Why is Deji winning headers a surprise. Since he has come back into the team he has been one of our most consistent performers and definitely our best defender (not that he's had much competition) but some people still want to put him down. Things like "he's a mistake waiting to happen" being one of the favourites. We're already in a shit state without him it would be a lot worse.
All the time that he remains one of our centre backs we will continue to ship goals for fun. He gives his all but just isn't good enough. He will head the ball and win some tackles but he is generally clumsy when he challenges for the ball and gives away needless fouls time and time again. A lot of people seem to think that unless a player makes an obvious clanger then they can't be blamed when a goal is conceded. Deji is poor positionally because he does not read the game well. He allows himself to be dragged away from the centre far too often and there is no cohesion in the defence when he plays.
I read that twice and still can't believe that you actually wrote it. It's obvious that you don't like him and no matter what he does it will never be good enough for you. 🙄
It has nothing to do with not liking him. I don't rate him as a footballer but, if he continues to play for us, I hope that he proves me wrong. I very much doubt that though.
I feel sorry for all those that lumped on top 6 finish
even concerned for those that have top half.
I cashed out my £1,000 top half finish this morning and got all my money back. Also cashed out £100 on top 6 & lost £12.50. I've still got other top half bets on though.
When is enough enough ? We have now won 4 games in our last 17.
Is it when we win 5 in 20....?
Or when we win 6 in 23 ?
Week in & week out I read that its a blip, we won 6 on the trot, wait for the "big 2" to come back.....blah blah blah.
Will you now accept that he has taken us as far as he can.
I asked the question on the Bowyer Out thread but unfortunately no one has provided an answer
Should Curbs and Gritt have been sacked in 92/93 when we went on a similar run where we got 14-points from 17-games whereas we've gone 18-points from 17-games at the present...? - There is absolutely zero patience amongst Football fans anymore
For me its not a case he cant be at fault for anything, even I've been critical in recent weeks
But for me he gets a period into next season depending on results, gets a proper summer to work in pre-season @ Sparrows Lane and on a Training Camp to actually build a squad that is built on unity. This team has been rushed, its been put together in a panicked mess, its like sticking up a wall without any foundations and hoping it can do the job its there for.
The teams around us, how many of them have had to build virtually from scratch AGAIN this season... Instead I imagine they've put together a team of players that has been improved over the seasons to the point its strong enough to mount a serious promotion challenge
Regardless of who the Manager is next season, this summer HAS to be the last time that happens
We talk about recovering from Roland's era, we talk about the damage ESI have done, its going to take time to recover as a Football club.
But we wont get anywhere as a team without a stable team that is constantly being replaced and changed every season
did any of that make bowyer drop purrington after our first clean sheet in ages,? bench millar after a motm performance and bench aneke, who, along with millar is one of the only 2 players available that can go past anybody? - i'm sorry, its brainless and he has to go
As a Loyal supporter of CAFC for 50 years I cannot understand why so many fans think That Sacking Lee Bowyer is the simple fix. We have been missing our two star defenders
For the last 8 plus Games. It does not take a genius to see that if the two Valuable assets had been playing we would now Probably be in the Top 4 and Lee Bowyer would Not have had to made so many changes and alterations to our failing and Goal leaking defence. once AKEN & INNIS are back the difference will be obvious even to many of anti Bowyer department. 👍👍👍
Famewo and Inniss have played together four times and in one of the games Inniss was sent off. I do think they are the best central defensive pairing and would love to have them playing in tandem, but there is way too much weight being placed on this pairing as a solution.
I have no idea how Lee Bowyer can argue that three of his four centre halves are (nearly) available given he prefers to play Gunter/Oshilaja over Oshilaja/Pearce when Pearce is available (which is not to say that is a wrong call, just that it shows he can also see Pearce is no longer a regular option).
The Manager and players are completely bereft of confidence, it started last season and has run into this one. We no longer play with any freedom and our players fear making mistakes.
Bowyer's attitude towards attacking, flowing football isn't going to suddenly change. I had hoped he'd stopped mugging his players off to the media, he hasn't. Was Albie's decision to shoot really a poor one? Well after clipping the bar not long before probably not, sure the execution wasn't fantastic but he created enough space and another day that's on target. Under Bowyer we will continue to pass to midfield, pass to defence, pass around defence until either a mistake or a long pumped ball forward.... That is all we have style wise. We're constantly waiting for gaps to open up further up field and it's not happening, because this isn't Sunday league.
In addition to this Chuks has looked like off the boil lately, we've not adapted to play in our new striker, we've not adapted our play to allow for Washington's injury and we look all over the shop. We nick Swindon's best two players and they go on and win their next game... We know that'd be another excuse for Bowyer to have lost a game after losing two players. I'm surprised he didn't use it about Jonny, Maddison and Bogle tbh.
I'll finish by saying I liked Lee Bowyer, what he did in 18/19 was stunning, but it's been 23 wins from his last 72 games. Sure 46 of those were in the league above, but that run including a relegation would see most managers elsewhere sacked, even in spite of his challenges faced.
He hasn't stayed for us the fans or his love of CAFC, he has stayed because Southall put him on a big tasty contract with a high pay out if he were to be sacked. That has two years left on it and Lee won't walk away with that payout hovering in the background.
If he were to miraculously change his ways and we return to winning ways and made the playoffs of course I'd accept I was wrong. But it is not about to happen. I imagine when he does get sacked, he will be straight back to his fishing lakes with enough money to never have to care about Football again.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Where was this shout during the Summer court cases or before the bad run of form? I hope you’re not just being reactive to recent results.
It’s no problem hating his style of management or wanting him to be replaced with someone else, but to suggest he’s only here for the money is utter nonsense.
He was approached multiple times before this “big tasty contract”, which still isn’t anywhere near what other managers are paid in the Championship. He was doing a good job, well respected in the game and the fans loved him - hence being rewarded accordingly.
Why twist the narrative? It’s this sort of rubbish that muddies the waters and just adds to the already toxic fan base.
Do you think he would have stayed if he'd been offered shit money? Don't be so naive.
The Manager and players are completely bereft of confidence, it started last season and has run into this one. We no longer play with any freedom and our players fear making mistakes.
Bowyer's attitude towards attacking, flowing football isn't going to suddenly change. I had hoped he'd stopped mugging his players off to the media, he hasn't. Was Albie's decision to shoot really a poor one? Well after clipping the bar not long before probably not, sure the execution wasn't fantastic but he created enough space and another day that's on target. Under Bowyer we will continue to pass to midfield, pass to defence, pass around defence until either a mistake or a long pumped ball forward.... That is all we have style wise. We're constantly waiting for gaps to open up further up field and it's not happening, because this isn't Sunday league.
In addition to this Chuks has looked like off the boil lately, we've not adapted to play in our new striker, we've not adapted our play to allow for Washington's injury and we look all over the shop. We nick Swindon's best two players and they go on and win their next game... We know that'd be another excuse for Bowyer to have lost a game after losing two players. I'm surprised he didn't use it about Jonny, Maddison and Bogle tbh.
I'll finish by saying I liked Lee Bowyer, what he did in 18/19 was stunning, but it's been 23 wins from his last 72 games. Sure 46 of those were in the league above, but that run including a relegation would see most managers elsewhere sacked, even in spite of his challenges faced.
He hasn't stayed for us the fans or his love of CAFC, he has stayed because Southall put him on a big tasty contract with a high pay out if he were to be sacked. That has two years left on it and Lee won't walk away with that payout hovering in the background.
If he were to miraculously change his ways and we return to winning ways and made the playoffs of course I'd accept I was wrong. But it is not about to happen. I imagine when he does get sacked, he will be straight back to his fishing lakes with enough money to never have to care about Football again.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Where was this shout during the Summer court cases or before the bad run of form? I hope you’re not just being reactive to recent results.
It’s no problem hating his style of management or wanting him to be replaced with someone else, but to suggest he’s only here for the money is utter nonsense.
He was approached multiple times before this “big tasty contract”, which still isn’t anywhere near what other managers are paid in the Championship. He was doing a good job, well respected in the game and the fans loved him - hence being rewarded accordingly.
Why twist the narrative? It’s this sort of rubbish that muddies the waters and just adds to the already toxic fan base.
I have not once fully believed any player or manager has ever stayed with us because of their love for the club aside from Curbishley and maybe Powell.
Bowyer made it clear that the contract needed to protect him in the event he were to be sacked. A real possibility at the time given the results and that he was privy to the news at that point that we were under a transfer embargo. Hence it going from a standard (BS on the spot) 5 year offer to 3 with a payout if sacked. His last contract from RD (a one year extension) was reported to be worth £400,000 (Equal to over £7,500 a week) so don't believe for a minute that the new contract will be less than that.
I was pleased Bowyer stayed and got the new protected contract from Southall etc, but don't pretend he's not on good money for a League 1 manager, the job in which he is struggling. Just because it was deemed positive then (awarded for winning 1 in 16 by the way) doesn't mean it is still positive now, it has become the obstacle it was designed to.
If Bowyer turns the ship around and gets us back performing, I'll still feel the same about his contract and reasons for it. As I will if he gets snapped up by another club.
i laugh at the should have had a centre back lined up comment from others, how could he ? We had no money to bring players in, we had to get players out the door which we have managed to do in the last couple of days, when we have had decent players Bowyer has proved he can do it, first 6 months of last year fit squad we were flying. Fuck me I actually think the players aint good enough and believe if he is here come the summer you will a mass cull and squad turnaround a la Chris Powell.
Apparently we had enough to sign Smith. Yes he was on loan but there's got to be some 20 year old prospect out there who'd make a better back up CB than Gunter.
Just shows different opinions I agree Deji is not first choice.but at the moment he is because of injuries. But I think his been best defender we’ve had in last 3 matches.
The Manager and players are completely bereft of confidence, it started last season and has run into this one. We no longer play with any freedom and our players fear making mistakes.
Bowyer's attitude towards attacking, flowing football isn't going to suddenly change. I had hoped he'd stopped mugging his players off to the media, he hasn't. Was Albie's decision to shoot really a poor one? Well after clipping the bar not long before probably not, sure the execution wasn't fantastic but he created enough space and another day that's on target. Under Bowyer we will continue to pass to midfield, pass to defence, pass around defence until either a mistake or a long pumped ball forward.... That is all we have style wise. We're constantly waiting for gaps to open up further up field and it's not happening, because this isn't Sunday league.
In addition to this Chuks has looked like off the boil lately, we've not adapted to play in our new striker, we've not adapted our play to allow for Washington's injury and we look all over the shop. We nick Swindon's best two players and they go on and win their next game... We know that'd be another excuse for Bowyer to have lost a game after losing two players. I'm surprised he didn't use it about Jonny, Maddison and Bogle tbh.
I'll finish by saying I liked Lee Bowyer, what he did in 18/19 was stunning, but it's been 23 wins from his last 72 games. Sure 46 of those were in the league above, but that run including a relegation would see most managers elsewhere sacked, even in spite of his challenges faced.
He hasn't stayed for us the fans or his love of CAFC, he has stayed because Southall put him on a big tasty contract with a high pay out if he were to be sacked. That has two years left on it and Lee won't walk away with that payout hovering in the background.
If he were to miraculously change his ways and we return to winning ways and made the playoffs of course I'd accept I was wrong. But it is not about to happen. I imagine when he does get sacked, he will be straight back to his fishing lakes with enough money to never have to care about Football again.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Where was this shout during the Summer court cases or before the bad run of form? I hope you’re not just being reactive to recent results.
It’s no problem hating his style of management or wanting him to be replaced with someone else, but to suggest he’s only here for the money is utter nonsense.
He was approached multiple times before this “big tasty contract”, which still isn’t anywhere near what other managers are paid in the Championship. He was doing a good job, well respected in the game and the fans loved him - hence being rewarded accordingly.
Why twist the narrative? It’s this sort of rubbish that muddies the waters and just adds to the already toxic fan base.
Do you think he would have stayed if he'd been offered shit money? Don't be so naive.
What do you mean, what’s that got to do with anything? He was on shit money and stayed despite having offers from much richer and bigger clubs. He then got offered a contract to stay longer.
It’s a literal non-point. It offers zero insight about anything. It’s needlessly questioning the content of a mans character for the sake of it.
People are forgetting Innis's injury record and crikey, think about it for a second.
If he can injure himself for 3 months just kicking a ball in training, do you really think he will make it to the end of season without another spell on the sidelines after competitive (I hope) games.
I think that is putting it a bit far. It isn't a character fault that he is loyal in the same way most people in football are loyal. It is fair enough to question people who think he is loyalty personified. Of course neither side will know for sure. So you will get and should expect contrasting views.
Amos: Matthews: culpable for 2nd goal, spoilt a decent showing Gunter: Oshilaja: like Bambi on ice half the time - got something in the way sometimes - positioning and reading of the game is miserable Maatsen: no protection or help of any kind form the heinous piss taker in front of him for 70 odd minutes Shinnie: didn't try a leg - hit one good corner and hid diligently for the rest of his wage stealing shit show - shameful Pratley: scuppered by a fat failure of a referee Morgan: did all Shinnie's work and more besides - then carried the can for the pisstaker's crime - Bowyer hates him with a passion- bizarre Forster-Caskey: being a man down for 70 minutes the midfield was overrun but JFC tries his nuts off - his dead balls are still poxy tho Stockley: looked excellent when we were playing to his prodigious strength - a good find Schwartz: didn't get a lot of service, familiarity with JS will come with playing time Millar: why he was held back so long is as baffling as it is unforgivable, at this level he's mustard Watson: took over when Pratley got sawn off - given a hospital pass by Matthews for the 2nd goal Aneke: what the actual? dawdled about, constantly on his heels, should have made simple pass to Millar for a facile tap in but shot into a forest of legs, then complained when Millar rightly bollocked him for it afterwards - measurably less use than a knackered Schwartz, dreadful. Referee: bottled a penalty, fell for pompey's chicanery, one of the few things he got right was the added time - fat and slow
Why is Deji winning headers a surprise. Since he has come back into the team he has been one of our most consistent performers and definitely our best defender (not that he's had much competition) but some people still want to put him down. Things like "he's a mistake waiting to happen" being one of the favourites. We're already in a shit state without him it would be a lot worse.
All the time that he remains one of our centre backs we will continue to ship goals for fun. He gives his all but just isn't good enough. He will head the ball and win some tackles but he is generally clumsy when he challenges for the ball and gives away needless fouls time and time again. A lot of people seem to think that unless a player makes an obvious clanger then they can't be blamed when a goal is conceded. Deji is poor positionally because he does not read the game well. He allows himself to be dragged away from the centre far too often and there is no cohesion in the defence when he plays.
I read that twice and still can't believe that you actually wrote it. It's obvious that you don't like him and no matter what he does it will never be good enough for you. 🙄
It has nothing to do with not liking him. I don't rate him as a footballer but, if he continues to play for us, I hope that he proves me wrong. I very much doubt that though.
He wasn't at fault IMO for any of the goals yesterday. Sure he slipped but so did Pratley, he then got up and was pushed over and still got back up to force their player over making it a snap shot instead of a clean strike the player had. That was the only thing I'd put down to him. He effectively tidied up several other mistakes from others
The Manager and players are completely bereft of confidence, it started last season and has run into this one. We no longer play with any freedom and our players fear making mistakes.
Bowyer's attitude towards attacking, flowing football isn't going to suddenly change. I had hoped he'd stopped mugging his players off to the media, he hasn't. Was Albie's decision to shoot really a poor one? Well after clipping the bar not long before probably not, sure the execution wasn't fantastic but he created enough space and another day that's on target. Under Bowyer we will continue to pass to midfield, pass to defence, pass around defence until either a mistake or a long pumped ball forward.... That is all we have style wise. We're constantly waiting for gaps to open up further up field and it's not happening, because this isn't Sunday league.
In addition to this Chuks has looked like off the boil lately, we've not adapted to play in our new striker, we've not adapted our play to allow for Washington's injury and we look all over the shop. We nick Swindon's best two players and they go on and win their next game... We know that'd be another excuse for Bowyer to have lost a game after losing two players. I'm surprised he didn't use it about Jonny, Maddison and Bogle tbh.
I'll finish by saying I liked Lee Bowyer, what he did in 18/19 was stunning, but it's been 23 wins from his last 72 games. Sure 46 of those were in the league above, but that run including a relegation would see most managers elsewhere sacked, even in spite of his challenges faced.
He hasn't stayed for us the fans or his love of CAFC, he has stayed because Southall put him on a big tasty contract with a high pay out if he were to be sacked. That has two years left on it and Lee won't walk away with that payout hovering in the background.
If he were to miraculously change his ways and we return to winning ways and made the playoffs of course I'd accept I was wrong. But it is not about to happen. I imagine when he does get sacked, he will be straight back to his fishing lakes with enough money to never have to care about Football again.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Where was this shout during the Summer court cases or before the bad run of form? I hope you’re not just being reactive to recent results.
It’s no problem hating his style of management or wanting him to be replaced with someone else, but to suggest he’s only here for the money is utter nonsense.
He was approached multiple times before this “big tasty contract”, which still isn’t anywhere near what other managers are paid in the Championship. He was doing a good job, well respected in the game and the fans loved him - hence being rewarded accordingly.
Why twist the narrative? It’s this sort of rubbish that muddies the waters and just adds to the already toxic fan base.
Do you think he would have stayed if he'd been offered shit money? Don't be so naive.
What do you mean, what’s that got to do with anything? He was on shit money and stayed despite having offers from much richer and bigger clubs. He then got offered a contract to stay longer.
It’s a literal non-point. It offers zero insight about anything. It’s needlessly questioning the content of a mans character for the sake of it.
How did I question his character? I questioned whether he would have stayed if a better offer actually came in. None have as far as the media reports, Cardiff were once interested back last January they didn't approach him as far as I am aware, but that was the only club I remember? Some whispers about Leeds the season before I think?
I do not question his character. I simply state he hasn't been sacked because of his contract, which I believe to be the same reason he has stayed from his choosing. He won't walk away from that potential pay out, he'd be mad to.
It's a job at the end of the day, he will leave when it most benefits him to unless fired.
When is enough enough ? We have now won 4 games in our last 17.
Is it when we win 5 in 20....?
Or when we win 6 in 23 ?
Week in & week out I read that its a blip, we won 6 on the trot, wait for the "big 2" to come back.....blah blah blah.
Will you now accept that he has taken us as far as he can.
I asked the question on the Bowyer Out thread but unfortunately no one has provided an answer
Should Curbs and Gritt have been sacked in 92/93 when we went on a similar run where we got 14-points from 17-games whereas we've gone 18-points from 17-games at the present...? - There is absolutely zero patience amongst Football fans anymore
For me its not a case he cant be at fault for anything, even I've been critical in recent weeks
But for me he gets a period into next season depending on results, gets a proper summer to work in pre-season @ Sparrows Lane and on a Training Camp to actually build a squad that is built on unity. This team has been rushed, its been put together in a panicked mess, its like sticking up a wall without any foundations and hoping it can do the job its there for.
The teams around us, how many of them have had to build virtually from scratch AGAIN this season... Instead I imagine they've put together a team of players that has been improved over the seasons to the point its strong enough to mount a serious promotion challenge
Regardless of who the Manager is next season, this summer HAS to be the last time that happens
We talk about recovering from Roland's era, we talk about the damage ESI have done, its going to take time to recover as a Football club.
But we wont get anywhere as a team without a stable team that is constantly being replaced and changed every season
did any of that make bowyer drop purrington after our first clean sheet in ages,? bench millar after a motm performance and bench aneke, who, along with millar is one of the only 2 players available that can go past anybody? - i'm sorry, its brainless and he has to go
As a Loyal supporter of CAFC for 50 years I cannot understand why so many fans think That Sacking Lee Bowyer is the simple fix. We have been missing our two star defenders
For the last 8 plus Games. It does not take a genius to see that if the two Valuable assets had been playing we would now Probably be in the Top 4 and Lee Bowyer would Not have had to made so many changes and alterations to our failing and Goal leaking defence. once AKEN & INNIS are back the difference will be obvious even to many of anti Bowyer department. 👍👍👍
i understand that but why drop purrington? why string 4 paceless centre mids across the park and why play a little and large up top with no width? i'm sorry but i've seen enough over the last year and i know all the excuses and mitigating circumstances
No Excuses Only a total looney of which you respectfully are not would think that AKEN & INNIS would not make a huge unpack to this team. if we had had them both we would be top 4 I have no doubt. Lee Bowyer should be given until the end of the season. as we are not going to be relegated.👍👍👍
People are forgetting Innis's injury record and crikey, think about it for a second.
If he can injure himself for 3 months just kicking a ball in training, do you really think he will make it to the end of season without another spell on the sidelines after competitive (I hope) games.
yeah, it was something that bothered me when we got him. Plenty of injuries in his career to date. Looks good when he does play but in the January window we should of been looking for a centre half because i can see Innis having another injury in the future. We will certainly need one if not two in the summer, just hope by then its not too late.
Put some fucking studs in your boots. In fact, get some proper boots that you can't just pull on like slippers.
Agree but they don't exist. I challenge you to go to Decathlon or Inter Sport and find some because I bloody can't. I even proposed Rugby boots to my 10 year old boy such was my disbelief at the soppy shit they sell as football boots.
If you get trod on with modern boots it hurts far more than it used to.
My understanding without knowing 100% is that he negotiated a decent contract with Southall. I'm not criticising him for that and most of us were happy with that at the time. I think it is around £400k per year with use of £90k car and expenses.
There was clearly interest, but the only firm (likely to happen) bit of interest was Birmingham last season. This would have been on a better deal than he has now but people should factor in the possibility he is settled in Sevenoaks with kids at school.
Nobody can know whether his decision to stay was down to loyalty to his family or the club. I'm sure he has some loyalty to the club although I am not sure how much. Which is absolutely not being critical, likening him to the majority of people in his profession where loyalty doesn't work both ways (nor should it).
The question shouldn't be about loyalty anyway. It should be whether he is holding us back or not. The club should always come first.
I can’t believe we’re now at a stage where people are saying Bowyer is only here for the money and a possible pay out! Ridiculous. F**k all loyalty left in the game, and we have someone who has stuck by us. Just because he’s struggling (in his first managerial position) at this moment, doesn’t mean we can now start bringing up his wages. I’ve never read anything on here about Bowyer being here for the money until today. Reactive to the extreme.
The Manager and players are completely bereft of confidence, it started last season and has run into this one. We no longer play with any freedom and our players fear making mistakes.
Bowyer's attitude towards attacking, flowing football isn't going to suddenly change. I had hoped he'd stopped mugging his players off to the media, he hasn't. Was Albie's decision to shoot really a poor one? Well after clipping the bar not long before probably not, sure the execution wasn't fantastic but he created enough space and another day that's on target. Under Bowyer we will continue to pass to midfield, pass to defence, pass around defence until either a mistake or a long pumped ball forward.... That is all we have style wise. We're constantly waiting for gaps to open up further up field and it's not happening, because this isn't Sunday league.
In addition to this Chuks has looked like off the boil lately, we've not adapted to play in our new striker, we've not adapted our play to allow for Washington's injury and we look all over the shop. We nick Swindon's best two players and they go on and win their next game... We know that'd be another excuse for Bowyer to have lost a game after losing two players. I'm surprised he didn't use it about Jonny, Maddison and Bogle tbh.
I'll finish by saying I liked Lee Bowyer, what he did in 18/19 was stunning, but it's been 23 wins from his last 72 games. Sure 46 of those were in the league above, but that run including a relegation would see most managers elsewhere sacked, even in spite of his challenges faced.
He hasn't stayed for us the fans or his love of CAFC, he has stayed because Southall put him on a big tasty contract with a high pay out if he were to be sacked. That has two years left on it and Lee won't walk away with that payout hovering in the background.
If he were to miraculously change his ways and we return to winning ways and made the playoffs of course I'd accept I was wrong. But it is not about to happen. I imagine when he does get sacked, he will be straight back to his fishing lakes with enough money to never have to care about Football again.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Where was this shout during the Summer court cases or before the bad run of form? I hope you’re not just being reactive to recent results.
It’s no problem hating his style of management or wanting him to be replaced with someone else, but to suggest he’s only here for the money is utter nonsense.
He was approached multiple times before this “big tasty contract”, which still isn’t anywhere near what other managers are paid in the Championship. He was doing a good job, well respected in the game and the fans loved him - hence being rewarded accordingly.
Why twist the narrative? It’s this sort of rubbish that muddies the waters and just adds to the already toxic fan base.
Do you think he would have stayed if he'd been offered shit money? Don't be so naive.
What do you mean, what’s that got to do with anything? He was on shit money and stayed despite having offers from much richer and bigger clubs. He then got offered a contract to stay longer.
It’s a literal non-point. It offers zero insight about anything. It’s needlessly questioning the content of a mans character for the sake of it.
How did I question his character? I questioned whether he would have stayed if a better offer actually came in. None have as far as the media reports, Cardiff were once interested back last January they didn't approach him as far as I am aware, but that was the only club I remember? Some whispers about Leeds the season before I think?
I do not question his character. I simply state he hasn't been sacked because of his contract, which I believe to be the same reason he has stayed from his choosing. He won't walk away from that potential pay out, he'd be mad to.
Depends on your definition of questioning character I suppose. To me, it's neither here nor there why he's stayed - but to assert the reason he's stayed is due to money is pointless, it skews objective reality to show him in a negative light.
During the interest from other clubs, he was the lowest-paid manager in the league, money was not a reason for staying. During Roland mucking about with the renewal of his contract, he could have left and been one of the hottest properties in the EFL (at the time), he didn't leave and it wasn't about his pay packet. Bowyer is already a rich man, settled at a club he cares about, with his kids in school and a home nearby. Yes, he wants to be paid fairly but so does every other human on the planet. He won't walk away from a payout, but neither would you or I.
My whole point is the money side of Bowyer is irrelevant. If you don't like him there are plenty of other angles you can dig at him for.
If Sandgaard wants to sack him, he will sack him - the payout will not be an obstacle that stops Sandgaard getting the right manager in charge.
I don't think people are saying Bowyer is disloyal. But if people want to make him out to be more loyal than most in the game, it is surely reasonable to speculate why that may or may not be the case.
When is enough enough ? We have now won 4 games in our last 17.
Is it when we win 5 in 20....?
Or when we win 6 in 23 ?
Week in & week out I read that its a blip, we won 6 on the trot, wait for the "big 2" to come back.....blah blah blah.
Will you now accept that he has taken us as far as he can.
I asked the question on the Bowyer Out thread but unfortunately no one has provided an answer
Should Curbs and Gritt have been sacked in 92/93 when we went on a similar run where we got 14-points from 17-games whereas we've gone 18-points from 17-games at the present...? - There is absolutely zero patience amongst Football fans anymore
For me its not a case he cant be at fault for anything, even I've been critical in recent weeks
But for me he gets a period into next season depending on results, gets a proper summer to work in pre-season @ Sparrows Lane and on a Training Camp to actually build a squad that is built on unity. This team has been rushed, its been put together in a panicked mess, its like sticking up a wall without any foundations and hoping it can do the job its there for.
The teams around us, how many of them have had to build virtually from scratch AGAIN this season... Instead I imagine they've put together a team of players that has been improved over the seasons to the point its strong enough to mount a serious promotion challenge
Regardless of who the Manager is next season, this summer HAS to be the last time that happens
We talk about recovering from Roland's era, we talk about the damage ESI have done, its going to take time to recover as a Football club.
But we wont get anywhere as a team without a stable team that is constantly being replaced and changed every season
did any of that make bowyer drop purrington after our first clean sheet in ages,? bench millar after a motm performance and bench aneke, who, along with millar is one of the only 2 players available that can go past anybody? - i'm sorry, its brainless and he has to go
As a Loyal supporter of CAFC for 50 years I cannot understand why so many fans think That Sacking Lee Bowyer is the simple fix. We have been missing our two star defenders
For the last 8 plus Games. It does not take a genius to see that if the two Valuable assets had been playing we would now Probably be in the Top 4 and Lee Bowyer would Not have had to made so many changes and alterations to our failing and Goal leaking defence. once AKEN & INNIS are back the difference will be obvious even to many of anti Bowyer department. 👍👍👍
i understand that but why drop purrington? why string 4 paceless centre mids across the park and why play a little and large up top with no width? i'm sorry but i've seen enough over the last year and i know all the excuses and mitigating circumstances
No Excuses Only a total looney of which you respectfully are not would think that AKEN & INNIS would not make a huge unpack to this team. if we had had them both we would be top 4 I have no doubt. Lee Bowyer should be given until the end of the season. as we are not going to be relegated.👍👍👍
Both would make a difference but both (Inniss moreso admittedly) have had injury/fitness problems before. Having them as your first choice is great, the lack of depth behind them is very much not.
Deji would be fine or even good alongside another proper CB I'm sure. Having to play alongside someone who is either out of position or Pearce would test much better defenders than he is. If it were either Inniss or Famewo having to try and defend in the same circumstances I doubt they would look quite so impressive.
People are forgetting Innis's injury record and crikey, think about it for a second.
If he can injure himself for 3 months just kicking a ball in training, do you really think he will make it to the end of season without another spell on the sidelines after competitive (I hope) games.
Never played more than 22 games in a season before.
PWR as I like to think once the dust has settled on a game my emotions are more controlled!
For me personally i think the level of frustration is two or three fold. I'm frustrated that the players we signed to win games havent performed (Maddison, Watson,Gilbey, Gunter, Maatsen after the first 10 games etc), that players who we thought we could rely on seem to have stagnated or gone backwards (Mathews, Williams (before he left),Pratley, Morgan, Pearce) and thirdly as a result the constant changing of the team, which to me always breeds inconsistent results. Even the best teams, when they tinker too much, they lose performance, BUT still have the overall skill to win games. Man Utd being a great example of a team who have played shite more often than not this season but got away with it through sheer sweat or a spark of genius.
But I think that may be the issue, that our squad just isn't good enough currently to cope with the changes each week, and from every game I've watched we have been at best 50-50, but most of the time it seems playing on the edge, coming from behind or being outplayed. Is there a "best 11" really, that will win games consistently?
Aneke has the odd beast game, Stockley looks like he will be the same. Millar has been a bright spark but he doesnt strike me as a consistent performer who will pull a team through when its down to hard graft alone. So aside from JFC being consistent, but only in a steady Eddie kind of way, is anyone else performing at peak level currently?
Is it coaching, is it Covid melancholy (i do think without a crowd the Valley is like a home game to away teams), who knows? But I think LB deserves a full preseason with his squad in the summer, come back to crowds, fresh signings, a shape worked on for 4-6 weeks, and then stick with the core of his best team. If by October there is no change then I think we'll have the answer that coaching is the main issue.
I want us to go on this magic run of wins, but I just think we're too weak overall and off form more importantly, to do it.
Would be interesting to see what team/formation everyone thinks would get the best out of the team, for what it's worth (4-3-1-2);
Amos Mathews(if he can regain form!) Innis Famewo Purrington (as I honestly dont think Maatsen can defend, sorry!) Shinnie JFC Gilbey (if he could find any form) Millar/DJ Aneke Stockley
This would leave Schwartz and one of DJ/Millar on the bench, with Maatsen, Oshilaja, Maynard-Brewer, Pratley, Morgan
I'd also go more direct with hold up/knock downs giving opportunities for Millar running on, plus support from Shinnie and Gilbey.
This is probably the most I thought about it this season so last night must have been a watershed moment for me! I trust in Bowyer, but it's not unconditional.
The Manager and players are completely bereft of confidence, it started last season and has run into this one. We no longer play with any freedom and our players fear making mistakes.
Bowyer's attitude towards attacking, flowing football isn't going to suddenly change. I had hoped he'd stopped mugging his players off to the media, he hasn't. Was Albie's decision to shoot really a poor one? Well after clipping the bar not long before probably not, sure the execution wasn't fantastic but he created enough space and another day that's on target. Under Bowyer we will continue to pass to midfield, pass to defence, pass around defence until either a mistake or a long pumped ball forward.... That is all we have style wise. We're constantly waiting for gaps to open up further up field and it's not happening, because this isn't Sunday league.
In addition to this Chuks has looked like off the boil lately, we've not adapted to play in our new striker, we've not adapted our play to allow for Washington's injury and we look all over the shop. We nick Swindon's best two players and they go on and win their next game... We know that'd be another excuse for Bowyer to have lost a game after losing two players. I'm surprised he didn't use it about Jonny, Maddison and Bogle tbh.
I'll finish by saying I liked Lee Bowyer, what he did in 18/19 was stunning, but it's been 23 wins from his last 72 games. Sure 46 of those were in the league above, but that run including a relegation would see most managers elsewhere sacked, even in spite of his challenges faced.
He hasn't stayed for us the fans or his love of CAFC, he has stayed because Southall put him on a big tasty contract with a high pay out if he were to be sacked. That has two years left on it and Lee won't walk away with that payout hovering in the background.
If he were to miraculously change his ways and we return to winning ways and made the playoffs of course I'd accept I was wrong. But it is not about to happen. I imagine when he does get sacked, he will be straight back to his fishing lakes with enough money to never have to care about Football again.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Where was this shout during the Summer court cases or before the bad run of form? I hope you’re not just being reactive to recent results.
It’s no problem hating his style of management or wanting him to be replaced with someone else, but to suggest he’s only here for the money is utter nonsense.
He was approached multiple times before this “big tasty contract”, which still isn’t anywhere near what other managers are paid in the Championship. He was doing a good job, well respected in the game and the fans loved him - hence being rewarded accordingly.
Why twist the narrative? It’s this sort of rubbish that muddies the waters and just adds to the already toxic fan base.
Do you think he would have stayed if he'd been offered shit money? Don't be so naive.
What do you mean, what’s that got to do with anything? He was on shit money and stayed despite having offers from much richer and bigger clubs. He then got offered a contract to stay longer.
It’s a literal non-point. It offers zero insight about anything. It’s needlessly questioning the content of a mans character for the sake of it.
I know for a fact he went up and down to Birmingham a few times and got offered the job, guess what...he didn't take it
It isn't so much how we need to play in the long term but we need a reset now. For me that probably means going more direct. Then try to change it gradually as confidence improves.
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Only problem is that we will now need to identify another goat and sacrifice him.
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I very much doubt that though.
Also cashed out £100 on top 6 & lost £12.50.
I've still got other top half bets on though.
Bowyer made it clear that the contract needed to protect him in the event he were to be sacked. A real possibility at the time given the results and that he was privy to the news at that point that we were under a transfer embargo. Hence it going from a standard (BS on the spot) 5 year offer to 3 with a payout if sacked. His last contract from RD (a one year extension) was reported to be worth £400,000 (Equal to over £7,500 a week) so don't believe for a minute that the new contract will be less than that.
I was pleased Bowyer stayed and got the new protected contract from Southall etc, but don't pretend he's not on good money for a League 1 manager, the job in which he is struggling. Just because it was deemed positive then (awarded for winning 1 in 16 by the way) doesn't mean it is still positive now, it has become the obstacle it was designed to.
If Bowyer turns the ship around and gets us back performing, I'll still feel the same about his contract and reasons for it. As I will if he gets snapped up by another club.
If he can injure himself for 3 months just kicking a ball in training, do you really think he will make it to the end of season without another spell on the sidelines after competitive (I hope) games.
Matthews: culpable for 2nd goal, spoilt a decent showing
Gunter:
Oshilaja: like Bambi on ice half the time - got something in the way sometimes - positioning and reading of the game is miserable
Maatsen: no protection or help of any kind form the heinous piss taker in front of him for 70 odd minutes
Shinnie: didn't try a leg - hit one good corner and hid diligently for the rest of his wage stealing shit show - shameful
Pratley: scuppered by a fat failure of a referee
Morgan: did all Shinnie's work and more besides - then carried the can for the pisstaker's crime - Bowyer hates him with a passion- bizarre
Forster-Caskey: being a man down for 70 minutes the midfield was overrun but JFC tries his nuts off - his dead balls are still poxy tho
Stockley: looked excellent when we were playing to his prodigious strength - a good find
Schwartz: didn't get a lot of service, familiarity with JS will come with playing time
Millar: why he was held back so long is as baffling as it is unforgivable, at this level he's mustard
Watson: took over when Pratley got sawn off - given a hospital pass by Matthews for the 2nd goal
Aneke: what the actual? dawdled about, constantly on his heels, should have made simple pass to Millar for a facile tap in but shot into a forest of legs, then complained when Millar rightly bollocked him for it afterwards - measurably less use than a knackered Schwartz, dreadful.
Referee: bottled a penalty, fell for pompey's chicanery, one of the few things he got right was the added time - fat and slow
Smith's cameo he appeared tidy but little more
Our ball retention is so so poor, coupled with a useless defence and were really being exposed.
I do not question his character. I simply state he hasn't been sacked because of his contract, which I believe to be the same reason he has stayed from his choosing. He won't walk away from that potential pay out, he'd be mad to.
It's a job at the end of the day, he will leave when it most benefits him to unless fired.
Only a total looney of which you respectfully are not would think that AKEN & INNIS would not make a huge unpack to this team.
if we had had them both we would be top 4
I have no doubt.
Lee Bowyer should be given until the end of the season. as we are not going to be relegated.👍👍👍
Looks good when he does play but in the January window we should of been looking for a centre half because i can see Innis having another injury in the future. We will certainly need one if not two in the summer, just hope by then its not too late.
If you get trod on with modern boots it hurts far more than it used to.
There was clearly interest, but the only firm (likely to happen) bit of interest was Birmingham last season. This would have been on a better deal than he has now but people should factor in the possibility he is settled in Sevenoaks with kids at school.
Nobody can know whether his decision to stay was down to loyalty to his family or the club. I'm sure he has some loyalty to the club although I am not sure how much. Which is absolutely not being critical, likening him to the majority of people in his profession where loyalty doesn't work both ways (nor should it).
The question shouldn't be about loyalty anyway. It should be whether he is holding us back or not. The club should always come first.
During the interest from other clubs, he was the lowest-paid manager in the league, money was not a reason for staying. During Roland mucking about with the renewal of his contract, he could have left and been one of the hottest properties in the EFL (at the time), he didn't leave and it wasn't about his pay packet. Bowyer is already a rich man, settled at a club he cares about, with his kids in school and a home nearby. Yes, he wants to be paid fairly but so does every other human on the planet. He won't walk away from a payout, but neither would you or I.
My whole point is the money side of Bowyer is irrelevant. If you don't like him there are plenty of other angles you can dig at him for.
If Sandgaard wants to sack him, he will sack him - the payout will not be an obstacle that stops Sandgaard getting the right manager in charge.
Deji would be fine or even good alongside another proper CB I'm sure. Having to play alongside someone who is either out of position or Pearce would test much better defenders than he is. If it were either Inniss or Famewo having to try and defend in the same circumstances I doubt they would look quite so impressive.
For me personally i think the level of frustration is two or three fold. I'm frustrated that the players we signed to win games havent performed (Maddison, Watson,Gilbey, Gunter, Maatsen after the first 10 games etc), that players who we thought we could rely on seem to have stagnated or gone backwards (Mathews, Williams (before he left),Pratley, Morgan, Pearce) and thirdly as a result the constant changing of the team, which to me always breeds inconsistent results. Even the best teams, when they tinker too much, they lose performance, BUT still have the overall skill to win games. Man Utd being a great example of a team who have played shite more often than not this season but got away with it through sheer sweat or a spark of genius.
But I think that may be the issue, that our squad just isn't good enough currently to cope with the changes each week, and from every game I've watched we have been at best 50-50, but most of the time it seems playing on the edge, coming from behind or being outplayed. Is there a "best 11" really, that will win games consistently?
Aneke has the odd beast game, Stockley looks like he will be the same. Millar has been a bright spark but he doesnt strike me as a consistent performer who will pull a team through when its down to hard graft alone. So aside from JFC being consistent, but only in a steady Eddie kind of way, is anyone else performing at peak level currently?
Is it coaching, is it Covid melancholy (i do think without a crowd the Valley is like a home game to away teams), who knows? But I think LB deserves a full preseason with his squad in the summer, come back to crowds, fresh signings, a shape worked on for 4-6 weeks, and then stick with the core of his best team. If by October there is no change then I think we'll have the answer that coaching is the main issue.
I want us to go on this magic run of wins, but I just think we're too weak overall and off form more importantly, to do it.
Would be interesting to see what team/formation everyone thinks would get the best out of the team, for what it's worth (4-3-1-2);
Amos
Mathews(if he can regain form!) Innis Famewo Purrington (as I honestly dont think Maatsen can defend, sorry!)
Shinnie JFC Gilbey (if he could find any form)
Millar/DJ
Aneke Stockley
This would leave Schwartz and one of DJ/Millar on the bench, with Maatsen, Oshilaja, Maynard-Brewer, Pratley, Morgan
I'd also go more direct with hold up/knock downs giving opportunities for Millar running on, plus support from Shinnie and Gilbey.
This is probably the most I thought about it this season so last night must have been a watershed moment for me! I trust in Bowyer, but it's not unconditional.
Football fans have really short memories.