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How Likely Are You To Take The Covid Vaccine?

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  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:


    . Nobody on here has been able to provide any evidence that Covid is not a dangerous virus.



    Maybe because the vast majority of people know it is exactly that, that doesn't mean they need to obsess over it daily, as that might be more harmful than the virus itself.

    You have little to no interest actually in engaging in any counter points made, just keep hitting that CRTL  V, the reality is the government can't afford to keep people fed and clothed, but you think air filtration systems are the way to go? Absolutely bonkers.
    All new or refurbished where possible public buildings should have air filtration systems fitted. Retro fitting is not a feasible option. 
    Portable air filters could be used in classrooms to keep children safe.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    ME14addick said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:


    . Nobody on here has been able to provide any evidence that Covid is not a dangerous virus.



    Maybe because the vast majority of people know it is exactly that, that doesn't mean they need to obsess over it daily, as that might be more harmful than the virus itself.

    You have little to no interest actually in engaging in any counter points made, just keep hitting that CRTL  V, the reality is the government can't afford to keep people fed and clothed, but you think air filtration systems are the way to go? Absolutely bonkers.

    I disagree that we can't do better with air filtration, Chris Whitty said we should be doing more on air filtration in public buildings, when he gave his testimony at the Covid Inquiry this Autumn. The economic and health costs of not improving air quality in public buildings are huge, running into £billions.  The NHS will continue to be overwhelmed with people in hospital with preventable infectious diseases, stopping other conditions being treated.

    Where is that money coming from? Schools across the country are using outdated textbooks and materials in multiple departments. I know where I would prefer my child's school to allocate funds, and it’s certainly not towards air filtration.

    Also you keep suggesting that people should "just stay home" when they are unwell, completely overlooking the numerous arguments as to why this is simply not feasible for the vast majority of people.

  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    ME14addick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:


    . Nobody on here has been able to provide any evidence that Covid is not a dangerous virus.



    Maybe because the vast majority of people know it is exactly that, that doesn't mean they need to obsess over it daily, as that might be more harmful than the virus itself.

    You have little to no interest actually in engaging in any counter points made, just keep hitting that CRTL  V, the reality is the government can't afford to keep people fed and clothed, but you think air filtration systems are the way to go? Absolutely bonkers.
    All new or refurbished where possible public buildings should have air filtration systems fitted. Retro fitting is not a feasible option. 
    Portable air filters could be used in classrooms to keep children safe.
    Despite them being mostly useless?

    https://itsairborne.com/personal-hepa-filters-do-they-work-28727da13527

    https://ehs.umass.edu/air-purifiers-fact-sheet
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,843
    ME14addick said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:


    . Nobody on here has been able to provide any evidence that Covid is not a dangerous virus.



    Maybe because the vast majority of people know it is exactly that, that doesn't mean they need to obsess over it daily, as that might be more harmful than the virus itself.

    You have little to no interest actually in engaging in any counter points made, just keep hitting that CRTL  V, the reality is the government can't afford to keep people fed and clothed, but you think air filtration systems are the way to go? Absolutely bonkers.
    On the contrary, I try to put a case to every point made, except those comments that don't actually make a point, but snipe instead.

    If you are going to make a case for something, you need to provide evidence to support your case, that is why I paste links to evidence. Nobody has been able to put a case for this being a virus of little or no consequence.

    I disagree that we can't do better with air filtration, Chris Whitty said we should be doing more on air filtration in public buildings, when he gave his testimony at the Covid Inquiry this Autumn. The economic and health costs of not improving air quality in public buildings are huge, running into £billions.  The NHS will continue to be overwhelmed with people in hospital with preventable infectious diseases, stopping other conditions being treated.

    Others have posted about the lack of care by healthcare staff in stopping the spread of viruses, but it's hardly surprising when Dr Lisa Ritchie, the NHS Deputy Director of Infection Prevention & Control, is still sticking to the line that the SARSCov-2 virus is predominantly spread by droplet and not via aerosol.


    That sort of comment doesn't really help. There will be a tiny minority of people who view Covid as being of little or no consequence - there is nuance in everything and it isn't one extreme of unrealistic expectations versus totally ignoring Covid. Sensible, affordable, realistic mitigations are fine - but expecting air filtration systems in every building accessed by the public (bars, restaurants, all shops including supermarkets, offices, libraries, schools and so on) and people staying home and losing money they can't afford if they have a sniffle is just not realistic.

    We should expect people (staff and patients) in medical facilities to take precautions, people who test positive for Covid should avoid contact wherever possible for a period of time (bare in mind that 30% of Covid infections are asymptomatic) - but we cannot live in sealed bubbles.

  • Super_Eddie_Youds
    Super_Eddie_Youds Posts: 1,977
    Showmetheway2gohome said:
    Wasted enough money on the Covid bullshit. People need to get out in the fresh air and do some exercise to increase their immunity system. 
    Maybe on a bike?
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    Showmetheway2gohome said:
    Wasted enough money on the Covid bullshit. People need to get out in the fresh air and do some exercise to increase their immunity system. 
    That’s fine and to be encouraged but there is probably half of the population that are not able to do that. For some it will be self inflicted but there are millions that simply cannot exercise enough to give their immune systems a boost. Calling Covid out as bullshit is really not helpful, scientific or clever. I might also add that there are millions of fit people who are infected every year by one or more of the respiratory viruses. 
  • Leroy Ambrose
    Leroy Ambrose Posts: 14,436
    Showmetheway2gohome said:
    Exactly.buy there bad for the environment and blow up. Unlike  electric cars 

  • Redskin
    Redskin Posts: 3,112
    ME14addick said:
    Covered End said:
    I’d like to recommend going out and enjoying your life before you’re dead.
    Some people give the impression they’ve been partly living for 5 years now.
    Life is not a rehearsal.
    For many that's impossible, their lives have already been blighted by Covid. I'm not in that category in case your comments are aimed at me.
    That's also true of the thousands of people who are still suffering from life debilitating illnesses having taken Covid 'vaccines' that were heralded as 'safe and effective'.

    A reminder: 

    1976 Swine Flu vaccine : 1 in 100,000  reactions causing Guillan-Barré Syndrome, a very rare and dangerous condition that affects the nerves 

    1999 rotavirus : 1 in 10,000 reactions causing intussusception.

    Both these vaccines with significantly lower AR levels than the Covid Vaccines were withdrawn from usage in the USA.

    And just a few of the malpractices that Pfizer have been culpable of:

    ● In May 2018, Pfizer still had 6,000 lawsuits pending against claims that its testosterone replacement therapy products cause strokes, heart attacks, pulmonary embolism and deep vein thrombosis, and were fraudulently marketed at healthy men for uses not approved by the FDA.*

    * The FDA who receive 80% of their funding from Big Pharma 


    ● In June-August 2020, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and the Department of Justice said they were looking at Pfizer’s activities in China and Russia under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which forbids U.S. firms from bribing foreign officials.

    ● In November 2021, the British Medical Journal revealed that the Ventavia Research Group had falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in the phase 3 trial for Pfizer’s ‘vaccine’.

    ● Since 2000, Pfizer has incurred $10.268 billion in penalties, including $5.637 billion for safety-related offences; $3.373 billion for unapproved promotion of medical products; $1.148 billion for government contract-related offences; $60 million under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act; and $34.7 million for ‘kickbacks and bribery’.
    May '23
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,022
    edited December 2024
    Redskin said:
    ME14addick said:
    Covered End said:
    I’d like to recommend going out and enjoying your life before you’re dead.
    Some people give the impression they’ve been partly living for 5 years now.
    Life is not a rehearsal.
    For many that's impossible, their lives have already been blighted by Covid. I'm not in that category in case your comments are aimed at me.
    That's also true of the thousands of people who are still suffering from life debilitating illnesses having taken Covid 'vaccines' that were heralded as 'safe and effective'.

    A reminder: 

    1976 Swine Flu vaccine : 1 in 100,000  reactions causing Guillan-Barré Syndrome, a very rare and dangerous condition that affects the nerves 

    1999 rotavirus : 1 in 10,000 reactions causing intussusception.

    Both these vaccines with significantly lower AR levels than the Covid Vaccines were withdrawn from usage in the USA.

    And just a few of the malpractices that Pfizer have been culpable of:

    ● In May 2018, Pfizer still had 6,000 lawsuits pending against claims that its testosterone replacement therapy products cause strokes, heart attacks, pulmonary embolism and deep vein thrombosis, and were fraudulently marketed at healthy men for uses not approved by the FDA.*

    * The FDA who receive 80% of their funding from Big Pharma 


    ● In June-August 2020, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and the Department of Justice said they were looking at Pfizer’s activities in China and Russia under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which forbids U.S. firms from bribing foreign officials.

    ● In November 2021, the British Medical Journal revealed that the Ventavia Research Group had falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in the phase 3 trial for Pfizer’s ‘vaccine’.

    ● Since 2000, Pfizer has incurred $10.268 billion in penalties, including $5.637 billion for safety-related offences; $3.373 billion for unapproved promotion of medical products; $1.148 billion for government contract-related offences; $60 million under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act; and $34.7 million for ‘kickbacks and bribery’.
    May '23
    Your post looks like it has some factual information in it, so I thought I'd put this to the test.  I looked up the first claim, the Guillan-Barré Syndrome one, and quickly found that whilst there was once a scare, on investigation there didn't seem to be any substance to it. Stowe et al (2009) American Journal of Epidemiology, looked at the general influenza vaccine and found, "no evidence of an increased risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome after seasonal influenza vaccine", whilst Verity et al (2010), The Lancet, which looked specifically at the Swine Flu vaccination noted an upswing in Guillan-Barré Syndrome but ascribed it to other causes, concluding, 'the vaccination programme might have had an overall protective effect against Guillain-Barré syndrome'. A protective effect; that is a far shot from causing it.

    It seems to me that there's a big problem here, in that early correlations are more likely to get reported (and believed), but later investigations aren't so sexy and don't get reported. This leads those people who are prone believing conspiracy theories to be more likely to consume and circulate bad news than good. 

    I haven't bothered with the rest of your claims, but I suspect if I had more time and energy I'd find much the same. 
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761


    An average of 2629 patients a day were in hospital with flu last week Up from 1861 the week before Get vaccinated this winter A bar graph showing the flu statistics from the last two weeks is displayed
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  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
     26 Sep - 30 Oct (minus 1 Oct) = 34 days That’s 42% of the days!!
    image
    Quote
    Square profile picture
    NHS England
    Cases of flu in hospitals are still rising, with an average of 2,629 patients a day in hospital with flu last week - a 41% increase on the week before. Read more about the latest NHS data. https://england.nhs.uk/2024/12/winter-pressure-builds-as-no-sign-of-festive-flu-letting-up/…
    An average of 2629 patients a day were in hospital with flu last week Up from 1861 the week before Get vaccinated this winter A bar graph showing the flu statistics from the last two weeks is displayed
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
    I'm sorry I can't get the above posts to show properly, but the point I am making is that there is a lot being made of the number of people currently in hospital with flu, but the number of people in hospital with Covid has rarely been below 2000 for the whole of 2024, yet nobody mentions it.
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,824
    ME14addick said:


    An average of 2629 patients a day were in hospital with flu last week Up from 1861 the week before Get vaccinated this winter A bar graph showing the flu statistics from the last two weeks is displayed
    As I've said on another thread.
    Been up the hospital 10 days on the trot now.
    I should think half that number caught flu in the hospital.
    The ward I'm visiting has 6 beds   3 of them are coughing and spluttering all day.
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
    clb74 said:
    ME14addick said:


    An average of 2629 patients a day were in hospital with flu last week Up from 1861 the week before Get vaccinated this winter A bar graph showing the flu statistics from the last two weeks is displayed
    As I've said on another thread.
    Been up the hospital 10 days on the trot now.
    I should think half that number caught flu in the hospital.
    The ward I'm visiting has 6 beds   3 of them are coughing and spluttering all day.
    It's well known that the number of hospital acquired infections is very high, it shouldn't be like that. Yet when you have the the people in senior positions denying that viruses like Covid are airborne, it is hardly surprising.
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,670
    ME14addick said:
    I'm sorry I can't get the above posts to show properly, but the point I am making is that there is a lot being made of the number of people currently in hospital with flu, but the number of people in hospital with Covid has rarely been below 2000 for the whole of 2024, yet nobody mentions it.
    Well you do .
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
    blackpool72 said:
    ME14addick said:
    I'm sorry I can't get the above posts to show properly, but the point I am making is that there is a lot being made of the number of people currently in hospital with flu, but the number of people in hospital with Covid has rarely been below 2000 for the whole of 2024, yet nobody mentions it.
    Well you do .
    Yes I do, because it is rarely mentioned elsewhere, how many people do you think are aware of the high number of people who have been in hospital with Covid throughout the year, very few I expect.
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,843
    ME14addick said:
    I'm sorry I can't get the above posts to show properly, but the point I am making is that there is a lot being made of the number of people currently in hospital with flu, but the number of people in hospital with Covid has rarely been below 2000 for the whole of 2024, yet nobody mentions it.
    Yes there is a lot made about flu at the moment - that's because it is the main issue.

    Main points

    The main messages of this report are:

    • influenza activity increased across all indicators, and was at medium activity levels
    • COVID-19 activity decreased across most indicators, and was at baseline levels
    • respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) activity decreased across most indicators and was circulating at low levels of activity


    The latest figures come as flu and COVID-19 vaccination uptake rates are still not at the levels we need to prevent further rises in admissions. Vaccine uptake currently stands at 37% for those in a clinical risk group.











  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
    bobmunro said:
    ME14addick said:
    I'm sorry I can't get the above posts to show properly, but the point I am making is that there is a lot being made of the number of people currently in hospital with flu, but the number of people in hospital with Covid has rarely been below 2000 for the whole of 2024, yet nobody mentions it.
    Yes there is a lot made about flu at the moment - that's because it is the main issue.

    Main points

    The main messages of this report are:

    • influenza activity increased across all indicators, and was at medium activity levels
    • COVID-19 activity decreased across most indicators, and was at baseline levels
    • respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) activity decreased across most indicators and was circulating at low levels of activity


    The latest figures come as flu and COVID-19 vaccination uptake rates are still not at the levels we need to prevent further rises in admissions. Vaccine uptake currently stands at 37% for those in a clinical risk group.











    The main message that I want to make is that the number of Covid patients in hospital over the whole year  has rarely been below 2000 per day, but nobody comments on that. Flu is currently at a level that Covid cases reached earlier in the year.

    Fortunately at moment we are not in a big wave of Covid,  but with the current cycle, that is likely to change.
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,824
    ME14addick said:
    bobmunro said:
    ME14addick said:
    I'm sorry I can't get the above posts to show properly, but the point I am making is that there is a lot being made of the number of people currently in hospital with flu, but the number of people in hospital with Covid has rarely been below 2000 for the whole of 2024, yet nobody mentions it.
    Yes there is a lot made about flu at the moment - that's because it is the main issue.

    Main points

    The main messages of this report are:

    • influenza activity increased across all indicators, and was at medium activity levels
    • COVID-19 activity decreased across most indicators, and was at baseline levels
    • respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) activity decreased across most indicators and was circulating at low levels of activity


    The latest figures come as flu and COVID-19 vaccination uptake rates are still not at the levels we need to prevent further rises in admissions. Vaccine uptake currently stands at 37% for those in a clinical risk group.











    The main message that I want to make is that the number of Covid patients in hospital over the whole year  has rarely been below 2000 per day, but nobody comments on that. Flu is currently at a level that Covid cases reached earlier in the year.

    Fortunately at moment we are not in a big wave of Covid,  but with the current cycle, that is likely to change.
    You're talking to the same 10000 people though.

  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    ME14addick said:
    clb74 said:
    ME14addick said:


    An average of 2629 patients a day were in hospital with flu last week Up from 1861 the week before Get vaccinated this winter A bar graph showing the flu statistics from the last two weeks is displayed
    As I've said on another thread.
    Been up the hospital 10 days on the trot now.
    I should think half that number caught flu in the hospital.
    The ward I'm visiting has 6 beds   3 of them are coughing and spluttering all day.
    It's well known that the number of hospital acquired infections is very high, it shouldn't be like that. Yet when you have the the people in senior positions denying that viruses like Covid are airborne, it is hardly surprising.
    Is anyone actually denying it’s airborne? 
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  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:
    clb74 said:
    ME14addick said:


    An average of 2629 patients a day were in hospital with flu last week Up from 1861 the week before Get vaccinated this winter A bar graph showing the flu statistics from the last two weeks is displayed
    As I've said on another thread.
    Been up the hospital 10 days on the trot now.
    I should think half that number caught flu in the hospital.
    The ward I'm visiting has 6 beds   3 of them are coughing and spluttering all day.
    It's well known that the number of hospital acquired infections is very high, it shouldn't be like that. Yet when you have the the people in senior positions denying that viruses like Covid are airborne, it is hardly surprising.
    Is anyone actually denying it’s airborne? 
    Yes, at the recent module of the Covid Inquiry,  Dr Lisa Ritchie who is one of the most senior people in charge of infection prevention and control in the NHS. Despite all the expert evidence to the contrary, she maintained that the Sars Cov-2 virus was predominantly spread by droplets.
  • Leroy Ambrose
    Leroy Ambrose Posts: 14,436
    ME14addick said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:
    clb74 said:
    ME14addick said:


    An average of 2629 patients a day were in hospital with flu last week Up from 1861 the week before Get vaccinated this winter A bar graph showing the flu statistics from the last two weeks is displayed
    As I've said on another thread.
    Been up the hospital 10 days on the trot now.
    I should think half that number caught flu in the hospital.
    The ward I'm visiting has 6 beds   3 of them are coughing and spluttering all day.
    It's well known that the number of hospital acquired infections is very high, it shouldn't be like that. Yet when you have the the people in senior positions denying that viruses like Covid are airborne, it is hardly surprising.
    Is anyone actually denying it’s airborne? 
    Yes, at the recent module of the Covid Inquiry,  Dr Lisa Ritchie who is one of the most senior people in charge of infection prevention and control in the NHS. Despite all the expert evidence to the contrary, she maintained that the Sars Cov-2 virus was predominantly spread by droplets.

    'Predominantly spread by droplets' is not 'denying its airborne'. For God's sake, go outside and touch grass. 
  • Manic_mania
    Manic_mania Posts: 2,258
    Is that stat saying 2000 new people are entering hospital each day as a cumulative rising total or 2000 people in hospital concurrently? 
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
    Manic_mania said:
    Is that stat saying 2000 new people are entering hospital each day as a cumulative rising total or 2000 people in hospital concurrently? 
    2000 people in hospital concurrently
  • stuart_lee_SE9
    stuart_lee_SE9 Posts: 40
    There are over 700 hospital in England, so less than 3 in each hospital. 
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,843
    Manic_mania said:
    Is that stat saying 2000 new people are entering hospital each day as a cumulative rising total or 2000 people in hospital concurrently? 

    Yes concurrently - and that's the rough average throughout 2024. It is currently less than half that, and falling. Assuming average length of stay for a Covid admission is 5 days, that current c1000 per day total would equate to approximately 200 admissions and 200 discharges per day. The average number of hospital admissions in the UK is 50,000 per day so based on these back of a fag packet calculations Covid admissions account for 0.4% of all admissions. Also bear in mind that that's 200 per day admitted with Covid, it will be less than that for patients admitted for Covid.
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
    edited December 2024
    Leroy Ambrose said:
    ME14addick said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:
    clb74 said:
    ME14addick said:


    An average of 2629 patients a day were in hospital with flu last week Up from 1861 the week before Get vaccinated this winter A bar graph showing the flu statistics from the last two weeks is displayed
    As I've said on another thread.
    Been up the hospital 10 days on the trot now.
    I should think half that number caught flu in the hospital.
    The ward I'm visiting has 6 beds   3 of them are coughing and spluttering all day.
    It's well known that the number of hospital acquired infections is very high, it shouldn't be like that. Yet when you have the the people in senior positions denying that viruses like Covid are airborne, it is hardly surprising.
    Is anyone actually denying it’s airborne? 
    Yes, at the recent module of the Covid Inquiry,  Dr Lisa Ritchie who is one of the most senior people in charge of infection prevention and control in the NHS. Despite all the expert evidence to the contrary, she maintained that the Sars Cov-2 virus was predominantly spread by droplets.

    'Predominantly spread by droplets' is not 'denying its airborne'. For God's sake, go outside and touch grass. 
    Do you think that Dr Lisa Ritchie is a fit and proper person to be in charge if Infection Prevention for the NHS?  The article also mentions Dr Jenny Harries who is Chief Executive of the UKHSA, which is tasked to keep the population safe. I've quoted part of the article, but please read it in full, because these people are covering their backs by continuing to deny how the SARS Cov-2 virus is spread and by not following the scientific evidence.

    You'll remember that Boris Johnson very quickly replaced Public Health England with The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) and put tame poodles in charge of it and they remain there today.  Thousands of people died unnecessarily, many of them healthcare workers, because of poor advice by people who were not qualified to give that advice.

    https://www.bapen.org.uk/other-news/uk-covid-19-inquiry-evidence-shows-a-leadership-culture-that-cares-even-less-for-science-than-it-does-for-healthcare-workers-lives/

    The Inquiry has heard of continuing confusion about who was responsible for making critical decisions about how the scientific evidence was used to inform guidance for protecting healthcare workers and patients. The Chief Executive of the Health Security Agency, who had a critical role in providing public answers on COVID-19 transmission and decision-making during the pandemic told the Inquiry that she was in those meetings because of her chairing skills and was not an expert in viruses.

    The Chair of the Infection Prevention and Control Cell, Lisa Ritchie, who wrote the guidance all healthcare workers had to follow as well as being a co-author of the guidance on the use of FFP3s in healthcare also gave evidence. She stated her continued belief that COVID-19 was spread by droplets and that loose-fitting surgical masks provide the similar protection as specially designed FFP3s which are mandated for high risk activities by her own guidance.

    “The most disturbing evidence heard at the Inquiry was the fact that, at the very height of the pandemic in December 2020, Ritchie and the IPC Cell ignored the expert advice and representations being made by Public Health England” says David Osborn, CATA’s Health and Safety consultant.

    “Public Health England were the designated ‘lead authority’ for the UK in time of a pandemic emergency. The Inquiry’s lawyers pointed out that Dr Colin Brown, one of PHE’s top experts, was urging the IPC Cell to take a more precautionary approach, but was seemingly ignored.”

    “Evidence from very senior figures who are going to be responsible for planning for future pandemics is chilling,” says Ms Kamini Gadhok MBE, the CATA Executive member who was CEO of the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists through the pandemic. “It’s perfectly understandable that there were difficult choices to make during the height of the COVID-19 crisis. What is incomprehensible is that officials are wedded to scientific and practice positions which have been totally discredited and which failed. When listening to their evidence, it is clear that they are clinging onto their positions, both in terms of jobs and viewpoints, despite them being untenable.”

    Speech and language therapists attempted to ensure that children were helped to develop speech, language and communication skills during the isolation of the pandemic, but were denied protection against airborne infections with appropriate RPE not being available when going into schools.

    “Viewpoints like saying a tight-fitting, purpose-designed respirator is no more effective that a “flimsy bit of plastic” offend against common sense,” Kamini explains. “The idea that you don’t rule out airborne transmission as a means by which a disease is spread, but that you don’t factor it into your precautions is blatantly foolish.”

    CATA is particularly disappointed that healthcare workers during the pandemic did not benefit from the basic protections that the law provides under the Control of Substances Hazardous to Health. These legal rules require employers to use recognised respiratory protective equipment like FFP3s, rather than surgical masks (FRSMs) to control exposure to inhaled risks and to provide the best level of protection available.

    “Jenny Harries gave evidence to suggest that, despite her not being an expert, in her view FFP3s would only give slightly better protection than FRSMs,” comments Professor Kevin Bampton, member of the CATA Executive and Chief Executive of the British Occupational Hygiene Society, “In the contexts of thousands of healthcare professionals getting ill, resulting in Long COVID and hundreds dying, even that slight benefit may still have saved lives. It is extraordinary to hear the head of the body that aims to protect our health security dismiss the value of saving even one life, where this is not just an opportunity, but a legal requirement.”

    The need for immediate action cannot be understated. It is unacceptable for governments across the UK to be passive when current IPC guidance still does not reflect the scientific evidence on airborne transmission and clarity on appropriate respiratory protective equipment. In the face of ongoing risks to the lives and health of both patients and healthcare workers along with health and safety law, we do not understand the rationale for the reluctance to make changes until the Inquiry recommendations are published.  As a result, CATA has asked the inquiry chair to consider an interim statement insisting on revision of current IPC guidance to remove inconsistent and misleading mandatory instructions which restrict precautions to protect the health of workers.

    CATA members will mark the end of Module 3 with a visit to the COVID-19 memorial wall in remembrance of their friends and colleagues impacted by the policies that they have been challenging for the past four and half years.

    For further information on CATA and its Inquiry submissions see Doctor to take the stand at COVID-19 Inquiry to expose UK officials | BAPEN


  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,843
    Leroy Ambrose said:
    ME14addick said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:
    clb74 said:
    ME14addick said:


    An average of 2629 patients a day were in hospital with flu last week Up from 1861 the week before Get vaccinated this winter A bar graph showing the flu statistics from the last two weeks is displayed
    As I've said on another thread.
    Been up the hospital 10 days on the trot now.
    I should think half that number caught flu in the hospital.
    The ward I'm visiting has 6 beds   3 of them are coughing and spluttering all day.
    It's well known that the number of hospital acquired infections is very high, it shouldn't be like that. Yet when you have the the people in senior positions denying that viruses like Covid are airborne, it is hardly surprising.
    Is anyone actually denying it’s airborne? 
    Yes, at the recent module of the Covid Inquiry,  Dr Lisa Ritchie who is one of the most senior people in charge of infection prevention and control in the NHS. Despite all the expert evidence to the contrary, she maintained that the Sars Cov-2 virus was predominantly spread by droplets.

    'Predominantly spread by droplets' is not 'denying its airborne'. For God's sake, go outside and touch grass. 

    How dare you contaminate imagination with fact!
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
    edited December 2024
    bobmunro said:
    Manic_mania said:
    Is that stat saying 2000 new people are entering hospital each day as a cumulative rising total or 2000 people in hospital concurrently? 

    Yes concurrently - and that's the rough average throughout 2024. It is currently less than half that, and falling. Assuming average length of stay for a Covid admission is 5 days, that current c1000 per day total would equate to approximately 200 admissions and 200 discharges per day. The average number of hospital admissions in the UK is 50,000 per day so based on these back of a fag packet calculations Covid admissions account for 0.4% of all admissions. Also bear in mind that that's 200 per day admitted with Covid, it will be less than that for patients admitted for Covid.
    2000 people in hospital every day is 2000 beds being taken up, however you're missing the point, which is that the media, the NHS and agencies like UKHSA are all calling for people to do all they can to stop the spread of flu (which I have no problems with), but when it comes to Covid, there is a wall of silence.

    It is less than 2000 in hospital with Covid today, but that is because the last peak was in October, but there were peaks in July and May as well, so we are due another in the not too distant future, because we do nothing to stop the spread which results in further mutations.
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,761
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