the side. He feels like the heartbeat of the side now, on and off the pitch, and we are lucky to have him. It is great to see how he has turned that start around and become a Charlton hero. When he hangs up his boots, that is something that will remain and he will always be welcome at the Valley.
Our midfield "balance" problems aren't unique to us by any stretch.
I think it's a symptom of the way kids are identified, positioned and coached in the academies. They seem to knock out cookie cutter attacking full backs, number 10s, vanilla holding midfielders, wide forwards and sod all else.
All of our midfielders are very, very good at somethings and totally toilet at everything else. I suppose if they weren't totally pants at thier weeknesses they wouldn't be playing in league 1.
I think Bowyer chooses players, especially midfielders, who he thinks can make a difference and either coach or cover up thier weaknesses. As opposed to someone who is all right at most ascpets but not outstanding at anything.
I don't think we have 3 central midfielders that would make a perfect 3, a better 3 than Saturday, probably. Heaven forbid we tried playing 442 with Maddison and Doughty wide.
3 at the back is becoming fashionable again because even the best clubs and managers don't have the 2 midfielders any more. It appears everyone now plays 352, 433, 4231or 451 primarily for that reason.
I like Pratley too. When he first joined us, there were a lot of voices asking what the point of Pratley was. I think he has stuffed those voices down people's throats. But it is true he took a while to find his place in the side. He feels like the heartbeat of the side now, on and off the pitch, and we are lucky to have him. It is great to see how he has turned that start around and become a Charlton hero. When he hangs up his boots, that is something that will remain and he will always be welcome at the Valley.
Dear god. Is this what my Sarr worship looked like to the rest of you?
Our midfield "balance" problems aren't unique to us by any stretch.
I think it's a symptom of the way kids are identified, positioned and coached in the academies. They seem to knock out cookie cutter attacking full backs, number 10s, vanilla holding midfielders, wide forwards and sod all else.
All of our midfielders are very, very good at somethings and totally toilet at everything else. I suppose if they weren't totally pants at thier weeknesses they wouldn't be playing in league 1.
I think Bowyer chooses players, especially midfielders, who he thinks can make a difference and either coach or cover up thier weaknesses. As opposed to someone who is all right at most ascpets but not outstanding at anything.
I don't think we have 3 central midfielders that would make a perfect 3, a better 3 than Saturday, probably. Heaven forbid we tried playing 442 with Maddison and Doughty wide.
3 at the back is becoming fashionable again because even the best clubs and managers don't have the 2 midfielders any more. It appears everyone now plays 352, 433, 4231or 451 primarily for that reason.
I think your last paragraph explains your second. The OS said and probably still says our academy teams play in a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 diamond formation. Young CMs don’t grow up playing in a flat 4-4-2 with one or both CMs playing box to box, and I expect that’s the same at a lot of other clubs.
Our midfield "balance" problems aren't unique to us by any stretch.
I think it's a symptom of the way kids are identified, positioned and coached in the academies. They seem to knock out cookie cutter attacking full backs, number 10s, vanilla holding midfielders, wide forwards and sod all else.
All of our midfielders are very, very good at somethings and totally toilet at everything else. I suppose if they weren't totally pants at thier weeknesses they wouldn't be playing in league 1.
I think Bowyer chooses players, especially midfielders, who he thinks can make a difference and either coach or cover up thier weaknesses. As opposed to someone who is all right at most ascpets but not outstanding at anything.
I don't think we have 3 central midfielders that would make a perfect 3, a better 3 than Saturday, probably. Heaven forbid we tried playing 442 with Maddison and Doughty wide.
3 at the back is becoming fashionable again because even the best clubs and managers don't have the 2 midfielders any more. It appears everyone now plays 352, 433, 4231or 451 primarily for that reason.
I think your last paragraph explains your second. The OS said and probably still says our academy teams play in a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 diamond formation. Young CMs don’t grow up playing in a flat 4-4-2 with one or both CMs playing box to box, and I expect that’s the same at a lot of other clubs.
I accept that's the case but it almost feels like they are knocking out cookie cutter players and it's become acceptable that players are primarily good at either defending or attacking and you just pick 5 of each. Except center halves and goalkeeprs who's footballing ability seems to be more highly valued than actually defending and keeping the ball out of the net.
I also think it's totally knock the character and leadership qualities out of players. They all seem to need the manager to change it at half time. It's why Henderson is much more valuable than his "performance levels" as he seems to be one of the very few players that can actually captain a team on the pitch.
I like Pratley too. When he first joined us, there were a lot of voices asking what the point of Pratley was. I think he has stuffed those voices down people's throats. But it is true he took a while to find his place in the side. He feels like the heartbeat of the side now, on and off the pitch, and we are lucky to have him. It is great to see how he has turned that start around and become a Charlton hero. When he hangs up his boots, that is something that will remain and he will always be welcome at the Valley.
Dear god. Is this what my Sarr worship looked like to the rest of you?
1) The sort of victory that really will ensure we finish in the top 6. Howling winds, lashing down with rain and a bumpy pitch don't lend themselves to good football so a fighting display was called for. And got.
2) But LB really should look at the weather forecast! Not starting with either Pratley or Watson in those conditions was strange.
3) Great to see there appeared to be a really good bond between the players already - evident on a number of occasions. Inniss and Famewo in particular already look to have established a great partnership.
4) I never understood the criticism aimed at Ben Amos by many at the start of the season. What short memories many must have if they couldn't remember he was rock solid in the season he was on loan. (And remember that save at Shrewsbury in the play off semi-final - outstanding). He was outstanding today - not only a couple of great saves but brilliant handling of crosses in really difficult conditions.
5) I totally accept you don't play at the "greatest club in the world" (copyright MUFC) and for your country at a young age without a huge amount of talent. But at the moment young Levitt looks completely lost - he was awful against Sunderland (still shudder at his free kick attempts) and no-where today. I hope he comes good but I see nothing to persuade me he offers a lot more than our own youngsters at the moment.
6) Paul Smyth reminds me of Paul Dickov - an annoying, irritating sort of player who bites your ankles. But I'm afraid he doesn't have Dickov's goalscoring ability and, as I said after he made his debut, I doubt he will score more than a handful of goals for us. And whilst obviously skilful, his lack of presence means he will get smashed about by the brutes most teams have at the back. If he is going to play, he is surely more use in wide midfield than up front.
7) And finally, well played the referee. As I understand that was his first game, I thought he handled the game really well. Carry on like that and hopefully he will move up the ranks quickly.
The save from Pitman against Pompey from the deflected free kick was just as good from memory
If you are looking at a midfield three, ideally you want a bit of bite, a bit of creativity and a few goals. I think the midfield for the second half ticked those boxes decently enough. Perfection is having players that contribute all three. It isn't a criticism of Levitt, but in the circumstances, including pitch conditions, we lacked that bit of bite that Pratley injected when he was introduced.
Comments
https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/curle-unimpressed-charltons-showmanship-trying-get-racic-sent-3014381
Curle unimpressed by Charlton's 'showmanship' in trying to get Racic sent off
Town boss 'confused' by some of the officiating during League One fixture
Keith Curle insisted his side should have had a first-half spot-kick and he also accused Charlton Athletic of 'showmanship' in trying to get defender Luka Racic sent off during Saturday's defeat at the the PTS.
Racic was harshly booked for a clean tackle on Paul Smyth 15 minutes in and the Charlton man seemed determined to turn it into a red card after again going down theatrically later in the first-half.
Referee Sam Allison, in charge of his first ever League One fixture, was surrounded by Charlton players on more than one occasion and that did not impress Curle, who also felt his side should have had a penalty for a foul on Danny Rose.
"It should have been a penalty," said Curle. "I thought, as an experienced group as they are, they worked the referee very well. They bought some free-kicks with their showmanship and reactions to contact. Going down with a squeal attracts the attention of the referee and I think they earned a few free-kicks.
"The lad Smyth got Luka booked when Luka's won the ball and the kid is rolling around - he had nothing more than a twisted sock! Then, anytime Luka went anywhere near them, they're all screaming, they're all getting into the referee, 'he's been booked! He's been booked!' and that's not something I like, but I understand it.
"I'm still a little bit confused with Luka's booking because the fourth official said he went through the back of him. I'm there thinking, well, no, he hasn't gone through the back of him. He's gone in at the side and won the ball cleanly and I didn't think tackling from the side was an offence.
"Then, the second one, there was nothing in that challenge. Luka won the ball but, again, the reaction of their play was as if there was contact. I know he didn't make contact. I wouldn't say it's the horrible side of the game but it's part and parcel of the game in terms of trying to influence the referee that there may have been contact."
I thought the ref got the decisions right.
As to the players, that is for the ref to handle, but if indeed we are becoming a bit streetwise it'll make a change from years of being a soft touch to other teams antics.
Playing the ref is part of the game too. And the better the ref, the harder it is to do. Considering he is a new ref, I thought yesterday's one was ok. Mind you I thought the ref for Blackpool was good and some disagree with me! That is the game.
These two players are probably the two of our new players that interest me the least. Our new back four, on the other hand, look like the dog's bollocks.
I agree he won't score a lot but he will won free kicks, stretch teams and put sides under pressure from throws. He is an excellent through ball option, grafter.
Bowyer knows a good CM when he sees one and Watson was called the ginger Pirlo for a reason. He’s going to be more than just back up for Pratley.
I expect him to get better, especially with a midfield that includes Shinnie, Gilbey and Maddison in front of him. He’s obviously not as mobile as Bielik but I think he’ll prove just as valuable when he does play.
Things don’t always work out the way you expect or hope (Hemed and Kayal...) but they midfield is potentially as good as Bielik, Cullen, Aribo and Williams. That might get a few LOLs but Bielik was inconsistent when he fist played (once subbed off at half time, just like Levitt), Aribo developed into a goalscoring midfielder, he didn’t start that way, and Maddison has an excellent goals and assists record at this level, something that Williams doesn’t have.
Up front we're not as strong as when we had Grant and Taylor, but they’ll get better service once we’re playing a stronger midfield and add Gilbey and Maddison into the mix.
A lot of our sides in recent years wouldn’t have got a win on Saturday. In 11/12 we often read opposition fans after a game saying “Charlton aren’t that good”, but being good at this level is about consistently getting results, not playing the most attractive football or dominating possession in every game. This is a really promising start, even more so given the circumstances.
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/darren-pratley-says-he-saw-shades-of-lyle-taylor-in-himself-as-he-opened-scoring-for-charlton-at-northampton/
I think it's a symptom of the way kids are identified, positioned and coached in the academies. They seem to knock out cookie cutter attacking full backs, number 10s, vanilla holding midfielders, wide forwards and sod all else.
All of our midfielders are very, very good at somethings and totally toilet at everything else. I suppose if they weren't totally pants at thier weeknesses they wouldn't be playing in league 1.
I think Bowyer chooses players, especially midfielders, who he thinks can make a difference and either coach or cover up thier weaknesses. As opposed to someone who is all right at most ascpets but not outstanding at anything.
I don't think we have 3 central midfielders that would make a perfect 3, a better 3 than Saturday, probably. Heaven forbid we tried playing 442 with Maddison and Doughty wide.
3 at the back is becoming fashionable again because even the best clubs and managers don't have the 2 midfielders any more. It appears everyone now plays 352, 433, 4231or 451 primarily for that reason.
I also think it's totally knock the character and leadership qualities out of players. They all seem to need the manager to change it at half time. It's why Henderson is much more valuable than his "performance levels" as he seems to be one of the very few players that can actually captain a team on the pitch.