In hindsight offering Gunter and Watson 2 year deals to take out a large chunk of the wage cap budget was a poor decision.
I don't think Gunter was bad business at all. He's been a bit disappointing, but we go into next season with an experienced back-up right back on the books, and we can make a decision whether we upgrade on Adam Matthews. Gunter hasn't even been that bad; he's not been as good as we'd hoped but he's also had to fill in for us at CB when we were desperate and played pretty well there in a few games. There's not a lot of RBs we've had in the past few years who you would want to put there, certainly wouldn't put Matthews there! Personally I always thought he'd end up being second choice once we signed Matthews as long as Matthews could stay fit,8 which he's mostly managed once he got up to speed. We always have so much churn in the squad, I'm comfortable with Gunter being around as a back-up. Watson hasn't been anywhere near consistent enough though and his engine really does seem to have gone
Gunter is on decent money though, star first team player money, rather than squad player money. I'm not sure having a RB as one of your best paid players makes a great deal of sense
I think he was something like our 10th highest paid player when the window closed and was our only senior right back. That was a pretty essential signing and I don't think it's crazy money we're paying him, I thought it was about the same as Deji. With the cap gone his wage will hopefully be lower in terms of the squad again next season. I think Matthews is on one of the lowest in the squad as well, so it's balanced out this season.
He might have been 10th highest in terms of actually salary, but him and Watson took up 4 players worth of wage cap between them.
I will defend both of them as players but the decision to sign them, on that much money, in the circumstances, admittedly with hindsight, was a poor one
As you say, with hindsight.
But at the time Gunter and Watson were signed, it would have appeared to Bowyer that those 2 players, with all their experience at higher levels, were intended to be cornerstones of the team and helping along younger players in the squad.
On that basis, surely it would have been considered that they were worth gambling "4 players worth of wage cape" between them?
Not just that, Watson was ready to sign the day Thomas completed his takeover. We started the game the day after he signed with a midfield 3 of Pratley, Levitt and Oztumer. You can't look back at a transfer window as a whole without the context of the timings of some of the signings, and getting Watson in when we did was huge as we'd been so short there with numbers, fitness and injuries. I think Vennings started the next game. When we signed Gunter we'd been reliant on Barker, a youth CB playing out of position and Deji, who then got badly injured. Gunter then came into a defence that didn't concede for the next 5 games, and towards the end of that period we managed to re-sign Matthews, but up to that point we had been without a proper senior RB. We picked up 15 points out of 15 in the period immediately after we signed Gunter in performances that were built on not conceding. He's subsequently disappointed as the season has gone on but the timing of his signing and Watson's were essential for us going through that early purple patch that was our most consistent winning period all season. I wish they'd been better or that someone younger and better had been available to come in immediately after the takeover but they were logical, sensible signings at a time when we were pretty desperate for some experienced players.
It's not signing them that was the problem, it was the amount we are/were paying them in the circumstances we were in.
But that's what they cost, and they were available. We had no guarantees we'd get Matthews in and not a lot of other immediate options. We probably could have hung around hoping better options might become available but the season had already started and we were already dropping points. These signings helped us right the ship quickly (before it tilted over again) and without every one of those 15 points the season would have been over a while ago. I'd say it was worth paying them what they're getting in order to get some stability into the team
In hindsight offering Gunter and Watson 2 year deals to take out a large chunk of the wage cap budget was a poor decision.
I don't think Gunter was bad business at all. He's been a bit disappointing, but we go into next season with an experienced back-up right back on the books, and we can make a decision whether we upgrade on Adam Matthews. Gunter hasn't even been that bad; he's not been as good as we'd hoped but he's also had to fill in for us at CB when we were desperate and played pretty well there in a few games. There's not a lot of RBs we've had in the past few years who you would want to put there, certainly wouldn't put Matthews there! Personally I always thought he'd end up being second choice once we signed Matthews as long as Matthews could stay fit,8 which he's mostly managed once he got up to speed. We always have so much churn in the squad, I'm comfortable with Gunter being around as a back-up. Watson hasn't been anywhere near consistent enough though and his engine really does seem to have gone
Gunter is on decent money though, star first team player money, rather than squad player money. I'm not sure having a RB as one of your best paid players makes a great deal of sense
I think he was something like our 10th highest paid player when the window closed and was our only senior right back. That was a pretty essential signing and I don't think it's crazy money we're paying him, I thought it was about the same as Deji. With the cap gone his wage will hopefully be lower in terms of the squad again next season. I think Matthews is on one of the lowest in the squad as well, so it's balanced out this season.
He might have been 10th highest in terms of actually salary, but him and Watson took up 4 players worth of wage cap between them.
I will defend both of them as players but the decision to sign them, on that much money, in the circumstances, admittedly with hindsight, was a poor one
As you say, with hindsight.
But at the time Gunter and Watson were signed, it would have appeared to Bowyer that those 2 players, with all their experience at higher levels, were intended to be cornerstones of the team and helping along younger players in the squad.
On that basis, surely it would have been considered that they were worth gambling "4 players worth of wage cape" between them?
Not just that, Watson was ready to sign the day Thomas completed his takeover. We started the game the day after he signed with a midfield 3 of Pratley, Levitt and Oztumer. You can't look back at a transfer window as a whole without the context of the timings of some of the signings, and getting Watson in when we did was huge as we'd been so short there with numbers, fitness and injuries. I think Vennings started the next game. When we signed Gunter we'd been reliant on Barker, a youth CB playing out of position and Deji, who then got badly injured. Gunter then came into a defence that didn't concede for the next 5 games, and towards the end of that period we managed to re-sign Matthews, but up to that point we had been without a proper senior RB. We picked up 15 points out of 15 in the period immediately after we signed Gunter in performances that were built on not conceding. He's subsequently disappointed as the season has gone on but the timing of his signing and Watson's were essential for us going through that early purple patch that was our most consistent winning period all season. I wish they'd been better or that someone younger and better had been available to come in immediately after the takeover but they were logical, sensible signings at a time when we were pretty desperate for some experienced players.
To be fair we had Williams, JFC and Lapslie on the bench that day, Morgan was presumably dropped while Gilbey had just been injured, so our squad still had a decent number of midfield players
After all while Levitt may have disappointed, I'm sure he was expected at the time to be a regularly starter
In hindsight offering Gunter and Watson 2 year deals to take out a large chunk of the wage cap budget was a poor decision.
I don't think Gunter was bad business at all. He's been a bit disappointing, but we go into next season with an experienced back-up right back on the books, and we can make a decision whether we upgrade on Adam Matthews. Gunter hasn't even been that bad; he's not been as good as we'd hoped but he's also had to fill in for us at CB when we were desperate and played pretty well there in a few games. There's not a lot of RBs we've had in the past few years who you would want to put there, certainly wouldn't put Matthews there! Personally I always thought he'd end up being second choice once we signed Matthews as long as Matthews could stay fit,8 which he's mostly managed once he got up to speed. We always have so much churn in the squad, I'm comfortable with Gunter being around as a back-up. Watson hasn't been anywhere near consistent enough though and his engine really does seem to have gone
Gunter is on decent money though, star first team player money, rather than squad player money. I'm not sure having a RB as one of your best paid players makes a great deal of sense
I think he was something like our 10th highest paid player when the window closed and was our only senior right back. That was a pretty essential signing and I don't think it's crazy money we're paying him, I thought it was about the same as Deji. With the cap gone his wage will hopefully be lower in terms of the squad again next season. I think Matthews is on one of the lowest in the squad as well, so it's balanced out this season.
He might have been 10th highest in terms of actually salary, but him and Watson took up 4 players worth of wage cap between them.
I will defend both of them as players but the decision to sign them, on that much money, in the circumstances, admittedly with hindsight, was a poor one
As you say, with hindsight.
But at the time Gunter and Watson were signed, it would have appeared to Bowyer that those 2 players, with all their experience at higher levels, were intended to be cornerstones of the team and helping along younger players in the squad.
On that basis, surely it would have been considered that they were worth gambling "4 players worth of wage cape" between them?
Not just that, Watson was ready to sign the day Thomas completed his takeover. We started the game the day after he signed with a midfield 3 of Pratley, Levitt and Oztumer. You can't look back at a transfer window as a whole without the context of the timings of some of the signings, and getting Watson in when we did was huge as we'd been so short there with numbers, fitness and injuries. I think Vennings started the next game. When we signed Gunter we'd been reliant on Barker, a youth CB playing out of position and Deji, who then got badly injured. Gunter then came into a defence that didn't concede for the next 5 games, and towards the end of that period we managed to re-sign Matthews, but up to that point we had been without a proper senior RB. We picked up 15 points out of 15 in the period immediately after we signed Gunter in performances that were built on not conceding. He's subsequently disappointed as the season has gone on but the timing of his signing and Watson's were essential for us going through that early purple patch that was our most consistent winning period all season. I wish they'd been better or that someone younger and better had been available to come in immediately after the takeover but they were logical, sensible signings at a time when we were pretty desperate for some experienced players.
To be fair we had Williams, JFC and Lapslie on the bench that day, Morgan was presumably dropped while Gilbey had just been injured, so our squad still had a decent number of midfield players
After all while Levitt may have disappointed, I'm sure he was expected at the time to be a regularly starter
It also ment, in wage cap terms, we had nothing left to sign a striker that we desperately need, another winger and only got Inniss because Palace did us a favour.
Like I said I'll defend them both as players, they haven't been nearly as bad as some people make out. The problem was, under the wage cap, the wages.
I read this morning that Everton and a few other Prem clubs are lining up offers for Ivan Toney. Another decent payday for Brentford I would think is on the horizon. Decent model to follow imo
brentford got rid of their academy a good few years ago now, which is why they've streamlined buying players for their first team or at least for development. A great model, sure, but one i dont really want us to follow.
In hindsight offering Gunter and Watson 2 year deals to take out a large chunk of the wage cap budget was a poor decision.
I don't think Gunter was bad business at all. He's been a bit disappointing, but we go into next season with an experienced back-up right back on the books, and we can make a decision whether we upgrade on Adam Matthews. Gunter hasn't even been that bad; he's not been as good as we'd hoped but he's also had to fill in for us at CB when we were desperate and played pretty well there in a few games. There's not a lot of RBs we've had in the past few years who you would want to put there, certainly wouldn't put Matthews there! Personally I always thought he'd end up being second choice once we signed Matthews as long as Matthews could stay fit, which he's mostly managed once he got up to speed. We always have so much churn in the squad, I'm comfortable with Gunter being around as a back-up. Watson hasn't been anywhere near consistent enough though and his engine really does seem to have gone
I personally think Gunter has been one of our worse performers this season. How he was getting game time over Matthews at the start of the year was criminal. There must be a U23 who can do the job with Matthews and let Gunter go.
I think it's pretty clear Schwartz was a signing pushed by Sandgaard. Not ideal imo and Charlton fans have more reason to be skeptical of this than most, but it's his money at the end of the day. The important thing is, judging by how little game time Schwartz has had, it doesn't seem like there has been pressure exerted to actually play him - which is a significant difference from Powell being instructed to drop Hamer for Thuram, for example.
Schwartz isn’t much of an upgrade of Polish Pete, Nego , Reza etc. We really don’t want 5/6 of those this summer, eating into budgets, regardless of whether the manager is told to play them or otherwise.
You have no evidence to back up this statement whatsoever. He's barely been utilised despite scoring in his first game. With a full summer, I think we'll see a different player.
It’s an opinion . 2 mangers haven’t used him , he’s 31. I hope you’re right but I won’t hold my breath.
I think it's pretty clear Schwartz was a signing pushed by Sandgaard. Not ideal imo and Charlton fans have more reason to be skeptical of this than most, but it's his money at the end of the day. The important thing is, judging by how little game time Schwartz has had, it doesn't seem like there has been pressure exerted to actually play him - which is a significant difference from Powell being instructed to drop Hamer for Thuram, for example.
Schwartz isn’t much of an upgrade of Polish Pete, Nego , Reza etc. We really don’t want 5/6 of those this summer, eating into budgets, regardless of whether the manager is told to play them or otherwise.
You have no evidence to back up this statement whatsoever. He's barely been utilised despite scoring in his first game. With a full summer, I think we'll see a different player.
It’s an opinion . 2 mangers haven’t used him , he’s 31. I hope you’re right but I won’t hold my breath.
@Dazzler21, you should put your knowledge on the itk thread as you are purporting to know something that is not apparent to anyone else. I'll go along side you as saying a total dud.
Nah I don't know either way but I'll let him have time on the pitch before I pass judgement.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s sold/loaned to a Danish club in the summer.
agreed - never seen somebody spend so much time on the pitch without touching the ball - shame coz that finish when he came on in his first game was top draw
I read this morning that Everton and a few other Prem clubs are lining up offers for Ivan Toney. Another decent payday for Brentford I would think is on the horizon. Decent model to follow imo
brentford got rid of their academy a good few years ago now, which is why they've streamlined buying players for their first team or at least for development. A great model, sure, but one i dont really want us to follow.
The catalyst for that was because they kept losing their best players to bigger clubs for peanuts under EPPP.
I read this morning that Everton and a few other Prem clubs are lining up offers for Ivan Toney. Another decent payday for Brentford I would think is on the horizon. Decent model to follow imo
brentford got rid of their academy a good few years ago now, which is why they've streamlined buying players for their first team or at least for development. A great model, sure, but one i dont really want us to follow.
The catalyst for that was because they kept losing their best players to bigger clubs for peanuts under EPPP.
I read this morning that Everton and a few other Prem clubs are lining up offers for Ivan Toney. Another decent payday for Brentford I would think is on the horizon. Decent model to follow imo
brentford got rid of their academy a good few years ago now, which is why they've streamlined buying players for their first team or at least for development. A great model, sure, but one i dont really want us to follow.
The catalyst for that was because they kept losing their best players to bigger clubs for peanuts under EPPP.
Thank God we've managed to dodge that bullet.
Not sure we have? Sarmiento to Benfica; Huddart to Arsenal; Abraham to Fulham and Palmer to Chelsea - weren't they all EPPP or equivalent? Must be many more I have never heard of. We are just lucky we have persuaded some to stay on.
I read this morning that Everton and a few other Prem clubs are lining up offers for Ivan Toney. Another decent payday for Brentford I would think is on the horizon. Decent model to follow imo
brentford got rid of their academy a good few years ago now, which is why they've streamlined buying players for their first team or at least for development. A great model, sure, but one i dont really want us to follow.
The catalyst for that was because they kept losing their best players to bigger clubs for peanuts under EPPP.
Thank God we've managed to dodge that bullet.
Not sure we have? Sarmiento to Benfica; Huddart to Arsenal; Abraham to Fulham and Palmer to Chelsea - weren't they all EPPP or equivalent? Must be many more I have never heard of. We are just lucky we have persuaded some to stay on.
Interviewed from 17 mins. Highlights: arter took a couple of weeks as the player needed persuading to drop down a league. Seems the poor start to the season influenced the decision to bring in a few more at the end of the window.
Interviewed from 17 mins. Highlights: arter took a couple of weeks as the player needed persuading to drop down a league. Seems the poor start to the season influenced the decision to bring in a few more at the end of the window.
That was really interesting as it confirmed that the late business was a reaction to the poor start to the season, and a realisation that our transfer business wasn't good enough
Also interesting that Wycombe were also in for Lavelle, it's always comforting that a decent manager and well run club were also targeting the same player
Steve is a great communicator - there’s always a good amount of juice and insight in his interviews that they are worth listening to, but he’s politically savvy and always on message
a quarter zip was actually what I was wearing that night but the lie was around the world before the truth got its boot on.
As a bit of a fashion guru myself I always think you look very smart. That reminds me, I must collect my 3 buttons waist band 24” bottoms from the cleaners. 😉
Really interesting interview. Thanks for sharing @TeeC.
I think we all guessed that top 6 and not top 2 was the target and that many of the signings have been made with the future in mind rather than this season.It appears that TS seems to accept that we may not go up this year .
I agree with Gallen that we are a Championship club playing in L1 but then so are so many others in L1 this year.
After the Wigan game it became clear that we needed those quality reinforcements. Before signing Arter, Leko and Lee I didn't feel we had options . Wigan brought on McLean and Humphries. We didn't have an equivalent. We do now.
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After all while Levitt may have disappointed, I'm sure he was expected at the time to be a regularly starter
Like I said I'll defend them both as players, they haven't been nearly as bad as some people make out. The problem was, under the wage cap, the wages.
Can't be far away??
I'll go along side you as saying a total dud.
Not concerned in the slightest as to whom we will buying in the window - in Gallen & co I trust.
2021/22 Champions, bet on it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09tyt5c
Also interesting that Wycombe were also in for Lavelle, it's always comforting that a decent manager and well run club were also targeting the same player
I think we all guessed that top 6 and not top 2 was the target and that many of the signings have been made with the future in mind rather than this season.It appears that TS seems to accept that we may not go up this year .
I agree with Gallen that we are a Championship club playing in L1 but then so are so many others in L1 this year.
After the Wigan game it became clear that we needed those quality reinforcements. Before signing Arter, Leko and Lee I didn't feel we had options . Wigan brought on McLean and Humphries. We didn't have an equivalent. We do now.