I think they're brilliant, rented a few in Vienna and it made it so much easier to get around the city.
But I can see how dangerous they can be and the rental schemes will, unfortunately, result in them cluttering the pavement making it harder for wheelchairs and prams to get by on the pavement.
I'd love to get one for myself but I'm aware of annoying other people and if the police do pull you over (I've seen it happen a couple of times in London) I believe you get 6 points on your driving license.
With the rental schemes, you have to dock them like the Santander bikes or you keep paying so they won't be cluttering the pavements. It's the bikes from Lime and the like that do the cluttering.
Have you got a link to this. As far as I can see lime say the scooters should be parked in designated bays but doesnt say anything about the user still being charged.
Looks like lime can fine the last rider if it gets reported that the scooter was left in the middle of a path but thats about it.
It’s possible I mis-interpreted the ‘marked bays’ bit in the Evening Standard article I read.
My great nephew has just been given an e-scooter for his 9th birthday.
Given my very painful experience with his hoverboard, everyone is very keen on me trying it out,
I hope he will be riding it on private land.
Well, he's in Northern Ireland. There might be different laws - there often are. Frankly, I doubt he'll stick to his own lands. He's already been zooming around a caravan park.
I'm pretty sure he'll be using the scooter to visit his mate which will involve a 200 yards or so dash along a back road. But then he's also out on his horse on the same road and in that case you are reliant upon a walnut-sized brain to understand what is going on rather than a human one. And people ride on those things!? The encephalization quotient of a horse is about 0.78, even a domestic cat's is 1.0; whereas a human's is 7.8*.
What happens to them? I'm unclear whether all the businesses selling them do a thorough check on whether they will be used legally?
We have a vehicle document so why not one for scooters?
Exactly! I don't understand why/how it is so easy to buy them if they can only be used legally off road (which must be rare in the scheme of things) or if hired
What happens to them? I'm unclear whether all the businesses selling them do a thorough check on whether they will be used legally?
We have a vehicle document so why not one for scooters?
Exactly! I don't understand why/how it is so easy to buy them if they can only be used legally off road (which must be rare in the scheme of things) or if hired
It almost suggests the government haven't thought this through.
The real problem isn’t the cycles, e-scooters etc it’s the people using them. Most folks have a brain, so far it seems that the majority of cyclists are clued up but when it comes to e-scooters it’s about 50/50.
E-scooters 'are 100 times more dangerous than bicycles', admit transport chiefs - as trials for the vehicles begin in London next month. Electric scooter trials will begin in London next month – despite an admission by transport chiefs that they could be 100 times more dangerous than bicycles.22 May 2021
As annoying as they are, I really don't see the difference between them and the electric bikes flying around. Some of those bikes are super quick and surely come under the same laws as the scooters.
As annoying as they are, I really don't see the difference between them and the electric bikes flying around. Some of those bikes are super quick and surely come under the same laws as the scooters.
It's legal to use electric bikes but there are regulations in place and they are supposed to be speed limited. I imagine this will just be another problem.
As annoying as they are, I really don't see the difference between them and the electric bikes flying around. Some of those bikes are super quick and surely come under the same laws as the scooters.
There seems to be a difference in the people who use e-scooters and how they are used (generally)
I work for the DVSA, we have a whole dept looking into micro mobility, and the legal/construction and use questions, however one thing is becoming clear some form of registration and insurance for both cyclists, and e-scooters, powered skate boards will be needed. The question is how do we enforce it as most vehicle legislation starts once the vehicle weighs above 35kgs and can exceed 10kph, (Fast walk). It might have to be done at point of sale( we were told good luck with that given the internet), however most cycles are obviously well below 35kgs. Most cyclist are only too aware what they might look like when the exit from the underside of any motor vehicle. Its only a matter of time before e-scooters start becoming a KSI statistic, in significant numbers.
For all the rhetoric it myself and Met Police colleagues who have to talk to drivers who have had a serious collision, and believe me it effects us all. Especially the guys and girls in the white hats who have to deliver the death message.
Cycle and drive with consideration for ALL road users, from the pedestrian with their ear phone in, to the disabled who might not be quite so nimble, to the cyclist who jumps the lights, don't get in a fluster, just make sure YOU are as safe as you can be.
Glad to hear your department are working on it. I'm sure someone else will have already thought of it, but what would be the problem with making it mandatory to have an insurance badge fitted to all scooters and bikes? Something the size of a PSV badge would not be obtrusive, any scooter riden without a badge would be liable for confiscation. They could even be fitted with tracker chips to monitor speed and pavement use.
"Glad to hear your department are working on it. I'm sure someone else will have already thought of it, but what would be the problem with making it mandatory to have an insurance badge fitted to all scooters and bikes? Something the size of a PSV badge would not be obtrusive, any scooter riden without a badge would be liable for confiscation. They could even be fitted with tracker chips to monitor speed and pavement use."
Badges (like registration plates) can be forged, copied, and stolen. And who would police it ? The Met? us (DVSA), Local Councils? As for tracker chips they can be blocked, and what about peoples right to privacy?
It will take an Act Of Parliament to address the whole, micro-mobility issue, remember the any act will have to include disable persons electric carriages, electric rickshaws, etc.
Thanks for your response @usedtobunkin Obviously there are a lot of issues with it, perhaps there are more that you're aware of and I'm not. In response to your points, I'd say the following.
Badges (like registration plates) can be forged, copied, and stolen.
This is undoubtedly true, but it's true of practically everything in life. If it is profitable for people to circumvent the law, some people will try to do it. I don't believe we should limit our measures to those that will be 100% successful. If we did, we wouldn't have anything.
And who would police it ? The Met? us (DVSA), Local Councils?
I'd think licence provision would have to be policed on a national level, so presumably the DVSA would be the best fit. Though, like all govt Departments and Agencies it would need proper resourcing to operate. Costs to be met by a charge on the end user. Schemes could be operated though licenced businesses. As for policing on the ground, I think both police and councils could have a role to play.
As for tracker chips they can be blocked, and what about peoples right to privacy?
Blocked chips would be invalidated - big penalties for this. As for privacy, perhaps 'tracker' is the wrong phrase. I've no interest in knowing where people have come from or where they are going to, but it should be possible to record if they've gone out of bounds (pedestrian only areas) or gone too fast. There are already a range of measures that are allowed for such things within motor vehicles including speed cameras, bus lane cameras, private car park cameras and tachographs in commercial vehicles. None of these are deemed to infringe on rights to privacy. The law could be framed so that chips on scooters don't either.
It will take an Act Of Parliament to address the whole, micro-mobility issue, remember the any act will have to include disable persons electric carriages, electric rickshaws, etc.
Needing an act of parliament should never be an excuse for not doing something. Our MPs are there to serve us. Good point about disability transport, hadn't though of that and wasn't aware of electric rickshaws - now I want a go on one ;-)
Comments
Looked down at my speedometer, I was going at 22mph... And he didn't slowly go past me, zipped past.
I'm pretty sure he'll be using the scooter to visit his mate which will involve a 200 yards or so dash along a back road. But then he's also out on his horse on the same road and in that case you are reliant upon a walnut-sized brain to understand what is going on rather than a human one. And people ride on those things!? The encephalization quotient of a horse is about 0.78, even a domestic cat's is 1.0; whereas a human's is 7.8*.
* A lot less for Millwall supporters obviously.
But then there's the general rule of thumb about NI: they are happy to do anything as long as it is illegal and/or dangerous. Sadly this is an all too typical incident https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ballycastle-tractor-crash-tragedy-miracle-as-five-year-old-hannah-smyth-returns-home-after-three-months-in-hospital-39450514.html
The home of potcheen and red diesel is not going to care about e-scooter legislation.
Police say they removed more than 500 e-scooters from the streets of London last week.
Officers confiscated 507 of the contraptions during "proactive patrols" across all boroughs.
The "week of action" was triggered by the increased usage of uninsured e-scooters in London, police said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57609088
We have a vehicle document so why not one for scooters?
Yeah, OK mate.
Through the park gates, wnker sign and hopped on and ridden through the estate
https://www.mylondon.news/news/london-e-scooters-could-100-20662660
E-scooters 'are 100 times more dangerous than bicycles', admit transport chiefs - as trials for the vehicles begin in London next month. Electric scooter trials will begin in London next month – despite an admission by transport chiefs that they could be 100 times more dangerous than bicycles.22 May 2021
Badges (like registration plates) can be forged, copied, and stolen. And who would police it ? The Met? us (DVSA), Local Councils? As for tracker chips they can be blocked, and what about peoples right to privacy?
It will take an Act Of Parliament to address the whole, micro-mobility issue, remember the any act will have to include disable persons electric carriages, electric rickshaws, etc.
- Badges (like registration plates) can be forged, copied, and stolen.
This is undoubtedly true, but it's true of practically everything in life. If it is profitable for people to circumvent the law, some people will try to do it. I don't believe we should limit our measures to those that will be 100% successful. If we did, we wouldn't have anything.- And who would police it ? The Met? us (DVSA), Local Councils?
I'd think licence provision would have to be policed on a national level, so presumably the DVSA would be the best fit. Though, like all govt Departments and Agencies it would need proper resourcing to operate. Costs to be met by a charge on the end user. Schemes could be operated though licenced businesses. As for policing on the ground, I think both police and councils could have a role to play.- As for tracker chips they can be blocked, and what about peoples right to privacy?
Blocked chips would be invalidated - big penalties for this. As for privacy, perhaps 'tracker' is the wrong phrase. I've no interest in knowing where people have come from or where they are going to, but it should be possible to record if they've gone out of bounds (pedestrian only areas) or gone too fast. There are already a range of measures that are allowed for such things within motor vehicles including speed cameras, bus lane cameras, private car park cameras and tachographs in commercial vehicles. None of these are deemed to infringe on rights to privacy. The law could be framed so that chips on scooters don't either.- It will take an Act Of Parliament to address the whole, micro-mobility issue, remember the any act will have to include disable persons electric carriages, electric rickshaws, etc.
Needing an act of parliament should never be an excuse for not doing something. Our MPs are there to serve us. Good point about disability transport, hadn't though of that and wasn't aware of electric rickshaws - now I want a go on one ;-)rip the lad who was killed