Nige has our starting front 3 and back 4 the same as what ended last season (minus maatsen). Yet so far we can't and don't look like scoring and apparently, defensively fragile.
So, what's changed... The part in the middle.
Were Pratley and Watson really that good? JFC who had a stop start season?
As we saw last season the pratson midfield was dire, on paper, Dobson, Clare and Morgan should be better - younger, fitter, more energy, some footballing ability, but, it's just not working yet, it's still pretty early but the signs aren't great, Gilbey returning will help but we need at least one more to come in someone who can calmly pass the ball and move it around.
It's all well and good having an energetic midfield, but, if they can't play football very well...then, well, yeah....
We don't seem to have anyone in the midfield three that can pick the ball up and run with it. We need someone who can take the game by the scruff of the neck.
Best thread on this site at the moment. Plain as the nose on your face, the midfield three would not start in any of the top ten sides in this division. One goal from open play in three games, three goals conceded, caused by Ablie, twice, and Dobson last night. With the signing of the Kirk and the performance of Elerewe last night, at least two players or perhaps three are needed.
I find it weird , we've spent probably over a million on the front three , but neglected to sign anyone to supply them. We've known for ages we wouldn't have JFC or Gilbey to start the season and haven't addressed the elephant in the room.
We don't seem to have anyone in the midfield three that can pick the ball up and run with it. We need someone who can take the game by the scruff of the neck.
Last season we often had the out ball to Millar who could get us up the pitch quickly.
I think there is a player in Dobson, Morgan is playing in the wrong role and Clare has looked OK in patches. But collectively, across the 3 games they have been no where near good enough. I thought all 3 looked quite good as a unit in preseason but they are currently making Watson, JFC and Gilbey look like Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets.
The most worrying thing about it is Watson is our only other half fit CM so "it is what it is".
I don't think it's a relegation midfield, in its self, although it could be once injuries and suspensions kick in. It's certainly not a promotion chasing one.
and for those who said Jonny Williams isn't good enough....how's them apples?
He isn't good enough, the guy is made of glass. There's a reason why we and 23 other league one clubs didn't want him.
He's obviously a really nice guy and everyone likes him, which i think is why fans cut him some slack. But ultimately he's not a player you could really rely on.
Dobson - not wanted by Sunderland, spent the second half of last season on loan at Wimbledon. 5 goals in 165 games in English football, although he is a holding midfielder. Clare - not wanted in a midfield position by Oxford, spent the second half of last season on loan at Burton. 4 goals in 88 games in his English football career. Morgan - has always showed promise but ultimately in my opinion has never really kicked on. Would be ok as a squad player but certainly isn't good enough to be our number 10. 2 goals in 76 games for Charlton.
So a midfield trio with a grand total of 11 goals in 329 games.
On average, a goal every 30 games. Which means if they continue to play together as a trio we could expect one of them to score a goal every 10 games.
And that folks is what we're hanging our hopes on.
I totally agree but isn't it every 30+ games rather than 10? Which is what you said initially.
Dobson - not wanted by Sunderland, spent the second half of last season on loan at Wimbledon. 5 goals in 165 games in English football, although he is a holding midfielder. Clare - not wanted in a midfield position by Oxford, spent the second half of last season on loan at Burton. 4 goals in 88 games in his English football career. Morgan - has always showed promise but ultimately in my opinion has never really kicked on. Would be ok as a squad player but certainly isn't good enough to be our number 10. 2 goals in 76 games for Charlton.
So a midfield trio with a grand total of 11 goals in 329 games.
On average, a goal every 30 games. Which means if they continue to play together as a trio we could expect one of them to score a goal every 10 games.
And that folks is what we're hanging our hopes on.
I totally agree but isn't it every 30+ games rather than 10?
30 appearances, so if the 3 of them are playing as a trio it'd be 10 actual games.
I wouldn't have Pratley back, there's nothing he would have done that would have made the start of the season any different.
Shinnie on the other hand would have given us someone with the ability to hold onto the ball in the middle of the park, especially in tight situations, and bring other players into play. I feel like players like Clare, who has shown he can make good runs off the ball, would benifit with a player like Shinnie around them.
I agree about Shinnie 100%, but maybe I’ll ask you about Pratley again once Innis and Famewo are injured and Watson suspended
Bit premature this, isn't it? I mean, they haven't started brilliantly and maybe they will never get there, but it's been 3 and 4 games for these players in a new team. In 18/19 we won 1 of our first 5 games, and people would do well to remember that Bielik didn't always look up to much when he started, including getting hauled off at half time in October for a pretty shoddy performance at the base of midfield. Cullen also took a little while to start to properly show what he was about. That was mostly covered by the fact that we had Taylor and Grant scoring a lot of goals allowing players a bit of time to settle in. We've started badly all over so we don't have the luxury of wins covering adaptation time, but a relegation midfield? Off a few appearances? Surely we have to give players, especially fairly young players, a bit of time before we completely write them off and start begging for new players in. I do have to admit I'm disappointed with Albie though, I'd really hoped starting the season with the extra responsibility would drive some of the inconsistency out of his game but he looks the same player as before so far. We definitely need to get some players in as competition for what we have, but can we please not write off new signings completely after 3 league games? Surely we're better than that?
Fingers crossed for a creative midfielder coming in to take a bit of pressure off this midfield and allowing them to build a bit more rather than constantly chase around after long balls
We are missing the impetus of loan signings. Over the years we've had the likes of Gallagher, Cullen, Bielik, Da Silva etc. which have helped improve the team. The midfielders of those, particularly helped our passing game. We could really do with signing a few loanees, and quick.
From what I have seen so far they all look like squad players rather than first teamers. Doesn't mean that one, two or all three can't come good as they are young but realistically we need something different in there soon or we continue to struggle in the shirt term.
The thread is about the midfield 3. If you want to continue discussing DJ our best player on the night start another thread please.
So, take a look at their first goal. Clare loses a header and then Morgan & Dobson both go for the same ball and neither get it.
Second goal Clare lost a header once again from the free kick.
(Inniss is then outpaced and the goalie is out of position, absolute shambles, but it started with the midfield 3). In fairness Morgan put in a delightful cross for our goal.
No it's not, it's about our midfield and DJ is a midfielder! He should be playing in our midfield as a winger.
Ah, the old ‘W’ formation eh, pies at half time, peanut sellers on the terraces, Chris Duffy terrorising fullbacks, inside forwards dropping back into midfield.
It’s a bit like that now, with Stockley and two wingers up top, with Morgan and Clare in support.
The thread is about the midfield 3. If you want to continue discussing DJ our best player on the night start another thread please.
So, take a look at their first goal. Clare loses a header and then Morgan & Dobson both go for the same ball and neither get it.
Second goal Clare lost a header once again from the free kick.
(Inniss is then outpaced and the goalie is out of position, absolute shambles, but it started with the midfield 3). In fairness Morgan put in a delightful cross for our goal.
No it's not, it's about our midfield and DJ is a midfielder! He should be playing in our midfield as a winger.
Ah, the old ‘W’ formation eh, pies at half time, peanut sellers on the terraces, Chris Duffy terrorising fullbacks, inside forwards dropping back into midfield.
It’s a bit like that now, with Stockley and two wingers up top, with Morgan and Clare in support.
The thread is about the midfield 3. If you want to continue discussing DJ our best player on the night start another thread please.
So, take a look at their first goal. Clare loses a header and then Morgan & Dobson both go for the same ball and neither get it.
Second goal Clare lost a header once again from the free kick.
(Inniss is then outpaced and the goalie is out of position, absolute shambles, but it started with the midfield 3). In fairness Morgan put in a delightful cross for our goal.
No it's not, it's about our midfield and DJ is a midfielder! He should be playing in our midfield as a winger.
Ah, the old ‘W’ formation eh, pies at half time, peanut sellers on the terraces, Chris Duffy terrorising fullbacks, inside forwards dropping back into midfield.
It’s a bit like that now, with Stockley and two wingers up top, with Morgan and Clare in support.
Dobson is a destroyer that doesn't actually break up play
Clare is a box to box player that's not good enough in either box
Morgan is a non scoring, non assisting number 10
Morgan has a lot of promise. To call him non assisting is also a bit unfair. He assisted last night's goal and also our best chance v S Wed. Admittedly both from free kicks. But without FK or Shinnie I'm not sure who else could possibly take them
This midfield is league 2..not league one and dont even think for one minute it is one that can get you promotion and play in the championship. If anything at best they are squad players.
We've ended up with Morgan (who seems to have gone backwards this season) alongside 2 bang average L1 midfielders
Pratley might be too old, but when you look at his history, he regularly played at a higher level. Lots of games in the Championship, and 25 games for Swansea (a passing side) in the PL. Shinnie provided something different, a bit of class and calmness on the ball.
Yes Clare and Dobson might be younger and with more energy, but as footballers I don't think they're as good, and combined with Morgan we desperately lack goal scoring and creativity
Its unfair for us to rely on morgan as our talisman though (at 21yrs old). We desperately need 1 or 2 leaders in centre mid.
Watson is too slow now and possibly lacks the desire.
Dobson has shown nothing for me.
Clare hasnt shown much but there is potential. He did annoy me last night when he gave a foul away and kicked the ball away (wasting time) at 2-1 down! Unforgivable!
I find it weird , we've spent probably over a million on the front three , but neglected to sign anyone to supply them. We've known for ages we wouldn't have JFC or Gilbey to start the season and haven't addressed the elephant in the room.
I find it weird , we've spent probably over a million on the front three , but neglected to sign anyone to supply them. We've known for ages we wouldn't have JFC or Gilbey to start the season and haven't addressed the elephant in the room.
Badly need some creative quality to come in asap
That's not true though, we signed Clare.
Clare is an engine room player - he spent much of yesterday kicking people and giving away free kicks. Box to box perhaps, but hardly creative
The midfield is the main worry and hopefully if that changes the rest of the positions can benefit from it cos at the moment I don't have a lot of confidence in any of our players. If we don't bring in better standard of players and not just for the midfield but in a few other areas as well, i'm not convinced with Nigel 'Chesney Hawkes' Adkins at the helm with what looks to be his one and only tactic/formation that our chances of pulling away from the bottom half can be achieved.
Comments
So, what's changed... The part in the middle.
Were Pratley and Watson really that good? JFC who had a stop start season?
As we saw last season the pratson midfield was dire, on paper, Dobson, Clare and Morgan should be better - younger, fitter, more energy, some footballing ability, but, it's just not working yet, it's still pretty early but the signs aren't great, Gilbey returning will help but we need at least one more to come in someone who can calmly pass the ball and move it around.
It's all well and good having an energetic midfield, but, if they can't play football very well...then, well, yeah....
Badly need some creative quality to come in asap
I think there is a player in Dobson, Morgan is playing in the wrong role and Clare has looked OK in patches. But collectively, across the 3 games they have been no where near good enough. I thought all 3 looked quite good as a unit in preseason but they are currently making Watson, JFC and Gilbey look like Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets.
The most worrying thing about it is Watson is our only other half fit CM so "it is what it is".
I don't think it's a relegation midfield, in its self, although it could be once injuries and suspensions kick in. It's certainly not a promotion chasing one.
He's obviously a really nice guy and everyone likes him, which i think is why fans cut him some slack. But ultimately he's not a player you could really rely on.
Pratley might be too old, but when you look at his history, he regularly played at a higher level. Lots of games in the Championship, and 25 games for Swansea (a passing side) in the PL. Shinnie provided something different, a bit of class and calmness on the ball.
Yes Clare and Dobson might be younger and with more energy, but as footballers I don't think they're as good, and combined with Morgan we desperately lack goal scoring and creativity
Clare is an engine room player - he spent much of yesterday kicking people and giving away free kicks. Box to box perhaps, but hardly creative
If we don't bring in better standard of players and not just for the midfield but in a few other areas as well, i'm not convinced with Nigel 'Chesney Hawkes' Adkins at the helm with what looks to be his one and only tactic/formation that our chances of pulling away from the bottom half can be achieved.
There's blame enough to go around.