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Trust meeting with Sandgaard
Comments
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I've got a feeling that just as Charlton hit the Premier league big time again, the Football TV money bubble will burst with a vengeance. This is Charlton after all.24
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Whenever I buy the stream, I've had at least 2/3 others every time be able to use my login to watch from their own house on their own devicethickandthin63 said:Think the stream is good value,and easy to access,up to now i have had season ticket holding relations join me so 4 of us every game ,would suspect many others the same equating to 12-15000 watching.Figures might now go up with gatherings now illegal.One annoyance,the replays consistently being shown while play is in progress.0 -
I don't think it's thousands of fans being locked out that is the issue, it's the dozens of corporate guests that there is no space for. Wimbledon's new ground has at least 3x as many executive boxes as The Valley, it's an area we are seriously deficient in and one I'm sure TS will be keen to address. That's going to take big money, which he won't spend unless he has the ground.Rothko said:There's still a fair few years until The Valley isn't suitable, I don't really see the need for expansion until you have thousands locked out on a regular basis, and its always seems expensive to expand, 27k seems alright, if you can get to 32k it puts you on par with Leicester, Southampton, Sheffield United and Brighton, and sees about right for a club of our size.
I always thought it would be a good idea to replace the top tier of the West with a half dozen rows of posh seats (club Charlton with access to an expanded Vista lounge) and two stories of executive boxes. However that would mean putting 5000 seats somewhere else to maintain capacity, so redevelopment of the South end of the ground. You could do both and increate capacity to 32k relatively easily, but not without owning the ground.4 -
What about Covid-19 restrictions ?thickandthin63 said:Think the stream is good value,and easy to access,up to now i have had season ticket holding relations join me so 4 of us every game ,would suspect many others the same equating to 12-15000 watching.Figures might now go up with gatherings now illegal.One annoyance,the replays consistently being shown while play is in progress.0 -
Yeah, the growth to 32k would probably be driven by corporate seats, 5,000 extra general admission seat is by the by, but being on par would be to expand the corporate facilities.randy andy said:
I don't think it's thousands of fans being locked out that is the issue, it's the dozens of corporate guests that there is no space for. Wimbledon's new ground has at least 3x as many executive boxes as The Valley, it's an area we are seriously deficient in and one I'm sure TS will be keen to address. That's going to take big money, which he won't spend unless he has the ground.Rothko said:There's still a fair few years until The Valley isn't suitable, I don't really see the need for expansion until you have thousands locked out on a regular basis, and its always seems expensive to expand, 27k seems alright, if you can get to 32k it puts you on par with Leicester, Southampton, Sheffield United and Brighton, and sees about right for a club of our size.
I always thought it would be a good idea to replace the top tier of the West with a half dozen rows of posh seats (club Charlton with access to an expanded Vista lounge) and two stories of executive boxes. However that would mean putting 5000 seats somewhere else to maintain capacity, so redevelopment of the South end of the ground. You could do both and increate capacity to 32k relatively easily, but not without owning the ground.0 -
So 32k is top for our support in the premier League?.1
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No, we'll build a new stadium at Plumstead bus garageValley27000 said:So 32k is top for our support in the premier League?.7 -
For me personally, the 'benefits' you speak of are a sideshow. I would feel the same whatever the circumstances of leaving. I have zero tolerance towards any mention of the idea.Cafc43v3r said:
If anyone came out and said:jimmymelrose said:Very very pleasing to read TS's thoughts and about his ambitions. The only negative for me is his willingness to possibly sacrifice The Valley for his European dream. I know which of these is the most important to me.
I know that he says that he wouldn't do it without fan consultation but once we get the new 'Premier League' and 'happy clappy' fans on board, we know which way this vote would go. By then fans like me will just be labelled as grumpy old bastards who can't 'move with the times.'
"for" reasons" we will no longer play at the Valley, we will go and play at the den for an unspecified amount of time. Then when as yet unknown circumstances change we might do something else"
There would be, rightly, a lot of anger, resistance etc
However if someone said
"this is the site, we will start building on x date, complete on y date. This is how we will pay for it, these are the benifits. We will play at the Valley until its ready."
I believe there would be a totally different response, even if there isn't 100% agreement.4 -
To my knowledge, Sheffield United have a fairly small mediocre set up at Shirecliffe, and Wednesdays at Middlewood is no better. The fortune of the two clubs couldn't be more different over recent seasons. It might be down to ownership (the right kind) being the biggest factor in success. That and luck!Cafc43v3r said:If Thomas is serious about his ambitions for the club, which I think he is as I get the impression he "doesn't do failure" is Sparrows Lane actually fit for purpose anyway?
Ignore the fact that he doesn't own it. Is it big enough to host the 1st team, an increased development squad, a bigger academy, a woman's team, CACT, improved medical facilities etc etc?
I haven't been there for about 25 years so others would be better placed to judge. I do know that other clubs have built specialist academies away from the 1st team training ground though.0 -
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Sheffield United are upgrading Shirecliffe this year for the first team.The Prince-e-Paul said:
To my knowledge, Sheffield United have a fairly small mediocre set up at Shirecliffe, and Wednesdays at Middlewood is no better. The fortune of the two clubs couldn't be more different over recent seasons. It might be down to ownership (the right kind) being the biggest factor in success. That and luck!Cafc43v3r said:If Thomas is serious about his ambitions for the club, which I think he is as I get the impression he "doesn't do failure" is Sparrows Lane actually fit for purpose anyway?
Ignore the fact that he doesn't own it. Is it big enough to host the 1st team, an increased development squad, a bigger academy, a woman's team, CACT, improved medical facilities etc etc?
I haven't been there for about 25 years so others would be better placed to judge. I do know that other clubs have built specialist academies away from the 1st team training ground though.
Sparrows Lane is pretty low rent, there hasn't been much improvement in the past 25 years0 -
The buildings yes but the pitches have been upgraded.
The Trust have their own hub now although it could be a lot bigger and better.
The planning permission is there and that would be enough, when built, to support a cat 1 academy.
I don't know how it compares to the top training facilities but there does seem to be a lot of land.0 -
Players wage bill is now just 3m as stated by Gallen. It's quite a turnaround.Cafc43v3r said:
I can't see the wage bill has halved. Nabby, BFG, Igor, possibly Ajose and Taylor were probably our biggest earners and have all gone. But Williams, Amos and Chuks are still on thier "championship" contracts.balham red said:
Yes fair point that, so strange comment from TS there.Airman Brown said:
I think this is unlikely to be true in operating terms in L1. If you work off £15 per match per seat net of VAT, which is quite a reach as it equates to a season ticket price of £400 for everyone, including U11s etc, two thirds full would raise about £6m over the season. The club's operating expenses have been close to £20m a year for some time.Cafc43v3r said:“If we could fill two thirds of the stadium we could break even or better.”
This is intresting, is the wage bill really that much smaller than 2 seasons ago?
We could break even on an average gate of 18k in league 1? Or does he mean this season after the sales of Bonne, Phillips and the KAG windfall?
The gap is much smaller in the Championship, because of the higher solidarity and TV money, but of course you get relegated unless you increase the playing budget, as has just been demonstrated.
I did see that our salary bill was 9.5m in our last League One season though, and given the new player wage restrictions, I'd guess that the bill for all staff would come in significantly below 5m?
Looking at the financials again it has reminded me what a fool's errand running a football club is.
Edit: 5m+ reduction in salary bill, almost 2m from Bonne sale, 2m or so from KAG sell on. I can see how we would be approaching break even this year.
Aribo, Phillips, Grant and Dijksteel were on peanuts.
I would imagine its less, but no where near half.0 -
What was it?balham red said:
Players wage bill is now just 3m as stated by Gallen. It's quite a turnaround.Cafc43v3r said:
I can't see the wage bill has halved. Nabby, BFG, Igor, possibly Ajose and Taylor were probably our biggest earners and have all gone. But Williams, Amos and Chuks are still on thier "championship" contracts.balham red said:
Yes fair point that, so strange comment from TS there.Airman Brown said:
I think this is unlikely to be true in operating terms in L1. If you work off £15 per match per seat net of VAT, which is quite a reach as it equates to a season ticket price of £400 for everyone, including U11s etc, two thirds full would raise about £6m over the season. The club's operating expenses have been close to £20m a year for some time.Cafc43v3r said:“If we could fill two thirds of the stadium we could break even or better.”
This is intresting, is the wage bill really that much smaller than 2 seasons ago?
We could break even on an average gate of 18k in league 1? Or does he mean this season after the sales of Bonne, Phillips and the KAG windfall?
The gap is much smaller in the Championship, because of the higher solidarity and TV money, but of course you get relegated unless you increase the playing budget, as has just been demonstrated.
I did see that our salary bill was 9.5m in our last League One season though, and given the new player wage restrictions, I'd guess that the bill for all staff would come in significantly below 5m?
Looking at the financials again it has reminded me what a fool's errand running a football club is.
Edit: 5m+ reduction in salary bill, almost 2m from Bonne sale, 2m or so from KAG sell on. I can see how we would be approaching break even this year.
Aribo, Phillips, Grant and Dijksteel were on peanuts.
I would imagine its less, but no where near half.0 -
Cracking interview. We are so lucky to have him as our owner. I appreciate it’s early days, but everything he says is forward thinking, and he’s actually doing and implementing as opposed to saying. The appointment of a technical and commercial director is a huge positive in forward thinking. He also comes across as a modern leader. Inclusive, authentic and caring. I really think that with him as our owner, and Bowyer as manager with his backroom staff, we have a lethal combination for progress5
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Shame Bromley Addicks can't get him down to Petts Wood this year.0
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Don’t forget to present him with Rommedahls boots and shirt !!!! That might entice him ........Henry Irving said:Shame Bromley Addicks can't get him down to Petts Wood this year.1 -
All ready for his visit @oohaahmortimeroohaahmortimer said:
Don’t forget to present him with Rommedahls boots and shirt !!!! That might entice him ........Henry Irving said:Shame Bromley Addicks can't get him down to Petts Wood this year.1 -
Handy for the rad goers 😊Henry Irving said:
No, we'll build a new stadium at Plumstead bus garageValley27000 said:So 32k is top for our support in the premier League?.0 -
Total salary bill was 9.5m 2 years ago. That's staff + players. Now player salary 3m.ElfsborgAddick said:
What was it?balham red said:
Players wage bill is now just 3m as stated by Gallen. It's quite a turnaround.Cafc43v3r said:
I can't see the wage bill has halved. Nabby, BFG, Igor, possibly Ajose and Taylor were probably our biggest earners and have all gone. But Williams, Amos and Chuks are still on thier "championship" contracts.balham red said:
Yes fair point that, so strange comment from TS there.Airman Brown said:
I think this is unlikely to be true in operating terms in L1. If you work off £15 per match per seat net of VAT, which is quite a reach as it equates to a season ticket price of £400 for everyone, including U11s etc, two thirds full would raise about £6m over the season. The club's operating expenses have been close to £20m a year for some time.Cafc43v3r said:“If we could fill two thirds of the stadium we could break even or better.”
This is intresting, is the wage bill really that much smaller than 2 seasons ago?
We could break even on an average gate of 18k in league 1? Or does he mean this season after the sales of Bonne, Phillips and the KAG windfall?
The gap is much smaller in the Championship, because of the higher solidarity and TV money, but of course you get relegated unless you increase the playing budget, as has just been demonstrated.
I did see that our salary bill was 9.5m in our last League One season though, and given the new player wage restrictions, I'd guess that the bill for all staff would come in significantly below 5m?
Looking at the financials again it has reminded me what a fool's errand running a football club is.
Edit: 5m+ reduction in salary bill, almost 2m from Bonne sale, 2m or so from KAG sell on. I can see how we would be approaching break even this year.
Aribo, Phillips, Grant and Dijksteel were on peanuts.
I would imagine its less, but no where near half.0 -
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No sooner do we have an owner who looks like he might bring some much needed stability to the club then some people start talking about leaving The Valley. And at a time when no fans are able to go to the ground to watch anyway.
Mental.7 -
2 years ago, Sarr and Vetokele probably accounted for 1m of the wage bill just for the pair of them.balham red said:
Total salary bill was 9.5m 2 years ago. That's staff + players. Now player salary 3m.ElfsborgAddick said:
What was it?balham red said:
Players wage bill is now just 3m as stated by Gallen. It's quite a turnaround.Cafc43v3r said:
I can't see the wage bill has halved. Nabby, BFG, Igor, possibly Ajose and Taylor were probably our biggest earners and have all gone. But Williams, Amos and Chuks are still on thier "championship" contracts.balham red said:
Yes fair point that, so strange comment from TS there.Airman Brown said:
I think this is unlikely to be true in operating terms in L1. If you work off £15 per match per seat net of VAT, which is quite a reach as it equates to a season ticket price of £400 for everyone, including U11s etc, two thirds full would raise about £6m over the season. The club's operating expenses have been close to £20m a year for some time.Cafc43v3r said:“If we could fill two thirds of the stadium we could break even or better.”
This is intresting, is the wage bill really that much smaller than 2 seasons ago?
We could break even on an average gate of 18k in league 1? Or does he mean this season after the sales of Bonne, Phillips and the KAG windfall?
The gap is much smaller in the Championship, because of the higher solidarity and TV money, but of course you get relegated unless you increase the playing budget, as has just been demonstrated.
I did see that our salary bill was 9.5m in our last League One season though, and given the new player wage restrictions, I'd guess that the bill for all staff would come in significantly below 5m?
Looking at the financials again it has reminded me what a fool's errand running a football club is.
Edit: 5m+ reduction in salary bill, almost 2m from Bonne sale, 2m or so from KAG sell on. I can see how we would be approaching break even this year.
Aribo, Phillips, Grant and Dijksteel were on peanuts.
I would imagine its less, but no where near half.0 -
As you note that’s not a like-for-like comparison, and the 18/19 costs included promotion bonuses, so you are still looking at a wages bill in 20/21 of £5m-plus.balham red said:
Total salary bill was 9.5m 2 years ago. That's staff + players. Now player salary 3m.ElfsborgAddick said:
What was it?balham red said:
Players wage bill is now just 3m as stated by Gallen. It's quite a turnaround.Cafc43v3r said:
I can't see the wage bill has halved. Nabby, BFG, Igor, possibly Ajose and Taylor were probably our biggest earners and have all gone. But Williams, Amos and Chuks are still on thier "championship" contracts.balham red said:
Yes fair point that, so strange comment from TS there.Airman Brown said:
I think this is unlikely to be true in operating terms in L1. If you work off £15 per match per seat net of VAT, which is quite a reach as it equates to a season ticket price of £400 for everyone, including U11s etc, two thirds full would raise about £6m over the season. The club's operating expenses have been close to £20m a year for some time.Cafc43v3r said:“If we could fill two thirds of the stadium we could break even or better.”
This is intresting, is the wage bill really that much smaller than 2 seasons ago?
We could break even on an average gate of 18k in league 1? Or does he mean this season after the sales of Bonne, Phillips and the KAG windfall?
The gap is much smaller in the Championship, because of the higher solidarity and TV money, but of course you get relegated unless you increase the playing budget, as has just been demonstrated.
I did see that our salary bill was 9.5m in our last League One season though, and given the new player wage restrictions, I'd guess that the bill for all staff would come in significantly below 5m?
Looking at the financials again it has reminded me what a fool's errand running a football club is.
Edit: 5m+ reduction in salary bill, almost 2m from Bonne sale, 2m or so from KAG sell on. I can see how we would be approaching break even this year.
Aribo, Phillips, Grant and Dijksteel were on peanuts.
I would imagine its less, but no where near half.The club’s matchday income is likely to be down about £3m on 18/19 this financial year, net of streaming income. So the overall operating position isn’t that different from before In L1.
Re comments about improving commercial income, no doubt that is possible but it won’t be a game changer, particularly at this level. The economy and geography are limiting factors and even in the Premier League the club was reliant on the council for significant event income which is no longer available.As for having more boxes, the club hasn’t been able to sell those it has for many years, certainly pre-Roland. The isolation of those in the east stand doesn’t help, but I wouldn’t assume building more is necessarily a good idea.0 -
So basically, CAFC will never be profitable unless it makes almost 10m profit per season in the transfer market, or if it gets into the Premier League.Airman Brown said:
As you note that’s not a like-for-like comparison, and the 18/19 costs included promotion bonuses, so you are still looking at a wages bill in 20/21 of £5m-plus.balham red said:
Total salary bill was 9.5m 2 years ago. That's staff + players. Now player salary 3m.ElfsborgAddick said:
What was it?balham red said:
Players wage bill is now just 3m as stated by Gallen. It's quite a turnaround.Cafc43v3r said:
I can't see the wage bill has halved. Nabby, BFG, Igor, possibly Ajose and Taylor were probably our biggest earners and have all gone. But Williams, Amos and Chuks are still on thier "championship" contracts.balham red said:
Yes fair point that, so strange comment from TS there.Airman Brown said:
I think this is unlikely to be true in operating terms in L1. If you work off £15 per match per seat net of VAT, which is quite a reach as it equates to a season ticket price of £400 for everyone, including U11s etc, two thirds full would raise about £6m over the season. The club's operating expenses have been close to £20m a year for some time.Cafc43v3r said:“If we could fill two thirds of the stadium we could break even or better.”
This is intresting, is the wage bill really that much smaller than 2 seasons ago?
We could break even on an average gate of 18k in league 1? Or does he mean this season after the sales of Bonne, Phillips and the KAG windfall?
The gap is much smaller in the Championship, because of the higher solidarity and TV money, but of course you get relegated unless you increase the playing budget, as has just been demonstrated.
I did see that our salary bill was 9.5m in our last League One season though, and given the new player wage restrictions, I'd guess that the bill for all staff would come in significantly below 5m?
Looking at the financials again it has reminded me what a fool's errand running a football club is.
Edit: 5m+ reduction in salary bill, almost 2m from Bonne sale, 2m or so from KAG sell on. I can see how we would be approaching break even this year.
Aribo, Phillips, Grant and Dijksteel were on peanuts.
I would imagine its less, but no where near half.The club’s matchday income is likely to be down about £3m on 18/19 this financial year, net of streaming income. So the overall operating position isn’t that different from before In L1.
Re comments about improving commercial income, no doubt that is possible but it won’t be a game changer, particularly at this level. The economy and geography are limiting factors and even in the Premier League the club was reliant on the council for significant event income which is no longer available.As for having more boxes, the club hasn’t been able to sell those it has for many years, certainly pre-Roland. The isolation of those in the east stand doesn’t help, but I wouldn’t assume building more is necessarily a good idea.0 -
I don’t think it’s necessary to make an operating loss of £10m, but I do think the club needs to be in the Premier League in order to have a chance of eliminating the operating loss altogether.balham red said:
So basically, CAFC will never be profitable unless it makes almost 10m profit per season in the transfer market, or if it gets into the Premier League.Airman Brown said:
As you note that’s not a like-for-like comparison, and the 18/19 costs included promotion bonuses, so you are still looking at a wages bill in 20/21 of £5m-plus.balham red said:
Total salary bill was 9.5m 2 years ago. That's staff + players. Now player salary 3m.ElfsborgAddick said:
What was it?balham red said:
Players wage bill is now just 3m as stated by Gallen. It's quite a turnaround.Cafc43v3r said:
I can't see the wage bill has halved. Nabby, BFG, Igor, possibly Ajose and Taylor were probably our biggest earners and have all gone. But Williams, Amos and Chuks are still on thier "championship" contracts.balham red said:
Yes fair point that, so strange comment from TS there.Airman Brown said:
I think this is unlikely to be true in operating terms in L1. If you work off £15 per match per seat net of VAT, which is quite a reach as it equates to a season ticket price of £400 for everyone, including U11s etc, two thirds full would raise about £6m over the season. The club's operating expenses have been close to £20m a year for some time.Cafc43v3r said:“If we could fill two thirds of the stadium we could break even or better.”
This is intresting, is the wage bill really that much smaller than 2 seasons ago?
We could break even on an average gate of 18k in league 1? Or does he mean this season after the sales of Bonne, Phillips and the KAG windfall?
The gap is much smaller in the Championship, because of the higher solidarity and TV money, but of course you get relegated unless you increase the playing budget, as has just been demonstrated.
I did see that our salary bill was 9.5m in our last League One season though, and given the new player wage restrictions, I'd guess that the bill for all staff would come in significantly below 5m?
Looking at the financials again it has reminded me what a fool's errand running a football club is.
Edit: 5m+ reduction in salary bill, almost 2m from Bonne sale, 2m or so from KAG sell on. I can see how we would be approaching break even this year.
Aribo, Phillips, Grant and Dijksteel were on peanuts.
I would imagine its less, but no where near half.The club’s matchday income is likely to be down about £3m on 18/19 this financial year, net of streaming income. So the overall operating position isn’t that different from before In L1.
Re comments about improving commercial income, no doubt that is possible but it won’t be a game changer, particularly at this level. The economy and geography are limiting factors and even in the Premier League the club was reliant on the council for significant event income which is no longer available.As for having more boxes, the club hasn’t been able to sell those it has for many years, certainly pre-Roland. The isolation of those in the east stand doesn’t help, but I wouldn’t assume building more is necessarily a good idea.0 -
Lots of years and money if we ever make the Premier League again?.1
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We should make a profit once we are playing in the European champions league 😉0
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If player wages are around 3 million I don't really see how a club can have a 10 million operating loss even with zero income.
What does the other 7 million get spent on?
It makes me suspicious that football finances aren't always as bad as they are made out to be.
Cash is diverted back to the owners via interest payments, inflated consultancy invoices, boardroom salaries etc. The club officially loses a lot of money but the owners and various hangers on actually do quite nicely out of it.
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Business ratesstevexreeve said:If player wages are around 3 million I don't really see how a club can have a 10 million operating loss even with zero income.
What does the other 7 million get spent on?
It makes me suspicious that football finances aren't always as bad as they are made out to be.
Cash is diverted back to the owners via interest payments, inflated consultancy invoices, boardroom salaries etc. The club officially loses a lot of money but the owners and various hangers on actually do quite nicely out of it.
Rent to Roland
Other staff wages
Maintenance of the Valley and Sparrows Lane.
Other operating costs such as insurance, replacing equipment, gas, electricity, water.
Depreciation on the value of assets (players and range rovers).
We know that in SOME cases the likes of quisling Amis and liar Southall take money out but most clubs lose money even when well run.
Our operating losses will be partially covered by the sales of Bonne, Philips and the sell on for Grant but we'll (Thomas) will still lose money.2
