I agree with the sentiment but I feel there are more issues at play. Firstly and most importantly, we have to ensure people don't starve or suffer severely. But then we have to understand that those on incomes that may protect them from the worst effects could stop spending their money and that will have an impact on the economy. We also have to undertsand that freezing the cap at the previous rate will have an effect on inflation and interests rates. This will have a lasting impact on our economy and can't be ignored.
You say if it costs 100Bn then so be it and I agree with you but I think there are better ways to do it than give a blanket payment to everyone. I'm lucky in that fortunately I have solar, batteries that charge overnight at 8p kw which pretty much run my house so tbh I dont need the payment. Other people are very fortunate and although painful can afford the increase. Giving blanket payments mean the people that need it get less
Targeting those most in need is easy. You pay it to those on benefits but it’s not just those on benefits that are going to get blasted by this crisis. Not so easy to target them. It becomes complicated and costly and people who really need help will be missed. Far better to freeze the cap at todays rate for everyone. Yes there will be those that don’t really need the help but in reality that’s a small percentage in the big scheme of things. Instant results and transparent. That’s not what will happen though. It will be a complete dogs dinner of mitigations difficult to understand and costly and inefficient to implement.
Regarding wind power, compared to early adopters Germany, the UK really missed the boat during the economic boom years of Sir Anthony Charles Linton Blair. We should have started much earlier, same with solar. 2010-2015 saw a huge shift in the right direction.
Regarding wind power, compared to early adopters Germany, the UK really missed the boat during the economic boom years of Sir Anthony Charles Linton Blair. We should have started much earlier, same with solar. 2010-2015 saw a huge shift in the right direction.
They chose Nuclear instead. Wonder how the plants have been doing during construction.
"Mr Blair told the CBI, Britain’s employer organisation, that he had this week received an early draft of the energy review. He said the implications of the report “for Britain’s climate change targets and energy security” were stark.
“By 2025, if current policy is unchanged, there will be a dramatic gap on our targets to reduce CO2 emissions,” he said. “We will become heavily dependent on gas and, at the same time, move from being 80-90 per cent self-reliant in gas to 80-90 per cent dependent on foreign imports – mostly from the Middle East, and Africa and Russia.”"
Obviously the opposition did everything they could to block it. And then refused to fund it once in power.
Changing to sustainable green energy NOW is imperative, so that we don't have to rely on fossil fuels.
We need to start to take it seriously now - but switching completely to renewables will take decades.
Will it? Genuine question- do you have expert knowledge to state that?
My understanding is that solar panels can be online very VERY quickly and that wind turbines are much quicker than e.g. coal plants to construct and erect.
With some serious effort, I am under the impression that much could be done in a year, for example.
Regarding wind power, compared to early adopters Germany, the UK really missed the boat during the economic boom years of Sir Anthony Charles Linton Blair. We should have started much earlier, same with solar. 2010-2015 saw a huge shift in the right direction.
They chose Nuclear instead. Wonder how the plants have been doing during construction.
"Mr Blair told the CBI, Britain’s employer organisation, that he had this week received an early draft of the energy review. He said the implications of the report “for Britain’s climate change targets and energy security” were stark.
“By 2025, if current policy is unchanged, there will be a dramatic gap on our targets to reduce CO2 emissions,” he said. “We will become heavily dependent on gas and, at the same time, move from being 80-90 per cent self-reliant in gas to 80-90 per cent dependent on foreign imports – mostly from the Middle East, and Africa and Russia.”"
Obviously the opposition did everything they could to block it. And then refused to fund it once in power.
Excellent post. Thanks for the historical perspective.
That really is very telling. This energy mix was forseen.
Those who blocked it, and those who currently run the country were and are in the pockets of oil and gas companies
Changing to sustainable green energy NOW is imperative, so that we don't have to rely on fossil fuels.
We need to start to take it seriously now - but switching completely to renewables will take decades.
Will it? Genuine question- do you have expert knowledge to state that?
My understanding is that solar panels can be online very VERY quickly and that wind turbines are much quicker than e.g. coal plants to construct and erect.
With some serious effort, I am under the impression that much could be done in a year, for example.
Have I got it wrong?
Where there's a will, there's a way, but has this Government got the will? I very much doubt it as too many of them are in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry.
Regarding wind power, compared to early adopters Germany, the UK really missed the boat during the economic boom years of Sir Anthony Charles Linton Blair. We should have started much earlier, same with solar. 2010-2015 saw a huge shift in the right direction.
Amazing how some still after 14 years of Blair not being PM, cling to him as an excuse for this shower.
anyway, BEIS select committee has criticised this government for its failures since 2010 on home installation. We were insulating 250,000 homes a year before that always Tories got elected.
Changing to sustainable green energy NOW is imperative, so that we don't have to rely on fossil fuels.
We need to start to take it seriously now - but switching completely to renewables will take decades.
Will it? Genuine question- do you have expert knowledge to state that?
My understanding is that solar panels can be online very VERY quickly and that wind turbines are much quicker than e.g. coal plants to construct and erect.
With some serious effort, I am under the impression that much could be done in a year, for example.
Have I got it wrong?
In the last quarter of 2021, individual renewables contributed the following:
Wind power contributed 26.1% of the UK’s total electricity generation in Q4 2021, with onshore and offshore wind contributing 12% and 14% respectively.
Bioenergy, the burning of renewable organic materials, contributed 12.7% to the renewable mix.
Solar power
contributed 1.8% to the renewable mix – this represented a 24% increase
compared to Q4 2020, due to a 0.7 gigawatt (GW) increase in installed
capacity.
Hydropower, including tidal, contributed 2.1% to the renewable mix.
So roughly 43% of electrical energy was from renewables and it's clear that there is little or no appetite for solar, so wind is likely to be the king. Getting that 43% up to 100% will not be a quick fix and will require huge investment.
But that isn't the issue - that is just electricity, which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot in powering gas boilers that make up the vast majority of domestic heating fuel. There are 26 million gas boilers in the UK.
I stand by my claim that switching completely to renewables will take decades - that isn't saying we shouldn't be ramping it up hugely from now.
They'll act and there will be a raft of measures I suspect once a new PM is in situ.
I can see a mixture of price freezes, cash handouts against bills like they have currently proposed and Income tax cuts and personal allowance increases (although the latter less likely in my view as more difficult to back track on/undo in the future).
I'm fairly sure tax cuts will be part of Truss's solution, not so sure about Sunak though.
Then you get onto business's who aren't party to the price capping, they will need some assistance as well.
It should also be a wake up call for more sustainable power generation, they really need to start subsidising solar much much more for homeowners so that becomes much more of the norm. I did get a verbal quote for my house, was in the region of £18k, they estimated it'd save about £700 a year so maybe double that currently, but even still that's a long pay back time.
Rob if that was your quote you were being ripped off. We are installing 4kw of Solar PV everyday of the week at the moment ( this is the maximum you are allowed to fit on a domestic property without DNO permission which they are unlikely to ever give ) our installed price is £3,770.00. I know that because we install so much we buy the kit alot cheaper than smaller companies but anything over £6k for a domestic property the company doing the quote should be wearing a mask
This to me is total madness, if I was allowed I could add 8kw of solar panels, install batteries and adapt my heating hot water system so that all my energy usage was generated at source and all for around £25k and no more energy bills except for standing charges and some maintenance. If I could I would and thereby reduce my demand on resources from elsewhere
They'll act and there will be a raft of measures I suspect once a new PM is in situ.
I can see a mixture of price freezes, cash handouts against bills like they have currently proposed and Income tax cuts and personal allowance increases (although the latter less likely in my view as more difficult to back track on/undo in the future).
I'm fairly sure tax cuts will be part of Truss's solution, not so sure about Sunak though.
Then you get onto business's who aren't party to the price capping, they will need some assistance as well.
It should also be a wake up call for more sustainable power generation, they really need to start subsidising solar much much more for homeowners so that becomes much more of the norm. I did get a verbal quote for my house, was in the region of £18k, they estimated it'd save about £700 a year so maybe double that currently, but even still that's a long pay back time.
Rob if that was your quote you were being ripped off. We are installing 4kw of Solar PV everyday of the week at the moment ( this is the maximum you are allowed to fit on a domestic property without DNO permission which they are unlikely to ever give ) our installed price is £3,770.00. I know that because we install so much we buy the kit alot cheaper than smaller companies but anything over £6k for a domestic property the company doing the quote should be wearing a mask
Read an amazing article on vehicle to grid (v2g) technology a couple days back.
The idea being that cars get left plugged in, they charge at off peak rates, and then, when there is a "surge" on the grid at peak times, that energy gets fed back into the grid (lithium batteries generally don't degrade through charging/discharging the same way others do). People would then effectively be paid a premium for doing that.
This will help flatten the peak demand curve. Really smart tech in my opinion.
They'll act and there will be a raft of measures I suspect once a new PM is in situ.
I can see a mixture of price freezes, cash handouts against bills like they have currently proposed and Income tax cuts and personal allowance increases (although the latter less likely in my view as more difficult to back track on/undo in the future).
I'm fairly sure tax cuts will be part of Truss's solution, not so sure about Sunak though.
Then you get onto business's who aren't party to the price capping, they will need some assistance as well.
It should also be a wake up call for more sustainable power generation, they really need to start subsidising solar much much more for homeowners so that becomes much more of the norm. I did get a verbal quote for my house, was in the region of £18k, they estimated it'd save about £700 a year so maybe double that currently, but even still that's a long pay back time.
Rob if that was your quote you were being ripped off. We are installing 4kw of Solar PV everyday of the week at the moment ( this is the maximum you are allowed to fit on a domestic property without DNO permission which they are unlikely to ever give ) our installed price is £3,770.00. I know that because we install so much we buy the kit alot cheaper than smaller companies but anything over £6k for a domestic property the company doing the quote should be wearing a mask
They'll act and there will be a raft of measures I suspect once a new PM is in situ.
I can see a mixture of price freezes, cash handouts against bills like they have currently proposed and Income tax cuts and personal allowance increases (although the latter less likely in my view as more difficult to back track on/undo in the future).
I'm fairly sure tax cuts will be part of Truss's solution, not so sure about Sunak though.
Then you get onto business's who aren't party to the price capping, they will need some assistance as well.
It should also be a wake up call for more sustainable power generation, they really need to start subsidising solar much much more for homeowners so that becomes much more of the norm. I did get a verbal quote for my house, was in the region of £18k, they estimated it'd save about £700 a year so maybe double that currently, but even still that's a long pay back time.
Rob if that was your quote you were being ripped off. We are installing 4kw of Solar PV everyday of the week at the moment ( this is the maximum you are allowed to fit on a domestic property without DNO permission which they are unlikely to ever give ) our installed price is £3,770.00. I know that because we install so much we buy the kit alot cheaper than smaller companies but anything over £6k for a domestic property the company doing the quote should be wearing a mask
Changing to sustainable green energy NOW is imperative, so that we don't have to rely on fossil fuels.
We need to start to take it seriously now - but switching completely to renewables will take decades.
Will it? Genuine question- do you have expert knowledge to state that?
My understanding is that solar panels can be online very VERY quickly and that wind turbines are much quicker than e.g. coal plants to construct and erect.
With some serious effort, I am under the impression that much could be done in a year, for example.
Have I got it wrong?
In the last quarter of 2021, individual renewables contributed the following:
Wind power contributed 26.1% of the UK’s total electricity generation in Q4 2021, with onshore and offshore wind contributing 12% and 14% respectively.
Bioenergy, the burning of renewable organic materials, contributed 12.7% to the renewable mix.
Solar power
contributed 1.8% to the renewable mix – this represented a 24% increase
compared to Q4 2020, due to a 0.7 gigawatt (GW) increase in installed
capacity.
Hydropower, including tidal, contributed 2.1% to the renewable mix.
So roughly 43% of electrical energy was from renewables and it's clear that there is little or no appetite for solar, so wind is likely to be the king. Getting that 43% up to 100% will not be a quick fix and will require huge investment.
But that isn't the issue - that is just electricity, which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot in powering gas boilers that make up the vast majority of domestic heating fuel. There are 26 million gas boilers in the UK.
I stand by my claim that switching completely to renewables will take decades - that isn't saying we shouldn't be ramping it up hugely from now.
BTW - no, I do not have expert knowledge.
That data, while interesting, is not really relevant to the point at hand
You are absolutely right that people mostly having gas boilers is indeed a barrier to transition, though... and that will indeed to take time to change.... unless.... some serious will be government makes it a viable speedy transition
I always use the addition of "inside toilets" as my example here. Have you noticed how ALL Victorian terraces have extensions on the back? That is due to free money from government to improve sanitation and get people using indoor toilets.
As another poster has said, where there's a will there's a way....
Batteries need looking at in more detail mate. To get the best out of them you need to know what your daily usage is but as a rule.
A 5 kw battery with the kit to commission it should be around £3.5k. You can increase in increments I.e. 10kw are approx £6.8k etc There is no point in having more batteries than you can charge so without a smart tariff where u can charge them off peak there is little point in having more than 10kw on a domestic property if you are thinking solar will charge them on it's own. As I said batteries need a bit of thinking about whereas solar is a complete no brainer if you have a bit of money sitting in a deposit account or something solar will give a massively better ROI without even trying to make the most of it
Changing to sustainable green energy NOW is imperative, so that we don't have to rely on fossil fuels.
We need to start to take it seriously now - but switching completely to renewables will take decades.
Will it? Genuine question- do you have expert knowledge to state that?
My understanding is that solar panels can be online very VERY quickly and that wind turbines are much quicker than e.g. coal plants to construct and erect.
With some serious effort, I am under the impression that much could be done in a year, for example.
Have I got it wrong?
In the last quarter of 2021, individual renewables contributed the following:
Wind power contributed 26.1% of the UK’s total electricity generation in Q4 2021, with onshore and offshore wind contributing 12% and 14% respectively.
Bioenergy, the burning of renewable organic materials, contributed 12.7% to the renewable mix.
Solar power
contributed 1.8% to the renewable mix – this represented a 24% increase
compared to Q4 2020, due to a 0.7 gigawatt (GW) increase in installed
capacity.
Hydropower, including tidal, contributed 2.1% to the renewable mix.
So roughly 43% of electrical energy was from renewables and it's clear that there is little or no appetite for solar, so wind is likely to be the king. Getting that 43% up to 100% will not be a quick fix and will require huge investment.
But that isn't the issue - that is just electricity, which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot in powering gas boilers that make up the vast majority of domestic heating fuel. There are 26 million gas boilers in the UK.
I stand by my claim that switching completely to renewables will take decades - that isn't saying we shouldn't be ramping it up hugely from now.
BTW - no, I do not have expert knowledge.
That data, while interesting, is not really relevant to the point at hand
You are absolutely right that people mostly having gas boilers is indeed a barrier to transition, though... and that will indeed to take time to change.... unless.... some serious will be government makes it a viable speedy transition
I always use the addition of "inside toilets" as my example here. Have you noticed how ALL Victorian terraces have extensions on the back? That is due to free money from government to improve sanitation and get people using indoor toilets.
As another poster has said, where there's a will there's a way....
The relevant point at hand was my responding to the claim that we should change to sustainable green energy NOW so we don't have to rely on fossil fuels - my point is that it will take a long time before we are not reliant at all on fossil fuels. How long did the Victorians take to get every house equipped with an inside toilet? A weekend?
Replacing 26 million gas boilers with effective electric heating will take decades - but I accept that moving to 100% renewable electricity generation could be achieved in less time than that.
Changing to sustainable green energy NOW is imperative, so that we don't have to rely on fossil fuels.
We need to start to take it seriously now - but switching completely to renewables will take decades.
Will it? Genuine question- do you have expert knowledge to state that?
My understanding is that solar panels can be online very VERY quickly and that wind turbines are much quicker than e.g. coal plants to construct and erect.
With some serious effort, I am under the impression that much could be done in a year, for example.
Have I got it wrong?
In the last quarter of 2021, individual renewables contributed the following:
Wind power contributed 26.1% of the UK’s total electricity generation in Q4 2021, with onshore and offshore wind contributing 12% and 14% respectively.
Bioenergy, the burning of renewable organic materials, contributed 12.7% to the renewable mix.
Solar power
contributed 1.8% to the renewable mix – this represented a 24% increase
compared to Q4 2020, due to a 0.7 gigawatt (GW) increase in installed
capacity.
Hydropower, including tidal, contributed 2.1% to the renewable mix.
So roughly 43% of electrical energy was from renewables and it's clear that there is little or no appetite for solar, so wind is likely to be the king. Getting that 43% up to 100% will not be a quick fix and will require huge investment.
But that isn't the issue - that is just electricity, which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot in powering gas boilers that make up the vast majority of domestic heating fuel. There are 26 million gas boilers in the UK.
I stand by my claim that switching completely to renewables will take decades - that isn't saying we shouldn't be ramping it up hugely from now.
BTW - no, I do not have expert knowledge.
That data, while interesting, is not really relevant to the point at hand
You are absolutely right that people mostly having gas boilers is indeed a barrier to transition, though... and that will indeed to take time to change.... unless.... some serious will be government makes it a viable speedy transition
I always use the addition of "inside toilets" as my example here. Have you noticed how ALL Victorian terraces have extensions on the back? That is due to free money from government to improve sanitation and get people using indoor toilets.
As another poster has said, where there's a will there's a way....
The relevant point at hand was my responding to the claim that we should change to sustainable green energy NOW so we don't have to rely on fossil fuels - my point is that it will take a long time before we are not reliant at all on fossil fuels. How long did the Victorians take to get every house equipped with an inside toilet? A weekend?
Replacing 26 million gas boilers with effective electric heating will take decades - but I accept that moving to 100% renewable electricity generation could be achieved in less time than that.
Our discussion lead me to dig up this useful article:
It was Victorian housing, but the indoor toilet grants seem to have started in 1949 and then increased until everyone had done it (took until the 80s to reach coverage of 90% of costs).
Lessons to be learned from the whole shebang
Took too long - decades (not as quick as I thought)
They'll act and there will be a raft of measures I suspect once a new PM is in situ.
I can see a mixture of price freezes, cash handouts against bills like they have currently proposed and Income tax cuts and personal allowance increases (although the latter less likely in my view as more difficult to back track on/undo in the future).
I'm fairly sure tax cuts will be part of Truss's solution, not so sure about Sunak though.
Then you get onto business's who aren't party to the price capping, they will need some assistance as well.
It should also be a wake up call for more sustainable power generation, they really need to start subsidising solar much much more for homeowners so that becomes much more of the norm. I did get a verbal quote for my house, was in the region of £18k, they estimated it'd save about £700 a year so maybe double that currently, but even still that's a long pay back time.
Rob if that was your quote you were being ripped off. We are installing 4kw of Solar PV everyday of the week at the moment ( this is the maximum you are allowed to fit on a domestic property without DNO permission which they are unlikely to ever give ) our installed price is £3,770.00. I know that because we install so much we buy the kit alot cheaper than smaller companies but anything over £6k for a domestic property the company doing the quote should be wearing a mask
It was a back of fag packet and included batteries and 2x ev chargers, but sounds like they were way over the mark. If excluding the EV's as don't need them currently but including a battery it was in the £4-5k region I'd probably get it done.
I’m hoping our monthly energy consumption is going to drop as we’ve had an aga taken out (came with the house) and replaced it with a normal cooker.
Found this energy calculator on the Telegraphs website, where you put in what you’re currently paying a month, and it predicts how much it will be in October and so forth.
As I say, I’m hoping my monthly figure will drop significantly as I’m not consuming as many gas units, but the costs have gone through the roof / will continue to go through the roof, without intervention.
Theres all sort of ideas, vat cuts etc , but will it be enough, and how far can any government go?
Hasn’t taken long for the narrative to change. It won’t be long until it’s ‘you’re lucky to have the energy you have, and, energy is for lefties’
Imagine being Kelvin MacKenzie and thinking you can take the moral high ground on anything.
Imagine being Kelvin Mackenzie and not realising what a massive cunt you are.
He’s also a Charlton fan, so Kelvin if you’re reading this what Dave said above is far more accurate than anything you have ever written in your whole career.
Comments
Had one on those in the kitchen of our maisonette in Ann Street - used to get the paraffin for my mum in a 'Arkwright' type shop in Conway Road!
2010-2015 saw a huge shift in the right direction.
https://www.ft.com/content/c26198be-e50e-11da-80de-0000779e2340
They chose Nuclear instead. Wonder how the plants have been doing during construction.
"Mr Blair told the CBI, Britain’s employer organisation, that he had this week received an early draft of the energy review. He said the implications of the report “for Britain’s climate change targets and energy security” were stark. “By 2025, if current policy is unchanged, there will be a dramatic gap on our targets to reduce CO2 emissions,” he said. “We will become heavily dependent on gas and, at the same time, move from being 80-90 per cent self-reliant in gas to 80-90 per cent dependent on foreign imports – mostly from the Middle East, and Africa and Russia.”"
Obviously the opposition did everything they could to block it. And then refused to fund it once in power.
https://news.sky.com/story/energy-bills-price-cap-ofgem-new-latest-updates-live-cost-living-12615118
Genuine question- do you have expert knowledge to state that?
My understanding is that solar panels can be online very VERY quickly and that wind turbines are much quicker than e.g. coal plants to construct and erect.
With some serious effort, I am under the impression that much could be done in a year, for example.
Have I got it wrong?
That really is very telling. This energy mix was forseen.
Those who blocked it, and those who currently run the country were and are in the pockets of oil and gas companies
anyway, BEIS select committee has criticised this government for its failures since 2010 on home installation. We were insulating 250,000 homes a year before that always Tories got elected.
https://www.cityam.com/exclusive-beis-chair-slams-government-over-lack-of-insulation-plans-heading-into-winter/?amp=1
In the last quarter of 2021, individual renewables contributed the following:
Wind power contributed 26.1% of the UK’s total electricity generation in Q4 2021, with onshore and offshore wind contributing 12% and 14% respectively.
Bioenergy, the burning of renewable organic materials, contributed 12.7% to the renewable mix.
Solar power contributed 1.8% to the renewable mix – this represented a 24% increase compared to Q4 2020, due to a 0.7 gigawatt (GW) increase in installed capacity.
Hydropower, including tidal, contributed 2.1% to the renewable mix.
The idea being that cars get left plugged in, they charge at off peak rates, and then, when there is a "surge" on the grid at peak times, that energy gets fed back into the grid (lithium batteries generally don't degrade through charging/discharging the same way others do). People would then effectively be paid a premium for doing that.
This will help flatten the peak demand curve. Really smart tech in my opinion.
That's the one - outside festooned with bins, brooms, buckets and all things hardware!
I'll PM you.
You are absolutely right that people mostly having gas boilers is indeed a barrier to transition, though... and that will indeed to take time to change.... unless.... some serious will be government makes it a viable speedy transition
I always use the addition of "inside toilets" as my example here. Have you noticed how ALL Victorian terraces have extensions on the back? That is due to free money from government to improve sanitation and get people using indoor toilets.
As another poster has said, where there's a will there's a way....
A 5 kw battery with the kit to commission it should be around £3.5k. You can increase in increments I.e. 10kw are approx £6.8k etc
There is no point in having more batteries than you can charge so without a smart tariff where u can charge them off peak there is little point in having more than 10kw on a domestic property if you are thinking solar will charge them on it's own.
As I said batteries need a bit of thinking about whereas solar is a complete no brainer if you have a bit of money sitting in a deposit account or something solar will give a massively better ROI without even trying to make the most of it
https://www.nesta.org.uk/feature/stories-change/rise-indoor-plumbing-uk-lessons-green-transitio/
It was Victorian housing, but the indoor toilet grants seem to have started in 1949 and then increased until everyone had done it (took until the 80s to reach coverage of 90% of costs).
Lessons to be learned from the whole shebang
Took too long - decades (not as quick as I thought)
EDIT, just seen your post on battery cost.
Found this energy calculator on the Telegraphs website, where you put in what you’re currently paying a month, and it predicts how much it will be in October and so forth.
As I say, I’m hoping my monthly figure will drop significantly as I’m not consuming as many gas units, but the costs have gone through the roof / will continue to go through the roof, without intervention.
Theres all sort of ideas, vat cuts etc , but will it be enough, and how far can any government go?