In a similar vein, what is a stream and what is a river and what's the difference?
A river is a natural flow of running water that follows a well-defined, permanent path, usually within a valley. A stream (also called a brook or a creek) is a natural flow of water that follows a more temporary path that is usually not in a valley.
There are streams in the Cotswolds that run in valleys and have been there for 400+ years, so I'm not sure that's the definition or the difference.
May be part of the same Urban area but Leigh on Sea is not Southend on Sea and is nearer to London. People in Leigh, and Westcliffe on Sea (also nearer to London), would not take kindly to be classified as 'Sarfend'.
Fair enough.
We can categorically say then that the Thames ends/sea starts at Leigh-On-Sea/Allhallows.
I think rivers often change their paths, ox bow lakes give a clue as does the walk to the Thames from Warren Street, you go down in stages that are previous routes of the river before it moved south, due to glaciation I think.
May be part of the same Urban area but Leigh on Sea is not Southend on Sea and is nearer to London. People in Leigh, and Westcliffe on Sea (also nearer to London), would not take kindly to be classified as 'Sarfend'.
As a lifelong resident of South East Essex, I'd say the only thing correct about this post is that Leigh is nearer to London than Southend. There isn't even a place called Westcliffe. I know loads of people in both Leigh an Westcliff who wouldn't bat an eyelid at being called Sarfend. Sure, there are a handful of Leigh snobs but they are a small minority. As for Westcliff, most Westclff residents couldn't tell you where Westcliff ends and Southend begins.
Which was my point. Leigh on Sea is closer to London than Southend on Sea is.So i misspelt Westcliff on Sea. Sorry. I was born in Essex, went to school in Shenfield and Rayleigh Essex, lived on Canvey Island and in Chelmsford and moved South of the river 30 years ago. But i am not 'a lifelong resident' so i bow to your knowledge.
The government asked the same question and decided the coast ran all the way up the Thames to the barrier. Woolwich is considered a coastal settlement.
It says The Thames ends at a line drawn between Havengore Creek on the Essex Coast and Warden Point on the Kent Coast. So, well to the east of Southend, which is therefore NOT Southend-on-Sea at all. (Although the water is still salty all the way up to Battersea.)
And who knew that the Thames was once merely a tributary of The Rhine!
In a similar vein, what is a stream and what is a river and what's the difference?
A river is a natural flow of running water that follows a well-defined, permanent path, usually within a valley. A stream (also called a brook or a creek) is a natural flow of water that follows a more temporary path that is usually not in a valley.
There are streams in the Cotswolds that run in valleys and have been there for 400+ years, so I'm not sure that's the definition or the difference.
Don't accept there is a "definition" of stream versus river.
A stream follows as permanent a path as a river and if that's the best definition it proves there isn't one.
It's entirely subjective. I fish in streams and rivers and a stream as far as I am concerned just conveys a small river of water.
If a "river" is named the River XXXXX then you would probably not call it a stream, but you might if you didn't know its name, it was small and met your personal perception of what a stream is.
If you called the River Thames at Woolwich a stream you might get a funny look, but what about one of its tributaries when it's 3 feet wide somewhere in Gloucestershire.
It's strange that in the 21st century there is no full agreement on the length or source of the Thames.
I guess the bottom line is we are trying to attach simplistic and convenient labels onto things that are on ever changing continuum. Perhaps it would be more surprising if agreement broke out.
In a similar vein, what is a stream and what is a river and what's the difference?
A river is a natural flow of running water that follows a well-defined, permanent path, usually within a valley. A stream (also called a brook or a creek) is a natural flow of water that follows a more temporary path that is usually not in a valley.
There are streams in the Cotswolds that run in valleys and have been there for 400+ years, so I'm not sure that's the definition or the difference.
Don't accept there is a "definition" of stream versus river.
A stream follows as permanent a path as a river and if that's the best definition it proves there isn't one.
It's entirely subjective. I fish in streams and rivers and a stream as far as I am concerned just conveys a small river of water.
If a "river" is named the River XXXXX then you would probably not call it a stream, but you might if you didn't know its name, it was small and met your personal perception of what a stream is.
If you called the River Thames at Woolwich a stream you might get a funny look, but what about one of its tributaries when it's 3 feet wide somewhere in Gloucestershire.
I agree - steams / rivers are all the same thing. Linguistically we call larger waterways rivers and smaller ones streams, but I don’t think there’s a true definition for either which differentiates them in any scientific way.
It says The Thames ends at a line drawn between Havengore Creek on the Essex Coast and Warden Point on the Kent Coast. So, well to the east of Southend, which is therefore NOT Southend-on-Sea at all. (Although the water is still salty all the way up to Battersea.)
And who knew that the Thames was once merely a tributary of The Rhine!
That is interesting. Means that Minster-On-Sea isn't on sea, but Leysdown-on-Sea is, and as you say, Southend has been living a lie for centuries.
To my eyes, that line from Haveringore to Warden Point doesn't look right. I've no knowledge of these matters, but if I was to draw a line on a map, intuitively I'd pick two places with a sharper angle. Perhaps Sheerness to Shoeburyness or something like that.
To my eyes, that line from Haveringore to Warden Point doesn't look right. I've no knowledge of these matters, but if I was to draw a line on a map, intuitively I'd pick two places with a sharper angle. Perhaps Sheerness to Shoeburyness or something like that.
Only guessing but is it anything to do with the points where there is an absence of any measurable river flow past the beach at low tide.
It says The Thames ends at a line drawn between Havengore Creek on the Essex Coast and Warden Point on the Kent Coast. So, well to the east of Southend, which is therefore NOT Southend-on-Sea at all. (Although the water is still salty all the way up to Battersea.)
And who knew that the Thames was once merely a tributary of The Rhine!
That is interesting. Means that Minster-On-Sea isn't on sea, but Leysdown-on-Sea is, and as you say, Southend has been living a lie for centuries.
Can you remove that horrible black line it’s spoiling my view from the cliff tops in Minster on sea 👍
Every summer in the 50s/60s while on holiday in Leysdown we went for a walk along the beach to Warden Point, past the WW2 pill box and on to Eastchurch passing the Gay Companions Caravan Site (I wonder when they decided it was time to change its name). Also passing Warden Manor with the mural of the three witches and the poem on the wall and the ruins of Shurland Hall. We returned to Leysdown on the open top bus. Each year the cliffs eroded more and it must be some years since such a walk was possible. A case of 'in sea' rather than 'on sea'
It says The Thames ends at a line drawn between Havengore Creek on the Essex Coast and Warden Point on the Kent Coast. So, well to the east of Southend, which is therefore NOT Southend-on-Sea at all. (Although the water is still salty all the way up to Battersea.)
And who knew that the Thames was once merely a tributary of The Rhine!
NEVER......The Rhine was a tributary of The Thames......and don’t you forget it.🇬🇧
Comments
We can categorically say then that the Thames ends/sea starts at Leigh-On-Sea/Allhallows.
It says The Thames ends at a line drawn between Havengore Creek on the Essex Coast and Warden Point on the Kent Coast. So, well to the east of Southend, which is therefore NOT Southend-on-Sea at all. (Although the water is still salty all the way up to Battersea.)
And who knew that the Thames was once merely a tributary of The Rhine!
A stream follows as permanent a path as a river and if that's the best definition it proves there isn't one.
It's entirely subjective. I fish in streams and rivers and a stream as far as I am concerned just conveys a small river of water.
If a "river" is named the River XXXXX then you would probably not call it a stream, but you might if you didn't know its name, it was small and met your personal perception of what a stream is.
If you called the River Thames at Woolwich a stream you might get a funny look, but what about one of its tributaries when it's 3 feet wide somewhere in Gloucestershire.