Give Jacko the job now. Starting to think Sangaard is not just a bit eccentric and actually completely tone death when it comes to a few things, the womens stuff, his shite tune to name a few.
Give Jackson the f*cking job ahead of Saturday and it'll be a better atmosphere than Plymouth.
My own thoughts are the club originally wanted to stick to a model ie 433 & run it through all the age groups & recruitment with the 4 amigos agreeing jointly. I can only think Jacko may not agree with this & this is what the discussions are about!
Can you name a club where a team formation was adopted as a fixed strategy rather than a tactical decision which could be varied according to the strengths or otherwise of available players and/or that of the opposition on the day? I think its a pretty ridiculous idea.
Unfortunately it could be both a pretty ridiculous idea, but nevertheless one held by people of influence in the club. I am not suggesting that is actually the case, simply that in the Duchatelet era we saw some ridiculous ideas actually implemented…
Ajax.
Ok, tell me more
I dont watch much so-called elite football any more. I’m aware that Ajax have built a strong club culture based around a highly successful academy. And on the few occasions I’ve seen them they seem to play a fluid formation that was hard to figure out without help. Does that make it a fixed formation, running through the club?
Of course I remember (and loved) the old Ajax too.
Surely nobody is telling Thomas we can be the new Ajax?
On a similar theme, the Athletic has a good article on why the Leipzig corporate vehicle parted company with their American coach a week ago. Described a situation where he was supposed to deliver a certain way of playing ( back to their old successful high press/energy style) which didnt work because the current squad had been built around a different style, and some players were not suited to it. In a Charlton context it seems as if JJ has come in and delivered the playing style that TS wanted, and finally got to utilise effectively the players brought in to play to that style, esp. Dobson, Clare and DJ. Whereas Adkins, who was in the room when Clare and Dobson were agreed on, didnt seem to have a scooby about the formation they would work in. You’d imagine TS could only be delighted at this immediate delivery of his idea of how we should play, after the horrors of the first 2 months.
Weird.
Everyone's favourite 433.
"...Ajax is partly dependant on players from its own youth academy. The youth teams are trained in exactly the same way as the first team en these boys are therefore already accustomed to Ajax’s style of play.
Central within the club is the style of play (4-3-3), training, behaviour and house rules. Ajax strives to keep the way of playing football recognisable; attractive, offensive-minded, creative, fast, fair and preferably far away from the own goal on the opponents’ half...."
Why does someone have to be telling Thomas? I know it's against CL law to imply he might be in the wrong or have a shite idea, but, maybe, the bloke who spent X amount of money buying us and running us wants to see his investment- football club - built in certain way.
Or, yeah, Ged Roddy in the boardroom with the butter knife.
Well. If he wants to "keep the way of playing football recognisable; attractive, offensive-minded, creative, fast, fair and preferably far away from the own goal on the opponents’ half...." then I think we are all delighted and singing "bring it on' to a hard rock backing.
If however he has decided for some reason that the only way to achieve this - in the English 3rd Division - is to play 4-3-3, and only 4-3-3 - then we are back in Duchatelet la-la land.
And that's the potential question/ issue/ scares about nothing.
If such a plan exists (and I think it's safe to assume there is) then it's about the level of involvement, and how strict/ rigid it all is.
Nothing wrong with wanting to turn us into the next Ajax, but, baby steps and not trying to turn a league one team into a footballing showcase over a summer.
So, let Jackson start us on that journey and build it sensibly.
Well, I'm replying because I think its an interesting discussion, rather than to challenge your opinion, so please take it in this spirit, but I'm not sure it is a good idea to have Ajax as anything more than a very general reference point, when concluding as an owner what kind of football strategy you want your club to adopt (and it is a good idea, I agree, to have such a strategy - upt to a point). When it comes to the Ajax style, it is usually associated with Total Football, which is the complete opposite of a fixed formation approach. Now again, I want to say that many here will be much better tactical readers of the game than I, but the last time I watched the modern Ajax (the season they lost to Spurs), that looked a lot more like the old Total Football than 4-3-3.
But it's interesting that you nominated Ajax rather than a big FAPL club; it seems strategically smart to have a long term vision for the type of football you will play - if you are a club that absolutely dominates your nation, and is a natural magnet for talented kids from all around the major city where you reside, not to mention that country's colonies. If you are a club in the densely packed English league, where you could say that in the last 50 years around 60 other clubs have at various times considered themselves to be as "big" as you...well I think you have to be a bit more pragmatic.
This bothers me because while I'm not a tactical reader of football, fortunately I started my marketing career in a company that knew its stuff, and had it drummed into me the difference between Objectives/Strategy/Plan. For "plan" you can sub "tactics". I'm pretty ok that as a footie club you can have a *strategy* that you will tend to play in attacking style. because that is arguably what will please fans the most, and thus get them to pay more money to support you. And part of that strategy may well be to align all parts of the playing operation towards that general strategy. Makes sense. But going as far as to say, in order to deliver this attacking football you have to play 4-3-3...? Nah, sorry, formation is a purely tactical thing which you might not even play for a full 90 minutes before changing.
But I can imagine that there are people in football who come along preaching that due to their superior insights, they have proved that the only way to deliver "attacking/exciting football" is to play 4-3-3. To me they are the equivalent of those in marketing who climbed on the digital bandwagon and told the big companies that they should scrap all their TV ad budgets and shove it all into Facebook. They got traction for a while, but pretty quickly the likes of P&G and Unilever exposed them for what they are - charlatans. But they are still out there, preying on less strategically clued up businesses. Let's hope their football equivalent are not in Thomas' ear. But going back to your earlier point, someone is in Thomas' ear. That's to be expected. Unlike Duchatelet, Thomas has shown he isn't afraid to consult and pay for top quality advice in the relevant fields. Freshfields, Control Risks...so it would be natural, wise even to have football advisers to help him in an industry he knows nothing about. How else could he have hit upon the idea of replacing Bowyer with Adkins....
It's quite possible, and highly probable, that Thomas picked Adkins.
Thomas, and I don't mean this as a criticism, is like 99% of people that post on this forum. We could all probably go on mastermind and do well with football related questions, discuss tactics, formations and player attributes until the cows come home. But we have never done it.
He said he wanted an experienced manager. 3 promotions from the division, including back to back. If he followed the EPL via TV, which I strongly suspect, he probably knew who Adkins was. I suspect his CV ticked a lot of boxes, including bringing through young players.
I would imagine if you interviewed/met Adkins, based on the above you wouldn't need much convincing he knew what he was talking about.
It wasn't as much of a left field appointment as someone like Steve Kean or David Hockaday were. If it was a Roddy appointment I would have expected someone more like Boothroyd or Manning.
I'd agree it's quite possible. But equally, Thomas has as I mentioned earlier shown he is not afraid to spend top dollar on external experts on matters he hasn't encountered before. He will have recruited senior management before in his business life- but in a quite different business. He might or might not nowadays use external recruiters for Zynex, but if he didn't he'd definitely call on a network of people he trusts, to recommend somebody. He wouldn't have such a network, coming into English football.
The more I think about it, the more I doubt he would draw up a long-list completely on his own. Honestly, I've met (and assisted) so many top corporate directors who admitted that getting senior hiring right is one of the most difficult tasks they face, and they hate it, because it involves using quite different personal skills to those they normally use in the rest of their work.
I deffo agree with you about Adkins, that he "interviews well' - but then I'd feel as the interviewer at a huge disadvantage because I haven't got the knowledge or experience to detect bullshit in that field. I watched and listened to Ged Roddy on the Zoom call with Gallen, with great curiosity given the hoo-hah, and I had to concede that everything he said made perfect sense and was very well expressed. But then quite literally in this case, what do I know?
I would suggest that the long list was actually drawn up by letting it be known you were looking, quite how that is done is another matter and see who nibbled. I suspect that started about Christmas last year and may even have influenced our January transfer business.
Off the top of my head Bowyer left on the Monday and Adkins was in the building by Friday. So I think it was probably already in motion.
Football, probably like only politics, is a bit different to most business as in most people you speak to, if your the owner, will have an opinion on it. Including your son, your wife, your accountant, your lawyer, your marketing man etc etc. The wisdom is to know who to listen to when.
I also think that "business men" are mostly awful at picking football managers and don't apply as much diligence to it as they would in business. Maybe they don't see it as such as important role as fans, or "football people", do? Maybe evidenced by Thomas's suggestion that JJ could just go back to his old job?
Unfortunately I'm feeling more pessimistic about this the longer it goes on. He has to be given the job. Surely?! Whatever reason TS has for not giving him the job so far, I have no idea. Doesn't make sense especially with such a strong turnaround since Adkins.
Losing faith in TS the longer this drags on. If he can’t see what’s happening around him compared to before & the momentum that we’ve gained then he is blind, blinkered & bloody minded! Seems like he has been sold the dream from Roddy what with his 433 throughout & appointing Jacko goes against it!
Unfortunately I'm feeling more pessimistic about this the longer it goes on. He has to be given the job. Surely?! Whatever reason TS has for not giving him the job so far, I have no idea. Doesn't make sense especially with such a strong turnaround since Adkins.
Maybe Roddy is still going through his address book under D for Dinosaur
If, as seems to be rumoured, Jacko is only being offered until the end of the season, this is a massive error of judgement by Sandgaard which he will come to regret.
Unfortunately I'm feeling more pessimistic about this the longer it goes on. He has to be given the job. Surely?! Whatever reason TS has for not giving him the job so far, I have no idea. Doesn't make sense especially with such a strong turnaround since Adkins.
Maybe Roddy is still going through his address book under D for Dinosaur
roddy isn't flavour of the month and has been demoted below Gallen and TS's son - i could go into more details but probs best not too atm - if jacko isn't appointed, i'd be massively surprised
If, as seems to be rumoured, Jacko is only being offered until the end of the season, this is a massive error of judgement by Sandgaard which he will come to regret.
If true just shows he doesn't have a fucking clue on the football side of the club. Mind you after his comment that JJ can always go back to being an assistant he's already proven that.
Steve brown speculated tonight at Bromley Addicks that the contract length might be an issue. More a rumour he'd heard rather than ITK (or maybe he was being careful with what he was saying.) Browny did think it was close.
@killerjerrylee then gave the meeting a quick update from the fans forum where of course this got a mention.
As I recall, Ian said TS said new manager appointed maybe this week but could run into next week's as agents involved.
Steve brown speculated tonight at Bromley Addicks that the contract length might be an issue. More a rumour he'd heard rather than ITK (or maybe he was being careful with what he was saying.) Browny did think it was close.
@killerjerrylee then gave the meeting a quick update from the fans forum where of course this got a mention.
As I recall, Ian said TS said new manager appointed maybe this week but could run into next week's as agents involved.
The assumption was the new manager is JJ but.....
WIOTOS
If it isn't Jackson especially after these 13 games, there will be a riot.
Losing faith in TS the longer this drags on. If he can’t see what’s happening around him compared to before & the momentum that we’ve gained then he is blind, blinkered & bloody minded! Seems like he has been sold the dream from Roddy what with his 433 throughout & appointing Jacko goes against it!
It’s actually pissing me off now!
Is Roddy the architect or the builder? As I have said before Thomas knows a lot about football, and will have ideas about it, like all of us. The question is though does he listen to the professionals more than he listens to his son, partner or his own ideas. A wise man would leave it to the pros and sack them of they don't perform.
Steve brown speculated tonight at Bromley Addicks that the contract length might be an issue. More a rumour he'd heard rather than ITK (or maybe he was being careful with what he was saying.) Browny did think it was close.
@killerjerrylee then gave the meeting a quick update from the fans forum where of course this got a mention.
As I recall, Ian said TS said new manager appointed maybe this week but could run into next week's as agents involved.
The assumption was the new manager is JJ but.....
WIOTOS
If it isn't Jackson especially after these 13 games, there will be a riot.
There won't. There wasn't when Powell was sacked. It could be the end of the beginning though.
A half century for JJ in which from his first session in charge, the players understood about playing for the shirt.
It was going to be mandatory to give 100% for Cafc, and leaving everything on the pitch.
3-5-2 where we get forward in numbers, and when necessary, 5-3-2 when the opposition have to break us down. This can only work with power house player who can run marathons. JJ literally can run marathons, and Gilbey who put in a masterclass of a midfield performance against Ipswich, not seen since Conor Gallagher was cruelly taken away from us by the evil Chelski half way through his loan period.
50 days in which it seems we went from the unfitest team in the League to every players could run like Gilbey and Washington.
Just my opinion but when you are given the caretakers job at Sunderland with just over 48 hours to prepare, and they were on a crest of a wave with a 100% home record it felt like Johnnie was being set up to fail; not only didn't he fail but he succeeded in changing the mindset of Charlton fans/ critics who were trying to recover from the stench of Southall and Co.
I was gutted JJ didn't get the Job last season but the time is right now and pleased that Jacko wants the job on his terms. If Thomas Sandgaard really is as ambitious as he stated with his comments at the end of last season then the skipper who played 445 League games, 15 England games from U17 to U20, 70 goals, Pro licenced Coach, gets the full time job of CAFC on his terms because he isn't the "cheap option' But he is by far the best option.
If @Mendonca In Asdas is still counting this time next week then Sandgaard can't quite be the super hero that kicked out the odious Southall and Co.
Johnnie Jackson Full time Charlton athletic manager (not head coach with only a quarter say in Recruitment) will/must be announced ASAP.
If the delay is about contract length, fair play to Jacko. Needs at least 2 years.
The stupid thing is he already has 18 months on his contract, all it needs is the assistant crossed out and a naught added to the salary. How hard can it be?
If the delay is about contract length, fair play to Jacko. Needs at least 2 years.
The stupid thing is he already has 18 months on his contract, all it needs is the assistant crossed out and a naught added to the salary. How hard can it be?
any news back on the FF last night - someone must've asked the direct question?
@Henry Irving indicates in his post above that it was.
I'd hope somebody in attendance will report in more detail to the rest of us this morning. I can't think of anything more important to come out of a Fans Forum than news on this issue, although I'm aware that some fans on Twitter considered that the provision and quality of Bovril was the key thing on the agenda.
The stupid thing is he already has 18 months on his contract, all it needs is the assistant crossed out and a naught added to the salary. How hard can it be?
Has to be right for both parties. I agree it is a no brainer, the team are a world away from those that turned up at the start of the season.
But perhaps Jacko wants to make sure he has everything that he needs to succeed. That may be the length of contract, but must also be other things such as budgets, plans for club & team plus staff responsibilities.
For example I imagine Jason Euell is a big part of the current success, I would want to ensure that not just myself were in place, but also my team were secure for the length of my contract.
rumours on Twitter that JJ will only be given a deal until the end of the season. Take it for what you will, no idea on the origin of the story.
An absolute insult to JJ if true. If true he should tell him to stick it
I'm hearing a two year deal from someone not that close to the club, could be BS but could be true as they're a friend of a friends of a member of non-playing staff.
Would prefer three, but whatever they're both happy to agree for now is the right deal.
If it's to the end of the season and then there's a clause to renew for two years after, that seems decent too.
If it's just 6 months and then normal renegotiations then I agree, that'd be stupid from both a business and a respect perspective. If we do well Jacko's stock will have risen considerably from what he'd probably ask for right now.
Fenlandaddict you are correct and JJ is not only a great football guy on and off the pitch but at 39 and over 20 years in pro football knows when you are in a strong position to negotiate. JJ isn't a soft touch and quite rightly wants his contract to be correct and knows that certain players will be offered contract extensions soon, not a week before the season ends. JJ is very ambitious to be Cafc manager and take this club forward. Let's really hope Thomas Sandgaard can match Jacko's aims and goals for our Club.
Why does it need to be until the end of the season, 2 years or 3 years?
It should just be open ended. If we sack you we pay you x and if you fuck off else where we get y. Either side can give 6 months notice without penalty.
Seems fair to me.
Jackson is already the 73rd longest serving manager of the 92.
Why does it need to be until the end of the season, 2 years or 3 years?
It should just be open ended. If we sack you we pay you x and if you fuck off else where we get y. Either side can give 6 months notice without penalty.
Seems fair to me.
Jackson is already the 73rd longest serving manager of the 92.
Would be pretty different in terms of Management Contracts but think its the better approach
Just had a phone call from Johnnie about the upcoming match at the weekend, was going to ask him about team selection and the fact I was pushing him on Charlton life, he promptly cut me off before I could answer.
Comments
Give Jackson the f*cking job ahead of Saturday and it'll be a better atmosphere than Plymouth.
Off the top of my head Bowyer left on the Monday and Adkins was in the building by Friday. So I think it was probably already in motion.
Football, probably like only politics, is a bit different to most business as in most people you speak to, if your the owner, will have an opinion on it. Including your son, your wife, your accountant, your lawyer, your marketing man etc etc. The wisdom is to know who to listen to when.
I also think that "business men" are mostly awful at picking football managers and don't apply as much diligence to it as they would in business. Maybe they don't see it as such as important role as fans, or "football people", do? Maybe evidenced by Thomas's suggestion that JJ could just go back to his old job?
Whatever reason TS has for not giving him the job so far, I have no idea. Doesn't make sense especially with such a strong turnaround since Adkins.
@killerjerrylee then gave the meeting a quick update from the fans forum where of course this got a mention.
As I recall, Ian said TS said new manager appointed maybe this week but could run into next week's as agents involved.
The assumption was the new manager is JJ but.....
WIOTOS
A half century for JJ in which from his first session in charge, the players understood about playing for the shirt.
It was going to be mandatory to give 100% for Cafc, and leaving everything on the pitch.
3-5-2 where we get forward in numbers, and when necessary, 5-3-2 when the opposition have to break us down. This can only work with power house player who can run marathons. JJ literally can run marathons, and Gilbey who put in a masterclass of a midfield performance against Ipswich, not seen since Conor Gallagher was cruelly taken away from us by the evil Chelski half way through his loan period.
50 days in which it seems we went from the unfitest team in the League to every players could run like Gilbey and Washington.
Just my opinion but when you are given the caretakers job at Sunderland with just over 48 hours to prepare, and they were on a crest of a wave with a 100% home record it felt like Johnnie was being set up to fail; not only didn't he fail but he succeeded in changing the mindset of Charlton fans/ critics who were trying to recover from the stench of Southall and Co.
I was gutted JJ didn't get the Job last season but the time is right now and pleased that Jacko wants the job on his terms. If Thomas Sandgaard really is as ambitious as he stated with his comments at the end of last season then the skipper who played 445 League games, 15 England games from U17 to U20, 70 goals, Pro licenced Coach, gets the full time job of CAFC on his terms because he isn't the "cheap option' But he is by far the best option.
If @Mendonca In Asdas is still counting this time next week then Sandgaard can't quite be the super hero that kicked out the odious Southall and Co.
Johnnie Jackson Full time Charlton athletic manager (not head coach with only a quarter say in Recruitment) will/must be announced ASAP.
I know you got your fingers burnt with Nigel, but The longer this drags on the more harm it will cause.
Ged Roddy's hid all the pens.
I'd hope somebody in attendance will report in more detail to the rest of us this morning. I can't think of anything more important to come out of a Fans Forum than news on this issue, although I'm aware that some fans on Twitter considered that the provision and quality of Bovril was the key thing on the agenda.
Would prefer three, but whatever they're both happy to agree for now is the right deal.
If it's to the end of the season and then there's a clause to renew for two years after, that seems decent too.
If it's just 6 months and then normal renegotiations then I agree, that'd be stupid from both a business and a respect perspective. If we do well Jacko's stock will have risen considerably from what he'd probably ask for right now.
JJ isn't a soft touch and quite rightly wants his contract to be correct and knows that certain players will be offered contract extensions soon, not a week before the season ends.
JJ is very ambitious to be Cafc manager and take this club forward. Let's really hope Thomas Sandgaard can match Jacko's aims and goals for our Club.
It should just be open ended. If we sack you we pay you x and if you fuck off else where we get y. Either side can give 6 months notice without penalty.
Seems fair to me.
Jackson is already the 73rd longest serving manager of the 92.