“It’s good we’ve got an owner who wants to be hands-on, wants to be involved in it all. There’s a lot of people working hard, within the parameters we’ve got, to be as successful as we can.”
Two points from that final part of Adkins statement stand out. TS is "involved in it all" and "within the parameters we've got, to be as successful as we can."
Not a problem that TS is involved in the decision making, it's his money after all, but he hasn't owned a football business before and so isn't used to losing money on pretty much everything (which must be an alien concept for him).
To be as successful "as we can," within the parameters set, is an interesting statement that probably is a moot point from the committee, rather that Adkins alone. I wonder if that is a readjustment of success demanded/expected from this week's meeting.
I suspect they thought we had a team good enough to compete for promotion and would get away with the odd injury.
Four games in the realisation is it’s going to be a lot harder than they thought. So now is the time to try and backtrack and manage the high expectations that were set by both TS and NA’s comments.
RD did the same, he thought he would waltz to the Premier League with his Intra group and loan players, spending nothing and bringing in Idiots to run the club. Then once in the PL sell for millions of profit, he had no interest in the club and when he realised it wasn’t as easy as he thought wanted to wash his hands as he didn’t do failure.
The reality is you have to spend to do well unless you have a crop of good youngsters you don’t sell the minute you get a decent offer or you get a manager like Lennie or Curbs who took cheap players others didn’t want and turned them into players people did.
The reality is four of the past five years have been in League 1. Not where we want to be. At the moment we are here and I fear could continue to be so for a while.
I don't think Sandgaard's intentions are or ever were to get the club into the PL then flog it for a profit (as was the Duchatalet "master plan") but it does seem very likely that a bit of naivety and over-optimism has caught up with him somewhat.
I don't think that his comments about "blowing away the league" were an attempt to mislead anyone, but they were extremely misguided in hindsight.
Pleased to hear what Nigel has said, because when he said he wasn't going to have a holiday and it was important to get players in for a pre season it should've been patently obvious to supporters that saying "let's wait to the end of the window" by CL folk only lasted to the first few games where our short comings in defense, midfield and attack were clear to see over 90 minutes. We showed potential in 2nd half of Sheff Wed game and first half of MK game where we showed intent and some quicker accurate passing at least until we got to the box on most occasions. Just a hunch but believe Nigel would've been upset by the OTT comments from Thomas about this season when he probably already knew from Steve and Ged that we couldn't complete with the likes of Wigan and Ipswich with wages, agent fees and signing on fees, and that's before Championship teams show an interest.
An independent person would probably say nearly 10k season tickets were sold under false pretences but i love this club too much and believe Thomas Sandgaard did save us from evil so I couldn't possibly comment on the correlation between talking our prospects up when season tickets are being sold and the talking down of our chances when a large amount of tickets have been sold for a League 1 club.
I have worked in sales on the phone, in salesroom and on line so no problem with positivity but.......
I'm trying to be positive here in defence of TS & NA. To be fair when they made their comments I wasn't aware that Ipswich & Wigan were going to be spending so heavily. In fact back in May I'm not certain if Wigan had been taken over/had a future. Neither did I expect Ipswich's pension fund to be throwing around money to the extent they have.
I don't think Sandgaard's intentions are or ever were to get the club into the PL then flog it for a profit (as was the Duchatalet "master plan") but it does seem very likely that a bit of naivety and over-optimism has caught up with him somewhat.
I don't think that his comments about "blowing away the league" were an attempt to mislead anyone, but they were extremely misguided in hindsight.
How about Adkins comments that it would be us winning the league this season? Is he, a manager that knows the division very well, naive too?
What I will say if that the "feel good" factor of the last year since TS took over will quickly subside if we end up with mid table mediocrity, playing dull football. You could see that on Tuesday after the MK game. Imagine what it will be like in November if we're still struggling.
It's one thing to be below big spending sides (assuming that Ipswich and Wigan come good), but another if we end up behind other clubs on tight budgets, the likes of Rotherham, Wycombe, Burton, Lincoln, and even Pompey, judging from the comments from Cowley.
Pleased to hear what Nigel has said, because when he said he wasn't going to have a holiday and it was important to get players in for a pre season it should've been patently obvious to supporters that saying "let's wait to the end of the window" by CL folk only lasted to the first few games where our short comings in defense, midfield and attack were clear to see over 90 minutes. We showed potential in 2nd half of Sheff Wed game and first half of MK game where we showed intent and some quicker accurate passing at least until we got to the box on most occasions. Just a hunch but believe Nigel would've been upset by the OTT comments from Thomas about this season when he probably already knew from Steve and Ged that we couldn't complete with the likes of Wigan and Ipswich with wages, agent fees and signing on fees, and that's before Championship teams show an interest.
An independent person would probably say nearly 10k season tickets were sold under false pretences but i love this club too much and believe Thomas Sandgaard did save us from evil so I couldn't possibly comment on the correlation between talking our prospects up when season tickets are being sold and the talking down of our chances when a large amount of tickets have been sold for a League 1 club.
An independent person would absolutely laugh their hole off if they saw the comments on this forum. If anyone in this planet of earth thinks that the chairman saying out loud that we're looking to get promoted next season amounts to some kind of actual promise of success in a game you can't control then they need shooting into space
I don't think Sandgaard's intentions are or ever were to get the club into the PL then flog it for a profit (as was the Duchatalet "master plan") but it does seem very likely that a bit of naivety and over-optimism has caught up with him somewhat.
I don't think that his comments about "blowing away the league" were an attempt to mislead anyone, but they were extremely misguided in hindsight.
How about Adkins comments that it would be us winning the league this season? Is he, a manager that knows the division very well, naive too?
Maybe not naive as such but I don't think he knew then the difficulty/slowing of the market in a Covid world (which he'd never faced before) and probably didn't foresee the extent to which the likes of Ipswich etc would be throwing money around.
I'm sure he believed it was at the very least possible, at the time he actually made the comments. I'm also sure that his opinion now is somewhat different. He's positive, but he's not stupid.
Both Sandgaard and Adkins are naturally optimistic types, possibly overly so in some opinions. But I think beating them with a stick over comments made months ago is pretty silly and I have no doubt a reality check has set in behind the scenes.
^^^ and we lose around 10m a year in League One, would be a good idea to get out of it asap. Speculate to accumulate.
That’s very easy to say when it’s someone else’s £10m+.
Growing up as a close family friend of Mark Goldberg, I know unequivocally that there a queues of people waiting to take advantage of new money in the game. It’s never been disclosed publicly how much Venables allegedly made from the two Chinese players Palace signed as an example but the rumours were it was seven figures. Mark Goldberg is a vilified by Palace fans but he was a fan first and foremost who let his heart rule his head and pissed £35m up a wall leaving himself and the club bankrupt.
This season is an anomaly because we have at least 4 new owners of league one clubs. Two have splashed the cash and two haven’t. I’d much rather enjoy a sustainably built club like we did under Murray/Varney/Curbs with a clear plan than gamble the clubs future based on one potential season of enjoyment (although expectations should have been managed better from the beginning).
That’s not really the point, though, because whatever the number is the owner will be losing it anyway. And he’ll be losing it again if we don’t go up.
Not saying it’s easy or that it can’t backfire, but £1m plus oncosts is the difference between four players on £5k a week and four on £10k. That’s the level of gamble you decide whether to take. The rest of it is fixed.
How does , 'We are going to blow this league next season' compare to having a low budget. 🤔 The answer is, it doesn't.
It does compare to the Brexit bus budget on the side. Both were fantasy.
I am grateful that the footballers we signed flunked Maths .
How does any of that mean low budget? Smaller than Ipswich, paying new signings less than Wigan (who had no legacy contracts to consider) does not equal low. Our wage bill is massive compared to 75% of this league, even with the gaps in it.
Sandgaard's initial 5-year ambition to be in the Premier League by 2025 always did look a pipe dream born of unrealistic optimism, combined with inexperience of the realities of English football. Arguably it was the lift we needed after the dark days of ESI, so long as it was not taken seriously, and I can forgive his hyperbole at a time when he must have been so relieved to get his purchase over the line.
His original prediction of "We'll blow through League 1" was made last November on the back of having just beaten the mighty Fleetwood Town. Well. we didn't. We huffed and puffed and eventually (with the aid of a new manager bounce) missed out on the playoffs on goal difference. Spun as a near miss, we had arguably over achieved, and if we had made the play-offs, it was unlikely we would have achieved the consistency to win them.
It has always been clear from Sandgaard's statements that his aim was to make progress by bringing in youth, (a) to improve the team, and (b) to improve them and sell on at a profit. He has not got the bottomless pockets needed to buy success. That's fine with me - I'd prefer steady evolution to boom & bust revolution. But I do want to see evolution, not back-sliding. So the whole model hinges on the quality of the youth brought into the team.
Unfortunately Sandgaard and the playing management team has embarked on this at a time when the supply of top-notch players from our own academy has been stuttering a bit. We as fans are generally more forgiving of the inexperience of our own academy graduates than those who have come from elsewhere. Being booed by fans within a month of joining the club must be sole-destroying for the young in-comers, and will not bring out the best in them or the rest of the squad.
Do I think the PR coming out of the club has been over optimistic, and part of the problem? Yes. But then I'm of the "under promise and over deliver" persuasion, which is possibly incompatable with a healthy bottom line. That said, I will wait to see where we stand when both the transfer and the loan window have closed, before slitting my wrists.
Asked about the recruitment set-up, Adkins said: “We’ve got a director of football, a technical director, an owner, myself and a budget – everyone has got to work within those parameters. There’s a process here. We meet every week and there are things going on, trying to get the deals done.
“It’s good we’ve got an owner who wants to be hands-on, wants to be involved in it all. There’s a lot of people working hard, within the parameters we’ve got, to be as successful as we can.”
There's not enough money for promotion then. That is basically what Adkins is shouting from the rooftops.
The Roland era is back baby. Trying to create a sustainable club in League One is never going to happen.
Asked about the recruitment set-up, Adkins said: “We’ve got a director of football, a technical director, an owner, myself and a budget – everyone has got to work within those parameters. There’s a process here. We meet every week and there are things going on, trying to get the deals done.
“It’s good we’ve got an owner who wants to be hands-on, wants to be involved in it all. There’s a lot of people working hard, within the parameters we’ve got, to be as successful as we can.”
There's not enough money for promotion then. That is basically what Adkins is shouting from the rooftops.
The Roland era is back baby. Trying to create a sustainable club in League One is never going to happen.
Like fuck it is. Things are not great there's no denying but compared to the reign of Roland the club is much better off, even if the team is not.
Roland gave us a string of has-been and never-were coaches, Katrien Meire and outright contempt.
Sandgaard's made his share of mistakes but he's no Duchatalet.
Duchatelet owns a number of other clubs, including Standard Liege in his homeland, but Powell says he is not expecting a blank cheque despite Charlton being just three points clear of the Championship relegation zone.
“I’m sure everyone is looking at it and thinking it’s going to be about spend, spend, spend but it won’t be that,” he said.
“He has taken everything into consideration — financial fair play, what the club are doing commercially and what we do with our Trust and our supporters. He is immersing himself with everything.
“He wants us to do well and he wants to build on what we’ve done. He has recognised that it has been harder for us this year financially, budget wise and player wise.
“But he also knows that there are other issues to deal with and I’m very confident that he will deal with them. He wants to learn about the football club quickly and I just see it as a positive move.”
Replace Adkins for Powell there and you have a very similar press conference.
After all these years, funny how some fans viewpoints still shock you. People genuinely thinking we’re back to an era like the one under RD. Can’t believe what I’m reading.
After all these years, funny how some fans viewpoints still shock you. People genuinely thinking we’re back to an era like the one under RD. Can’t believe what I’m reading.
It's astonishing isn't it. I'm starting to think all the years of failure being able to be blamed on issues that weren't our fault as such has ramped up the entitlement in people's brains so that when we have an owner who isn't a total psychopath some fans expect absolute dominance or we're at death's door again. The irony is we've kicked out the crazy owners, and now it's the fans who are crazy. Sandgaard will be protesting us soon.
Sangaard runs the club in a totally opposite way to how Duchatele ran it. He obviously cares and is very enthusiastic. Duchatele on the other hand only cared about his money.
Pleased to hear what Nigel has said, because when he said he wasn't going to have a holiday and it was important to get players in for a pre season it should've been patently obvious to supporters that saying "let's wait to the end of the window" by CL folk only lasted to the first few games where our short comings in defense, midfield and attack were clear to see over 90 minutes. We showed potential in 2nd half of Sheff Wed game and first half of MK game where we showed intent and some quicker accurate passing at least until we got to the box on most occasions. Just a hunch but believe Nigel would've been upset by the OTT comments from Thomas about this season when he probably already knew from Steve and Ged that we couldn't complete with the likes of Wigan and Ipswich with wages, agent fees and signing on fees, and that's before Championship teams show an interest.
An independent person would probably say nearly 10k season tickets were sold under false pretences but i love this club too much and believe Thomas Sandgaard did save us from evil so I couldn't possibly comment on the correlation between talking our prospects up when season tickets are being sold and the talking down of our chances when a large amount of tickets have been sold for a League 1 club.
An independent person would absolutely laugh their hole off if they saw the comments on this forum. If anyone in this planet of earth thinks that the chairman saying out loud that we're looking to get promoted next season amounts to some kind of actual promise of success in a game you can't control then they need shooting into space
Sangaard runs the club in a totally opposite way to how Duchatele ran it. He obviously cares and is very enthusiastic. Duchatele on the other hand only cared about his money.
Exactly. Things can be going wrong without it suddenly being just like Duchatalet all over again.
After all these years, funny how some fans viewpoints still shock you. People genuinely thinking we’re back to an era like the one under RD. Can’t believe what I’m reading.
It's astonishing isn't it. I'm starting to think all the years of failure being able to be blamed on issues that weren't our fault as such has ramped up the entitlement in people's brains so that when we have an owner who isn't a total psychopath some fans expect absolute dominance or we're at death's door again. The irony is we've kicked out the crazy owners, and now it's the fans who are crazy. Sandgaard will be protesting us soon.
Sandgaard at the Crewe game throwing inflatable guitars on to the pitch!
After all these years, funny how some fans viewpoints still shock you. People genuinely thinking we’re back to an era like the one under RD. Can’t believe what I’m reading.
It's astonishing isn't it. I'm starting to think all the years of failure being able to be blamed on issues that weren't our fault as such has ramped up the entitlement in people's brains so that when we have an owner who isn't a total psychopath some fans expect absolute dominance or we're at death's door again. The irony is we've kicked out the crazy owners, and now it's the fans who are crazy. Sandgaard will be protesting us soon.
Sandgaard at the Crewe game throwing inflatable guitars at the fans.
^^^ and we lose around 10m a year in League One, would be a good idea to get out of it asap. Speculate to accumulate.
That’s very easy to say when it’s someone else’s £10m+.
Growing up as a close family friend of Mark Goldberg, I know unequivocally that there a queues of people waiting to take advantage of new money in the game. It’s never been disclosed publicly how much Venables allegedly made from the two Chinese players Palace signed as an example but the rumours were it was seven figures. Mark Goldberg is a vilified by Palace fans but he was a fan first and foremost who let his heart rule his head and pissed £35m up a wall leaving himself and the club bankrupt.
This season is an anomaly because we have at least 4 new owners of league one clubs. Two have splashed the cash and two haven’t. I’d much rather enjoy a sustainably built club like we did under Murray/Varney/Curbs with a clear plan than gamble the clubs future based on one potential season of enjoyment (although expectations should have been managed better from the beginning).
That’s not really the point, though, because whatever the number is the owner will be losing it anyway. And he’ll be losing it again if we don’t go up.
Not saying it’s easy or that it can’t backfire, but £1m plus oncosts is the difference between four players on £5k a week and four on £10k. That’s the level of gamble you decide whether to take. The rest of it is fixed.
That calculation I think assumes you can get players on a 1 year contract or otherwise have the option of offloading them to save that cost ongoing when you cant swallow the losses anymore.
Pleased to hear what Nigel has said, because when he said he wasn't going to have a holiday and it was important to get players in for a pre season it should've been patently obvious to supporters that saying "let's wait to the end of the window" by CL folk only lasted to the first few games where our short comings in defense, midfield and attack were clear to see over 90 minutes. We showed potential in 2nd half of Sheff Wed game and first half of MK game where we showed intent and some quicker accurate passing at least until we got to the box on most occasions. Just a hunch but believe Nigel would've been upset by the OTT comments from Thomas about this season when he probably already knew from Steve and Ged that we couldn't complete with the likes of Wigan and Ipswich with wages, agent fees and signing on fees, and that's before Championship teams show an interest.
An independent person would probably say nearly 10k season tickets were sold under false pretences but i love this club too much and believe Thomas Sandgaard did save us from evil so I couldn't possibly comment on the correlation between talking our prospects up when season tickets are being sold and the talking down of our chances when a large amount of tickets have been sold for a League 1 club.
An independent person would absolutely laugh their hole off if they saw the comments on this forum. If anyone in this planet of earth thinks that the chairman saying out loud that we're looking to get promoted next season amounts to some kind of actual promise of success in a game you can't control then they need shooting into space
No read what I said clearly if your going to quote me. The independent person in relation to selling season tickets. Full of optimistic talk when tickets are to be sold and a more realistic view once there sold. That would be the perception so don't understand your rant. Thomas Sandgaard has the best intentions for Cafc I'm sure compared to past characters including Roland Duchatelet who I believe saw Charlton fans as his children !
I appreciate many of your posts but you have an inability to see genuine issues which just need some clarity. I prefer a 5 year plan which gets us back to being mid table championship. I personally didn't need the European football or whatever the lofty ambition were.
I can't say enough how TS saved us from a fate worse (with those two it would have been the death of the club) than Death in Elliott and the odious Southall who I called out with Lancs lad and Muttley when smoke was still being blown up Southall's arse.
Thomas Sandgaard is no Duchatelet but the irony is top young talent will still leave too soon because of the Cat A clubs being so strong and Cat b too weak. Now that is something Ged Roddy might want to answer and explain as he was involved in the compensation package.
After all these years, funny how some fans viewpoints still shock you. People genuinely thinking we’re back to an era like the one under RD. Can’t believe what I’m reading.
Please remind me of who owns the valley and sparrows lane.
As things stand we are a league one club.
We have a worse squad than we had last season.
And unless I'm completely mistaken things are not going well regarding signing new players. Get used to league one football people because we will still be here next season.
Unfortunately as we stand here today, this squad, if suffering a couple of long term injuries could end up relegated. Say what you like it’s a fact that under RD we never hit League 2.
So, we await some news, that will make this situation better than today.
Unfortunately as we stand here today, this squad, if suffering a couple of long term injuries could end up relegated. Say what you like it’s a fact that under RD we never hit League 2.
So, we await some news, that will make this situation better than today.
We haven't actually hit league 2 under Sandgaard either so let's cut that doom saying bollocks out right now.
You could just as easily say that with a couple of good signings, we could get promoted.
Some people need to get a ****ing grip. Three games in and they've mentally relegated us already? Jesus H. Christ.
Comments
Two points from that final part of Adkins statement stand out. TS is "involved in it all" and "within the parameters we've got, to be as successful as we can."
Not a problem that TS is involved in the decision making, it's his money after all, but he hasn't owned a football business before and so isn't used to losing money on pretty much everything (which must be an alien concept for him).
To be as successful "as we can," within the parameters set, is an interesting statement that probably is a moot point from the committee, rather that Adkins alone. I wonder if that is a readjustment of success demanded/expected from this week's meeting.
I suspect they thought we had a team good enough to compete for promotion and would get away with the odd injury.
Four games in the realisation is it’s going to be a lot harder than they thought. So now is the time to try and backtrack and manage the high expectations that were set by both TS and NA’s comments.
RD did the same, he thought he would waltz to the Premier League with his Intra group and loan players, spending nothing and bringing in Idiots to run the club. Then once in the PL sell for millions of profit, he had no interest in the club and when he realised it wasn’t as easy as he thought wanted to wash his hands as he didn’t do failure.
I don't think that his comments about "blowing away the league" were an attempt to mislead anyone, but they were extremely misguided in hindsight.
Just a hunch but believe Nigel would've been upset by the OTT comments from Thomas about this season when he probably already knew from Steve and Ged that we couldn't complete with the likes of Wigan and Ipswich with wages, agent fees and signing on fees, and that's before Championship teams show an interest.
An independent person would probably say nearly 10k season tickets were sold under false pretences but i love this club too much and believe Thomas Sandgaard did save us from evil so I couldn't possibly comment on the correlation between talking our prospects up when season tickets are being sold and the talking down of our chances when a large amount of tickets have been sold for a League 1 club.
I have worked in sales on the phone, in salesroom and on line so no problem with positivity but.......
That is big Diddy's opinion not Nigel's so may be a good idea for you to edit.
If we don't get some quality loans in we may well end up being mid table but that quote isn't Nigel's.
To be fair when they made their comments I wasn't aware that Ipswich & Wigan were going to be spending so heavily.
In fact back in May I'm not certain if Wigan had been taken over/had a future.
Neither did I expect Ipswich's pension fund to be throwing around money to the extent they have.
It's one thing to be below big spending sides (assuming that Ipswich and Wigan come good), but another if we end up behind other clubs on tight budgets, the likes of Rotherham, Wycombe, Burton, Lincoln, and even Pompey, judging from the comments from Cowley.
I'm sure he believed it was at the very least possible, at the time he actually made the comments. I'm also sure that his opinion now is somewhat different. He's positive, but he's not stupid.
Both Sandgaard and Adkins are naturally optimistic types, possibly overly so in some opinions. But I think beating them with a stick over comments made months ago is pretty silly and I have no doubt a reality check has set in behind the scenes.
Not saying it’s easy or that it can’t backfire, but £1m plus oncosts is the difference between four players on £5k a week and four on £10k. That’s the level of gamble you decide whether to take. The rest of it is fixed.
His original prediction of "We'll blow through League 1" was made last November on the back of having just beaten the mighty Fleetwood Town. Well. we didn't. We huffed and puffed and eventually (with the aid of a new manager bounce) missed out on the playoffs on goal difference. Spun as a near miss, we had arguably over achieved, and if we had made the play-offs, it was unlikely we would have achieved the consistency to win them.
It has always been clear from Sandgaard's statements that his aim was to make progress by bringing in youth, (a) to improve the team, and (b) to improve them and sell on at a profit. He has not got the bottomless pockets needed to buy success. That's fine with me - I'd prefer steady evolution to boom & bust revolution. But I do want to see evolution, not back-sliding. So the whole model hinges on the quality of the youth brought into the team.
Unfortunately Sandgaard and the playing management team has embarked on this at a time when the supply of top-notch players from our own academy has been stuttering a bit. We as fans are generally more forgiving of the inexperience of our own academy graduates than those who have come from elsewhere. Being booed by fans within a month of joining the club must be sole-destroying for the young in-comers, and will not bring out the best in them or the rest of the squad.
Do I think the PR coming out of the club has been over optimistic, and part of the problem? Yes. But then I'm of the "under promise and over deliver" persuasion, which is possibly incompatable with a healthy bottom line. That said, I will wait to see where we stand when both the transfer and the loan window have closed, before slitting my wrists.
Asked about the recruitment set-up, Adkins said: “We’ve got a director of football, a technical director, an owner, myself and a budget – everyone has got to work within those parameters. There’s a process here. We meet every week and there are things going on, trying to get the deals done.
The Roland era is back baby. Trying to create a sustainable club in League One is never going to happen.
Roland gave us a string of has-been and never-were coaches, Katrien Meire and outright contempt.
Sandgaard's made his share of mistakes but he's no Duchatalet.
Replace Adkins for Powell there and you have a very similar press conference.
It's incredible. And not in a good way.
No read what I said clearly if your going to quote me.
The independent person in relation to selling season tickets. Full of optimistic talk when tickets are to be sold and a more realistic view once there sold. That would be the perception so don't understand your rant. Thomas Sandgaard has the best intentions for Cafc I'm sure compared to past characters including Roland Duchatelet who I believe saw Charlton fans as his children !
I appreciate many of your posts but you have an inability to see genuine issues which just need some clarity.
I prefer a 5 year plan which gets us back to being mid table championship. I personally didn't need the European football or whatever the lofty ambition were.
I can't say enough how TS saved us from a fate worse (with those two it would have been the death of the club) than Death in Elliott and the odious Southall who I called out with Lancs lad and Muttley when smoke was still being blown up Southall's arse.
Thomas Sandgaard is no Duchatelet but the irony is top young talent will still leave too soon because of the Cat A clubs being so strong and Cat b too weak. Now that is something Ged Roddy might want to answer and explain as he was involved in the compensation package.
As things stand we are a league one club.
We have a worse squad than we had last season.
And unless I'm completely mistaken things are not going well regarding signing new players.
Get used to league one football people because we will still be here next season.
You could just as easily say that with a couple of good signings, we could get promoted.
Some people need to get a ****ing grip. Three games in and they've mentally relegated us already? Jesus H. Christ.