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Energy Bills

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  • Every single measure will be able to be picked apart as not being good enough, and they will be by people that have blinkers on, twas ever thus.

    The real test will be to look at the whole package of measures, then we can start having a proper discussion, rather than sniping at them one by one. 

    Just a couple more weeks. 
  • MrWalker said:
    Let's keep trying years more of the second option across CL.
    Law of averages suggests hatred will eventually triumph?
    Depends who your hatred is directed at…
  • edited August 2022
    PWR
    Wholesale gas prices have increased by about 90%, however the cost of producing that gas hasn't risen by much so why has the price increased by so much - OK I know market forces but why should the producing companies be allowed to increase the prices by so much - it is immoral, or have I got this wrong?
    I presume that there’s less supply in the wholesale market due to sanctions against Russia.

    (plus other factors I’m guessing)
  • PWR
    Wholesale gas prices have increased by about 90%, however the cost of producing that gas hasn't risen by much so why has the price increased by so much - OK I know market forces but why should the producing companies be allowed to increase the prices by so much - it is immoral, or have I got this wrong?


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-62644537
  • Huskaris said:
    Every single measure will be able to be picked apart as not being good enough, and they will be by people that have blinkers on, twas ever thus.

    The real test will be to look at the whole package of measures, then we can start having a proper discussion, rather than sniping at them one by one. 

    Just a couple more weeks. 
    You vote Conservative,  right? 
  • MrWalker said:
    Let's keep trying years more of the second option across CL.
    Law of averages suggests hatred will eventually triumph?
    You, too?
  • Huskaris said:
    Every single measure will be able to be picked apart as not being good enough, and they will be by people that have blinkers on, twas ever thus.

    The real test will be to look at the whole package of measures, then we can start having a proper discussion, rather than sniping at them one by one. 

    Just a couple more weeks. 
    The Tory leadership election should never have taken this long in such a national crisis. 

    I was always under the impression that we elect a party to govern by Cabinet, with the approval of Parliament, we don't elect a Prime Minister to make all the decisions alone. 
  • edited August 2022

    I thought this was an interesting summary of why the situation is particularly challenging for the UK:

    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/08/19/energy/energy-prices-uk-europe-explainer/index.html#amp_tf=From %1$s&aoh=16616956117505&csi=1&referrer=https://www.google.com

    We have seen an increase here but so far not much. Best wishes for this challenging time everyone.

    Thanks for the insight. Scandalous really...or maybe negligent....
  • It should have been shortened seeing as it was clear who was going to win after a couple of weeks. It has harmed the Conservative party to boot.
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  • se9addick said:
    MrWalker said:
    Let's keep trying years more of the second option across CL.
    Law of averages suggests hatred will eventually triumph?
    Depends who your hatred is directed at…
    No, it really doesn't.
  • edited August 2022
    seth plum said:
    This is an interesting article in the Sunday Times exploring polling.
    Polling is one of the indicators of 'mindsets' which I referenced above.
    The article does not resolve in any particular definitive way, but I would say it is worthwhile in an attempt to explore thinking in the nation, and that same kind of thinking previously, and how election results might be understood. 

    https://archive.ph/CUiNG
    Good article @seth plum , thanks for posting.

    The Tory mindset can change, people who know me would never have believed that I would ever change my views, however the mess made by the current Government, on virtually  everything, has certainly made that happen.
  • seth plum said:
    This is an interesting article in the Sunday Times exploring polling.
    Polling is one of the indicators of 'mindsets' which I referenced above.
    The article does not resolve in any particular definitive way, but I would say it is worthwhile in an attempt to explore thinking in the nation, and that same kind of thinking previously, and how election results might be understood. 

    https://archive.ph/CUiNG
    Good article. Thanks for posting 
  • Chaz Hill said:
    Hardly anything in this country is in U.K. hands, even Charlton are owned by foreigners! 
  • se9addick said:
    Chaz Hill said:
    Hardly anything in this country is in U.K. hands, even Charlton are owned by foreigners! 


    ‘Global Britain’ I guess. Everybody welcome as long as you have ‘loads of money’.
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  • Being reported that Truss is seriously considering a 5% cut to VAT saving an average household £1300 per year. How is this £1300 going to make enough difference when if the cap is not frozen we’re currently looking at yearly energy costs of £6000 pa in the spring.  It’s said this will cost £35 billion. Sounds like a cheap and insufficient intervention. 
    for most people VAT cuts only apply to buying stuff from their wages/salaries /pensions and does not increase their income .. if after paying all your bills and mostly non VATed food you have no money left, a VAT cut is useless .. is good only to stimulate the retail economy
  • Being reported that Truss is seriously considering a 5% cut to VAT saving an average household £1300 per year. How is this £1300 going to make enough difference when if the cap is not frozen we’re currently looking at yearly energy costs of £6000 pa in the spring.  It’s said this will cost £35 billion. Sounds like a cheap and insufficient intervention. 
    for most people VAT cuts only apply to buying stuff from their wages/salaries /pensions and does not increase their income .. if after paying all your bills and mostly non VATed food you have no money left, a VAT cut is useless .. is good only to stimulate the retail economy
    Absolutely this! 

    If most of your money goes on items that do not attract VAT you can't benefit from a VAT cut. When we have people who are having to make decisions between heating and eating, they can't afford other 'luxuries', therefore a 5% VAT cut is of little use.
  • A very good read about why we are paying so much for energy in the UK.

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There is much talk happening on how to solve the so-called cost-of-living crisis. Most of it fails to recognise that the problem is much bigger than that: the whole economy is in meltdown. None seems to address the cost of energy itself. A thread on the last, vital, point….</p>&mdash; Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) <a href="">August 29, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
  • A very good read about why we are paying so much for energy in the UK.

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There is much talk happening on how to solve the so-called cost-of-living crisis. Most of it fails to recognise that the problem is much bigger than that: the whole economy is in meltdown. None seems to address the cost of energy itself. A thread on the last, vital, point….</p>&mdash; Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) <a href="">August 29, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
    I like reading this guys stuff, to my ignorant eyes every time he posts something I’m in total agreement but I’m never sure if that’s just me living in my echo chamber. I’ve actually stopped looking at Twitter over the last two weeks as it just depresses/stresses me out too much constantly reading about how we’re on the edge of oblivion. It’s actually been good for my mental health to be honest.  
  • Article from 2015 when the Government decided to scrap the zero carbon homes plan. How much better off the owners of new houses built since 2015 would be now, if all of them had been built with greener forms of energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/10/uk-scraps-zero-carbon-home-target
  • Being reported that Truss is seriously considering a 5% cut to VAT saving an average household £1300 per year. How is this £1300 going to make enough difference when if the cap is not frozen we’re currently looking at yearly energy costs of £6000 pa in the spring.  It’s said this will cost £35 billion. Sounds like a cheap and insufficient intervention. 
    for most people VAT cuts only apply to buying stuff from their wages/salaries /pensions and does not increase their income .. if after paying all your bills and mostly non VATed food you have no money left, a VAT cut is useless .. is good only to stimulate the retail economy
    Absolutely this
  • Article from 2015 when the Government decided to scrap the zero carbon homes plan. How much better off the owners of new houses built since 2015 would be now, if all of them had been built with greener forms of energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/10/uk-scraps-zero-carbon-home-target
    Not too far from where I currently live there is an enormous housing development called City Fields. It’s a 375 hectare space with developments by all the usual housing builders including Redrow, Miller, Bellway, Avant. Some phases are built and have people living in them and others are still under construction. I pass by it when I’m going to work and it occurred to me that I can’t see one house anywhere that’s got solar panels fitted. Not one. That’s not to say there are not some somewhere but I’m betting if there are, which I doubt if I’m honest there are not many. This development has over 1000 homes and I think it’s a disgrace that newly built homes are not being made to be constructed with at least solar energy. This crisis has reached boiling point but the need for new developments to have built in solar should have been mandatory for at least five years. 
    Absolutely.
    If you look at YouTube at van conversions where more and more people are doing ‘stealth’ living off grid, nearly all of them install modest solar panels.
    Every single new build should have some kind of solar energy conduit, surely that is a no brainer?
  • edited August 2022
    seth plum said:
    Article from 2015 when the Government decided to scrap the zero carbon homes plan. How much better off the owners of new houses built since 2015 would be now, if all of them had been built with greener forms of energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/10/uk-scraps-zero-carbon-home-target
    Not too far from where I currently live there is an enormous housing development called City Fields. It’s a 375 hectare space with developments by all the usual housing builders including Redrow, Miller, Bellway, Avant. Some phases are built and have people living in them and others are still under construction. I pass by it when I’m going to work and it occurred to me that I can’t see one house anywhere that’s got solar panels fitted. Not one. That’s not to say there are not some somewhere but I’m betting if there are, which I doubt if I’m honest there are not many. This development has over 1000 homes and I think it’s a disgrace that newly built homes are not being made to be constructed with at least solar energy. This crisis has reached boiling point but the need for new developments to have built in solar should have been mandatory for at least five years. 
    Absolutely.
    If you look at YouTube at van conversions where more and more people are doing ‘stealth’ living off grid, nearly all of them install modest solar panels.
    Every single new build should have some kind of solar energy conduit, surely that is a no brainer?
    I’m guessing that adding solar panals adds to the constructors cost but adds little or nothing in the price of the completed house 🤷🏻‍♂️
  • seth plum said:
    Article from 2015 when the Government decided to scrap the zero carbon homes plan. How much better off the owners of new houses built since 2015 would be now, if all of them had been built with greener forms of energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/10/uk-scraps-zero-carbon-home-target
    Not too far from where I currently live there is an enormous housing development called City Fields. It’s a 375 hectare space with developments by all the usual housing builders including Redrow, Miller, Bellway, Avant. Some phases are built and have people living in them and others are still under construction. I pass by it when I’m going to work and it occurred to me that I can’t see one house anywhere that’s got solar panels fitted. Not one. That’s not to say there are not some somewhere but I’m betting if there are, which I doubt if I’m honest there are not many. This development has over 1000 homes and I think it’s a disgrace that newly built homes are not being made to be constructed with at least solar energy. This crisis has reached boiling point but the need for new developments to have built in solar should have been mandatory for at least five years. 
    Absolutely.
    If you look at YouTube at van conversions where more and more people are doing ‘stealth’ living off grid, nearly all of them install modest solar panels.
    Every single new build should have some kind of solar energy conduit, surely that is a no brainer?
    I’m guessing that adding solar panals adds to the constructors cost but adds little or nothing in the price of the completed house 🤷🏻‍♂️
    I can't find a link to an article I read about using all forms of energy in new houses, but it suggested that it would add about £10K to the cost of a new house to put in things like heat pumps, solar panels, geo thermal heating and better insulation. The developers didn't want to do it because it would eat into their profits, and as the Tory party is a beneficiary of donations from developers, they of course didn't enforce it. 

    Even if the costs of greener energy were to be paid by the buyer of a new property, with house price increases and cheaper energy bills, it would pay for itself. 
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