why is it different? people need to drive into the city for work, im sure they would love to drive into the city when the roads are empty but they arent. People have to make deliveries etc etc.
I dont know anyone who drives into town for the fun of it for just to get to an office everyone commutes. But for eg if Ian has a work product that is too big to carry he drives into town to show his clients - its unavoidable.
Its just another tax on the working class and further expense that adds to the fact that London is one of the most expensive cities in the world.
Its just another tax on the working class and further expense that adds to the fact that London is one of the most expensive cities in the world.[/quote]
The problem is Curb It that London (despite what many people on here seem to think) is a highly desirable city and a fantastic place to live so therefore attracts a huge amount of interest which therefore drives up prices considerably.
A recent study in The Economist showed that London has more overseas property owners than any other city in the world, that's one reason why prices and the cost of living is so high compared to other places.
One of the cheapest "major" cities in the world to live in is Karachi, why do you reckon that might be????!!!!
As stated before (and called a twat for, thanks), I'll vote for anyone but Ken, but you know he'll win...
I don't drive into town, but am bloody fed up of cyclists etc giving it the big'un over cars and car drivers...most cyclists have no regard for anyone and don't obey the rules of the road, making it unsafe for those who do as well as pedestrians near by. As for buses and trains - you try getting a young child, a push chair etc on any public transport these days and see how easy it is to get on - no matter where you are, what time of day it is and where you are going... Try getting on a bus back from Sainsburys only to be told to collapse your pushchair and hold the child plus all your shopping whilst everyone else on the bus stares at you and doesn't lend a hand. Then get it all off again in the 30 seconds you have at a bus stop.
Ken has added to the congestion with his building out of bus stops so no one can pass a stopped bus and with the rephasing of traffic lights. Put these back to normal and traffic will flow more freely, but that's not going to happen is it?
[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]why is it different? people need to drive into the city for work, im sure they would love to drive into the city when the roads are empty but they arent. People have to make deliveries etc etc.
I dont know anyone who drives into town for the fun of it for just to get to an office everyone commutes. But for eg if Ian has a work product that is too big to carry he drives into town to show his clients - its unavoidable.
Its just another tax on the working class and further expense that adds to the fact that London is one of the most expensive cities in the world.
Because road space is a finite resource in the centre of all major cities, and how you manage it is important to keeping the city going, Congestion charging is a way of doing it, and has been quite successful, London is hardly a dying city?
Late at night in the burbs isn't comparable with 8.30 at Bricklayers Arms.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]Its just another tax on the working class and further expense that adds to the fact that London is one of the most expensive cities in the world.
The problem is Curb It that London (despite what many people on here seem to think) is a highly desirable city and a fantastic place to live so therefore attracts a huge amount of interest which therefore drives up prices considerably.
A recent study in The Economist showed that London has more overseas property owners than any other city in the world, that's one reason why prices and the cost of living is so high compared to other places.
One of the cheapest "major" cities in the world to live in is Karachi, why do you reckon that might be????!!!![/quote]
well it would be nice to feel you're getting something from living in the most desirable city in the world. I lived in hong kong for 3 years back when it was second to tokyo as the most expensive city... i felt safe on the streets there 24/7. i dont in london.
To go off track and not ken's fault, further problems to most working class people getting on the property ladder is going to become increasingly harder. A one bed flat on Charlton Church Lane, (charlton church lane ffs) went on the market for 200k last week.. that is surely not sustainable. In 10 years time there will be no first time buyers able to get on the ladder and we'll all be stuck in a glut.
Fair enough, HK is a very nice spot but property prices there are also extremely high and there is NO social security system so the poverty levels in some places is appalling, especially in some parts of the NT. Your point on property prices is spot on, though. No offence to those on here from Belvedere/Erith/Gravesend but when you see ordinary houses in those areas on the market for 270,000 then you know something is badly wrong. I don't know how people afford it either but although people can blame Ken for many things they can't blame him for that one.
House prices are stupid - if we went back to the interest rates of the 80s and 90s there would surely have to be a big "correction" - which would hit hard on the many people mortgaged up to the hilt. And any attempts to make it cheaper to buy property (eg. part-ownership schemes) only drive prices up higher.
You have to make more homes available where people want them and vice-versa (ie. provide good employment in depressed areas).
and to be fair to Ken, he is insisting that on all major developments in the city that there is at least 40% social housing included in the development.
Which means when Quintain start to build round the O2, 4,000 homes will be for Social housing
[cite]Posted By: Salad[/cite]Oh and proper levels of taxation for the super rich instead of letting them blow millions on homes -pushing the prices up for everyone.
Problem with that is that they then up sticks and go somewhere more favourable and then you lose all the income gained from them.
Not ideal, or perhaps fair, but I'd rather have 5% of a billionaires income than none at all.
And lets be honest. The housing market for 7 bed places in Eaton Gdns is hardly something that concerns the average CharLifer
It all spreads out, other rich people priced out of there spend there millions in another area pushing those prices up etc. etc. It is not right when private equity people pay much lower rates of tax than their cleaning ladies.
PS 20% stamp duty on all houses over £2M say (with no loop holes) would be a start.
As Henry says, it's a shame no-one decent is up against Ken to give him a proper fight.
I'm backing Ken, mind. Lots of car drivers don't have a choice, but too many do have a choice. Living in a madly-congested capital city like this is all about compromises - the people unwilling to make those compromises for the benefit of others will clearly throw their toys out of the pram and vote for Boris or whatever.
As stated before (and called a twat for, thanks), I'll vote for anyone but Ken, but you know he'll win...
I don't drive into town, but am bloody fed up of cyclists etc giving it the big'un over cars and car drivers...most cyclists have no regard for anyone and don't obey the rules of the road, making it unsafe for those who do as well as pedestrians near by. As for buses and trains - you try getting a young child, a push chair etc on any public transport these days and see how easy it is to get on - no matter where you are, what time of day it is and where you are going... Try getting on a bus back from Sainsburys only to be told to collapse your pushchair and hold the child plus all your shopping whilst everyone else on the bus stares at you and doesn't lend a hand. Then get it all off again in the 30 seconds you have at a bus stop.
Ken has added to the congestion with his building out of bus stops so no one can pass a stopped bus and with the rephasing of traffic lights. Put these back to normal and traffic will flow more freely, but that's not going to happen is it?
................
Jeez mate you sound like an old woman complaining about the price of sugar.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]As stated before (and called a twat for, thanks), I'll vote for anyone but Ken, but you know he'll win...
I don't drive into town, but am bloody fed up of cyclists etc giving it the big'un over cars and car drivers...most cyclists have no regard for anyone and don't obey the rules of the road, making it unsafe for those who do as well as pedestrians near by. As for buses and trains - you try getting a young child, a push chair etc on any public transport these days and see how easy it is to get on - no matter where you are, what time of day it is and where you are going... Try getting on a bus back from Sainsburys only to be told to collapse your pushchair and hold the child plus all your shopping whilst everyone else on the bus stares at you and doesn't lend a hand. Then get it all off again in the 30 seconds you have at a bus stop.
Ken has added to the congestion with his building out of bus stops so no one can pass a stopped bus and with the rephasing of traffic lights. Put these back to normal and traffic will flow more freely, but that's not going to happen is it?
................
Jeez mate you sound like an old woman complaining about the price of sugar.
blackforest got it in for you charlie, poor response from him mind you, not his usual standard.
i got shouted at by a motorcyclist yesterday. My crime was to cross over in front of a stationery van, i got to the edge of the van and peered my head round the corner to see if any cyclists coming to be faced by a roaring machine who was actually on the fffing pavement so he could squeeze through... and he shouted at me!! the tosspot.
Do the super rich actually push property prices up that much, surely they operate in a different market place to the average blokie?
.............
[quote][cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]Good question Razil, I would think that it all has a knock on effect, but then I don't understand economics anyway.[/quote]
Housing prices are in effect about supply and demand, it isn't about the super-rich buying up property but about the total number of people working in and around London and the total number of houses, apartments etc that are available that cause prices to rise or fall.
Ken has also forced construction companies to build a lot of low cost housing for key workers.
But if you really want to blame someone for the lack of cheap housing or for housing becoming prohibitively expensive then you need to examine the decision taken two decades or so ago to force councils to sell off council houses to their tenants and at lower prices than their market values. The councils were then banned from spending that money on new housing, creating a short-fall in supply (especially at the lower end of the market). As demand increases and if supply stays static then you are going to get higher house prices, and they are higher for all.
So, if you want to blame someone, blame Thatcher, it was her short-term decision to sell off council housing and ban the councils from building more. You can also blame her penny pinching decision to abolish the GLC which at a stroke took away the only authority that had any input into planning and transport across London. After that the individual London Boroughs did their own thing with no-one overseeing or co-ordinating what they were doing, total madness when you consider the size of the city, the number of people who live in the City, and who commute across London Boroughs and so on. What followed was 20 years of under-investment in London transport - buses, trains and tubes and even a lack of a cross London rail network, plus alack of subsidies or incentives to use public transport which made people use cars etc to get about, so the congestion charge is a belated answer to reducing road traffic because people will always use their car out of choice rather than out of necessity only.
[cite]Posted By: DJ Davey Dave[/cite]I'd vote for Ken if only he'd make it easier for more black and Asian men and Women to become Licensed Taxi drivers.
[quote][cite]Posted By: CharltonDan[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Jeez mate you sound like an old woman complaining about the price of sugar.[/quote]
Its alright for you BFR (and Ormiston if I remember rightly) but you dont live in London and therefore are uneffected by the [i]miniscule[/i] issues.....[/quote]
Non sequitur, I lived and worked in London for many years.
Comments
I dont know anyone who drives into town for the fun of it for just to get to an office everyone commutes. But for eg if Ian has a work product that is too big to carry he drives into town to show his clients - its unavoidable.
Its just another tax on the working class and further expense that adds to the fact that London is one of the most expensive cities in the world.
The problem is Curb It that London (despite what many people on here seem to think) is a highly desirable city and a fantastic place to live so therefore attracts a huge amount of interest which therefore drives up prices considerably.
A recent study in The Economist showed that London has more overseas property owners than any other city in the world, that's one reason why prices and the cost of living is so high compared to other places.
One of the cheapest "major" cities in the world to live in is Karachi, why do you reckon that might be????!!!!
Fair point, buggered then. Perhaps in bad taste but you get the jist
... pay Ken's Congestion Charge or be buggered by Boris
Take that Ken!
I don't drive into town, but am bloody fed up of cyclists etc giving it the big'un over cars and car drivers...most cyclists have no regard for anyone and don't obey the rules of the road, making it unsafe for those who do as well as pedestrians near by. As for buses and trains - you try getting a young child, a push chair etc on any public transport these days and see how easy it is to get on - no matter where you are, what time of day it is and where you are going... Try getting on a bus back from Sainsburys only to be told to collapse your pushchair and hold the child plus all your shopping whilst everyone else on the bus stares at you and doesn't lend a hand. Then get it all off again in the 30 seconds you have at a bus stop.
Ken has added to the congestion with his building out of bus stops so no one can pass a stopped bus and with the rephasing of traffic lights. Put these back to normal and traffic will flow more freely, but that's not going to happen is it?
Because road space is a finite resource in the centre of all major cities, and how you manage it is important to keeping the city going, Congestion charging is a way of doing it, and has been quite successful, London is hardly a dying city?
Late at night in the burbs isn't comparable with 8.30 at Bricklayers Arms.
The problem is Curb It that London (despite what many people on here seem to think) is a highly desirable city and a fantastic place to live so therefore attracts a huge amount of interest which therefore drives up prices considerably.
A recent study in The Economist showed that London has more overseas property owners than any other city in the world, that's one reason why prices and the cost of living is so high compared to other places.
One of the cheapest "major" cities in the world to live in is Karachi, why do you reckon that might be????!!!![/quote]
well it would be nice to feel you're getting something from living in the most desirable city in the world. I lived in hong kong for 3 years back when it was second to tokyo as the most expensive city... i felt safe on the streets there 24/7. i dont in london.
To go off track and not ken's fault, further problems to most working class people getting on the property ladder is going to become increasingly harder. A one bed flat on Charlton Church Lane, (charlton church lane ffs) went on the market for 200k last week.. that is surely not sustainable. In 10 years time there will be no first time buyers able to get on the ladder and we'll all be stuck in a glut.
Your point on property prices is spot on, though. No offence to those on here from Belvedere/Erith/Gravesend but when you see ordinary houses in those areas on the market for 270,000 then you know something is badly wrong.
I don't know how people afford it either but although people can blame Ken for many things they can't blame him for that one.
You have to make more homes available where people want them and vice-versa (ie. provide good employment in depressed areas).
Which means when Quintain start to build round the O2, 4,000 homes will be for Social housing
A house that sells for £260k in Welling will sell for £600k plus in Wimbledon.
Problem with that is that they then up sticks and go somewhere more favourable and then you lose all the income gained from them.
Not ideal, or perhaps fair, but I'd rather have 5% of a billionaires income than none at all.
And lets be honest. The housing market for 7 bed places in Eaton Gdns is hardly something that concerns the average CharLifer
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/tax-advice/income-tax/article.html?in_article_id=421577&in_page_id=77
It is not right when private equity people pay much lower rates of tax than their cleaning ladies.
PS 20% stamp duty on all houses over £2M say (with no loop holes) would be a start.
I'm backing Ken, mind. Lots of car drivers don't have a choice, but too many do have a choice. Living in a madly-congested capital city like this is all about compromises - the people unwilling to make those compromises for the benefit of others will clearly throw their toys out of the pram and vote for Boris or whatever.
I don't drive into town, but am bloody fed up of cyclists etc giving it the big'un over cars and car drivers...most cyclists have no regard for anyone and don't obey the rules of the road, making it unsafe for those who do as well as pedestrians near by. As for buses and trains - you try getting a young child, a push chair etc on any public transport these days and see how easy it is to get on - no matter where you are, what time of day it is and where you are going... Try getting on a bus back from Sainsburys only to be told to collapse your pushchair and hold the child plus all your shopping whilst everyone else on the bus stares at you and doesn't lend a hand. Then get it all off again in the 30 seconds you have at a bus stop.
Ken has added to the congestion with his building out of bus stops so no one can pass a stopped bus and with the rephasing of traffic lights. Put these back to normal and traffic will flow more freely, but that's not going to happen is it?
................
Jeez mate you sound like an old woman complaining about the price of sugar.
blackforest got it in for you charlie, poor response from him mind you, not his usual standard.
i got shouted at by a motorcyclist yesterday. My crime was to cross over in front of a stationery van, i got to the edge of the van and peered my head round the corner to see if any cyclists coming to be faced by a roaring machine who was actually on the fffing pavement so he could squeeze through... and he shouted at me!! the tosspot.
Its alright for you BFR (and Ormiston if I remember rightly) but you dont live in London and therefore are uneffected by the miniscule issues.....
.............
[quote][cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]Good question Razil, I would think that it all has a knock on effect, but then I don't understand economics anyway.[/quote]
Housing prices are in effect about supply and demand, it isn't about the super-rich buying up property but about the total number of people working in and around London and the total number of houses, apartments etc that are available that cause prices to rise or fall.
Ken has also forced construction companies to build a lot of low cost housing for key workers.
But if you really want to blame someone for the lack of cheap housing or for housing becoming prohibitively expensive then you need to examine the decision taken two decades or so ago to force councils to sell off council houses to their tenants and at lower prices than their market values. The councils were then banned from spending that money on new housing, creating a short-fall in supply (especially at the lower end of the market). As demand increases and if supply stays static then you are going to get higher house prices, and they are higher for all.
So, if you want to blame someone, blame Thatcher, it was her short-term decision to sell off council housing and ban the councils from building more. You can also blame her penny pinching decision to abolish the GLC which at a stroke took away the only authority that had any input into planning and transport across London. After that the individual London Boroughs did their own thing with no-one overseeing or co-ordinating what they were doing, total madness when you consider the size of the city, the number of people who live in the City, and who commute across London Boroughs and so on. What followed was 20 years of under-investment in London transport - buses, trains and tubes and even a lack of a cross London rail network, plus alack of subsidies or incentives to use public transport which made people use cars etc to get about, so the congestion charge is a belated answer to reducing road traffic because people will always use their car out of choice rather than out of necessity only.
What is it they say about sarcasm DJDD?? ;-)
Its alright for you BFR (and Ormiston if I remember rightly) but you dont live in London and therefore are uneffected by the [i]miniscule[/i] issues.....[/quote]
Non sequitur, I lived and worked in London for many years.