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Adkins Out? - Match Thread
Comments
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Let's really crank up the conspiracy theories ... if you are Southall etc, how about ducking all the criticism and vitriol by arranging for a White Knight to appear over the horizon.Arsenetatters said:J BLOCK said:Getting more pissed off at TS by the day. Why is Adkins still in charge of this football club.I can't shake off the feeling that something bad is going on behind the scenes.Most of us fell for Southall at first, and while I don't think TS is in the slightest bit dodgy I do feel we may have got far too excited about him. Let's face it, he did get us out of a dreadful situation but at the expense of separating the club from the Valley. A bit like Southall, he arrived at a time when we were desperate and said all the right things. I'm not sure what to think right now, and maybe I've got my conspiracy theory head on, but I'm anxious about the future under Tommy.
A White Knight who says all the right things, who wins over the fanbase and who, a year later, has got us into a worse position.
Southall wins.
PS I don't believe this for a minute.
Sandgaard is a White Knight ... riding Albert Steptoe's horse.1 -
Ok so, If being realistic a decent manager who would have known his best 11 by now and I think the squad would 10000% be more fitter the winnable games this squad is easily capable of winning that we didn't:Cafc43v3r said:
To be 9th you would have to double our points. Compare it to last season. Keeper worse, left back worse, left winger worse, a massive JFC sized gap in the middle that hasn't been filled at all. No game changer coming off the bench which, how ever you dress it up, would have left us in the bottom half last season.Addick_8 said:
It really is. This squad is easily good enough for 6-12th in League 1. You can’t keep blaming recruitment and not Adkins. We have a decent squad for the third division of English football.Cafc43v3r said:
Is it? To be 6-12th we would pretty much have to have had double the points we have got. I could make an argument for 4 or 5 more points, but not 9-10 with the players we have got.Addick_8 said:
Agreed we are currently in deep shit. However, this current squad is easily a top 6-12th squad in the league. No way should this group of players be where they are. They are partly to blame but buck stops with Adkins.carly burn said:Bailey said:
It's not, in my opinion, that it doesn't suit the players it's that he doesn't have the players that have defensive nous to play the system. Corey Blackett Taylor does not understand tracking back, maybe one of the reasons he is at this level. Lee is once again a purely offensive player as is Kirk. Contrast that with someone like Miller, who clearly knew how to defend and attack, Pratley and the sorely missed Forster Caskey. Players like Dobson and Morgan are still learning the game but will be very good players but not yet. For me Adkins problem is that he is stuck to a system that is not producing results and refuses to alter that system, look at the substitution of Lee on Saturday, he bought Corey Blackett Taylor on rather than Stockley, he then changed it positionally twice after that.Cafc43v3r said:
It's a good question. I see a lot of comments that it's the formation that's the problem or doesn't suit the players we have. Every club in this division, and the one above, play either a flat back four and 1 central striker or 3/5 at the back. The very rare examples of 442 use either a diamond or box 4 rather than the flat 4 of yesteryear.CL_Phantom said:killerandflash said:I still think that with a change of formation, we can be more competitive, as there are enough options in the squad. Our 4231/433 isn't working as we're being slaughtered down the flanks. With 4 attacking players who can't defend on the pitch, it can easily look more like 424
Change to a Curbs/Powell 442 or 4411 with one winger and 3 midfielders and we look more solid, e.g.
Keeper
RB Lavelle Famewo LB
Clare/Morgan Arter/Dobson Gilbey/Morgan CBT/Leko
Lee/Leko/Washington
Stockley/Davison
In no way excusing Adkins, but is the constant use of the 433/ 4231 a requirement? We've heard of the pathway plan which sounds exactly like the saints model, a clear pathway from the youngest age group to first team, all play to the same formation and style, players and coaches are scouted and brought in to fit to the club's vision.
I guess a question.to ask is, are we paying 433/4231 because that's what Adkins wants or do we have Adkins because thats what the club wants - 433/4231, sound similar yet pretty different... Look at Adkins' past jobs in particular the League one seasons and he mainly played... yep, 442...add in the comments that Henry wrote up from the teams chat the other day, about what's needed for a league one squad he said:
Tall players - as lot of goals come from set pieces
A captian - for those tough gamesWarriors - for those tough games
Athletic players to get through a 40+ game seasonSettled sideLeft and right set piece takers - as a lot of goals come from set pieces
Pacey player
20+ goal a season man
Sounds like the basics of a 442 to me...
And from that list of league one must haves we signed what?
One tall player - Stockley
Pacey player - CBT/LekoAgain, not excusing him as if his hands are a bit tied*, then he needs to have a word and say something to the powers that be rather than act a complete mug and go with it - that's still stackable as that's avoiding our issues in the hope it'll click.
* Not trying to add to the current list of CL conspiracy theories facts:
Roddy keeping Adkins in job because they're old buddies from when they wasn't at Reading together
Roddy not telling TS how bad it really is because TS has no way of seeing that for himself.
Adkins has lost the dressing room because he's far too nice and the players don't respect him because of it.
JJ and Euell have no say because Adkins Mr far too nice immediately shuts them down and bullies them into silence.
Adkins channels his inner Fraye and only gives instructions such as "play football"
DJ threw a dildo called Adkins at the dugout on Saturday.
We played it at the end of the season last season and it worked. Kirk probably hasn't played in any other formation in his career, Leko and CBT would have played it a youth level, Arter has played it most of his career. It shouldn't bother Lavelle in his position. Lee played it at both Luton and Oxford.
All the summer recruitment should have been based on 4231/433 because that's what the manager wanted. It probably was but, to me, it looks like it was more based on data and "good players" rather than how they fit in to the team. Kirk and Lee are good examples of this, they are very different types of players to the ones we had in those roles last season.I agree. Adkins has to go but this squad is no great shakes either. A terrible recruitment drive in the summer.We are in deep shit
Last season we had a 6-12th team, a couple of slight improvements would have made it a comfortable top 6 team. We haven't improved a single position (maybe right wing and back up RCB at a push). Every other new player is worse than the one they replaced, in the starting 11.
Add in the fact last season, for large parts, we were as poor as we are now, the big difference was Aneke turned defeats into draws and draws into wins.
The whole place is rotten.In October we:
Don’t look fit.. all
Manager doesn’t know his best 11
Making 5/6 changes per game
Look incredibly easy to beat
Have no identity or style of play
Players in wrong position, i.e Gilbey CDM, Morgan in Number 10.Who’s fault is that.. just recruitment?It’s a shambles. The squad is being managed terribly hence why it’s sitting in the bottom 3 of league 1.
You seriously going to say that you don’t think this squad isn’t capable of let’s say.. 9th at this point? Come on now. Stop deflecting it away from Adkins. I like the guy, but it very clearly isn’t working with him.
I am not deflecting it away from Adkins I am saying that just sacking him and plugging someone else in with the same players and same set up wouldn't magically have doubled our points total. I agree we should be doing better but I don't agree that we should be comfortably top half.
There is so much rotten, some of which is clearly Adkins fault, some of clearly isn't and some that we don't actually know who's fault it is.
He got the sub massively wrong on Saturday but outside of the starting 11 there wasn't anyone who is banging the door down to start a game.
There will be changes tomorrow night, regardless of who the manager is but the players that come in for the ones that were shit on Saturday will be the ones that were shit 2 or 3 games ago.
Bolton (H),
Cheltenham (H)
MK Dons (A)
Portsmouth (H) -(they was bang out of form when we played them)
Lincon (A)
Out of those 15 points we got... 1. This current squad is very cable of getting more than 1 point return from those games. We should very easily have got at least 10-11 points from those fixtures. 11 points would put us currently 6th.. at worst.
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If TS won't or can't affort to sack Adkins and or Roddy, how long has he got left on his contract?
That to me is the worst senario, that we have to keep him until the end of it.
This I'm sure is all about money both on TS and Adkins sides, surely he knows
that he will not get another job in football!0 -
He will though.Silverdreammachine said:If TS won't or can't affort to sack Adkins and or Roddy, how long has he got left on his contract?
That to me is the worst senario, that we have to keep him until the end of it.
This I'm sure is all about money both on TS and Adkins sides, surely he knows
that he will not get another job in football!
Plenty of managers with a lot worse records do.0 -
I suspect he can afford to do it, but by doing so it is an admission of failure. He probably thought through talks with Roddy and Adkins that we were on to something that gave us an advantage over other clubs. Football is littered with people trying to be clever. And sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. It ought to be dawning on Sandgaard that our clever plan was wrong but you can sort of understand how he might be hoping against hope it can be turned round.3
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Remember we had 3 fit central midfielders against MK Dons and that's where we lost the game. Dobson, Clare and Morgan were chasing shadows. It was real men against boys stuff. Gunter at left back etc etc.Addick_8 said:
Ok, so let's take a look at that then. If being realistic, a decent manager who would have known his best 11 by now and I think the squad would 10000% be more fitter the winnable games this squad is easily capable of winning that we didn't:Cafc43v3r said:
To be 9th you would have to double our points. Compare it to last season. Keeper worse, left back worse, left winger worse, a massive JFC sized gap in the middle that hasn't been filled at all. No game changer coming off the bench which, how ever you dress it up, would have left us in the bottom half last season.Addick_8 said:
It really is. This squad is easily good enough for 6-12th in League 1. You can’t keep blaming recruitment and not Adkins. We have a decent squad for the third division of English football.Cafc43v3r said:
Is it? To be 6-12th we would pretty much have to have had double the points we have got. I could make an argument for 4 or 5 more points, but not 9-10 with the players we have got.Addick_8 said:
Agreed we are currently in deep shit. However, this current squad is easily a top 6-12th squad in the league. No way should this group of players be where they are. They are partly to blame but buck stops with Adkins.carly burn said:Bailey said:
It's not, in my opinion, that it doesn't suit the players it's that he doesn't have the players that have defensive nous to play the system. Corey Blackett Taylor does not understand tracking back, maybe one of the reasons he is at this level. Lee is once again a purely offensive player as is Kirk. Contrast that with someone like Miller, who clearly knew how to defend and attack, Pratley and the sorely missed Forster Caskey. Players like Dobson and Morgan are still learning the game but will be very good players but not yet. For me Adkins problem is that he is stuck to a system that is not producing results and refuses to alter that system, look at the substitution of Lee on Saturday, he bought Corey Blackett Taylor on rather than Stockley, he then changed it positionally twice after that.Cafc43v3r said:
It's a good question. I see a lot of comments that it's the formation that's the problem or doesn't suit the players we have. Every club in this division, and the one above, play either a flat back four and 1 central striker or 3/5 at the back. The very rare examples of 442 use either a diamond or box 4 rather than the flat 4 of yesteryear.CL_Phantom said:killerandflash said:I still think that with a change of formation, we can be more competitive, as there are enough options in the squad. Our 4231/433 isn't working as we're being slaughtered down the flanks. With 4 attacking players who can't defend on the pitch, it can easily look more like 424
Change to a Curbs/Powell 442 or 4411 with one winger and 3 midfielders and we look more solid, e.g.
Keeper
RB Lavelle Famewo LB
Clare/Morgan Arter/Dobson Gilbey/Morgan CBT/Leko
Lee/Leko/Washington
Stockley/Davison
In no way excusing Adkins, but is the constant use of the 433/ 4231 a requirement? We've heard of the pathway plan which sounds exactly like the saints model, a clear pathway from the youngest age group to first team, all play to the same formation and style, players and coaches are scouted and brought in to fit to the club's vision.
I guess a question.to ask is, are we paying 433/4231 because that's what Adkins wants or do we have Adkins because thats what the club wants - 433/4231, sound similar yet pretty different... Look at Adkins' past jobs in particular the League one seasons and he mainly played... yep, 442...add in the comments that Henry wrote up from the teams chat the other day, about what's needed for a league one squad he said:
Tall players - as lot of goals come from set pieces
A captian - for those tough gamesWarriors - for those tough games
Athletic players to get through a 40+ game seasonSettled sideLeft and right set piece takers - as a lot of goals come from set pieces
Pacey player
20+ goal a season man
Sounds like the basics of a 442 to me...
And from that list of league one must haves we signed what?
One tall player - Stockley
Pacey player - CBT/LekoAgain, not excusing him as if his hands are a bit tied*, then he needs to have a word and say something to the powers that be rather than act a complete mug and go with it - that's still stackable as that's avoiding our issues in the hope it'll click.
* Not trying to add to the current list of CL conspiracy theories facts:
Roddy keeping Adkins in job because they're old buddies from when they wasn't at Reading together
Roddy not telling TS how bad it really is because TS has no way of seeing that for himself.
Adkins has lost the dressing room because he's far too nice and the players don't respect him because of it.
JJ and Euell have no say because Adkins Mr far too nice immediately shuts them down and bullies them into silence.
Adkins channels his inner Fraye and only gives instructions such as "play football"
DJ threw a dildo called Adkins at the dugout on Saturday.
We played it at the end of the season last season and it worked. Kirk probably hasn't played in any other formation in his career, Leko and CBT would have played it a youth level, Arter has played it most of his career. It shouldn't bother Lavelle in his position. Lee played it at both Luton and Oxford.
All the summer recruitment should have been based on 4231/433 because that's what the manager wanted. It probably was but, to me, it looks like it was more based on data and "good players" rather than how they fit in to the team. Kirk and Lee are good examples of this, they are very different types of players to the ones we had in those roles last season.I agree. Adkins has to go but this squad is no great shakes either. A terrible recruitment drive in the summer.We are in deep shit
Last season we had a 6-12th team, a couple of slight improvements would have made it a comfortable top 6 team. We haven't improved a single position (maybe right wing and back up RCB at a push). Every other new player is worse than the one they replaced, in the starting 11.
Add in the fact last season, for large parts, we were as poor as we are now, the big difference was Aneke turned defeats into draws and draws into wins.
The whole place is rotten.In October we:
Don’t look fit.. all
Manager doesn’t know his best 11
Making 5/6 changes per game
Look incredibly easy to beat
Have no identity or style of play
Players in wrong position, i.e Gilbey CDM, Morgan in Number 10.Who’s fault is that.. just recruitment?It’s a shambles. The squad is being managed terribly hence why it’s sitting in the bottom 3 of league 1.
You seriously going to say that you don’t think this squad isn’t capable of let’s say.. 9th at this point? Come on now. Stop deflecting it away from Adkins. I like the guy, but it very clearly isn’t working with him.
I am not deflecting it away from Adkins I am saying that just sacking him and plugging someone else in with the same players and same set up wouldn't magically have doubled our points total. I agree we should be doing better but I don't agree that we should be comfortably top half.
There is so much rotten, some of which is clearly Adkins fault, some of clearly isn't and some that we don't actually know who's fault it is.
He got the sub massively wrong on Saturday but outside of the starting 11 there wasn't anyone who is banging the door down to start a game.
There will be changes tomorrow night, regardless of who the manager is but the players that come in for the ones that were shit on Saturday will be the ones that were shit 2 or 3 games ago.
Bolton (H),
Cheltenham (H)
MK Dons (A)
Portsmouth (H) -(they was bang out of form when we played them)
Lincon (A)
Out of those 15 points we got... 1. This current squad is very cable of getting more than 1 point return from those games. We should very easily have got at least 10-11 points from those fixtures. 11 points would put us currently 6th.. at worst.
The team we had for the first 5 games was woefully short. Claiming we should have got anything from that, with the players we had is a bit of a stretch.
He knew his best 11, it was pretty much his only 11 and it was shit. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise.
This team is worse than last seasons and the league is better. When most of our games are decided by 1 goal either way it doesn't take much change in terms of quality to turn draws into defeats and wins into draws.
Anyway we both agree we should be doing better, we both agree that Adkins has to carry the can.
Do you honestly think that sacking Adkins and plugging someone else into his job and changing nothing else would make us a play off team?2 -
I get the feeling, as I did when he let Bowyer go on longer than he perhaps should have, that he doesn't want to be seen as a trigger-happy, 6 managers in 4 years, 'doesn't know about football' etc type owner, especially as RD got knocked for the same thing.MuttleyCAFC said:I suspect he can afford to do it, but by doing so it is an admission of failure. He probably thought through talks with Roddy and Adkins that we were on to something that gave us an advantage over other clubs. Football is littered with people trying to be clever. And sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. It ought to be dawning on Sandgaard that our clever plan was wrong but you can sort of understand how he might be hoping against hope it can be turned round.0 -
We have not been on the end of a bad beating like some teams which is a positive!
beat Stanley and the. We can go on a run!5 -
Come on now how old is he.. 6 ffs, admission of failure!..this is a man who has built his reputation pre Charlton based on facing up to the big decisions and making choices, if he has got it wrong then he has to put it right, and the sooner the better,,let's face it "If things don't change they will stay the same" as the saying goes, i'm afraid the time for dithering about has long since passed, and we need him to stand up and make the changes now, hoping things will turn around can not be the solution.MuttleyCAFC said:I suspect he can afford to do it, but by doing so it is an admission of failure. He probably thought through talks with Roddy and Adkins that we were on to something that gave us an advantage over other clubs. Football is littered with people trying to be clever. And sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. It ought to be dawning on Sandgaard that our clever plan was wrong but you can sort of understand how he might be hoping against hope it can be turned round.2 -
This team and management set up does not have a winning run in them, laughable to suggest it will/could happen.Valleysarr said:We have not been on the end of a bad beating like some teams which is a positive!
beat Stanley and the. We can go on a run!1 - Sponsored links:
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I don’t understand this mantra of assuming we’re better than where we are with this squad and as such being able to beat the above.Addick_8 said:
Ok so, If being realistic a decent manager who would have known his best 11 by now and I think the squad would 10000% be more fitter the winnable games this squad is easily capable of winning that we didn't:Cafc43v3r said:
To be 9th you would have to double our points. Compare it to last season. Keeper worse, left back worse, left winger worse, a massive JFC sized gap in the middle that hasn't been filled at all. No game changer coming off the bench which, how ever you dress it up, would have left us in the bottom half last season.Addick_8 said:
It really is. This squad is easily good enough for 6-12th in League 1. You can’t keep blaming recruitment and not Adkins. We have a decent squad for the third division of English football.Cafc43v3r said:
Is it? To be 6-12th we would pretty much have to have had double the points we have got. I could make an argument for 4 or 5 more points, but not 9-10 with the players we have got.Addick_8 said:
Agreed we are currently in deep shit. However, this current squad is easily a top 6-12th squad in the league. No way should this group of players be where they are. They are partly to blame but buck stops with Adkins.carly burn said:Bailey said:
It's not, in my opinion, that it doesn't suit the players it's that he doesn't have the players that have defensive nous to play the system. Corey Blackett Taylor does not understand tracking back, maybe one of the reasons he is at this level. Lee is once again a purely offensive player as is Kirk. Contrast that with someone like Miller, who clearly knew how to defend and attack, Pratley and the sorely missed Forster Caskey. Players like Dobson and Morgan are still learning the game but will be very good players but not yet. For me Adkins problem is that he is stuck to a system that is not producing results and refuses to alter that system, look at the substitution of Lee on Saturday, he bought Corey Blackett Taylor on rather than Stockley, he then changed it positionally twice after that.Cafc43v3r said:
It's a good question. I see a lot of comments that it's the formation that's the problem or doesn't suit the players we have. Every club in this division, and the one above, play either a flat back four and 1 central striker or 3/5 at the back. The very rare examples of 442 use either a diamond or box 4 rather than the flat 4 of yesteryear.CL_Phantom said:killerandflash said:I still think that with a change of formation, we can be more competitive, as there are enough options in the squad. Our 4231/433 isn't working as we're being slaughtered down the flanks. With 4 attacking players who can't defend on the pitch, it can easily look more like 424
Change to a Curbs/Powell 442 or 4411 with one winger and 3 midfielders and we look more solid, e.g.
Keeper
RB Lavelle Famewo LB
Clare/Morgan Arter/Dobson Gilbey/Morgan CBT/Leko
Lee/Leko/Washington
Stockley/Davison
In no way excusing Adkins, but is the constant use of the 433/ 4231 a requirement? We've heard of the pathway plan which sounds exactly like the saints model, a clear pathway from the youngest age group to first team, all play to the same formation and style, players and coaches are scouted and brought in to fit to the club's vision.
I guess a question.to ask is, are we paying 433/4231 because that's what Adkins wants or do we have Adkins because thats what the club wants - 433/4231, sound similar yet pretty different... Look at Adkins' past jobs in particular the League one seasons and he mainly played... yep, 442...add in the comments that Henry wrote up from the teams chat the other day, about what's needed for a league one squad he said:
Tall players - as lot of goals come from set pieces
A captian - for those tough gamesWarriors - for those tough games
Athletic players to get through a 40+ game seasonSettled sideLeft and right set piece takers - as a lot of goals come from set pieces
Pacey player
20+ goal a season man
Sounds like the basics of a 442 to me...
And from that list of league one must haves we signed what?
One tall player - Stockley
Pacey player - CBT/LekoAgain, not excusing him as if his hands are a bit tied*, then he needs to have a word and say something to the powers that be rather than act a complete mug and go with it - that's still stackable as that's avoiding our issues in the hope it'll click.
* Not trying to add to the current list of CL conspiracy theories facts:
Roddy keeping Adkins in job because they're old buddies from when they wasn't at Reading together
Roddy not telling TS how bad it really is because TS has no way of seeing that for himself.
Adkins has lost the dressing room because he's far too nice and the players don't respect him because of it.
JJ and Euell have no say because Adkins Mr far too nice immediately shuts them down and bullies them into silence.
Adkins channels his inner Fraye and only gives instructions such as "play football"
DJ threw a dildo called Adkins at the dugout on Saturday.
We played it at the end of the season last season and it worked. Kirk probably hasn't played in any other formation in his career, Leko and CBT would have played it a youth level, Arter has played it most of his career. It shouldn't bother Lavelle in his position. Lee played it at both Luton and Oxford.
All the summer recruitment should have been based on 4231/433 because that's what the manager wanted. It probably was but, to me, it looks like it was more based on data and "good players" rather than how they fit in to the team. Kirk and Lee are good examples of this, they are very different types of players to the ones we had in those roles last season.I agree. Adkins has to go but this squad is no great shakes either. A terrible recruitment drive in the summer.We are in deep shit
Last season we had a 6-12th team, a couple of slight improvements would have made it a comfortable top 6 team. We haven't improved a single position (maybe right wing and back up RCB at a push). Every other new player is worse than the one they replaced, in the starting 11.
Add in the fact last season, for large parts, we were as poor as we are now, the big difference was Aneke turned defeats into draws and draws into wins.
The whole place is rotten.In October we:
Don’t look fit.. all
Manager doesn’t know his best 11
Making 5/6 changes per game
Look incredibly easy to beat
Have no identity or style of play
Players in wrong position, i.e Gilbey CDM, Morgan in Number 10.Who’s fault is that.. just recruitment?It’s a shambles. The squad is being managed terribly hence why it’s sitting in the bottom 3 of league 1.
You seriously going to say that you don’t think this squad isn’t capable of let’s say.. 9th at this point? Come on now. Stop deflecting it away from Adkins. I like the guy, but it very clearly isn’t working with him.
I am not deflecting it away from Adkins I am saying that just sacking him and plugging someone else in with the same players and same set up wouldn't magically have doubled our points total. I agree we should be doing better but I don't agree that we should be comfortably top half.
There is so much rotten, some of which is clearly Adkins fault, some of clearly isn't and some that we don't actually know who's fault it is.
He got the sub massively wrong on Saturday but outside of the starting 11 there wasn't anyone who is banging the door down to start a game.
There will be changes tomorrow night, regardless of who the manager is but the players that come in for the ones that were shit on Saturday will be the ones that were shit 2 or 3 games ago.
Bolton (H),
Cheltenham (H)
MK Dons (A)
Portsmouth (H) -(they was bang out of form when we played them)
Lincon (A)
Out of those 15 points we got... 1. This current squad is very cable of getting more than 1 point return from those games. We should very easily have got at least 10-11 points from those fixtures. 11 points would put us currently 6th.. at worst.
Cheltenham were far better than us, as were Pompey who let us back in by taking the foot of the gas. Lincoln could’ve won by more were they more aggressive, and most of our fans chanted ‘you’re not fit to wear the shirt’ after MK Dons. Bolton’s late goals flattered the score line a tad, but we were terrible after they equalised.
I agree that someone (anyone), would probably have us a bit higher than NA, but the players also need to look at themselves and we need to stop seeing them as good players.
Gunter - crap
Matthews - mediocre
Purrington - mediocre
Famewo - gone backwards
Lavelle - looks dodgy to me
Gilbey - massively overrated off the run of games at the end of last season, a great player to point and tell others what to do on the pitch, but floats in and out individually
Leko - can he be bothered
DJ - I’ve seen millions of wingers like him over the years, doesn’t stand out at all
Kirk - has the physique and presence of a small child
Stockley - gone backwards
Morgan - gone backwards, Hollywood balls and no substance
Watson - speaks volumes about our plight he seems to be the player in CM that is generally first choice
Pearce - the old grappler
I might be being harsh and I probably don’t see it like a lot of others, but I think we’ve got a sea of mediocre professionals and a manager without a clue.2 -
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But the point is surely are they playing badly/going backwards becuase something isn't right under Adkins, and a new manager could reverse that?cabbles said:
I don’t understand this mantra of assuming we’re better than where we are with this squad and as such being able to beat the above.Addick_8 said:
Ok so, If being realistic a decent manager who would have known his best 11 by now and I think the squad would 10000% be more fitter the winnable games this squad is easily capable of winning that we didn't:Cafc43v3r said:
To be 9th you would have to double our points. Compare it to last season. Keeper worse, left back worse, left winger worse, a massive JFC sized gap in the middle that hasn't been filled at all. No game changer coming off the bench which, how ever you dress it up, would have left us in the bottom half last season.Addick_8 said:
It really is. This squad is easily good enough for 6-12th in League 1. You can’t keep blaming recruitment and not Adkins. We have a decent squad for the third division of English football.Cafc43v3r said:
Is it? To be 6-12th we would pretty much have to have had double the points we have got. I could make an argument for 4 or 5 more points, but not 9-10 with the players we have got.Addick_8 said:
Agreed we are currently in deep shit. However, this current squad is easily a top 6-12th squad in the league. No way should this group of players be where they are. They are partly to blame but buck stops with Adkins.carly burn said:Bailey said:
It's not, in my opinion, that it doesn't suit the players it's that he doesn't have the players that have defensive nous to play the system. Corey Blackett Taylor does not understand tracking back, maybe one of the reasons he is at this level. Lee is once again a purely offensive player as is Kirk. Contrast that with someone like Miller, who clearly knew how to defend and attack, Pratley and the sorely missed Forster Caskey. Players like Dobson and Morgan are still learning the game but will be very good players but not yet. For me Adkins problem is that he is stuck to a system that is not producing results and refuses to alter that system, look at the substitution of Lee on Saturday, he bought Corey Blackett Taylor on rather than Stockley, he then changed it positionally twice after that.Cafc43v3r said:
It's a good question. I see a lot of comments that it's the formation that's the problem or doesn't suit the players we have. Every club in this division, and the one above, play either a flat back four and 1 central striker or 3/5 at the back. The very rare examples of 442 use either a diamond or box 4 rather than the flat 4 of yesteryear.CL_Phantom said:killerandflash said:I still think that with a change of formation, we can be more competitive, as there are enough options in the squad. Our 4231/433 isn't working as we're being slaughtered down the flanks. With 4 attacking players who can't defend on the pitch, it can easily look more like 424
Change to a Curbs/Powell 442 or 4411 with one winger and 3 midfielders and we look more solid, e.g.
Keeper
RB Lavelle Famewo LB
Clare/Morgan Arter/Dobson Gilbey/Morgan CBT/Leko
Lee/Leko/Washington
Stockley/Davison
In no way excusing Adkins, but is the constant use of the 433/ 4231 a requirement? We've heard of the pathway plan which sounds exactly like the saints model, a clear pathway from the youngest age group to first team, all play to the same formation and style, players and coaches are scouted and brought in to fit to the club's vision.
I guess a question.to ask is, are we paying 433/4231 because that's what Adkins wants or do we have Adkins because thats what the club wants - 433/4231, sound similar yet pretty different... Look at Adkins' past jobs in particular the League one seasons and he mainly played... yep, 442...add in the comments that Henry wrote up from the teams chat the other day, about what's needed for a league one squad he said:
Tall players - as lot of goals come from set pieces
A captian - for those tough gamesWarriors - for those tough games
Athletic players to get through a 40+ game seasonSettled sideLeft and right set piece takers - as a lot of goals come from set pieces
Pacey player
20+ goal a season man
Sounds like the basics of a 442 to me...
And from that list of league one must haves we signed what?
One tall player - Stockley
Pacey player - CBT/LekoAgain, not excusing him as if his hands are a bit tied*, then he needs to have a word and say something to the powers that be rather than act a complete mug and go with it - that's still stackable as that's avoiding our issues in the hope it'll click.
* Not trying to add to the current list of CL conspiracy theories facts:
Roddy keeping Adkins in job because they're old buddies from when they wasn't at Reading together
Roddy not telling TS how bad it really is because TS has no way of seeing that for himself.
Adkins has lost the dressing room because he's far too nice and the players don't respect him because of it.
JJ and Euell have no say because Adkins Mr far too nice immediately shuts them down and bullies them into silence.
Adkins channels his inner Fraye and only gives instructions such as "play football"
DJ threw a dildo called Adkins at the dugout on Saturday.
We played it at the end of the season last season and it worked. Kirk probably hasn't played in any other formation in his career, Leko and CBT would have played it a youth level, Arter has played it most of his career. It shouldn't bother Lavelle in his position. Lee played it at both Luton and Oxford.
All the summer recruitment should have been based on 4231/433 because that's what the manager wanted. It probably was but, to me, it looks like it was more based on data and "good players" rather than how they fit in to the team. Kirk and Lee are good examples of this, they are very different types of players to the ones we had in those roles last season.I agree. Adkins has to go but this squad is no great shakes either. A terrible recruitment drive in the summer.We are in deep shit
Last season we had a 6-12th team, a couple of slight improvements would have made it a comfortable top 6 team. We haven't improved a single position (maybe right wing and back up RCB at a push). Every other new player is worse than the one they replaced, in the starting 11.
Add in the fact last season, for large parts, we were as poor as we are now, the big difference was Aneke turned defeats into draws and draws into wins.
The whole place is rotten.In October we:
Don’t look fit.. all
Manager doesn’t know his best 11
Making 5/6 changes per game
Look incredibly easy to beat
Have no identity or style of play
Players in wrong position, i.e Gilbey CDM, Morgan in Number 10.Who’s fault is that.. just recruitment?It’s a shambles. The squad is being managed terribly hence why it’s sitting in the bottom 3 of league 1.
You seriously going to say that you don’t think this squad isn’t capable of let’s say.. 9th at this point? Come on now. Stop deflecting it away from Adkins. I like the guy, but it very clearly isn’t working with him.
I am not deflecting it away from Adkins I am saying that just sacking him and plugging someone else in with the same players and same set up wouldn't magically have doubled our points total. I agree we should be doing better but I don't agree that we should be comfortably top half.
There is so much rotten, some of which is clearly Adkins fault, some of clearly isn't and some that we don't actually know who's fault it is.
He got the sub massively wrong on Saturday but outside of the starting 11 there wasn't anyone who is banging the door down to start a game.
There will be changes tomorrow night, regardless of who the manager is but the players that come in for the ones that were shit on Saturday will be the ones that were shit 2 or 3 games ago.
Bolton (H),
Cheltenham (H)
MK Dons (A)
Portsmouth (H) -(they was bang out of form when we played them)
Lincon (A)
Out of those 15 points we got... 1. This current squad is very cable of getting more than 1 point return from those games. We should very easily have got at least 10-11 points from those fixtures. 11 points would put us currently 6th.. at worst.
Cheltenham were far better than us, as were Pompey who let us back in by taking the foot of the gas. Lincoln could’ve won by more were they more aggressive, and most of our fans chanted ‘you’re not fit to wear the shirt’ after MK Dons. Bolton’s late goals flattered the score line a tad, but we were terrible after they equalised.
I agree that someone (anyone), would probably have us a bit higher than NA, but the players also need to look at themselves and we need to stop seeing them as good players.
Gunter - crap
Matthews - mediocre
Purrington - mediocre
Famewo - gone backwards
Lavelle - looks dodgy to me
Gilbey - massively overrated off the run of games at the end of last season, a great player to point and tell others what to do on the pitch, but floats in and out individually
Leko - can he be bothered
DJ - I’ve seen millions of wingers like him over the years, doesn’t stand out at all
Kirk - has the physique and presence of a small child
Stockley - gone backwards
Morgan - gone backwards, Hollywood balls and no substance
Watson - speaks volumes about our plight he seems to be the player in CM that is generally first choice
Pearce - the old grappler
I might be being harsh and I probably don’t see it like a lot of others, but I think we’ve got a sea of mediocre professionals and a manager without a clue.3 -
Yes, but not in as much as I think people are expecting/thinking. I think the players aren’t getting as much scrutiny for how poor they are/have been based on the focus being on NA. I don’t expect much from the new manager (should we get one). This squad to me is at most mid tableNorth Lower Neil said:
But the point is surely are they playing badly/going backwards becuase something isn't right under Adkins, and a new manager could reverse that?cabbles said:
I don’t understand this mantra of assuming we’re better than where we are with this squad and as such being able to beat the above.Addick_8 said:
Ok so, If being realistic a decent manager who would have known his best 11 by now and I think the squad would 10000% be more fitter the winnable games this squad is easily capable of winning that we didn't:Cafc43v3r said:
To be 9th you would have to double our points. Compare it to last season. Keeper worse, left back worse, left winger worse, a massive JFC sized gap in the middle that hasn't been filled at all. No game changer coming off the bench which, how ever you dress it up, would have left us in the bottom half last season.Addick_8 said:
It really is. This squad is easily good enough for 6-12th in League 1. You can’t keep blaming recruitment and not Adkins. We have a decent squad for the third division of English football.Cafc43v3r said:
Is it? To be 6-12th we would pretty much have to have had double the points we have got. I could make an argument for 4 or 5 more points, but not 9-10 with the players we have got.Addick_8 said:
Agreed we are currently in deep shit. However, this current squad is easily a top 6-12th squad in the league. No way should this group of players be where they are. They are partly to blame but buck stops with Adkins.carly burn said:Bailey said:
It's not, in my opinion, that it doesn't suit the players it's that he doesn't have the players that have defensive nous to play the system. Corey Blackett Taylor does not understand tracking back, maybe one of the reasons he is at this level. Lee is once again a purely offensive player as is Kirk. Contrast that with someone like Miller, who clearly knew how to defend and attack, Pratley and the sorely missed Forster Caskey. Players like Dobson and Morgan are still learning the game but will be very good players but not yet. For me Adkins problem is that he is stuck to a system that is not producing results and refuses to alter that system, look at the substitution of Lee on Saturday, he bought Corey Blackett Taylor on rather than Stockley, he then changed it positionally twice after that.Cafc43v3r said:
It's a good question. I see a lot of comments that it's the formation that's the problem or doesn't suit the players we have. Every club in this division, and the one above, play either a flat back four and 1 central striker or 3/5 at the back. The very rare examples of 442 use either a diamond or box 4 rather than the flat 4 of yesteryear.CL_Phantom said:killerandflash said:I still think that with a change of formation, we can be more competitive, as there are enough options in the squad. Our 4231/433 isn't working as we're being slaughtered down the flanks. With 4 attacking players who can't defend on the pitch, it can easily look more like 424
Change to a Curbs/Powell 442 or 4411 with one winger and 3 midfielders and we look more solid, e.g.
Keeper
RB Lavelle Famewo LB
Clare/Morgan Arter/Dobson Gilbey/Morgan CBT/Leko
Lee/Leko/Washington
Stockley/Davison
In no way excusing Adkins, but is the constant use of the 433/ 4231 a requirement? We've heard of the pathway plan which sounds exactly like the saints model, a clear pathway from the youngest age group to first team, all play to the same formation and style, players and coaches are scouted and brought in to fit to the club's vision.
I guess a question.to ask is, are we paying 433/4231 because that's what Adkins wants or do we have Adkins because thats what the club wants - 433/4231, sound similar yet pretty different... Look at Adkins' past jobs in particular the League one seasons and he mainly played... yep, 442...add in the comments that Henry wrote up from the teams chat the other day, about what's needed for a league one squad he said:
Tall players - as lot of goals come from set pieces
A captian - for those tough gamesWarriors - for those tough games
Athletic players to get through a 40+ game seasonSettled sideLeft and right set piece takers - as a lot of goals come from set pieces
Pacey player
20+ goal a season man
Sounds like the basics of a 442 to me...
And from that list of league one must haves we signed what?
One tall player - Stockley
Pacey player - CBT/LekoAgain, not excusing him as if his hands are a bit tied*, then he needs to have a word and say something to the powers that be rather than act a complete mug and go with it - that's still stackable as that's avoiding our issues in the hope it'll click.
* Not trying to add to the current list of CL conspiracy theories facts:
Roddy keeping Adkins in job because they're old buddies from when they wasn't at Reading together
Roddy not telling TS how bad it really is because TS has no way of seeing that for himself.
Adkins has lost the dressing room because he's far too nice and the players don't respect him because of it.
JJ and Euell have no say because Adkins Mr far too nice immediately shuts them down and bullies them into silence.
Adkins channels his inner Fraye and only gives instructions such as "play football"
DJ threw a dildo called Adkins at the dugout on Saturday.
We played it at the end of the season last season and it worked. Kirk probably hasn't played in any other formation in his career, Leko and CBT would have played it a youth level, Arter has played it most of his career. It shouldn't bother Lavelle in his position. Lee played it at both Luton and Oxford.
All the summer recruitment should have been based on 4231/433 because that's what the manager wanted. It probably was but, to me, it looks like it was more based on data and "good players" rather than how they fit in to the team. Kirk and Lee are good examples of this, they are very different types of players to the ones we had in those roles last season.I agree. Adkins has to go but this squad is no great shakes either. A terrible recruitment drive in the summer.We are in deep shit
Last season we had a 6-12th team, a couple of slight improvements would have made it a comfortable top 6 team. We haven't improved a single position (maybe right wing and back up RCB at a push). Every other new player is worse than the one they replaced, in the starting 11.
Add in the fact last season, for large parts, we were as poor as we are now, the big difference was Aneke turned defeats into draws and draws into wins.
The whole place is rotten.In October we:
Don’t look fit.. all
Manager doesn’t know his best 11
Making 5/6 changes per game
Look incredibly easy to beat
Have no identity or style of play
Players in wrong position, i.e Gilbey CDM, Morgan in Number 10.Who’s fault is that.. just recruitment?It’s a shambles. The squad is being managed terribly hence why it’s sitting in the bottom 3 of league 1.
You seriously going to say that you don’t think this squad isn’t capable of let’s say.. 9th at this point? Come on now. Stop deflecting it away from Adkins. I like the guy, but it very clearly isn’t working with him.
I am not deflecting it away from Adkins I am saying that just sacking him and plugging someone else in with the same players and same set up wouldn't magically have doubled our points total. I agree we should be doing better but I don't agree that we should be comfortably top half.
There is so much rotten, some of which is clearly Adkins fault, some of clearly isn't and some that we don't actually know who's fault it is.
He got the sub massively wrong on Saturday but outside of the starting 11 there wasn't anyone who is banging the door down to start a game.
There will be changes tomorrow night, regardless of who the manager is but the players that come in for the ones that were shit on Saturday will be the ones that were shit 2 or 3 games ago.
Bolton (H),
Cheltenham (H)
MK Dons (A)
Portsmouth (H) -(they was bang out of form when we played them)
Lincon (A)
Out of those 15 points we got... 1. This current squad is very cable of getting more than 1 point return from those games. We should very easily have got at least 10-11 points from those fixtures. 11 points would put us currently 6th.. at worst.
Cheltenham were far better than us, as were Pompey who let us back in by taking the foot of the gas. Lincoln could’ve won by more were they more aggressive, and most of our fans chanted ‘you’re not fit to wear the shirt’ after MK Dons. Bolton’s late goals flattered the score line a tad, but we were terrible after they equalised.
I agree that someone (anyone), would probably have us a bit higher than NA, but the players also need to look at themselves and we need to stop seeing them as good players.
Gunter - crap
Matthews - mediocre
Purrington - mediocre
Famewo - gone backwards
Lavelle - looks dodgy to me
Gilbey - massively overrated off the run of games at the end of last season, a great player to point and tell others what to do on the pitch, but floats in and out individually
Leko - can he be bothered
DJ - I’ve seen millions of wingers like him over the years, doesn’t stand out at all
Kirk - has the physique and presence of a small child
Stockley - gone backwards
Morgan - gone backwards, Hollywood balls and no substance
Watson - speaks volumes about our plight he seems to be the player in CM that is generally first choice
Pearce - the old grappler
I might be being harsh and I probably don’t see it like a lot of others, but I think we’ve got a sea of mediocre professionals and a manager without a clue.1 -
Exactly that, the players have more in them than is being dished up, it's the organisational side that is lacking = NigeNorth Lower Neil said:
But the point is surely are they playing badly/going backwards becuase something isn't right under Adkins, and a new manager could reverse that?cabbles said:
I don’t understand this mantra of assuming we’re better than where we are with this squad and as such being able to beat the above.Addick_8 said:
Ok so, If being realistic a decent manager who would have known his best 11 by now and I think the squad would 10000% be more fitter the winnable games this squad is easily capable of winning that we didn't:Cafc43v3r said:
To be 9th you would have to double our points. Compare it to last season. Keeper worse, left back worse, left winger worse, a massive JFC sized gap in the middle that hasn't been filled at all. No game changer coming off the bench which, how ever you dress it up, would have left us in the bottom half last season.Addick_8 said:
It really is. This squad is easily good enough for 6-12th in League 1. You can’t keep blaming recruitment and not Adkins. We have a decent squad for the third division of English football.Cafc43v3r said:
Is it? To be 6-12th we would pretty much have to have had double the points we have got. I could make an argument for 4 or 5 more points, but not 9-10 with the players we have got.Addick_8 said:
Agreed we are currently in deep shit. However, this current squad is easily a top 6-12th squad in the league. No way should this group of players be where they are. They are partly to blame but buck stops with Adkins.carly burn said:Bailey said:
It's not, in my opinion, that it doesn't suit the players it's that he doesn't have the players that have defensive nous to play the system. Corey Blackett Taylor does not understand tracking back, maybe one of the reasons he is at this level. Lee is once again a purely offensive player as is Kirk. Contrast that with someone like Miller, who clearly knew how to defend and attack, Pratley and the sorely missed Forster Caskey. Players like Dobson and Morgan are still learning the game but will be very good players but not yet. For me Adkins problem is that he is stuck to a system that is not producing results and refuses to alter that system, look at the substitution of Lee on Saturday, he bought Corey Blackett Taylor on rather than Stockley, he then changed it positionally twice after that.Cafc43v3r said:
It's a good question. I see a lot of comments that it's the formation that's the problem or doesn't suit the players we have. Every club in this division, and the one above, play either a flat back four and 1 central striker or 3/5 at the back. The very rare examples of 442 use either a diamond or box 4 rather than the flat 4 of yesteryear.CL_Phantom said:killerandflash said:I still think that with a change of formation, we can be more competitive, as there are enough options in the squad. Our 4231/433 isn't working as we're being slaughtered down the flanks. With 4 attacking players who can't defend on the pitch, it can easily look more like 424
Change to a Curbs/Powell 442 or 4411 with one winger and 3 midfielders and we look more solid, e.g.
Keeper
RB Lavelle Famewo LB
Clare/Morgan Arter/Dobson Gilbey/Morgan CBT/Leko
Lee/Leko/Washington
Stockley/Davison
In no way excusing Adkins, but is the constant use of the 433/ 4231 a requirement? We've heard of the pathway plan which sounds exactly like the saints model, a clear pathway from the youngest age group to first team, all play to the same formation and style, players and coaches are scouted and brought in to fit to the club's vision.
I guess a question.to ask is, are we paying 433/4231 because that's what Adkins wants or do we have Adkins because thats what the club wants - 433/4231, sound similar yet pretty different... Look at Adkins' past jobs in particular the League one seasons and he mainly played... yep, 442...add in the comments that Henry wrote up from the teams chat the other day, about what's needed for a league one squad he said:
Tall players - as lot of goals come from set pieces
A captian - for those tough gamesWarriors - for those tough games
Athletic players to get through a 40+ game seasonSettled sideLeft and right set piece takers - as a lot of goals come from set pieces
Pacey player
20+ goal a season man
Sounds like the basics of a 442 to me...
And from that list of league one must haves we signed what?
One tall player - Stockley
Pacey player - CBT/LekoAgain, not excusing him as if his hands are a bit tied*, then he needs to have a word and say something to the powers that be rather than act a complete mug and go with it - that's still stackable as that's avoiding our issues in the hope it'll click.
* Not trying to add to the current list of CL conspiracy theories facts:
Roddy keeping Adkins in job because they're old buddies from when they wasn't at Reading together
Roddy not telling TS how bad it really is because TS has no way of seeing that for himself.
Adkins has lost the dressing room because he's far too nice and the players don't respect him because of it.
JJ and Euell have no say because Adkins Mr far too nice immediately shuts them down and bullies them into silence.
Adkins channels his inner Fraye and only gives instructions such as "play football"
DJ threw a dildo called Adkins at the dugout on Saturday.
We played it at the end of the season last season and it worked. Kirk probably hasn't played in any other formation in his career, Leko and CBT would have played it a youth level, Arter has played it most of his career. It shouldn't bother Lavelle in his position. Lee played it at both Luton and Oxford.
All the summer recruitment should have been based on 4231/433 because that's what the manager wanted. It probably was but, to me, it looks like it was more based on data and "good players" rather than how they fit in to the team. Kirk and Lee are good examples of this, they are very different types of players to the ones we had in those roles last season.I agree. Adkins has to go but this squad is no great shakes either. A terrible recruitment drive in the summer.We are in deep shit
Last season we had a 6-12th team, a couple of slight improvements would have made it a comfortable top 6 team. We haven't improved a single position (maybe right wing and back up RCB at a push). Every other new player is worse than the one they replaced, in the starting 11.
Add in the fact last season, for large parts, we were as poor as we are now, the big difference was Aneke turned defeats into draws and draws into wins.
The whole place is rotten.In October we:
Don’t look fit.. all
Manager doesn’t know his best 11
Making 5/6 changes per game
Look incredibly easy to beat
Have no identity or style of play
Players in wrong position, i.e Gilbey CDM, Morgan in Number 10.Who’s fault is that.. just recruitment?It’s a shambles. The squad is being managed terribly hence why it’s sitting in the bottom 3 of league 1.
You seriously going to say that you don’t think this squad isn’t capable of let’s say.. 9th at this point? Come on now. Stop deflecting it away from Adkins. I like the guy, but it very clearly isn’t working with him.
I am not deflecting it away from Adkins I am saying that just sacking him and plugging someone else in with the same players and same set up wouldn't magically have doubled our points total. I agree we should be doing better but I don't agree that we should be comfortably top half.
There is so much rotten, some of which is clearly Adkins fault, some of clearly isn't and some that we don't actually know who's fault it is.
He got the sub massively wrong on Saturday but outside of the starting 11 there wasn't anyone who is banging the door down to start a game.
There will be changes tomorrow night, regardless of who the manager is but the players that come in for the ones that were shit on Saturday will be the ones that were shit 2 or 3 games ago.
Bolton (H),
Cheltenham (H)
MK Dons (A)
Portsmouth (H) -(they was bang out of form when we played them)
Lincon (A)
Out of those 15 points we got... 1. This current squad is very cable of getting more than 1 point return from those games. We should very easily have got at least 10-11 points from those fixtures. 11 points would put us currently 6th.. at worst.
Cheltenham were far better than us, as were Pompey who let us back in by taking the foot of the gas. Lincoln could’ve won by more were they more aggressive, and most of our fans chanted ‘you’re not fit to wear the shirt’ after MK Dons. Bolton’s late goals flattered the score line a tad, but we were terrible after they equalised.
I agree that someone (anyone), would probably have us a bit higher than NA, but the players also need to look at themselves and we need to stop seeing them as good players.
Gunter - crap
Matthews - mediocre
Purrington - mediocre
Famewo - gone backwards
Lavelle - looks dodgy to me
Gilbey - massively overrated off the run of games at the end of last season, a great player to point and tell others what to do on the pitch, but floats in and out individually
Leko - can he be bothered
DJ - I’ve seen millions of wingers like him over the years, doesn’t stand out at all
Kirk - has the physique and presence of a small child
Stockley - gone backwards
Morgan - gone backwards, Hollywood balls and no substance
Watson - speaks volumes about our plight he seems to be the player in CM that is generally first choice
Pearce - the old grappler
I might be being harsh and I probably don’t see it like a lot of others, but I think we’ve got a sea of mediocre professionals and a manager without a clue.1 -
Your assessment is pretty much spot on cabbs, a poor squad thrown together in a panic, mainly after a poor start. People suggesting on here our transfer window was good and we have a strong enough team to go up.......nah!cabbles said:
Yes, but not in as much as I think people are expecting/thinking. I think the players aren’t getting as much scrutiny for how poor they are/have been based on the focus being on NA. I don’t expect much from the new manager (should we get one). This squad to me is at most mid tableNorth Lower Neil said:
But the point is surely are they playing badly/going backwards becuase something isn't right under Adkins, and a new manager could reverse that?cabbles said:
I don’t understand this mantra of assuming we’re better than where we are with this squad and as such being able to beat the above.Addick_8 said:
Ok so, If being realistic a decent manager who would have known his best 11 by now and I think the squad would 10000% be more fitter the winnable games this squad is easily capable of winning that we didn't:Cafc43v3r said:
To be 9th you would have to double our points. Compare it to last season. Keeper worse, left back worse, left winger worse, a massive JFC sized gap in the middle that hasn't been filled at all. No game changer coming off the bench which, how ever you dress it up, would have left us in the bottom half last season.Addick_8 said:
It really is. This squad is easily good enough for 6-12th in League 1. You can’t keep blaming recruitment and not Adkins. We have a decent squad for the third division of English football.Cafc43v3r said:
Is it? To be 6-12th we would pretty much have to have had double the points we have got. I could make an argument for 4 or 5 more points, but not 9-10 with the players we have got.Addick_8 said:
Agreed we are currently in deep shit. However, this current squad is easily a top 6-12th squad in the league. No way should this group of players be where they are. They are partly to blame but buck stops with Adkins.carly burn said:Bailey said:
It's not, in my opinion, that it doesn't suit the players it's that he doesn't have the players that have defensive nous to play the system. Corey Blackett Taylor does not understand tracking back, maybe one of the reasons he is at this level. Lee is once again a purely offensive player as is Kirk. Contrast that with someone like Miller, who clearly knew how to defend and attack, Pratley and the sorely missed Forster Caskey. Players like Dobson and Morgan are still learning the game but will be very good players but not yet. For me Adkins problem is that he is stuck to a system that is not producing results and refuses to alter that system, look at the substitution of Lee on Saturday, he bought Corey Blackett Taylor on rather than Stockley, he then changed it positionally twice after that.Cafc43v3r said:
It's a good question. I see a lot of comments that it's the formation that's the problem or doesn't suit the players we have. Every club in this division, and the one above, play either a flat back four and 1 central striker or 3/5 at the back. The very rare examples of 442 use either a diamond or box 4 rather than the flat 4 of yesteryear.CL_Phantom said:killerandflash said:I still think that with a change of formation, we can be more competitive, as there are enough options in the squad. Our 4231/433 isn't working as we're being slaughtered down the flanks. With 4 attacking players who can't defend on the pitch, it can easily look more like 424
Change to a Curbs/Powell 442 or 4411 with one winger and 3 midfielders and we look more solid, e.g.
Keeper
RB Lavelle Famewo LB
Clare/Morgan Arter/Dobson Gilbey/Morgan CBT/Leko
Lee/Leko/Washington
Stockley/Davison
In no way excusing Adkins, but is the constant use of the 433/ 4231 a requirement? We've heard of the pathway plan which sounds exactly like the saints model, a clear pathway from the youngest age group to first team, all play to the same formation and style, players and coaches are scouted and brought in to fit to the club's vision.
I guess a question.to ask is, are we paying 433/4231 because that's what Adkins wants or do we have Adkins because thats what the club wants - 433/4231, sound similar yet pretty different... Look at Adkins' past jobs in particular the League one seasons and he mainly played... yep, 442...add in the comments that Henry wrote up from the teams chat the other day, about what's needed for a league one squad he said:
Tall players - as lot of goals come from set pieces
A captian - for those tough gamesWarriors - for those tough games
Athletic players to get through a 40+ game seasonSettled sideLeft and right set piece takers - as a lot of goals come from set pieces
Pacey player
20+ goal a season man
Sounds like the basics of a 442 to me...
And from that list of league one must haves we signed what?
One tall player - Stockley
Pacey player - CBT/LekoAgain, not excusing him as if his hands are a bit tied*, then he needs to have a word and say something to the powers that be rather than act a complete mug and go with it - that's still stackable as that's avoiding our issues in the hope it'll click.
* Not trying to add to the current list of CL conspiracy theories facts:
Roddy keeping Adkins in job because they're old buddies from when they wasn't at Reading together
Roddy not telling TS how bad it really is because TS has no way of seeing that for himself.
Adkins has lost the dressing room because he's far too nice and the players don't respect him because of it.
JJ and Euell have no say because Adkins Mr far too nice immediately shuts them down and bullies them into silence.
Adkins channels his inner Fraye and only gives instructions such as "play football"
DJ threw a dildo called Adkins at the dugout on Saturday.
We played it at the end of the season last season and it worked. Kirk probably hasn't played in any other formation in his career, Leko and CBT would have played it a youth level, Arter has played it most of his career. It shouldn't bother Lavelle in his position. Lee played it at both Luton and Oxford.
All the summer recruitment should have been based on 4231/433 because that's what the manager wanted. It probably was but, to me, it looks like it was more based on data and "good players" rather than how they fit in to the team. Kirk and Lee are good examples of this, they are very different types of players to the ones we had in those roles last season.I agree. Adkins has to go but this squad is no great shakes either. A terrible recruitment drive in the summer.We are in deep shit
Last season we had a 6-12th team, a couple of slight improvements would have made it a comfortable top 6 team. We haven't improved a single position (maybe right wing and back up RCB at a push). Every other new player is worse than the one they replaced, in the starting 11.
Add in the fact last season, for large parts, we were as poor as we are now, the big difference was Aneke turned defeats into draws and draws into wins.
The whole place is rotten.In October we:
Don’t look fit.. all
Manager doesn’t know his best 11
Making 5/6 changes per game
Look incredibly easy to beat
Have no identity or style of play
Players in wrong position, i.e Gilbey CDM, Morgan in Number 10.Who’s fault is that.. just recruitment?It’s a shambles. The squad is being managed terribly hence why it’s sitting in the bottom 3 of league 1.
You seriously going to say that you don’t think this squad isn’t capable of let’s say.. 9th at this point? Come on now. Stop deflecting it away from Adkins. I like the guy, but it very clearly isn’t working with him.
I am not deflecting it away from Adkins I am saying that just sacking him and plugging someone else in with the same players and same set up wouldn't magically have doubled our points total. I agree we should be doing better but I don't agree that we should be comfortably top half.
There is so much rotten, some of which is clearly Adkins fault, some of clearly isn't and some that we don't actually know who's fault it is.
He got the sub massively wrong on Saturday but outside of the starting 11 there wasn't anyone who is banging the door down to start a game.
There will be changes tomorrow night, regardless of who the manager is but the players that come in for the ones that were shit on Saturday will be the ones that were shit 2 or 3 games ago.
Bolton (H),
Cheltenham (H)
MK Dons (A)
Portsmouth (H) -(they was bang out of form when we played them)
Lincon (A)
Out of those 15 points we got... 1. This current squad is very cable of getting more than 1 point return from those games. We should very easily have got at least 10-11 points from those fixtures. 11 points would put us currently 6th.. at worst.
Cheltenham were far better than us, as were Pompey who let us back in by taking the foot of the gas. Lincoln could’ve won by more were they more aggressive, and most of our fans chanted ‘you’re not fit to wear the shirt’ after MK Dons. Bolton’s late goals flattered the score line a tad, but we were terrible after they equalised.
I agree that someone (anyone), would probably have us a bit higher than NA, but the players also need to look at themselves and we need to stop seeing them as good players.
Gunter - crap
Matthews - mediocre
Purrington - mediocre
Famewo - gone backwards
Lavelle - looks dodgy to me
Gilbey - massively overrated off the run of games at the end of last season, a great player to point and tell others what to do on the pitch, but floats in and out individually
Leko - can he be bothered
DJ - I’ve seen millions of wingers like him over the years, doesn’t stand out at all
Kirk - has the physique and presence of a small child
Stockley - gone backwards
Morgan - gone backwards, Hollywood balls and no substance
Watson - speaks volumes about our plight he seems to be the player in CM that is generally first choice
Pearce - the old grappler
I might be being harsh and I probably don’t see it like a lot of others, but I think we’ve got a sea of mediocre professionals and a manager without a clue.
This lot are mid table at best but sadly at the moment we have one foot in league 2.1 -
This is exactly what it is, be cause even if he's in the process of lining up replacements, he'd have booted the old git out the door and had a caretaker in charge.Dazzler21 said:I do question Sandgaard's reasoning to keep Adkins.
I can't believe he is simply hesitant. Is it some attempt to hold out like you might with stocks or a regular business?
or maybe he's busy trying to line up the next managerial targets first?
Whatever it is, as much as Sandgaard has my backing it does unnerve me a bit.
Just to clarify I haven't turned on Adkins either. Still like his positivity, but purely from a footballing aspect, it's time.1 -
This is exactly the same conversation we had to death last season.eastterrace6168 said:
Exactly that, the players have more in them than is being dished up, it's the organisational side that is lacking = NigeNorth Lower Neil said:
But the point is surely are they playing badly/going backwards becuase something isn't right under Adkins, and a new manager could reverse that?cabbles said:
I don’t understand this mantra of assuming we’re better than where we are with this squad and as such being able to beat the above.Addick_8 said:
Ok so, If being realistic a decent manager who would have known his best 11 by now and I think the squad would 10000% be more fitter the winnable games this squad is easily capable of winning that we didn't:Cafc43v3r said:
To be 9th you would have to double our points. Compare it to last season. Keeper worse, left back worse, left winger worse, a massive JFC sized gap in the middle that hasn't been filled at all. No game changer coming off the bench which, how ever you dress it up, would have left us in the bottom half last season.Addick_8 said:
It really is. This squad is easily good enough for 6-12th in League 1. You can’t keep blaming recruitment and not Adkins. We have a decent squad for the third division of English football.Cafc43v3r said:
Is it? To be 6-12th we would pretty much have to have had double the points we have got. I could make an argument for 4 or 5 more points, but not 9-10 with the players we have got.Addick_8 said:
Agreed we are currently in deep shit. However, this current squad is easily a top 6-12th squad in the league. No way should this group of players be where they are. They are partly to blame but buck stops with Adkins.carly burn said:Bailey said:
It's not, in my opinion, that it doesn't suit the players it's that he doesn't have the players that have defensive nous to play the system. Corey Blackett Taylor does not understand tracking back, maybe one of the reasons he is at this level. Lee is once again a purely offensive player as is Kirk. Contrast that with someone like Miller, who clearly knew how to defend and attack, Pratley and the sorely missed Forster Caskey. Players like Dobson and Morgan are still learning the game but will be very good players but not yet. For me Adkins problem is that he is stuck to a system that is not producing results and refuses to alter that system, look at the substitution of Lee on Saturday, he bought Corey Blackett Taylor on rather than Stockley, he then changed it positionally twice after that.Cafc43v3r said:
It's a good question. I see a lot of comments that it's the formation that's the problem or doesn't suit the players we have. Every club in this division, and the one above, play either a flat back four and 1 central striker or 3/5 at the back. The very rare examples of 442 use either a diamond or box 4 rather than the flat 4 of yesteryear.CL_Phantom said:killerandflash said:I still think that with a change of formation, we can be more competitive, as there are enough options in the squad. Our 4231/433 isn't working as we're being slaughtered down the flanks. With 4 attacking players who can't defend on the pitch, it can easily look more like 424
Change to a Curbs/Powell 442 or 4411 with one winger and 3 midfielders and we look more solid, e.g.
Keeper
RB Lavelle Famewo LB
Clare/Morgan Arter/Dobson Gilbey/Morgan CBT/Leko
Lee/Leko/Washington
Stockley/Davison
In no way excusing Adkins, but is the constant use of the 433/ 4231 a requirement? We've heard of the pathway plan which sounds exactly like the saints model, a clear pathway from the youngest age group to first team, all play to the same formation and style, players and coaches are scouted and brought in to fit to the club's vision.
I guess a question.to ask is, are we paying 433/4231 because that's what Adkins wants or do we have Adkins because thats what the club wants - 433/4231, sound similar yet pretty different... Look at Adkins' past jobs in particular the League one seasons and he mainly played... yep, 442...add in the comments that Henry wrote up from the teams chat the other day, about what's needed for a league one squad he said:
Tall players - as lot of goals come from set pieces
A captian - for those tough gamesWarriors - for those tough games
Athletic players to get through a 40+ game seasonSettled sideLeft and right set piece takers - as a lot of goals come from set pieces
Pacey player
20+ goal a season man
Sounds like the basics of a 442 to me...
And from that list of league one must haves we signed what?
One tall player - Stockley
Pacey player - CBT/LekoAgain, not excusing him as if his hands are a bit tied*, then he needs to have a word and say something to the powers that be rather than act a complete mug and go with it - that's still stackable as that's avoiding our issues in the hope it'll click.
* Not trying to add to the current list of CL conspiracy theories facts:
Roddy keeping Adkins in job because they're old buddies from when they wasn't at Reading together
Roddy not telling TS how bad it really is because TS has no way of seeing that for himself.
Adkins has lost the dressing room because he's far too nice and the players don't respect him because of it.
JJ and Euell have no say because Adkins Mr far too nice immediately shuts them down and bullies them into silence.
Adkins channels his inner Fraye and only gives instructions such as "play football"
DJ threw a dildo called Adkins at the dugout on Saturday.
We played it at the end of the season last season and it worked. Kirk probably hasn't played in any other formation in his career, Leko and CBT would have played it a youth level, Arter has played it most of his career. It shouldn't bother Lavelle in his position. Lee played it at both Luton and Oxford.
All the summer recruitment should have been based on 4231/433 because that's what the manager wanted. It probably was but, to me, it looks like it was more based on data and "good players" rather than how they fit in to the team. Kirk and Lee are good examples of this, they are very different types of players to the ones we had in those roles last season.I agree. Adkins has to go but this squad is no great shakes either. A terrible recruitment drive in the summer.We are in deep shit
Last season we had a 6-12th team, a couple of slight improvements would have made it a comfortable top 6 team. We haven't improved a single position (maybe right wing and back up RCB at a push). Every other new player is worse than the one they replaced, in the starting 11.
Add in the fact last season, for large parts, we were as poor as we are now, the big difference was Aneke turned defeats into draws and draws into wins.
The whole place is rotten.In October we:
Don’t look fit.. all
Manager doesn’t know his best 11
Making 5/6 changes per game
Look incredibly easy to beat
Have no identity or style of play
Players in wrong position, i.e Gilbey CDM, Morgan in Number 10.Who’s fault is that.. just recruitment?It’s a shambles. The squad is being managed terribly hence why it’s sitting in the bottom 3 of league 1.
You seriously going to say that you don’t think this squad isn’t capable of let’s say.. 9th at this point? Come on now. Stop deflecting it away from Adkins. I like the guy, but it very clearly isn’t working with him.
I am not deflecting it away from Adkins I am saying that just sacking him and plugging someone else in with the same players and same set up wouldn't magically have doubled our points total. I agree we should be doing better but I don't agree that we should be comfortably top half.
There is so much rotten, some of which is clearly Adkins fault, some of clearly isn't and some that we don't actually know who's fault it is.
He got the sub massively wrong on Saturday but outside of the starting 11 there wasn't anyone who is banging the door down to start a game.
There will be changes tomorrow night, regardless of who the manager is but the players that come in for the ones that were shit on Saturday will be the ones that were shit 2 or 3 games ago.
Bolton (H),
Cheltenham (H)
MK Dons (A)
Portsmouth (H) -(they was bang out of form when we played them)
Lincon (A)
Out of those 15 points we got... 1. This current squad is very cable of getting more than 1 point return from those games. We should very easily have got at least 10-11 points from those fixtures. 11 points would put us currently 6th.. at worst.
Cheltenham were far better than us, as were Pompey who let us back in by taking the foot of the gas. Lincoln could’ve won by more were they more aggressive, and most of our fans chanted ‘you’re not fit to wear the shirt’ after MK Dons. Bolton’s late goals flattered the score line a tad, but we were terrible after they equalised.
I agree that someone (anyone), would probably have us a bit higher than NA, but the players also need to look at themselves and we need to stop seeing them as good players.
Gunter - crap
Matthews - mediocre
Purrington - mediocre
Famewo - gone backwards
Lavelle - looks dodgy to me
Gilbey - massively overrated off the run of games at the end of last season, a great player to point and tell others what to do on the pitch, but floats in and out individually
Leko - can he be bothered
DJ - I’ve seen millions of wingers like him over the years, doesn’t stand out at all
Kirk - has the physique and presence of a small child
Stockley - gone backwards
Morgan - gone backwards, Hollywood balls and no substance
Watson - speaks volumes about our plight he seems to be the player in CM that is generally first choice
Pearce - the old grappler
I might be being harsh and I probably don’t see it like a lot of others, but I think we’ve got a sea of mediocre professionals and a manager without a clue.2 -
Other than Gunter at LB, that team looks no worse than the one which played on Saturday. Gilbey was invisible for much of the match, while Arter was a red card waiting to happen.Cafc43v3r said:
Remember we had 3 fit central midfielders against MK Dons and that's where we lost the game. Dobson, Clare and Morgan were chasing shadows. It was real men against boys stuff. Gunter at left back etc etc.Addick_8 said:
Ok, so let's take a look at that then. If being realistic, a decent manager who would have known his best 11 by now and I think the squad would 10000% be more fitter the winnable games this squad is easily capable of winning that we didn't:Cafc43v3r said:
To be 9th you would have to double our points. Compare it to last season. Keeper worse, left back worse, left winger worse, a massive JFC sized gap in the middle that hasn't been filled at all. No game changer coming off the bench which, how ever you dress it up, would have left us in the bottom half last season.Addick_8 said:
It really is. This squad is easily good enough for 6-12th in League 1. You can’t keep blaming recruitment and not Adkins. We have a decent squad for the third division of English football.Cafc43v3r said:
Is it? To be 6-12th we would pretty much have to have had double the points we have got. I could make an argument for 4 or 5 more points, but not 9-10 with the players we have got.Addick_8 said:
Agreed we are currently in deep shit. However, this current squad is easily a top 6-12th squad in the league. No way should this group of players be where they are. They are partly to blame but buck stops with Adkins.carly burn said:Bailey said:
It's not, in my opinion, that it doesn't suit the players it's that he doesn't have the players that have defensive nous to play the system. Corey Blackett Taylor does not understand tracking back, maybe one of the reasons he is at this level. Lee is once again a purely offensive player as is Kirk. Contrast that with someone like Miller, who clearly knew how to defend and attack, Pratley and the sorely missed Forster Caskey. Players like Dobson and Morgan are still learning the game but will be very good players but not yet. For me Adkins problem is that he is stuck to a system that is not producing results and refuses to alter that system, look at the substitution of Lee on Saturday, he bought Corey Blackett Taylor on rather than Stockley, he then changed it positionally twice after that.Cafc43v3r said:
It's a good question. I see a lot of comments that it's the formation that's the problem or doesn't suit the players we have. Every club in this division, and the one above, play either a flat back four and 1 central striker or 3/5 at the back. The very rare examples of 442 use either a diamond or box 4 rather than the flat 4 of yesteryear.CL_Phantom said:killerandflash said:I still think that with a change of formation, we can be more competitive, as there are enough options in the squad. Our 4231/433 isn't working as we're being slaughtered down the flanks. With 4 attacking players who can't defend on the pitch, it can easily look more like 424
Change to a Curbs/Powell 442 or 4411 with one winger and 3 midfielders and we look more solid, e.g.
Keeper
RB Lavelle Famewo LB
Clare/Morgan Arter/Dobson Gilbey/Morgan CBT/Leko
Lee/Leko/Washington
Stockley/Davison
In no way excusing Adkins, but is the constant use of the 433/ 4231 a requirement? We've heard of the pathway plan which sounds exactly like the saints model, a clear pathway from the youngest age group to first team, all play to the same formation and style, players and coaches are scouted and brought in to fit to the club's vision.
I guess a question.to ask is, are we paying 433/4231 because that's what Adkins wants or do we have Adkins because thats what the club wants - 433/4231, sound similar yet pretty different... Look at Adkins' past jobs in particular the League one seasons and he mainly played... yep, 442...add in the comments that Henry wrote up from the teams chat the other day, about what's needed for a league one squad he said:
Tall players - as lot of goals come from set pieces
A captian - for those tough gamesWarriors - for those tough games
Athletic players to get through a 40+ game seasonSettled sideLeft and right set piece takers - as a lot of goals come from set pieces
Pacey player
20+ goal a season man
Sounds like the basics of a 442 to me...
And from that list of league one must haves we signed what?
One tall player - Stockley
Pacey player - CBT/LekoAgain, not excusing him as if his hands are a bit tied*, then he needs to have a word and say something to the powers that be rather than act a complete mug and go with it - that's still stackable as that's avoiding our issues in the hope it'll click.
* Not trying to add to the current list of CL conspiracy theories facts:
Roddy keeping Adkins in job because they're old buddies from when they wasn't at Reading together
Roddy not telling TS how bad it really is because TS has no way of seeing that for himself.
Adkins has lost the dressing room because he's far too nice and the players don't respect him because of it.
JJ and Euell have no say because Adkins Mr far too nice immediately shuts them down and bullies them into silence.
Adkins channels his inner Fraye and only gives instructions such as "play football"
DJ threw a dildo called Adkins at the dugout on Saturday.
We played it at the end of the season last season and it worked. Kirk probably hasn't played in any other formation in his career, Leko and CBT would have played it a youth level, Arter has played it most of his career. It shouldn't bother Lavelle in his position. Lee played it at both Luton and Oxford.
All the summer recruitment should have been based on 4231/433 because that's what the manager wanted. It probably was but, to me, it looks like it was more based on data and "good players" rather than how they fit in to the team. Kirk and Lee are good examples of this, they are very different types of players to the ones we had in those roles last season.I agree. Adkins has to go but this squad is no great shakes either. A terrible recruitment drive in the summer.We are in deep shit
Last season we had a 6-12th team, a couple of slight improvements would have made it a comfortable top 6 team. We haven't improved a single position (maybe right wing and back up RCB at a push). Every other new player is worse than the one they replaced, in the starting 11.
Add in the fact last season, for large parts, we were as poor as we are now, the big difference was Aneke turned defeats into draws and draws into wins.
The whole place is rotten.In October we:
Don’t look fit.. all
Manager doesn’t know his best 11
Making 5/6 changes per game
Look incredibly easy to beat
Have no identity or style of play
Players in wrong position, i.e Gilbey CDM, Morgan in Number 10.Who’s fault is that.. just recruitment?It’s a shambles. The squad is being managed terribly hence why it’s sitting in the bottom 3 of league 1.
You seriously going to say that you don’t think this squad isn’t capable of let’s say.. 9th at this point? Come on now. Stop deflecting it away from Adkins. I like the guy, but it very clearly isn’t working with him.
I am not deflecting it away from Adkins I am saying that just sacking him and plugging someone else in with the same players and same set up wouldn't magically have doubled our points total. I agree we should be doing better but I don't agree that we should be comfortably top half.
There is so much rotten, some of which is clearly Adkins fault, some of clearly isn't and some that we don't actually know who's fault it is.
He got the sub massively wrong on Saturday but outside of the starting 11 there wasn't anyone who is banging the door down to start a game.
There will be changes tomorrow night, regardless of who the manager is but the players that come in for the ones that were shit on Saturday will be the ones that were shit 2 or 3 games ago.
Bolton (H),
Cheltenham (H)
MK Dons (A)
Portsmouth (H) -(they was bang out of form when we played them)
Lincon (A)
Out of those 15 points we got... 1. This current squad is very cable of getting more than 1 point return from those games. We should very easily have got at least 10-11 points from those fixtures. 11 points would put us currently 6th.. at worst.
Indeed against MKD we had more possession and more shots than against Lincoln, so it's not as if the new signings have improved things0 -
That’s definitely how I see it mate. As I get older and have seen what a successful team looks like (Bowyer’s three years ago, other previously promoted teams etc), I tend to use them as a yardstick. I just cannot, even with a better manager see that this team is capable of getting anywhere near the play offs, despite almost getting in them last seasoneaststandmike said:
Your assessment is pretty much spot on cabbs, a poor squad thrown together in a panic, mainly after a poor start. People suggesting on here our transfer window was good and we have a strong enough team to go up.......nah!cabbles said:
Yes, but not in as much as I think people are expecting/thinking. I think the players aren’t getting as much scrutiny for how poor they are/have been based on the focus being on NA. I don’t expect much from the new manager (should we get one). This squad to me is at most mid tableNorth Lower Neil said:
But the point is surely are they playing badly/going backwards becuase something isn't right under Adkins, and a new manager could reverse that?cabbles said:
I don’t understand this mantra of assuming we’re better than where we are with this squad and as such being able to beat the above.Addick_8 said:
Ok so, If being realistic a decent manager who would have known his best 11 by now and I think the squad would 10000% be more fitter the winnable games this squad is easily capable of winning that we didn't:Cafc43v3r said:
To be 9th you would have to double our points. Compare it to last season. Keeper worse, left back worse, left winger worse, a massive JFC sized gap in the middle that hasn't been filled at all. No game changer coming off the bench which, how ever you dress it up, would have left us in the bottom half last season.Addick_8 said:
It really is. This squad is easily good enough for 6-12th in League 1. You can’t keep blaming recruitment and not Adkins. We have a decent squad for the third division of English football.Cafc43v3r said:
Is it? To be 6-12th we would pretty much have to have had double the points we have got. I could make an argument for 4 or 5 more points, but not 9-10 with the players we have got.Addick_8 said:
Agreed we are currently in deep shit. However, this current squad is easily a top 6-12th squad in the league. No way should this group of players be where they are. They are partly to blame but buck stops with Adkins.carly burn said:Bailey said:
It's not, in my opinion, that it doesn't suit the players it's that he doesn't have the players that have defensive nous to play the system. Corey Blackett Taylor does not understand tracking back, maybe one of the reasons he is at this level. Lee is once again a purely offensive player as is Kirk. Contrast that with someone like Miller, who clearly knew how to defend and attack, Pratley and the sorely missed Forster Caskey. Players like Dobson and Morgan are still learning the game but will be very good players but not yet. For me Adkins problem is that he is stuck to a system that is not producing results and refuses to alter that system, look at the substitution of Lee on Saturday, he bought Corey Blackett Taylor on rather than Stockley, he then changed it positionally twice after that.Cafc43v3r said:
It's a good question. I see a lot of comments that it's the formation that's the problem or doesn't suit the players we have. Every club in this division, and the one above, play either a flat back four and 1 central striker or 3/5 at the back. The very rare examples of 442 use either a diamond or box 4 rather than the flat 4 of yesteryear.CL_Phantom said:killerandflash said:I still think that with a change of formation, we can be more competitive, as there are enough options in the squad. Our 4231/433 isn't working as we're being slaughtered down the flanks. With 4 attacking players who can't defend on the pitch, it can easily look more like 424
Change to a Curbs/Powell 442 or 4411 with one winger and 3 midfielders and we look more solid, e.g.
Keeper
RB Lavelle Famewo LB
Clare/Morgan Arter/Dobson Gilbey/Morgan CBT/Leko
Lee/Leko/Washington
Stockley/Davison
In no way excusing Adkins, but is the constant use of the 433/ 4231 a requirement? We've heard of the pathway plan which sounds exactly like the saints model, a clear pathway from the youngest age group to first team, all play to the same formation and style, players and coaches are scouted and brought in to fit to the club's vision.
I guess a question.to ask is, are we paying 433/4231 because that's what Adkins wants or do we have Adkins because thats what the club wants - 433/4231, sound similar yet pretty different... Look at Adkins' past jobs in particular the League one seasons and he mainly played... yep, 442...add in the comments that Henry wrote up from the teams chat the other day, about what's needed for a league one squad he said:
Tall players - as lot of goals come from set pieces
A captian - for those tough gamesWarriors - for those tough games
Athletic players to get through a 40+ game seasonSettled sideLeft and right set piece takers - as a lot of goals come from set pieces
Pacey player
20+ goal a season man
Sounds like the basics of a 442 to me...
And from that list of league one must haves we signed what?
One tall player - Stockley
Pacey player - CBT/LekoAgain, not excusing him as if his hands are a bit tied*, then he needs to have a word and say something to the powers that be rather than act a complete mug and go with it - that's still stackable as that's avoiding our issues in the hope it'll click.
* Not trying to add to the current list of CL conspiracy theories facts:
Roddy keeping Adkins in job because they're old buddies from when they wasn't at Reading together
Roddy not telling TS how bad it really is because TS has no way of seeing that for himself.
Adkins has lost the dressing room because he's far too nice and the players don't respect him because of it.
JJ and Euell have no say because Adkins Mr far too nice immediately shuts them down and bullies them into silence.
Adkins channels his inner Fraye and only gives instructions such as "play football"
DJ threw a dildo called Adkins at the dugout on Saturday.
We played it at the end of the season last season and it worked. Kirk probably hasn't played in any other formation in his career, Leko and CBT would have played it a youth level, Arter has played it most of his career. It shouldn't bother Lavelle in his position. Lee played it at both Luton and Oxford.
All the summer recruitment should have been based on 4231/433 because that's what the manager wanted. It probably was but, to me, it looks like it was more based on data and "good players" rather than how they fit in to the team. Kirk and Lee are good examples of this, they are very different types of players to the ones we had in those roles last season.I agree. Adkins has to go but this squad is no great shakes either. A terrible recruitment drive in the summer.We are in deep shit
Last season we had a 6-12th team, a couple of slight improvements would have made it a comfortable top 6 team. We haven't improved a single position (maybe right wing and back up RCB at a push). Every other new player is worse than the one they replaced, in the starting 11.
Add in the fact last season, for large parts, we were as poor as we are now, the big difference was Aneke turned defeats into draws and draws into wins.
The whole place is rotten.In October we:
Don’t look fit.. all
Manager doesn’t know his best 11
Making 5/6 changes per game
Look incredibly easy to beat
Have no identity or style of play
Players in wrong position, i.e Gilbey CDM, Morgan in Number 10.Who’s fault is that.. just recruitment?It’s a shambles. The squad is being managed terribly hence why it’s sitting in the bottom 3 of league 1.
You seriously going to say that you don’t think this squad isn’t capable of let’s say.. 9th at this point? Come on now. Stop deflecting it away from Adkins. I like the guy, but it very clearly isn’t working with him.
I am not deflecting it away from Adkins I am saying that just sacking him and plugging someone else in with the same players and same set up wouldn't magically have doubled our points total. I agree we should be doing better but I don't agree that we should be comfortably top half.
There is so much rotten, some of which is clearly Adkins fault, some of clearly isn't and some that we don't actually know who's fault it is.
He got the sub massively wrong on Saturday but outside of the starting 11 there wasn't anyone who is banging the door down to start a game.
There will be changes tomorrow night, regardless of who the manager is but the players that come in for the ones that were shit on Saturday will be the ones that were shit 2 or 3 games ago.
Bolton (H),
Cheltenham (H)
MK Dons (A)
Portsmouth (H) -(they was bang out of form when we played them)
Lincon (A)
Out of those 15 points we got... 1. This current squad is very cable of getting more than 1 point return from those games. We should very easily have got at least 10-11 points from those fixtures. 11 points would put us currently 6th.. at worst.
Cheltenham were far better than us, as were Pompey who let us back in by taking the foot of the gas. Lincoln could’ve won by more were they more aggressive, and most of our fans chanted ‘you’re not fit to wear the shirt’ after MK Dons. Bolton’s late goals flattered the score line a tad, but we were terrible after they equalised.
I agree that someone (anyone), would probably have us a bit higher than NA, but the players also need to look at themselves and we need to stop seeing them as good players.
Gunter - crap
Matthews - mediocre
Purrington - mediocre
Famewo - gone backwards
Lavelle - looks dodgy to me
Gilbey - massively overrated off the run of games at the end of last season, a great player to point and tell others what to do on the pitch, but floats in and out individually
Leko - can he be bothered
DJ - I’ve seen millions of wingers like him over the years, doesn’t stand out at all
Kirk - has the physique and presence of a small child
Stockley - gone backwards
Morgan - gone backwards, Hollywood balls and no substance
Watson - speaks volumes about our plight he seems to be the player in CM that is generally first choice
Pearce - the old grappler
I might be being harsh and I probably don’t see it like a lot of others, but I think we’ve got a sea of mediocre professionals and a manager without a clue.
This lot are mid table at best but sadly at the moment we have one foot in league 2.
I do agree a better manager would have us slightly higher up the table, but not by much. We’ve got a lot of players I simply don’t rate or like as footballers and I’m fed up of having to watch the pathetic football they offer up every week.2 - Sponsored links:
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I was that non enthused by the performance on Sat that I couldn’t even be bothered to celebrate the equaliser. The ‘limbs’ as they call them were quite decent among our fan base, but I couldn’t get into it at all.2 -
Those limbs were way OTT for a scruffy equaliser at Lincolncabbles said:
I was that non enthused by the performance on Sat that I couldn’t even be bothered to celebrate the equaliser. The ‘limbs’ as they call them were quite decent among our fan base, but I couldn’t get into it at all.
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Apologies if it’s already been posted.
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Surely there should have been some sort of club announcement either way by now, even if it's a vote of confidence, when you consider the weight of fan opinion leading upto, and since, Saturday's shit show?
Think it shows a little lack of respect tbh.1 -
I think Tuesday will be the final straw.0
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Bolton at home?Valleysarr said:We have not been on the end of a bad beating like some teams which is a positive!
beat Stanley and the. We can go on a run!8 -
Not getting hidings isn't the point is it, it's the manner of the defeat, the Cheltenham performance was the equivalent of getting done 5 nilmattinfinland said:
Bolton at home?Valleysarr said:We have not been on the end of a bad beating like some teams which is a positive!
beat Stanley and the. We can go on a run!10 -
I don’t think you are being harsh at all - in fact you have been kind to a couple of the players in your assessment.cabbles said:
I don’t understand this mantra of assuming we’re better than where we are with this squad and as such being able to beat the above.Addick_8 said:
Ok so, If being realistic a decent manager who would have known his best 11 by now and I think the squad would 10000% be more fitter the winnable games this squad is easily capable of winning that we didn't:Cafc43v3r said:
To be 9th you would have to double our points. Compare it to last season. Keeper worse, left back worse, left winger worse, a massive JFC sized gap in the middle that hasn't been filled at all. No game changer coming off the bench which, how ever you dress it up, would have left us in the bottom half last season.Addick_8 said:
It really is. This squad is easily good enough for 6-12th in League 1. You can’t keep blaming recruitment and not Adkins. We have a decent squad for the third division of English football.Cafc43v3r said:
Is it? To be 6-12th we would pretty much have to have had double the points we have got. I could make an argument for 4 or 5 more points, but not 9-10 with the players we have got.Addick_8 said:
Agreed we are currently in deep shit. However, this current squad is easily a top 6-12th squad in the league. No way should this group of players be where they are. They are partly to blame but buck stops with Adkins.carly burn said:Bailey said:
It's not, in my opinion, that it doesn't suit the players it's that he doesn't have the players that have defensive nous to play the system. Corey Blackett Taylor does not understand tracking back, maybe one of the reasons he is at this level. Lee is once again a purely offensive player as is Kirk. Contrast that with someone like Miller, who clearly knew how to defend and attack, Pratley and the sorely missed Forster Caskey. Players like Dobson and Morgan are still learning the game but will be very good players but not yet. For me Adkins problem is that he is stuck to a system that is not producing results and refuses to alter that system, look at the substitution of Lee on Saturday, he bought Corey Blackett Taylor on rather than Stockley, he then changed it positionally twice after that.Cafc43v3r said:
It's a good question. I see a lot of comments that it's the formation that's the problem or doesn't suit the players we have. Every club in this division, and the one above, play either a flat back four and 1 central striker or 3/5 at the back. The very rare examples of 442 use either a diamond or box 4 rather than the flat 4 of yesteryear.CL_Phantom said:killerandflash said:I still think that with a change of formation, we can be more competitive, as there are enough options in the squad. Our 4231/433 isn't working as we're being slaughtered down the flanks. With 4 attacking players who can't defend on the pitch, it can easily look more like 424
Change to a Curbs/Powell 442 or 4411 with one winger and 3 midfielders and we look more solid, e.g.
Keeper
RB Lavelle Famewo LB
Clare/Morgan Arter/Dobson Gilbey/Morgan CBT/Leko
Lee/Leko/Washington
Stockley/Davison
In no way excusing Adkins, but is the constant use of the 433/ 4231 a requirement? We've heard of the pathway plan which sounds exactly like the saints model, a clear pathway from the youngest age group to first team, all play to the same formation and style, players and coaches are scouted and brought in to fit to the club's vision.
I guess a question.to ask is, are we paying 433/4231 because that's what Adkins wants or do we have Adkins because thats what the club wants - 433/4231, sound similar yet pretty different... Look at Adkins' past jobs in particular the League one seasons and he mainly played... yep, 442...add in the comments that Henry wrote up from the teams chat the other day, about what's needed for a league one squad he said:
Tall players - as lot of goals come from set pieces
A captian - for those tough gamesWarriors - for those tough games
Athletic players to get through a 40+ game seasonSettled sideLeft and right set piece takers - as a lot of goals come from set pieces
Pacey player
20+ goal a season man
Sounds like the basics of a 442 to me...
And from that list of league one must haves we signed what?
One tall player - Stockley
Pacey player - CBT/LekoAgain, not excusing him as if his hands are a bit tied*, then he needs to have a word and say something to the powers that be rather than act a complete mug and go with it - that's still stackable as that's avoiding our issues in the hope it'll click.
* Not trying to add to the current list of CL conspiracy theories facts:
Roddy keeping Adkins in job because they're old buddies from when they wasn't at Reading together
Roddy not telling TS how bad it really is because TS has no way of seeing that for himself.
Adkins has lost the dressing room because he's far too nice and the players don't respect him because of it.
JJ and Euell have no say because Adkins Mr far too nice immediately shuts them down and bullies them into silence.
Adkins channels his inner Fraye and only gives instructions such as "play football"
DJ threw a dildo called Adkins at the dugout on Saturday.
We played it at the end of the season last season and it worked. Kirk probably hasn't played in any other formation in his career, Leko and CBT would have played it a youth level, Arter has played it most of his career. It shouldn't bother Lavelle in his position. Lee played it at both Luton and Oxford.
All the summer recruitment should have been based on 4231/433 because that's what the manager wanted. It probably was but, to me, it looks like it was more based on data and "good players" rather than how they fit in to the team. Kirk and Lee are good examples of this, they are very different types of players to the ones we had in those roles last season.I agree. Adkins has to go but this squad is no great shakes either. A terrible recruitment drive in the summer.We are in deep shit
Last season we had a 6-12th team, a couple of slight improvements would have made it a comfortable top 6 team. We haven't improved a single position (maybe right wing and back up RCB at a push). Every other new player is worse than the one they replaced, in the starting 11.
Add in the fact last season, for large parts, we were as poor as we are now, the big difference was Aneke turned defeats into draws and draws into wins.
The whole place is rotten.In October we:
Don’t look fit.. all
Manager doesn’t know his best 11
Making 5/6 changes per game
Look incredibly easy to beat
Have no identity or style of play
Players in wrong position, i.e Gilbey CDM, Morgan in Number 10.Who’s fault is that.. just recruitment?It’s a shambles. The squad is being managed terribly hence why it’s sitting in the bottom 3 of league 1.
You seriously going to say that you don’t think this squad isn’t capable of let’s say.. 9th at this point? Come on now. Stop deflecting it away from Adkins. I like the guy, but it very clearly isn’t working with him.
I am not deflecting it away from Adkins I am saying that just sacking him and plugging someone else in with the same players and same set up wouldn't magically have doubled our points total. I agree we should be doing better but I don't agree that we should be comfortably top half.
There is so much rotten, some of which is clearly Adkins fault, some of clearly isn't and some that we don't actually know who's fault it is.
He got the sub massively wrong on Saturday but outside of the starting 11 there wasn't anyone who is banging the door down to start a game.
There will be changes tomorrow night, regardless of who the manager is but the players that come in for the ones that were shit on Saturday will be the ones that were shit 2 or 3 games ago.
Bolton (H),
Cheltenham (H)
MK Dons (A)
Portsmouth (H) -(they was bang out of form when we played them)
Lincon (A)
Out of those 15 points we got... 1. This current squad is very cable of getting more than 1 point return from those games. We should very easily have got at least 10-11 points from those fixtures. 11 points would put us currently 6th.. at worst.
Cheltenham were far better than us, as were Pompey who let us back in by taking the foot of the gas. Lincoln could’ve won by more were they more aggressive, and most of our fans chanted ‘you’re not fit to wear the shirt’ after MK Dons. Bolton’s late goals flattered the score line a tad, but we were terrible after they equalised.
I agree that someone (anyone), would probably have us a bit higher than NA, but the players also need to look at themselves and we need to stop seeing them as good players.
Gunter - crap
Matthews - mediocre
Purrington - mediocre
Famewo - gone backwards
Lavelle - looks dodgy to me
Gilbey - massively overrated off the run of games at the end of last season, a great player to point and tell others what to do on the pitch, but floats in and out individually
Leko - can he be bothered
DJ - I’ve seen millions of wingers like him over the years, doesn’t stand out at all
Kirk - has the physique and presence of a small child
Stockley - gone backwards
Morgan - gone backwards, Hollywood balls and no substance
Watson - speaks volumes about our plight he seems to be the player in CM that is generally first choice
Pearce - the old grappler
I might be being harsh and I probably don’t see it like a lot of others, but I think we’ve got a sea of mediocre professionals and a manager without a clue.We have a clueless manager who until recently was living off the success he achieved at Southampton 10 years ago. We have a backroom team that must have serious question marks against their names. WTF goes on all week at the training ground?All that said, I’m not sure many coaching teams would get much more out of such a poor group of players. We keep reading that we “have at least a top 6 squad” - but do we really? We might have a couple of top 6 players, but not a squad…..the recruitment over the summer was pathetic.
At this moment in time I would settle for a 14th place finish in the table and a complete rebuild starting now. Clear the entire management team out (and yes that includes Jackson). Get somebody in who is young and hungry and let him build something. We get far to many loan players in that don’t really give a shit.We have to many people still let over from the RD and Southall debacles - clear them out, we just seem to have an acceptance at the club that being shit is the norm.Sandgaard has bought a football club - now he needs to run is as a football club. If he hasn’t got the finance, he should just put it up for sale. This farcical situation with Adkins has realised serious questions as to what he actually wants from all of this.11 -
Problem being,the camels back broke weeks and weeks ago!SELR_addicks said:I think Tuesday will be the final straw.8
This discussion has been closed.
