Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
Rumours Rumours - Summer 2021 edition (Deadline Day from p814)
Comments
-
Well to keep it a rumour at least....just waiting to see if I will have a sarnie or a salad....just waiting on confirmation so the next 30 minutes are crucial...mendonca said:While on the Rumours thread, what's everybody having for lunch today?4 -
It’s alright for some, just had a cheese slice on top of the last bit of ham in the packet in a sandwich with pickle 😉EugenesAxe said:Think there’s some Wensleydale in the fridge but might just be a rumour1 -
Sounds a bit cheesy that one, also rumours are off of the menu todayEugenesAxe said:Think there’s some Wensleydale in the fridge but might just be a rumour0 -
No transfer today.2
-
Just had some pan fried Halloumi, with chopped streaky bacon, chopped vine tomatoes, cucumber and garlic mayo.
Asked Graham Parker for a rumour, but he just sang "Don't ask me questions"
1 -
Now Now...don't forget what the gaffer said yesterday, we all need to be nice to each otheraddick1956 said:
Likewise I am sure. Your criticism seems limited to forms of defecation and being startled.Bedsaddick said:
You continue to surprise me with the shite you post.addick1956 said:
If they are good enough they are old enough and you agree with that , what point am I missing.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
You missed my point completely (quelle surprise). Whatever.addick1956 said:
The owner is not the point . The class of the player is. I didn't go into the whole list through the ages. Rufus could be added for a start. Leaburn too along with several others like Solly, Grant.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
I would just point out that apart from the last 3 and Konch, all the names mentioned played in an era when clubs did not operate with a large squad with 2 players for every position.addick1956 said:
Concerning players being too young.
These players were put in the first team as 16, 17 or 18 year old. One of them managed the team recently. Another made his debut for another team at 15 and was sold to Charlton for a then reputed record for a teenager for £17,500.
Eddie Firmani 18 1951
Stuart Leary 18 1951
Brian Kinsey 19 1957 I think
Keith Peacock 18 1964
Lenny Glover 19 1962
Alan Campbell 17 1965
Paul Elliot 18 1980 (his debut was a nightmare, but after that
Paul Walsh 18 1981
Paul Konchesky 17 1996
Graham Tutt 17 1974
Joe Gomez 17 2015
Ezrri Konsa 17 2016
Anfernee Djiksteel 18 2016
There are many others . The point is all these had good careers from an early age and didn't go I the team as a stop gap. Many were defenders. None were loaned out either before the debut and few were at all and many were sold for a handsome profit or stayed years at Charlton
The maxim was, ' If you are good enough, yo are old enough '.
If Nigel goes that way at Charlton he won't be the first at this club. Perhaps it is sensible .
Barker may have gone backwards because he thinks he should be a 1st team player now 🤔
In the case of Charlton, as the owner was reluctant to ever spend any money on players, it was often a case of needs must when chucking in a promising kid.
Pele was 17 and a World Cup Winner.
George Best was 17. I suppose they wouldn't hack it today either.
Of course, as a general rule of thumb, if they are good enough they are old enough.
When I was 18 I played 2 sometimes 3 games a weekend if required when Charlton were away. I was very fit . Just not at a standard required to be professional but played against blokes 7-15 years older than me and a couple of ex professionals. By saying these guys are not fit enough as some have is not true. Not canny or synical enough maybe. I disagree with you completely. It is a forum. Not a gladiatorial ring.
By the way stick you 'quelled surprise ' where the sun doesn't shine.0 -
I remember being 18 and making my debut for Dartford away at Histon. I was playing every week for the reserves on a Saturday and their youth team on a Sunday and I was, well what I thought, fit. We lost that game and the one thing I remember more than anything else, was absolutely blowing out my arse. Professional football is another step up from that. It is absolutely new levels and something I don’t think any of us can fully understand. Being young does not mean you can keep up fitness wise with the demands of what is required.addick1956 said:
If they are good enough they are old enough and you agree with that , what point am I missing.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
You missed my point completely (quelle surprise). Whatever.addick1956 said:
The owner is not the point . The class of the player is. I didn't go into the whole list through the ages. Rufus could be added for a start. Leaburn too along with several others like Solly, Grant.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
I would just point out that apart from the last 3 and Konch, all the names mentioned played in an era when clubs did not operate with a large squad with 2 players for every position.addick1956 said:
Concerning players being too young.
These players were put in the first team as 16, 17 or 18 year old. One of them managed the team recently. Another made his debut for another team at 15 and was sold to Charlton for a then reputed record for a teenager for £17,500.
Eddie Firmani 18 1951
Stuart Leary 18 1951
Brian Kinsey 19 1957 I think
Keith Peacock 18 1964
Lenny Glover 19 1962
Alan Campbell 17 1965
Paul Elliot 18 1980 (his debut was a nightmare, but after that
Paul Walsh 18 1981
Paul Konchesky 17 1996
Graham Tutt 17 1974
Joe Gomez 17 2015
Ezrri Konsa 17 2016
Anfernee Djiksteel 18 2016
There are many others . The point is all these had good careers from an early age and didn't go I the team as a stop gap. Many were defenders. None were loaned out either before the debut and few were at all and many were sold for a handsome profit or stayed years at Charlton
The maxim was, ' If you are good enough, yo are old enough '.
If Nigel goes that way at Charlton he won't be the first at this club. Perhaps it is sensible .
Barker may have gone backwards because he thinks he should be a 1st team player now 🤔
In the case of Charlton, as the owner was reluctant to ever spend any money on players, it was often a case of needs must when chucking in a promising kid.
Pele was 17 and a World Cup Winner.
George Best was 17. I suppose they wouldn't hack it today either.
Of course, as a general rule of thumb, if they are good enough they are old enough.
When I was 18 I played 2 sometimes 3 games a weekend if required when Charlton were away. I was very fit . Just not at a standard required to be professional but played against blokes 7-15 years older than me and a couple of ex professionals. By saying these guys are not fit enough as some have is not true. Not canny or synical enough maybe. I disagree with you completely. It is a forum. Not a gladiatorial ring.
By the way stick you 'quelled surprise ' where the sun doesn't shine.18 -
It's not even (just) the physical fitness either. If you are part of the senior squad then the expectations and pressure go way up (quite rightly of course) and you are under a much brighter spotlight. Psychologically it's a massive difference especially at a club like Charlton compared to Dartford and the like.ValleyGary said:
I remember being 18 and making my debut for Dartford away at Histon. I was playing every week for the reserves on a Saturday and their youth team on a Sunday and I was, well what I thought, fit. We lost that game and the one thing I remember more than anything else, was absolutely blowing out my arse. Professional football is another step up from that. It is absolutely new levels and something I don’t think any of us can fully understand. Being young does not mean you can keep up fitness wise with the demands of what is required.addick1956 said:
If they are good enough they are old enough and you agree with that , what point am I missing.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
You missed my point completely (quelle surprise). Whatever.addick1956 said:
The owner is not the point . The class of the player is. I didn't go into the whole list through the ages. Rufus could be added for a start. Leaburn too along with several others like Solly, Grant.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
I would just point out that apart from the last 3 and Konch, all the names mentioned played in an era when clubs did not operate with a large squad with 2 players for every position.addick1956 said:
Concerning players being too young.
These players were put in the first team as 16, 17 or 18 year old. One of them managed the team recently. Another made his debut for another team at 15 and was sold to Charlton for a then reputed record for a teenager for £17,500.
Eddie Firmani 18 1951
Stuart Leary 18 1951
Brian Kinsey 19 1957 I think
Keith Peacock 18 1964
Lenny Glover 19 1962
Alan Campbell 17 1965
Paul Elliot 18 1980 (his debut was a nightmare, but after that
Paul Walsh 18 1981
Paul Konchesky 17 1996
Graham Tutt 17 1974
Joe Gomez 17 2015
Ezrri Konsa 17 2016
Anfernee Djiksteel 18 2016
There are many others . The point is all these had good careers from an early age and didn't go I the team as a stop gap. Many were defenders. None were loaned out either before the debut and few were at all and many were sold for a handsome profit or stayed years at Charlton
The maxim was, ' If you are good enough, yo are old enough '.
If Nigel goes that way at Charlton he won't be the first at this club. Perhaps it is sensible .
Barker may have gone backwards because he thinks he should be a 1st team player now 🤔
In the case of Charlton, as the owner was reluctant to ever spend any money on players, it was often a case of needs must when chucking in a promising kid.
Pele was 17 and a World Cup Winner.
George Best was 17. I suppose they wouldn't hack it today either.
Of course, as a general rule of thumb, if they are good enough they are old enough.
When I was 18 I played 2 sometimes 3 games a weekend if required when Charlton were away. I was very fit . Just not at a standard required to be professional but played against blokes 7-15 years older than me and a couple of ex professionals. By saying these guys are not fit enough as some have is not true. Not canny or synical enough maybe. I disagree with you completely. It is a forum. Not a gladiatorial ring.
By the way stick you 'quelled surprise ' where the sun doesn't shine.
Not every teenager can handle it and frankly they shouldn't have to. That's the main reason against throwing them in regularly unless we're talking an absolutely generational talent here - Gomez was notable because he had the temperament and poise well beyond his age, just as much as his ability. Expecting New Deji to be the same is incredibly unfair.7 -
See, when I dont post it all ends up being a discussion about steroids or what we are all having for lunch. Although In the background there is a spat between @addick1956 and whosoever has got his back up today.
I'll post again when we finally sign someone.
Toodle pip.16 -
I had a Thai Green Curry, with basa, shrimp and tuna. Gotta feed them gains.mendonca said:While on the Rumours thread, what's everybody having for lunch today?1 -
Sponsored links:
-
Yeah but a bloke on a forum said “if you’re good enough you’re old enough” and another remembered a 17 year old making his debut in 1973 before going on to become an England international. So why not throw Deji in as our new first choice CB?ValleyGary said:
I remember being 18 and making my debut for Dartford away at Histon. I was playing every week for the reserves on a Saturday and their youth team on a Sunday and I was, well what I thought, fit. We lost that game and the one thing I remember more than anything else, was absolutely blowing out my arse. Professional football is another step up from that. It is absolutely new levels and something I don’t think any of us can fully understand. Being young does not mean you can keep up fitness wise with the demands of what is required.addick1956 said:
If they are good enough they are old enough and you agree with that , what point am I missing.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
You missed my point completely (quelle surprise). Whatever.addick1956 said:
The owner is not the point . The class of the player is. I didn't go into the whole list through the ages. Rufus could be added for a start. Leaburn too along with several others like Solly, Grant.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
I would just point out that apart from the last 3 and Konch, all the names mentioned played in an era when clubs did not operate with a large squad with 2 players for every position.addick1956 said:
Concerning players being too young.
These players were put in the first team as 16, 17 or 18 year old. One of them managed the team recently. Another made his debut for another team at 15 and was sold to Charlton for a then reputed record for a teenager for £17,500.
Eddie Firmani 18 1951
Stuart Leary 18 1951
Brian Kinsey 19 1957 I think
Keith Peacock 18 1964
Lenny Glover 19 1962
Alan Campbell 17 1965
Paul Elliot 18 1980 (his debut was a nightmare, but after that
Paul Walsh 18 1981
Paul Konchesky 17 1996
Graham Tutt 17 1974
Joe Gomez 17 2015
Ezrri Konsa 17 2016
Anfernee Djiksteel 18 2016
There are many others . The point is all these had good careers from an early age and didn't go I the team as a stop gap. Many were defenders. None were loaned out either before the debut and few were at all and many were sold for a handsome profit or stayed years at Charlton
The maxim was, ' If you are good enough, yo are old enough '.
If Nigel goes that way at Charlton he won't be the first at this club. Perhaps it is sensible .
Barker may have gone backwards because he thinks he should be a 1st team player now 🤔
In the case of Charlton, as the owner was reluctant to ever spend any money on players, it was often a case of needs must when chucking in a promising kid.
Pele was 17 and a World Cup Winner.
George Best was 17. I suppose they wouldn't hack it today either.
Of course, as a general rule of thumb, if they are good enough they are old enough.
When I was 18 I played 2 sometimes 3 games a weekend if required when Charlton were away. I was very fit . Just not at a standard required to be professional but played against blokes 7-15 years older than me and a couple of ex professionals. By saying these guys are not fit enough as some have is not true. Not canny or synical enough maybe. I disagree with you completely. It is a forum. Not a gladiatorial ring.
By the way stick you 'quelled surprise ' where the sun doesn't shine.8 -
Bring back Golfie!2
-
Good to hear from you Golfie, as you say it's all gone tits up since you last posted...golfaddick said:See, when I dont post it all ends up being a discussion about steroids or what we are all having for lunch. Although In the background there is a spat between @addick1956 and whosoever has got his back up today.
I'll post again when we finally sign someone.
Toodle pip.
By the way, hope your lad is recovering well.
0 -
While I was at school, my sport was tennis, was fairly good, got a scholarship with the David Lloyd academy, training 10 hours every day, would play around 2/3 1 set matches each day as part of it, to the point where fitness didn’t even become a consideration.ValleyGary said:
I remember being 18 and making my debut for Dartford away at Histon. I was playing every week for the reserves on a Saturday and their youth team on a Sunday and I was, well what I thought, fit. We lost that game and the one thing I remember more than anything else, was absolutely blowing out my arse. Professional football is another step up from that. It is absolutely new levels and something I don’t think any of us can fully understand. Being young does not mean you can keep up fitness wise with the demands of what is required.addick1956 said:
If they are good enough they are old enough and you agree with that , what point am I missing.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
You missed my point completely (quelle surprise). Whatever.addick1956 said:
The owner is not the point . The class of the player is. I didn't go into the whole list through the ages. Rufus could be added for a start. Leaburn too along with several others like Solly, Grant.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
I would just point out that apart from the last 3 and Konch, all the names mentioned played in an era when clubs did not operate with a large squad with 2 players for every position.addick1956 said:
Concerning players being too young.
These players were put in the first team as 16, 17 or 18 year old. One of them managed the team recently. Another made his debut for another team at 15 and was sold to Charlton for a then reputed record for a teenager for £17,500.
Eddie Firmani 18 1951
Stuart Leary 18 1951
Brian Kinsey 19 1957 I think
Keith Peacock 18 1964
Lenny Glover 19 1962
Alan Campbell 17 1965
Paul Elliot 18 1980 (his debut was a nightmare, but after that
Paul Walsh 18 1981
Paul Konchesky 17 1996
Graham Tutt 17 1974
Joe Gomez 17 2015
Ezrri Konsa 17 2016
Anfernee Djiksteel 18 2016
There are many others . The point is all these had good careers from an early age and didn't go I the team as a stop gap. Many were defenders. None were loaned out either before the debut and few were at all and many were sold for a handsome profit or stayed years at Charlton
The maxim was, ' If you are good enough, yo are old enough '.
If Nigel goes that way at Charlton he won't be the first at this club. Perhaps it is sensible .
Barker may have gone backwards because he thinks he should be a 1st team player now 🤔
In the case of Charlton, as the owner was reluctant to ever spend any money on players, it was often a case of needs must when chucking in a promising kid.
Pele was 17 and a World Cup Winner.
George Best was 17. I suppose they wouldn't hack it today either.
Of course, as a general rule of thumb, if they are good enough they are old enough.
When I was 18 I played 2 sometimes 3 games a weekend if required when Charlton were away. I was very fit . Just not at a standard required to be professional but played against blokes 7-15 years older than me and a couple of ex professionals. By saying these guys are not fit enough as some have is not true. Not canny or synical enough maybe. I disagree with you completely. It is a forum. Not a gladiatorial ring.
By the way stick you 'quelled surprise ' where the sun doesn't shine.
sometimes when i went home weekends id go to my local club and play a couple of five setters against the club pros, one after the other, Wouldn’t feel particularly tired by the end.
Now my point is this I was young, I was ‘good enough’ I was ‘fit enough’, then one day I played a challenger event (big time for me) against a very well known player who had had some big setbacks and was fighting their way back up the rankings at the time (they succeeded btw) they beat me 1 and love, and that 1 game i got was the first game that was my serve!, in around 38 minutes; absolutely demolished me to the point that was the day I quit tennis, I knew then I didn’t have what it takes psychologically to be successful;
Theres something almost unquantifiable about a person succeeding at anything at the very top, almost like it’s something that has been decided by the universe, same for those who never quite make it, no matter how fit or young they are, how much they practice, it’s just not their time.12 -
Stu_of_Kunming said:
I had a Thai Green Curry, with basa, shrimp and tuna. Gotta feed them gains.mendonca said:While on the Rumours thread, what's everybody having for lunch today?
Alright Diego P 0 -
Ok, I'm starting to panic a bit now. Surely we'll see 1 or 2 signings this week????Gravesend_Addick said:Wouldn't say I'm panicking yet, but business is very slow for a squad that still needs another 9 or 10 players.
Expected another 3 or 4 in by now, but in Nigel Adkins & Steve Gallen we trust.0 -
This reminds me of when I was 18 and playing for the Yorkshire Grey,….stinking hangover from the night before, needed a dump on the way to sutcliffe park for the game, jumped over the fence of Eltham Green School, took said dump, wiped my arse on a football sock…turned up for the game - my warm up was me sitting on the side of the pitch with my head in my hands and vomiting every 2 mins. Game kicked off, every time I got the ball I shouted “I don’t fucking want it and just kicked it away” Half time came, one of my mates said “you need a line of this…..” second half I played out of my skin and nicked a couple of goals (my only regret was not remembering that in football you change ends at half time 😂)ValleyGary said:
I remember being 18 and making my debut for Dartford away at Histon. I was playing every week for the reserves on a Saturday and their youth team on a Sunday and I was, well what I thought, fit. We lost that game and the one thing I remember more than anything else, was absolutely blowing out my arse. Professional football is another step up from that. It is absolutely new levels and something I don’t think any of us can fully understand. Being young does not mean you can keep up fitness wise with the demands of what is required.addick1956 said:
If they are good enough they are old enough and you agree with that , what point am I missing.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
You missed my point completely (quelle surprise). Whatever.addick1956 said:
The owner is not the point . The class of the player is. I didn't go into the whole list through the ages. Rufus could be added for a start. Leaburn too along with several others like Solly, Grant.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
I would just point out that apart from the last 3 and Konch, all the names mentioned played in an era when clubs did not operate with a large squad with 2 players for every position.addick1956 said:
Concerning players being too young.
These players were put in the first team as 16, 17 or 18 year old. One of them managed the team recently. Another made his debut for another team at 15 and was sold to Charlton for a then reputed record for a teenager for £17,500.
Eddie Firmani 18 1951
Stuart Leary 18 1951
Brian Kinsey 19 1957 I think
Keith Peacock 18 1964
Lenny Glover 19 1962
Alan Campbell 17 1965
Paul Elliot 18 1980 (his debut was a nightmare, but after that
Paul Walsh 18 1981
Paul Konchesky 17 1996
Graham Tutt 17 1974
Joe Gomez 17 2015
Ezrri Konsa 17 2016
Anfernee Djiksteel 18 2016
There are many others . The point is all these had good careers from an early age and didn't go I the team as a stop gap. Many were defenders. None were loaned out either before the debut and few were at all and many were sold for a handsome profit or stayed years at Charlton
The maxim was, ' If you are good enough, yo are old enough '.
If Nigel goes that way at Charlton he won't be the first at this club. Perhaps it is sensible .
Barker may have gone backwards because he thinks he should be a 1st team player now 🤔
In the case of Charlton, as the owner was reluctant to ever spend any money on players, it was often a case of needs must when chucking in a promising kid.
Pele was 17 and a World Cup Winner.
George Best was 17. I suppose they wouldn't hack it today either.
Of course, as a general rule of thumb, if they are good enough they are old enough.
When I was 18 I played 2 sometimes 3 games a weekend if required when Charlton were away. I was very fit . Just not at a standard required to be professional but played against blokes 7-15 years older than me and a couple of ex professionals. By saying these guys are not fit enough as some have is not true. Not canny or synical enough maybe. I disagree with you completely. It is a forum. Not a gladiatorial ring.
By the way stick you 'quelled surprise ' where the sun doesn't shine.
10 -
Apparently we have given up on signings and are going to field a team of 2nd year scholars or just shut the academy.Gravesend_Addick said:
Ok, I'm starting to panic a bit now. Surely we'll see 1 or 2 signings this week????Gravesend_Addick said:Wouldn't say I'm panicking yet, but business is very slow for a squad that still needs another 9 or 10 players.
Expected another 3 or 4 in by now, but in Nigel Adkins & Steve Gallen we trust.1 -
Hoping for the best........................preparing for the worst.
I have a feeling that we are going to start the season with a squad weaker than what we finished with. Also waiting for the news that "Ronnie has looked sharp and committed in training so we feel we do not need to sign another striker"4 -
Wow that must be a record 145 posts and not a single rumour0
-
Sponsored links:
-
https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/transfer-rumours-sunderland-eyeing-audacious-striker-swoop-as-cats-sent-clear-message-over-defender-target-plus-sheffield-wednesday-portsmouth-updates-3312981
I'll pop this on here as opposed to "other rumours" because what Lee Johnson says could be pretty much, word for word, the same for us.0 -
What, so you have counted every single one!!! utter devotion to the cause that is..CH4RLTON said:Wow that must be a record 145 posts and not a single rumour0 -
From the O/S: "Kit sponsors: Charlton and Charlton Athletic Women’s kit sponsors for the 2021/22 season are set to be confirmed this week."
https://www.cafc.co.uk/news/view/60f4a3adc0a9e/key-timings-for-kit-reveal-kit-sponsor-and-ticketing?fbclid=IwAR33LBWouNB2gveUhQbghToYXIJHtdgoztXH8ZbA6USjXAVtqA6mhJfdOr4
Not a rumour but hopefully will calm a few jitters/put a plug on some of the doomsday nonsense about kit reveals or lack of sponsors.2 -
Ok, the above original let's get this started post/thread has been unsuccessful.Callumcafc said:Let’s gets this started shall we?
I'm wondering if this thread is under warranty and we can have a proper rumours thread, as this one is clearly defective.0 -
Cafc43v3r said:https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/transfer-rumours-sunderland-eyeing-audacious-striker-swoop-as-cats-sent-clear-message-over-defender-target-plus-sheffield-wednesday-portsmouth-updates-3312981
I'll pop this on here as opposed to "other rumours" because what Lee Johnson says could be pretty much, word for word, the same for us.Head coach Lee Johnson is expected to try and sign another central defender, while Charlie Wyke is yet to be replaced.
The head coach says a number of factors have created a challenging market, but insists the club's patience will be rewarded.
"We've got a bit to do, no doubt about it," he said, speaking after the pre-season win at Hearts.
"It has been a tough market and I think we've done exceptionally well with what we've done.
"You say three signings but I 100% see it as five with McGeady and O'Nien, because they were in the open market.
"But we still have a lot of work to do, we know that.
"We clearly need a left back, a right back. We have got players who can play there, but we don't want to take players away from their natural position. We know that.
It has been a tough market because you've got GBE to account for, which means foreign players that used to be available are not.
"Then you've got the Premier League purchases, if you like, from the U23s and the lads who've been out on loan. We're willing to pay fees for these players but they often come with extremely high wages and often aren't willing to take a drop.
"Then you've got the talented players from lower levels who now command higher fees because they're English, and we do the same with any of our young English players.
"The pool of players is then quite small. You've got to get the right ones and we will get them, no doubt about it."
3 -
Let's not forget that Sunderland's owner is mega rich so money isn't an issue for them.
Sunderland and ourselves are taking our own approaches to this market while Wigan and Ipswich are going around outbidding each other to build a League One All-Stars side.
Only in May will we know who got it right and who got it wrong.5 -
I forgot this is the first window without Freedom of Movement, which is mainly a restriction for EFL teams, as Premier League clubs can buy in the exempted group1
-
It’s going to be interesting to see it play out!Callumcafc said:Let's not forget that Sunderland's owner is mega rich so money isn't an issue for them.
Sunderland and ourselves are taking our own approaches to this market while Wigan and Ipswich are going around outbidding each other to build a League One All-Stars side.
Only in May will we know who got it right and who got it wrong.0 -
https://www.mills-reeve.com/stand-alone-pages/football-and-brexit-faqs-on-the-2021-fa-gbe-rules/gbe-criteria-for-senior-players
It's no wonder we haven't signed anyone, we're probably still working on the criteria for players.1
.... starting now 
This discussion has been closed.
