I don’t normally post on these threads and while I appreciate the logic and creativity of many of the team selections I am still left with the pit of the stomach reaction that none of them offer anything approaching a strong spine, a definite shape and any sense of balance.
MacGillivray is on his day a very capable L1 keeper. I am OK with such position but in terms of leadership and forming a coherent robust partnership with his CBs I just don’t see it. With a more compelling alternative maybe he would rise to the challenge. On what basis did anyone recognise Henderson as being a viable competitor after 3yrs on the bench.
I never understood resigning Matthews when Gunter was on the books for another year. There is nothing to choose between them even in terms of utility. Neither are compelling in either défense or attack. Gunter in a Charlton shirt is a complete paradox. Functional + in a Welsh shirt it is almost as if playing in L1 doesn’t warrant his undivided attention.
Purrington I can most certainly live with. Probably the most unremarkable of all unremarkable fullbacks he will handle the basics and put in his shift. Souare I suspect thinks he may have landed on a different planet. As he looks alongside or in front of him he sadly resembles someone who is still trying to understand whether they are playing the same game.
Centrally on whose assumption did we presume Inniss would be contributing to the side to the point we didn’t bring a competitive RCB until the last day of the window. Lavelle shows spirit, industry, some physicality but he has a lot of growing to do. Famewo is younger and less experienced than Lavelle. He seems to be spending more time second guessing himself than focusing on the basics. As a consequence Pearce has probably appeared far more than anyone expected or his injury profile would welcome.
Anybody suggesting this quartet today represents a strong defensive core is smoking something they probably shouldn’t.
Of these 10 names just 2 are contracted for next season.
Having just watched an entire 2020/21 season where we churned through 9/10 midfield players apparently incapable of maintaining a disciplined defensive shape we bring in one actual Central Defensive Midfielder Dobson until the last day of the window whereon a completely unfit Arter arrives.
Now there is a difference between a Central Midfielder and Central Defensive midfielder and when you play them. If you have a strong CB pairing then you can get away with a CM. If you don’t you need a CDM to protect their arses. Someone like a Bielik. The best we have at the moment is Dobson. After him is probably the completely unproven Dempsey who I don’t think is even registered to play in the EFL.
Watson is a converted very good box to box midfielder, Gilbey is box to box. Clare is box to box - JFC is a Jack of all trades - Morgan is his deputy. Is there a central midfield spine in there somewhere?
4 of this 8 are contracted for next season.
It is similar challenge with the pot pourri of the attacking third. Leko, Lee, Blackett Taylor, Jayiesmi, Stockley, Washington, Davison, and Kirk
Could someone kindly point me in the direction of a measure of complementary skills and balance not just across these additional 8 names but the entire 14 players currently eligible for the front 6 positions.
3 of this last 8 are contracted for next season.
I ask just for friend because without such balance you have no opportunity to build continuity and consistency of performance.
The friend of the club? A guy who has served it with distinction for a decade.
Perhaps we could all remember this when the final whistle of the Sunderland match blows.
Others with the club I suggest might like to reflect on the thought 17 of the above names were signed/ resigned to take forward the future of this club for this season. Remember the bit about « balance and opportunity to build continuity and consistency of performance » No matter the algorithm its called TEAM building.
Whats done is done. It is in the past. A decent guy has paid a heavy price. It is no longer about addressing his performance.
It is now about Mr Jackson. He has a very real journey to travel here. Will the « wheels on the bus » be quite ready to go « round and round » tomorrow? I suspect not.
Damp squib? Nah - It is a matter of realistic perspective.
Play the formation that the players understand best, IMHO 4-4-2, with one of the attackers dropping back when needed to support the midfield.
While I don't agree with hoofing it up to Stockley, if the players are happier with a long ball approach tomorrow, fair enough, as long as it is married to genuine effort and endeavours.
I'd love a win, but would rip your arm off to see the players no longer accepting a humiliation as the norm.
Anything above safety had to be a bonus now.
But Sunderland will get some kind of Pyrrhic victory tomorrow.
As far as I’m concerned this is a fresh plate , set some rules down. If you aren’t fit you play no part for a start , bollocks to all this playing people for 30 mins here and 45 minutes there
Play the formation that the players understand best, IMHO 4-4-2, with one of the attackers dropping back when needed to support the midfield.
While I don't agree with hoofing it up to Stockley, if the players are happier with a long ball approach tomorrow, fair enough, as long as it is married to genuine effort and endeavours.
I'd love a win, but would rip your arm off to see the players no longer accepting a humiliation as the norm.
Anything above safety had to be a bonus now.
But Sunderland will get some kind of Pyrrhic victory tomorrow.
Sean Dyche used 4-4-2 when attacking and 4-4-1-1 when out of possession week in week out from League one to Premier for so many years that players always knew what they were doing. Easy for players to slot in.
Various wide players have been used by Burnley in recent years but they have to work hard: JBG, Lennon and McNeil etc.
Lennon didn't stay too often as he didn't really fit in. Both Yóhann and Dwight can attack down the flank or go narrow.
Jackson will demand that it's mandatory to work hard. Players making poor decisions will hopefully lessen once the stress can disappear from our play and JJ and Jason can attempt to imbue the team with some emotional intelligence which has been lacking this season.
Sunderland have won all their home games so not entirely down to how we play. Arrogant to think that a team in 22nd place can just turn form on like a tap against a team with a 100% home record.
Sunderland 2 Cafc 1 but positives to work on for the next two home games.
Right back.....neither are any good so select one Left back Purrington Centre backs Deji and Pearce Midfield Arter, Watson, Lee and Gilbey Forwards Washington and Davison
Id bring Stockley on for whichever of the forwards runs out of steam first then Leko, Lavelle, Dobson, Henderson,Morgan, CBT late on if we need him.
A solid if not dynamic lineup 442
Leko is our best player & has to start.
Sadly I think we will be singing the 'Your nothing special...' song for most of the 2nd half whatever we do!
Hes a good player but drifts in and out....we need grafters.....you can bring on the gifted players when you have the luxury of time or a two or three goal lead.
I’ve got a horrible feeling we’ll get turned over and promised myself I wouldn’t waste my money on the stream.. but how can I miss JJ in the dugout.. this poxy club always drags me back.
As far as I’m concerned this is a fresh plate , set some rules down. If you aren’t fit you play no part for a start , bollocks to all this playing people for 30 mins here and 45 minutes there
Fresh plate or clean slate, I agree, back to basics; simple formation, each player knowing his role, ready to play the majority of the match, substitutions made for injury or tactical reasons only, unless someone has put in a massive shift and is cramping. Each match played with an underdogs spirit, because right now, for most matches, that’s what we are. Underdogs.
What a beautiful day to be a Charlton fan. Today is the day that our future silverware winning manager fully takes the reigns for the first time (previous caretaker duties excepted).
I saw Deji suggested as a right back for the first time the other day and honestly I like it. He’s clearly a talented young player, many centre backs gain initial experience in full back roles and anything we can do to get Matthews and Gunter out of the side is a positive. Otherwise the aim must be to remain solid and stop conceding goals first and foremost, especially against a good Sunderland side.
I also think we need to get midfielders in who can play wide and cover the full backs but also tuck in to clog up the middle of the pitch if needed. A return to the diamond formation may be in order.
Washington is good enough to score goals at this level, I don’t see a team featuring him staying in the relegation zone much longer. He deserves an extended run up top and I’d give it to him.
Play the formation that the players understand best, IMHO 4-4-2, with one of the attackers dropping back when needed to support the midfield.
While I don't agree with hoofing it up to Stockley, if the players are happier with a long ball approach tomorrow, fair enough, as long as it is married to genuine effort and endeavours.
I'd love a win, but would rip your arm off to see the players no longer accepting a humiliation as the norm.
Anything above safety had to be a bonus now.
But Sunderland will get some kind of Pyrrhic victory tomorrow.
Sean Dyche used 4-4-2 when attacking and 4-4-1-1 when out of possession week in week out from League one to Premier for so many years that players always knew what they were doing. Easy for players to slot in.
Various wide players have been used by Burnley in recent years but they have to work hard: JBG, Lennon and McNeil etc.
Lennon didn't stay too often as he didn't really fit in. Both Yóhann and Dwight can attack down the flank or go narrow.
Jackson will demand that it's mandatory to work hard. Players making poor decisions will hopefully lessen once the stress can disappear from our play and JJ and Jason can attempt to imbue the team with some emotional intelligence which has been lacking this season.
Sunderland have won all their home games so not entirely down to how we play. Arrogant to think that a team in 22nd place can just turn form on like a tap against a team with a 100% home record.
Sunderland 2 Cafc 1 but positives to work on for the next two home games.
Dyche is a bit of an exception though. When this came up earlier in the season I looked through all the formations at the weekend and only 3 clubs played a 442, or a 4411, in the traditional sense.
When people say 442 I assume they mean 2 center mids and two wide players, whether they are "wingers" or wide midfielders in the Jackson, Stuart or Beckham style?
If that's what they mean and they assume it's a position everyone would be comfortable with I really have to question that.
The top teams moved to either a lopsided 442 or 433 in the late 90s. Certainly Arsenals double winners would be described as 433 now. And ditched 442 completely in the early 00s. Youth teams have not consistently played 442 for years. I doubt Arter has ever played for a professional team who's default is 442. Kirk has spent his whole career at Crewe who play 4231/433 from the minute they play 11 aside. Dobson has never played, professionally in a 442 regularly.
It's produced a whole generation of midfielders, not just at Charlton, that are limited to either being AMs or DMs, CMs are like rocking horse shit. Because that's what kids in academies play. You can extend that to "wingers" as well, most modern ones couldn't play in a 442. Every time a manager puts an extra DM in they get pelters from Southgate and OGS down. The two that avoid it Pepe and Klopp get away with it by not playing a center forward.
The closest player we have to a CM is JFC. If you pair him with a Watson or a Dobson you become turgid, if you pair him with a Lee or a Gilbey you become chaotic. You could possibly get away with two JFCs.
I’ve got a horrible feeling we’ll get turned over and promised myself I wouldn’t waste my money on the stream.. but how can I miss JJ in the dugout.. this poxy club always drags me back.
Need solidity and experience for this one. Would probably go 4-4-1-1 and try and grind something out.
MacG Purrington Pearce Lavelle Gunter Soaure Gilbey Arter Clare Lee Stockley
Would need Lee to have the intelligence to drop into midfield when defending and join Stockley when attacking.
Hopefully we see a response from the players today.
Prediction? Who knows though would have been an easier guess if Adkins was still in charge. Going for a battling 2-1 defeat which would still be an improvement.
Play the side predicted in the opening post and we will get the same result and jacko might as well leave now - the problems to be addressed are: - we need our wide midfielders to be hard working, responsible and to track back - we need a physical and mobile cdm , we need 2 up front who compliment each other and we need to man mark when we don't have the ball. Get that right and the defence will fix itself.
mac
matthews lavelle famewho purrington
washington dobson arter gilbey
stockley leko
i like Lee a lot and i like CBT but this is a time for getting back to basics and they can be used from the bench / grafted into the side once we have restored some balance
I don’t normally post on these threads and while I appreciate the logic and creativity of many of the team selections I am still left with the pit of the stomach reaction that none of them offer anything approaching a strong spine, a definite shape and any sense of balance.
MacGillivray is on his day a very capable L1 keeper. I am OK with such position but in terms of leadership and forming a coherent robust partnership with his CBs I just don’t see it. With a more compelling alternative maybe he would rise to the challenge. On what basis did anyone recognise Henderson as being a viable competitor after 3yrs on the bench.
I never understood resigning Matthews when Gunter was on the books for another year. There is nothing to choose between them even in terms of utility. Neither are compelling in either défense or attack. Gunter in a Charlton shirt is a complete paradox. Functional + in a Welsh shirt it is almost as if playing in L1 doesn’t warrant his undivided attention.
Purrington I can most certainly live with. Probably the most unremarkable of all unremarkable fullbacks he will handle the basics and put in his shift. Souare I suspect thinks he may have landed on a different planet. As he looks alongside or in front of him he sadly resembles someone who is still trying to understand whether they are playing the same game.
Centrally on whose assumption did we presume Inniss would be contributing to the side to the point we didn’t bring a competitive RCB until the last day of the window. Lavelle shows spirit, industry, some physicality but he has a lot of growing to do. Famewo is younger and less experienced than Lavelle. He seems to be spending more time second guessing himself than focusing on the basics. As a consequence Pearce has probably appeared far more than anyone expected or his injury profile would welcome.
Anybody suggesting this quartet today represents a strong defensive core is smoking something they probably shouldn’t.
Of these 10 names just 2 are contracted for next season.
Having just watched an entire 2020/21 season where we churned through 9/10 midfield players apparently incapable of maintaining a disciplined defensive shape we bring in one actual Central Defensive Midfielder Dobson until the last day of the window whereon a completely unfit Arter arrives.
Now there is a difference between a Central Midfielder and Central Defensive midfielder and when you play them. If you have a strong CB pairing then you can get away with a CM. If you don’t you need a CDM to protect their arses. Someone like a Bielik. The best we have at the moment is Dobson. After him is probably the completely unproven Dempsey who I don’t think is even registered to play in the EFL.
Watson is a converted very good box to box midfielder, Gilbey is box to box. Clare is box to box - JFC is a Jack of all trades - Morgan is his deputy. Is there a central midfield spine in there somewhere?
4 of this 8 are contracted for next season.
It is similar challenge with the pot pourri of the attacking third. Leko, Lee, Blackett Taylor, Jayiesmi, Stockley, Washington, Davison, and Kirk
Could someone kindly point me in the direction of a measure of complementary skills and balance not just across these additional 8 names but the entire 14 players currently eligible for the front 6 positions.
3 of this last 8 are contracted for next season.
I ask just for friend because without such balance you have no opportunity to build continuity and consistency of performance.
The friend of the club? A guy who has served it with distinction for a decade.
Perhaps we could all remember this when the final whistle of the Sunderland match blows.
Others with the club I suggest might like to reflect on the thought 17 of the above names were signed/ resigned to take forward the future of this club for this season. Remember the bit about « balance and opportunity to build continuity and consistency of performance » No matter the algorithm its called TEAM building.
Whats done is done. It is in the past. A decent guy has paid a heavy price. It is no longer about addressing his performance.
It is now about Mr Jackson. He has a very real journey to travel here. Will the « wheels on the bus » be quite ready to go « round and round » tomorrow? I suspect not.
Damp squib? Nah - It is a matter of realistic perspective.
Great post Grapevine and probably spot on but I’m afraid we have to decline your request to give the pre match team talk this afternoon.
Come on Jacko - best of luck to him and the boys today - a win today and followed up with a win against donny and we will all be talking about playoffs again - it can happen - its football and things can turn round very fast - from having a team where you can't see where the next win is coming from to having a squad brimming with talent - 100% behind Jacko - this is his moment and i think he has the star quality to deliver.
Famewo must really not want to activate that potential transfer clause. He's been pretty poor this season when we needed his familiarity and presence.
IMO, he looks like a player that switches off during the game and shit happens as a result. Let’s face it, when he’s ‘awake’ he looks like he could be playing champions league football and should be nowhere near league one. TBH, I’d rather we didn’t play him at all.
Comments
1-1 with a Stickers injury time leveller.
MacGillivray is on his day a very capable L1 keeper. I am OK with such position but in terms of leadership and forming a coherent robust partnership with his CBs I just don’t see it. With a more compelling alternative maybe he would rise to the challenge. On what basis did anyone recognise Henderson as being a viable competitor after 3yrs on the bench.
I never understood resigning Matthews when Gunter was on the books for another year. There is nothing to choose between them even in terms of utility. Neither are compelling in either défense or attack. Gunter in a Charlton shirt is a complete paradox. Functional + in a Welsh shirt it is almost as if playing in L1 doesn’t warrant his undivided attention.
Purrington I can most certainly live with. Probably the most unremarkable of all unremarkable fullbacks he will handle the basics and put in his shift. Souare I suspect thinks he may have landed on a different planet. As he looks alongside or in front of him he sadly resembles someone who is still trying to understand whether they are playing the same game.
Centrally on whose assumption did we presume Inniss would be contributing to the side to the point we didn’t bring a competitive RCB until the last day of the window. Lavelle shows spirit, industry, some physicality but he has a lot of growing to do. Famewo is younger and less experienced than Lavelle. He seems to be spending more time second guessing himself than focusing on the basics. As a consequence Pearce has probably appeared far more than anyone expected or his injury profile would welcome.
Anybody suggesting this quartet today represents a strong defensive core is smoking something they probably shouldn’t.
Of these 10 names just 2 are contracted for next season.
Having just watched an entire 2020/21 season where we churned through 9/10 midfield players apparently incapable of maintaining a disciplined defensive shape we bring in one actual Central Defensive Midfielder Dobson until the last day of the window whereon a completely unfit Arter arrives.
Now there is a difference between a Central Midfielder and Central Defensive midfielder and when you play them. If you have a strong CB pairing then you can get away with a CM. If you don’t you need a CDM to protect their arses. Someone like a Bielik. The best we have at the moment is Dobson. After him is probably the completely unproven Dempsey who I don’t think is even registered to play in the EFL.
Watson is a converted very good box to box midfielder, Gilbey is box to box. Clare is box to box - JFC is a Jack of all trades - Morgan is his deputy. Is there a central midfield spine in there somewhere?
4 of this 8 are contracted for next season.
It is similar challenge with the pot pourri of the attacking third. Leko, Lee, Blackett Taylor, Jayiesmi, Stockley, Washington, Davison, and Kirk
Could someone kindly point me in the direction of a measure of complementary skills and balance not just across these additional 8 names but the entire 14 players currently eligible for the front 6 positions.
3 of this last 8 are contracted for next season.
I ask just for friend because without such balance you have no opportunity to build continuity and consistency of performance.
The friend of the club? A guy who has served it with distinction for a decade.
Perhaps we could all remember this when the final whistle of the Sunderland match blows.
Whats done is done. It is in the past. A decent guy has paid a heavy price. It is no longer about addressing his performance.
It is now about Mr Jackson. He has a very real journey to travel here. Will the « wheels on the bus » be quite ready to go « round and round » tomorrow? I suspect not.
Damp squib? Nah - It is a matter of realistic perspective.
While I don't agree with hoofing it up to Stockley, if the players are happier with a long ball approach tomorrow, fair enough, as long as it is married to genuine effort and endeavours.
I'd love a win, but would rip your arm off to see the players no longer accepting a humiliation as the norm.
Anything above safety had to be a bonus now.
But Sunderland will get some kind of Pyrrhic victory tomorrow.
Lavelle Famewo Deji
clare Dobson Purrington
Lee. Gilbey
Lecko
Davison
Jacko & Jason’s Red Army
Sean Dyche used 4-4-2 when attacking and 4-4-1-1 when out of possession week in week out from League one to Premier for so many years that players always knew what they were doing. Easy for players to slot in.
Various wide players have been used by Burnley in recent years but they have to work hard: JBG, Lennon and McNeil etc.
Lennon didn't stay too often as he didn't really fit in. Both Yóhann and Dwight can attack down the flank or go narrow.
Jackson will demand that it's mandatory to work hard. Players making poor decisions will hopefully lessen once the stress can disappear from our play and JJ and Jason can attempt to imbue the team with some emotional intelligence which has been lacking this season.
Sunderland have won all their home games so not entirely down to how we play. Arrogant to think that a team in 22nd place can just turn form on like a tap against a team with a 100% home record.
Sunderland 2 Cafc 1 but positives to work on for the next two home games.
2-1 Charlton. Lee and Stockley.
Wouldn’t have Dobson in there though not a fan rather the unfit Arter.
simple formation, each player knowing his role, ready to play the majority of the match, substitutions made for injury or tactical reasons only, unless someone has put in a massive shift and is cramping.
Each match played with an underdogs spirit, because right now, for most matches, that’s what we are. Underdogs.
I also think we need to get midfielders in who can play wide and cover the full backs but also tuck in to clog up the middle of the pitch if needed. A return to the diamond formation may be in order.
Washington is good enough to score goals at this level, I don’t see a team featuring him staying in the relegation zone much longer. He deserves an extended run up top and I’d give it to him.
My team:
—————MacGillivray
Elerewe - Lavelle - Pearce - Purrington
——————Dobson
————Clare —— Gilbey
———————Lee
———Stockley - Washington
2-0.
When people say 442 I assume they mean 2 center mids and two wide players, whether they are "wingers" or wide midfielders in the Jackson, Stuart or Beckham style?
If that's what they mean and they assume it's a position everyone would be comfortable with I really have to question that.
The top teams moved to either a lopsided 442 or 433 in the late 90s. Certainly Arsenals double winners would be described as 433 now. And ditched 442 completely in the early 00s. Youth teams have not consistently played 442 for years. I doubt Arter has ever played for a professional team who's default is 442. Kirk has spent his whole career at Crewe who play 4231/433 from the minute they play 11 aside. Dobson has never played, professionally in a 442 regularly.
It's produced a whole generation of midfielders, not just at Charlton, that are limited to either being AMs or DMs, CMs are like rocking horse shit. Because that's what kids in academies play. You can extend that to "wingers" as well, most modern ones couldn't play in a 442. Every time a manager puts an extra DM in they get pelters from Southgate and OGS down. The two that avoid it Pepe and Klopp get away with it by not playing a center forward.
The closest player we have to a CM is JFC. If you pair him with a Watson or a Dobson you become turgid, if you pair him with a Lee or a Gilbey you become chaotic. You could possibly get away with two JFCs.
Mac
Gunter Lavelle Pearce Purrington
Lecko Arter Watson Gilbey
Lee or Washington
Stockley
MacG
Purrington Pearce Lavelle Gunter
Soaure Gilbey Arter Clare
Lee
Stockley
Would need Lee to have the intelligence to drop into midfield when defending and join Stockley when attacking.
Hopefully we see a response from the players today.
Prediction? Who knows though would have been an easier guess if Adkins was still in charge. Going for a battling 2-1 defeat which would still be an improvement.
mac
matthews
lavelle
famewho
purrington
washington
dobson
arter
gilbey
stockley
leko
i like Lee a lot and i like CBT but this is a time for getting back to basics and they can be used from the bench / grafted into the side once we have restored some balance