Don’t know why we’re worried personally. He’s a decent midfielder, but not irreplaceable. if he goes he goes. All I’m interested in is staying up, and Dobson being a good pro to the end of his contract. He certainly seems to be doing that.
Don’t know why we’re worried personally. He’s a decent midfielder, but not irreplaceable. if he goes he goes. All I’m interested in is staying up, and Dobson being a good pro to the end of his contract. He certainly seems to be doing that.
Certainly under Jones I'm a lot less worried about Dobson leaving than I would've been prior. If you look at how much the energy levels and general effort have gone up, its not like we're relying on Dobson to provide any momentum like we were before.
Dobson is maybe a bit underrated by some for the range of passing he's capable of but Coventry looks to be at least equal and maybe even better (or more consistent) there.
He's done a good job and I will be sad to see him go but it's not catastrophic and if we can find a CM equivalent to Small that Jones can work with I doubt we'll miss Dobson much on the actual field of play.
There are hundreds if not thousands of transfers that happen via pre-contract agreements every summer. I have never seen one fail.
Well that is interesting, but with all due respect I think you need to give us some insight into how you are getting to see them.
And then the detail, like, are most of them signed several months ahead like this one?
Actually I can think of one involving Charlton. A very notorious one. Joe Gomez.
I follow a broad range of different clubs and leagues, that's how. They usually get announced a decent chunk in advance. Aaron Ramsey for example signed his in February before moving from Arsenal to Juventus. Speaking of the present a few Scottish teams have made the most of being a different country and have signed players with pre contracts from English teams, most notably Rangers are signing someone from Norwich.
Joe Gomez wasn't a pre-contract agreement, he was bought for a fee which is very different.
Ok fair enough, I wasn’t aware of the extent of such pre- agreed transfers, which I suppose must be backed by some documentation. I was aware of transfers where the player is loaned back to his existing club for the rest of the season.
Sure Gomez went for a fee. The thing was, it wasn’t a great fee, and it was rather odd that there was no apparent rival to Liverpool for his signing. A Lifer later reported meeting his agent who boasted that he had agreed a deal with the brilliant Katrien Meire in advance. Nobody called it that at the time but I guess it was a pre-contract.
Sorry to pick you up Prague but it wasn’t a pre-contract and I think this might be why you’re struggling to grasp the concept of them. Liverpool and Charlton agreed a fee, no matter how murky that’s a standard transfer even when agreed in advance.
A pre-contract is purely between player and club. We tend not to see them at Charltons level because we aren’t recruiting from outside of the Football League so we can’t utilise them. They’re very common in smaller European leagues (like Scotland, Hungary etc.) and for big name transfers, for example Mbappe will probably sign one for Real Madrid in the coming months.
No need to apologise, you make a number of helpful points which I hadnt grasped. I understand now why the Gomez deal was different, although I would still say it wasn’t standard. The agent apparently said that Liverpool had first refusal to table a deal and Charlton could not entertain other offers. I’m less sure whether the fee itself was pre-agreed ( it’s horrible how long ago that was) but Meire had stuffed us because there was no chance of other clubs forcing up the price.
Wasn't the story that Gomez could have left at the end of his contract, but wanted us to get some compensation so signed a new contract with a relatively low release fee built into it that Liverpool found out about/the agent engineered?
I recall such a story, but not about the Gomez deal. Can’t recall who else it might have been though. People said Darren Bent behaved well towards us when it was clear he’d go, but it was a different scenario, he wasnt going to be a free agent.
@killerandflash sure, I know trigger clauses exist, but in this case the agent was boasting that he’d stitched it all up for Liverpool. You’d also imagine that any sensible clause like that would at least give the selling club a period of time to see if another similar club wanted to come in and raise the offer. But then, it was Meire. Anyway, whatever, its history and this lot (well, Methven) say they will look to only sell young talent at the right time to get the max. fee.
There are hundreds if not thousands of transfers that happen via pre-contract agreements every summer. I have never seen one fail.
Well that is interesting, but with all due respect I think you need to give us some insight into how you are getting to see them.
And then the detail, like, are most of them signed several months ahead like this one?
Actually I can think of one involving Charlton. A very notorious one. Joe Gomez.
I follow a broad range of different clubs and leagues, that's how. They usually get announced a decent chunk in advance. Aaron Ramsey for example signed his in February before moving from Arsenal to Juventus. Speaking of the present a few Scottish teams have made the most of being a different country and have signed players with pre contracts from English teams, most notably Rangers are signing someone from Norwich.
Joe Gomez wasn't a pre-contract agreement, he was bought for a fee which is very different.
Ok fair enough, I wasn’t aware of the extent of such pre- agreed transfers, which I suppose must be backed by some documentation. I was aware of transfers where the player is loaned back to his existing club for the rest of the season.
Sure Gomez went for a fee. The thing was, it wasn’t a great fee, and it was rather odd that there was no apparent rival to Liverpool for his signing. A Lifer later reported meeting his agent who boasted that he had agreed a deal with the brilliant Katrien Meire in advance. Nobody called it that at the time but I guess it was a pre-contract.
Sorry to pick you up Prague but it wasn’t a pre-contract and I think this might be why you’re struggling to grasp the concept of them. Liverpool and Charlton agreed a fee, no matter how murky that’s a standard transfer even when agreed in advance.
A pre-contract is purely between player and club. We tend not to see them at Charltons level because we aren’t recruiting from outside of the Football League so we can’t utilise them. They’re very common in smaller European leagues (like Scotland, Hungary etc.) and for big name transfers, for example Mbappe will probably sign one for Real Madrid in the coming months.
No need to apologise, you make a number of helpful points which I hadnt grasped. I understand now why the Gomez deal was different, although I would still say it wasn’t standard. The agent apparently said that Liverpool had first refusal to table a deal and Charlton could not entertain other offers. I’m less sure whether the fee itself was pre-agreed ( it’s horrible how long ago that was) but Meire had stuffed us because there was no chance of other clubs forcing up the price.
Wasn't the story that Gomez could have left at the end of his contract, but wanted us to get some compensation so signed a new contract with a relatively low release fee built into it that Liverpool found out about/the agent engineered?
I recall such a story, but not about the Gomez deal. Can’t recall who else it might have been though. People said Darren Bent behaved well towards us when it was clear he’d go, but it was a different scenario, he wasnt going to be a free agent.
@killerandflash sure, I know trigger clauses exist, but in this case the agent was boasting that he’d stitched it all up for Liverpool. You’d also imagine that any sensible clause like that would at least give the selling club a period of time to see if another similar club wanted to come in and raise the offer. But then, it was Meire. Anyway, whatever, its history and this lot (well, Methven) say they will look to only sell young talent at the right time to get the max. fee.
What would be the point in waiting for another offer? If Gomez was set on Liverpool someone else could offer £100m, he could still sign for Liverpool.
There are hundreds if not thousands of transfers that happen via pre-contract agreements every summer. I have never seen one fail.
Well that is interesting, but with all due respect I think you need to give us some insight into how you are getting to see them.
And then the detail, like, are most of them signed several months ahead like this one?
Actually I can think of one involving Charlton. A very notorious one. Joe Gomez.
I follow a broad range of different clubs and leagues, that's how. They usually get announced a decent chunk in advance. Aaron Ramsey for example signed his in February before moving from Arsenal to Juventus. Speaking of the present a few Scottish teams have made the most of being a different country and have signed players with pre contracts from English teams, most notably Rangers are signing someone from Norwich.
Joe Gomez wasn't a pre-contract agreement, he was bought for a fee which is very different.
Ok fair enough, I wasn’t aware of the extent of such pre- agreed transfers, which I suppose must be backed by some documentation. I was aware of transfers where the player is loaned back to his existing club for the rest of the season.
Sure Gomez went for a fee. The thing was, it wasn’t a great fee, and it was rather odd that there was no apparent rival to Liverpool for his signing. A Lifer later reported meeting his agent who boasted that he had agreed a deal with the brilliant Katrien Meire in advance. Nobody called it that at the time but I guess it was a pre-contract.
Sorry to pick you up Prague but it wasn’t a pre-contract and I think this might be why you’re struggling to grasp the concept of them. Liverpool and Charlton agreed a fee, no matter how murky that’s a standard transfer even when agreed in advance.
A pre-contract is purely between player and club. We tend not to see them at Charltons level because we aren’t recruiting from outside of the Football League so we can’t utilise them. They’re very common in smaller European leagues (like Scotland, Hungary etc.) and for big name transfers, for example Mbappe will probably sign one for Real Madrid in the coming months.
No need to apologise, you make a number of helpful points which I hadnt grasped. I understand now why the Gomez deal was different, although I would still say it wasn’t standard. The agent apparently said that Liverpool had first refusal to table a deal and Charlton could not entertain other offers. I’m less sure whether the fee itself was pre-agreed ( it’s horrible how long ago that was) but Meire had stuffed us because there was no chance of other clubs forcing up the price.
Wasn't the story that Gomez could have left at the end of his contract, but wanted us to get some compensation so signed a new contract with a relatively low release fee built into it that Liverpool found out about/the agent engineered?
I recall such a story, but not about the Gomez deal. Can’t recall who else it might have been though. People said Darren Bent behaved well towards us when it was clear he’d go, but it was a different scenario, he wasnt going to be a free agent.
@killerandflash sure, I know trigger clauses exist, but in this case the agent was boasting that he’d stitched it all up for Liverpool. You’d also imagine that any sensible clause like that would at least give the selling club a period of time to see if another similar club wanted to come in and raise the offer. But then, it was Meire. Anyway, whatever, its history and this lot (well, Methven) say they will look to only sell young talent at the right time to get the max. fee.
Slightly off topic but only slightly; A question which hit me earlier; (not saying this would happen, but since we are talking about players changing their minds)
If CBT has (or appears to be having) a torrid time in Derby at the moment, and decided at the end of the season (perhaps based on how he is being used) that he would like to come back - technically would there be anything stopping him since he is "technically" on loan? Say Derby stay in L1 in the end this year and he sees what Jones is building here? I assume he has not been allowed to sign a pre-contract agreement since it is between clubs in this country - Theoretically could he not just refuse a contract offer from Derby and accept an offer elsewhere?
Slightly off topic but only slightly; A question which hit me earlier; (not saying this would happen, but since we are talking about players changing their minds)
If CBT has (or appears to be having) a torrid time in Derby at the moment, and decided at the end of the season (perhaps based on how he is being used) that he would like to come back - technically would there be anything stopping him since he is "technically" on loan? Say Derby stay in L1 in the end this year and he sees what Jones is building here? I assume he has not been allowed to sign a pre-contract agreement since it is between clubs in this country - Theoretically could he not just refuse a contract offer from Derby and accept an offer elsewhere?
Thats an interesting question especially as we learn that NJ is looking to sign an orthodox winger (LuaLua) as a free agent.
Slightly off topic but only slightly; A question which hit me earlier; (not saying this would happen, but since we are talking about players changing their minds)
If CBT has (or appears to be having) a torrid time in Derby at the moment, and decided at the end of the season (perhaps based on how he is being used) that he would like to come back - technically would there be anything stopping him since he is "technically" on loan? Say Derby stay in L1 in the end this year and he sees what Jones is building here? I assume he has not been allowed to sign a pre-contract agreement since it is between clubs in this country - Theoretically could he not just refuse a contract offer from Derby and accept an offer elsewhere?
Thats an interesting question especially as we learn that NJ is looking to sign an orthodox winger (LuaLua) as a free agent.
and also "technically" don't we retain the ability to negotiate with him since he is still under contract with us til July and it wouldn't be breaking any "tapping up" rules?
I only say this as a thought excercise; But personally it would be funny if Derby had tried to cheat the FFP (or was it embargo?) rules and it came back to bite them by CBT deciding to stay with us in the end on a technicality
Fairly certain Derby have an obligatory purchase on CBT but agree with Mendonca the terms of the contract are what will give us a definite answer.
without wanting to derail the thread further, what makes an "obligatory fee purchase" different from a pre-contract agreement? its a loan fee isn't it? Like what we are paying for Camara? We paid for his services until the end of the season - didn't Derby do that as well? Lots of comments about the possibility that Dobbo/the club could potentially "buy" their way out of it even though a contract has been signed - CBT is prohibited to sign ANY contract in this country until his contract is up? Am I just being dense?
I guess with both players as I mentioned before, if Dobson now decides he wants to stay after all, the Hungarians aren't going to want to be saddled with a player on a 3 year contract who doesn't want to be there and also draining there wage bill.
The same could be said for CBT as Manic says if he has a change of heart even if unlikely, Derby aren't going to want to be saddled with the wages of a player who won't want to be there either just like we don't want to be saddled with Aneke's contract.
Guess both players could potentially return if the club were to agree compensation with the Hungarians and a deal with Derby but I would imagine the key would be whether the players would want to actually stay after all, we don't know that they actually want to and whether Jones would want them either.
I guess with both players as I mentioned before, if Dobson now decides he wants to stay after all, the Hungarians aren't going to want to be saddled with a player on a 3 year contract who doesn't want to be there and also draining there wage bill.
The same could be said for CBT as Manic says if he has a change of heart even if unlikely, Derby aren't going to want to be saddled with the wages of a player who won't want to be there either just like we don't want to be saddled with Aneke's contract.
Guess both players could potentially return if the club were to agree compensation with the Hungarians and a deal with Derby but I would imagine the key would be whether the players would want to actually stay after all, we don't know that they actually want to.
Agree with what you are saying Martin, my point is there is a slight difference - if a loan was agreed, CBT can only legally agree to that - he can't sign anything pre-contract with another team in this country - Dobbo (seemingly) has signed a deal abroad - my question is why do people assume CBT is bound by this deal to go to Derby on July 1st but Dobbo might not be to go to Hungary?
Wouldn't want CBT back anyway. He plays for himself imo. Zero defensive work at all. Jones wants the team playing as a unit, not individuals doing their own thing.
Fairly certain Derby have an obligatory purchase on CBT but agree with Mendonca the terms of the contract are what will give us a definite answer.
without wanting to derail the thread further, what makes an "obligatory fee purchase" different from a pre-contract agreement? its a loan fee isn't it? Like what we are paying for Camara? We paid for his services until the end of the season - didn't Derby do that as well? Lots of comments about the possibility that Dobbo/the club could potentially "buy" their way out of it even though a contract has been signed - CBT is prohibited to sign ANY contract in this country until his contract is up? Am I just being dense?
Obligatory purchase means the club have to buy the buyer before the end of the loan. Derby might have the option to sign him for X during the loan spell.
In terms of a contract, CBT is free to sign for anyone from 1st July if we allowed it which i imagine we did under the terms of the loan deal.
Think it’s important to remember this is a loan deal because of certain restrictions that prohibited Derby from buying him outright, it’s not a loan deal in the general sense.
If the contract is legally binding I think George is going to be gutted with himself for signing it. He has dragged this club through one of our worst footballing periods and is now leaving just as we seem to be entering a real new era of positivity under Nathan Jones.
If the contract is legally binding I think George is going to be gutted with himself for signing it. He has dragged this club through one of our worst footballing periods and is now leaving just as we seem to be entering a real new era of positivity under Nathan Jones.
Sadly it’s all his own fault, let his emotions get the better of him.
This could be my dad pulling my leg, but he's not too clued up with current Charlton gossip so there may be some legs. Who doesn't love a good story/gossip anyway...
My old man said his mate took Dobbo in his taxi last week. Picked him up from Essex, saw the Charlton tracksuit and asked Dobbo if he was in the academy lol. He told the cabbie was the Charlton captain. When asked about how it's going he's said things are looking up and is impressed with the ambition of the club currently. Said he wants to stay going forward looking to fight for promotion next year.
Quality story and thanks for passing it on.
I believed it until the "fight for promotion"; fight for mid table, then I believe, hook, line and sinker.
Not sure I should share this, but I have a mate who is an employment lawyer.
He is not a football fan, but told me a young chap called "Dobbo" entered his legal practice with an interesting predicament.
Apparently Dobbo had signed a pre-contract with an obscure Hungarian football team - but now wants to renege on it.
Dobbo is keen to stay with his current employer - as he believes "they are really going places" and also because "SE London is nicer than Hungary".
When my friend looked at the pre-contract, he noted that it was "not worth the paper it was written on" - and is absolutely not binding according to English Law. Apparently English Law is FAR superior to Hungarian Law in every conceivable way.
As said, my friend does not know much about football - but is a very able (and real) expert in employment law.
Make of that what you will.
Another quality post on CL 👏 "Mate "stories are so funny 😂
If the contract is legally binding I think George is going to be gutted with himself for signing it. He has dragged this club through one of our worst footballing periods and is now leaving just as we seem to be entering a real new era of positivity under Nathan Jones.
Sadly it’s all his own fault, let his emotions get the better of him.
Mitigation:
George Dobson has been the heart and soul of this team since he established himself in the team. 100% player who was a bit cavalier at times but he left it all on the pitch even when team mates didn't.
George was disappointed with the offer on the table as he felt he should've parity with the higher earners at the club. This was pre contract and pre Jones and of course Dobson would let his emotions affect him as football and the see-saw of highs and lows and getting an improved contract are paramount in the short career of pro footballers
When the left field offer from Hungary came in George, his wife/partner and agent decided it was a good move to get away from the losing mentality at Cafc and take the best offer on the table ( only one ?)
Without paying compensation of an X figure, this pre contract must be valid.
If the contract is legally binding I think George is going to be gutted with himself for signing it. He has dragged this club through one of our worst footballing periods and is now leaving just as we seem to be entering a real new era of positivity under Nathan Jones.
Sadly it’s all his own fault, let his emotions get the better of him.
He let his agent get the better of him. A decent agent had enough of a story to work with to get Dobson a better deal with a better English club ( “better” from the POV of the state of Charlton as the window opened). I wouldn’t be surprised at all to learn that there’s a Hungarian drink in it for this agent, and it isn’t Unicum. See Josh Maya to Bordeaux and his agent for reference.
2024's version of Jose Semedo, new manager came in and wanted to keep him but he left, and hopefully the club gets a significant upgrade in the summer like we did back then
If the contract is legally binding I think George is going to be gutted with himself for signing it. He has dragged this club through one of our worst footballing periods and is now leaving just as we seem to be entering a real new era of positivity under Nathan Jones.
Sadly it’s all his own fault, let his emotions get the better of him.
Disagree.
Hindsight is wonderful and it was made clear to him by non-footballing people at the club they didn’t see him as first choice moving forwards. At the same time Michael Appleton was taking us straight to League 2 and had been publicly backed at a fan Q&A by the board.
He could have waited until June and signed for anyone, he felt he was being forced out and the plan from the club was to get a fee.
I don’t think anyone could have foreseen that NJ would be appointed, yet alone be allowed to overrule Andy Scott on our transfer plans and player policy.
Whilst I don’t think he’s entirely blameless, he is definitely a victim of how much of a shambles our club was less than one month ago.
It’s a shame for both Charlton and Dobson, don’t think either of us actually benefit. A sorry way to end his time with us after being one of the better players in a very bad period.
Leaving aside the legal ramifications……one has to say that George may well live to regret his decision to have signed anything whatsoever. True…he couldn’t have foreseen the upturn in our form/position and the way things are ‘possibly’ shaping up for next season. I know of a few guys who are standing by to put a few quid on us….I think George may well have shot himself in the foot……I also think his agent must be held responsible to some extent.
Comments
He’s a decent midfielder, but not irreplaceable.
if he goes he goes.
All I’m interested in is staying up, and Dobson being a good pro to the end of his contract. He certainly seems to be doing that.
Dobson is maybe a bit underrated by some for the range of passing he's capable of but Coventry looks to be at least equal and maybe even better (or more consistent) there.
He's done a good job and I will be sad to see him go but it's not catastrophic and if we can find a CM equivalent to Small that Jones can work with I doubt we'll miss Dobson much on the actual field of play.
@killerandflash sure, I know trigger clauses exist, but in this case the agent was boasting that he’d stitched it all up for Liverpool. You’d also imagine that any sensible clause like that would at least give the selling club a period of time to see if another similar club wanted to come in and raise the offer. But then, it was Meire. Anyway, whatever, its history and this lot (well, Methven) say they will look to only sell young talent at the right time to get the max. fee.
If CBT has (or appears to be having) a torrid time in Derby at the moment, and decided at the end of the season (perhaps based on how he is being used) that he would like to come back - technically would there be anything stopping him since he is "technically" on loan? Say Derby stay in L1 in the end this year and he sees what Jones is building here? I assume he has not been allowed to sign a pre-contract agreement since it is between clubs in this country - Theoretically could he not just refuse a contract offer from Derby and accept an offer elsewhere?
I only say this as a thought excercise; But personally it would be funny if Derby had tried to cheat the FFP (or was it embargo?) rules and it came back to bite them by CBT deciding to stay with us in the end on a technicality
The same could be said for CBT as Manic says if he has a change of heart even if unlikely, Derby aren't going to want to be saddled with the wages of a player who won't want to be there either just like we don't want to be saddled with Aneke's contract.
Guess both players could potentially return if the club were to agree compensation with the Hungarians and a deal with Derby but I would imagine the key would be whether the players would want to actually stay after all, we don't know that they actually want to and whether Jones would want them either.
Quality story and thanks for passing it on.
I believed it until the "fight for promotion";
fight for mid table, then I believe, hook, line and sinker.
Another quality post on CL 👏
"Mate "stories are so funny 😂
Your "friend" sounds like a Charlton fan/critic 😃
Mitigation:
George Dobson has been the heart and soul of this team since he established himself in the team.
100% player who was a bit cavalier at times but he left it all on the pitch even when team mates didn't.
George was disappointed with the offer on the table as he felt he should've parity with the higher earners at the club. This was pre contract and pre Jones and of course Dobson would let his emotions affect him as football and the see-saw of highs and lows and getting an improved contract are paramount in the short career of pro footballers
When the left field offer from Hungary came in George, his wife/partner and agent decided it was a good move to get away from the losing mentality at Cafc and take the best offer on the table ( only one ?)
Without paying compensation of an X figure, this pre contract must be valid.
Hindsight is wonderful and it was made clear to him by non-footballing people at the club they didn’t see him as first choice moving forwards. At the same time Michael Appleton was taking us straight to League 2 and had been publicly backed at a fan Q&A by the board.
He could have waited until June and signed for anyone, he felt he was being forced out and the plan from the club was to get a fee.
I don’t think anyone could have foreseen that NJ would be appointed, yet alone be allowed to overrule Andy Scott on our transfer plans and player policy.
Whilst I don’t think he’s entirely blameless, he is definitely a victim of how much of a shambles our club was less than one month ago.
True…he couldn’t have foreseen the upturn in our form/position and the way things are ‘possibly’ shaping up for next season.
I know of a few guys who are standing by to put a few quid on us….I think George may well have shot himself in the foot……I also think his agent must be held responsible to some extent.
He doesn't seem like an unapproachable sort of a bloke, so I don't understand why the fan base is having to resort to page after page of speculation.
Terry, Olly, Cawley, or one of the other media people people associated with the club, could simply ask him for an update.
If he doesn't want to talk about it, that's his perogative, but it would be nice to let the supporters know.