One thing I don't understand is why JJ was allowed to change the formation from 4-3-3 immediately on his appointment? If it was recognised by Gallen / Roddy, etc. that 4-3-3 wasn't working under Adkins, sure Nigel should have been given the opportunity to use a different system(s) before he was sacked? What am I missing?
Nigel played a 352 twice so that breaks any idea he was being forced to play a formation. When we first appointed him, we knew he'd primarily be playing the 4231 here because that's his system.
It's not really that unusual for a manager to blindly stick to something that's not working... Ala Karl Robinson...
I saw it as a 50/50
Adkins was brought in because his coaching style and preferred formation fits the plan, he stuck to it apart from 2 games, desperation to make the system work? Maybe.
It didn't work out, was he really going to admit to his employer that he couldn't do what he was hired to do? Probably not.
We now have the boss' son around, who, will probably find it easier reporting back the thoughts and opinions.
But, one thing's for sure, Ged Roddy is to blame.
Blame for what?
I am genuinely interested in what the football areas of concern are that have prompted the appointment.
Are there issues with the training ground, the facilities, the medical team, away travel for the players, transfer targets, new manager targets? Something he wanted done has not been and it appears that something he was told was not quite true.
First time I really watched Gilbey at a game on Saturday, and thought he looked a wonderful player at this level, didn't appreciate what he offers just by watching the telly
This is all about having a club wide joined up strategy and I can see why they would want that, obvious issues are that the strategy is a correct one, and then if it can be implemented. There are risks around every strategy of course and making the right hires is a big part of that.
The TS' son thing is a bit of a puzzle though especially some of the quotes in the media about it, so I can completely understand people being intrigued by it, shows TS to be a fairly open straightforward guy which is a good thing, right?
One thing I don't understand is why JJ was allowed to change the formation from 4-3-3 immediately on his appointment? If it was recognised by Gallen / Roddy, etc. that 4-3-3 wasn't working under Adkins, sure Nigel should have been given the opportunity to use a different system(s) before he was sacked? What am I missing?
Nigel played a 352 twice so that breaks any idea he was being forced to play a formation. When we first appointed him, we knew he'd primarily be playing the 4231 here because that's his system.
It's not really that unusual for a manager to blindly stick to something that's not working... Ala Karl Robinson...
I saw it as a 50/50
Adkins was brought in because his coaching style and preferred formation fits the plan, he stuck to it apart from 2 games, desperation to make the system work? Maybe.
It didn't work out, was he really going to admit to his employer that he couldn't do what he was hired to do? Probably not.
We now have the boss' son around, who, will probably find it easier reporting back the thoughts and opinions.
But, one thing's for sure, Ged Roddy is to blame.
Blame for what?
I am genuinely interested in what the football areas of concern are that have prompted the appointment.
Are there issues with the training ground, the facilities, the medical team, away travel for the players, transfer targets, new manager targets? Something he wanted done has not been and it appears that something he was told was not quite true.
He hired his best pal Adkins, refused to tell Sandgaard he was doing shite, tells Sandgaard what to say when it's a "negative" interview, hates Jackson, is actually running the whole club how HE wants and was most probably the second gunman in Dallas.
One thing I don't understand is why JJ was allowed to change the formation from 4-3-3 immediately on his appointment? If it was recognised by Gallen / Roddy, etc. that 4-3-3 wasn't working under Adkins, sure Nigel should have been given the opportunity to use a different system(s) before he was sacked? What am I missing?
Nigel played a 352 twice so that breaks any idea he was being forced to play a formation. When we first appointed him, we knew he'd primarily be playing the 4231 here because that's his system.
It's not really that unusual for a manager to blindly stick to something that's not working... Ala Karl Robinson...
I saw it as a 50/50
Adkins was brought in because his coaching style and preferred formation fits the plan, he stuck to it apart from 2 games, desperation to make the system work? Maybe.
It didn't work out, was he really going to admit to his employer that he couldn't do what he was hired to do? Probably not.
We now have the boss' son around, who, will probably find it easier reporting back the thoughts and opinions.
But, one thing's for sure, Ged Roddy is to blame.
Blame for what?
I am genuinely interested in what the football areas of concern are that have prompted the appointment.
Are there issues with the training ground, the facilities, the medical team, away travel for the players, transfer targets, new manager targets? Something he wanted done has not been and it appears that something he was told was not quite true.
He hired his best pal Adkins, refused to tell Sandgaard he was doing shite, tells Sandgaard what to say when it's a "negative" interview, hates Jackson, is actually running the whole club how HE wants and was most probably the second gunman in Dallas.
Welcome Martin. Seems you have arrived in the nick of time.
Just asking the question. I was pretty adamant that I wanted to know who put Thomas, Roddy and to some degree Mumford together. My question on the CAST Q and A did not really answer this with Ged Roddy. I also have asked Thomas via email twice. He did not reply but does usually respond to most stuff (of course it may not be him responding I know).
Is there now the possibility that Martin Sandgaard may actually be the one that has put all this together with Guitar Dad's money? And this is now why he's been deployed to sort it out locally?
I'm inclined to agree with @Grapevine49: if the business plan is (partially) to buy young up-and-coming players and sell them on at a profit, then not playing wingers after hiring Kirk, DJ and CBT may be a cause for concern when looked at by the board.
I think sooner or later they will still have to come to the conclusion that JJ is the right hire to take us to the Championship but a few circles must be squared first.
But DJ has probably increased his value in recent games. CBT has been signed and used in games. Kirk wasn't doing himself much good in the 4-3-3 formation. He has a hard time of it and who is to say he won't adapt going forwards as DJ has done.
I generally agree with the analysis by @Grapevine49 but would make two comments.
Firstly, you can have as many certificates and as much playing and academic coaching experience in the room as you like without it amounting to the required qualities for successful professional football management.
Secondly, his repetition that everyone comes in to work every day to do their best was not my experience over 14 years of working in professional football. I can think of multiple individuals whose principal interest was in trousering as much money as possible and exploiting any available gap in oversight to do so. Doing as little as possible that might expose their agenda / lack of competence was their aim.
I generally agree with the analysis by @Grapevine49 but would make two comments.
Firstly, you can have as many certificates and as much playing and academic coaching experience in the room as you like without it amounting to the required qualities for successful professional football management.
Secondly, his repetition that everyone comes in to work every day to do their best was not my experience over 14 years of working in professional football. I can think of multiple individuals whose principal interest was in trousering as much money as possible and exploiting any available gap in oversight to do so. Doing as little as possible that might expose their agenda / lack of competence was their aim.
There are also different styles of manager, not just in football. There are ones that are bastards and ones that are loved for instance. There are ones that can get the most out of people and maybe, this is more of a quality where money is tight where you just can't go out and buy the very best.
Let's be honest, some of us were writing off players who are doing brilliantly now.
Ok so the possible issue inside the club is maybe starting to take shape here, but I still find it a bit difficult to believe we have nailed it. The question is what aspect of the Grand Plan is Jacko seen not to buy into, and who has the problem with it?
I am sure it is not the strategic idea of investing in young players who can be sold at a profit when necessary. I think nearly all of us basically accepted it.
I am sure it is not dispute about how the recruitment actually went, because three of the very players whom so many derided for their initial perrformances, have been brought back in by Jacko and are playing out of their skins.
That leaves the idea that part of the Grand Plan is to play 4-3-3. That’s not a strategic idea, but a tactical one at best, and it has to be varied for all kinds of reasons. Who could have insisted on such a concept? I can’t imagine Steve Gallen, so that leaves TS himself, Roddy, and Adkins. I still struggle with the idea that this is it. It simply lacks common sense. I can buy the idea that Thomas wants us to play attacking football, and with wingers. Well I think we’ve heard from enough Plymouth fans about whether or not we were doing that. I think DJ has permanently traumatised some of them. Anyone who dogmatically insisted that the only way to win games and make the fans proud is to play 4-3-3, would be an idiot. I dont think TS or Roddy are idiots.
So personally I remain far from clear that we know what’s going on here.
It would be prudent to also still consider that TS knows that the start has been a horrible failure, and he just owes it to himself to take his time and be sure that he considered all available options.
Don’t get me wrong. I thought Saturday was a game-changer from start to finish. The pivotal moment that we all, including TS, expected to enjoy back at the season opener. I cannot imagine anything but a shitshow if he now brings in someone else. I’m just still a bit wary of the conspiracy theories.
I don't think TS is a gambling man but if he chooses to not appoint Jacko he really needs to get it right.
It needs to be a change like Southampton did when (funnily enough) they binned off Adkins and got Pochettino. Surely he won't take that gamble and risk losing so much goodwill and results on a 'chance'?
Ok so the possible issue inside the club is maybe starting to take shape here, but I still find it a bit difficult to believe we have nailed it. The question is what aspect of the Grand Plan is Jacko seen not to buy into, and who has the problem with it?
I am sure it is not the strategic idea of investing in young players who can be sold at a profit when necessary. I think nearly all of us basically accepted it.
I am sure it is not dispute about how the recruitment actually went, because three of the very players whom so many derided for their initial perrformances, have been brought back in by Jacko and are playing out of their skins.
That leaves the idea that part of the Grand Plan is to play 4-3-3. That’s not a strategic idea, but a tactical one at best, and it has to be varied for all kinds of reasons. Who could have insisted on such a concept? I can’t imagine Steve Gallen, so that leaves TS himself, Roddy, and Adkins. I still struggle with the idea that this is it. It simply lacks common sense. I can buy the idea that Thomas wants us to play attacking football, and with wingers. Well I think we’ve heard from enough Plymouth fans about whether or not we were doing that. I think DJ has permanently traumatised some of them. Anyone who dogmatically insisted that the only way to win games and make the fans proud is to play 4-3-3, would be an idiot. I dont think TS or Roddy are idiots.
So personally I remain far from clear that we know what’s going on here.
It would be prudent to also still consider that TS knows that the start has been a horrible failure, and he just owes it to himself to take his time and be sure that he considered all available options.
Don’t get me wrong. I thought Saturday was a game-changer from start to finish. The pivotal moment that we all, including TS, expected to enjoy back at the season opener. I cannot imagine anything but a shitshow if he now brings in someone else. I’m just still a bit wary of the conspiracy theories.
Perhaps Jackson is aware of how little say Adkins had in the recruitment policy and wants a bit more of a say?
May I suggest, MS has been bought in to oversee the football side as stated. TS was not disappointed with the transfers, but the manner in which they were conducted. He is totally against the excessive agents and their fees. He has made this crystal clear, however sitting in America his views were disregarded, he is annoyed, hence all future football matters now go through his son for final and immediate approval. It is his family money the club is giving to greedy agents!
Did we ever have chapter & verse on the rumour that Roddy left Reading with a reputation of being difficult to work with?
A square peg surrounded by round ones has the potential to cause all sorts of difficulties, even if everyone is perfectly competent at their jobs and working as hard as they can. It may work for a while before personality differences start to grate.
To someone outside the group, the source of the disharmony may be difficult to identify during occasional visits; maybe this is why TS wants his son there as a trusted longer-term observer of the group dynamics?
Ok so the possible issue inside the club is maybe starting to take shape here, but I still find it a bit difficult to believe we have nailed it. The question is what aspect of the Grand Plan is Jacko seen not to buy into, and who has the problem with it?
I am sure it is not the strategic idea of investing in young players who can be sold at a profit when necessary. I think nearly all of us basically accepted it.
I am sure it is not dispute about how the recruitment actually went, because three of the very players whom so many derided for their initial perrformances, have been brought back in by Jacko and are playing out of their skins.
That leaves the idea that part of the Grand Plan is to play 4-3-3. That’s not a strategic idea, but a tactical one at best, and it has to be varied for all kinds of reasons. Who could have insisted on such a concept? I can’t imagine Steve Gallen, so that leaves TS himself, Roddy, and Adkins. I still struggle with the idea that this is it. It simply lacks common sense. I can buy the idea that Thomas wants us to play attacking football, and with wingers. Well I think we’ve heard from enough Plymouth fans about whether or not we were doing that. I think DJ has permanently traumatised some of them. Anyone who dogmatically insisted that the only way to win games and make the fans proud is to play 4-3-3, would be an idiot. I dont think TS or Roddy are idiots.
So personally I remain far from clear that we know what’s going on here.
It would be prudent to also still consider that TS knows that the start has been a horrible failure, and he just owes it to himself to take his time and be sure that he considered all available options.
Don’t get me wrong. I thought Saturday was a game-changer from start to finish. The pivotal moment that we all, including TS, expected to enjoy back at the season opener. I cannot imagine anything but a shitshow if he now brings in someone else. I’m just still a bit wary of the conspiracy theories.
You have worked in multi national business. I would be interested in your opinion on this.
Do you think there is a trust issue with Thomas now? He put together a team to deliver, quite simple objectives, and it's failed quite spectacularly. You would want to know exactly why it didn't just not succeed but blew up with little to know warning, wouldn't you?
Secondly does all this talk of pathways and interchangeable jobs, eg Jacko going back to a number 2, sound more like something a American CEO would say than anyone involved in English football?
First time I really watched Gilbey at a game on Saturday, and thought he looked a wonderful player at this level, didn't appreciate what he offers just by watching the telly
One thing I’ve noticed which I am not sure I saw much of last year (again could be a TV thing) is he appears to be much more vocal on the pitch than I thought. Which I like.
Ok so the possible issue inside the club is maybe starting to take shape here, but I still find it a bit difficult to believe we have nailed it. The question is what aspect of the Grand Plan is Jacko seen not to buy into, and who has the problem with it?
I am sure it is not the strategic idea of investing in young players who can be sold at a profit when necessary. I think nearly all of us basically accepted it.
I am sure it is not dispute about how the recruitment actually went, because three of the very players whom so many derided for their initial perrformances, have been brought back in by Jacko and are playing out of their skins.
That leaves the idea that part of the Grand Plan is to play 4-3-3. That’s not a strategic idea, but a tactical one at best, and it has to be varied for all kinds of reasons. Who could have insisted on such a concept? I can’t imagine Steve Gallen, so that leaves TS himself, Roddy, and Adkins. I still struggle with the idea that this is it. It simply lacks common sense. I can buy the idea that Thomas wants us to play attacking football, and with wingers. Well I think we’ve heard from enough Plymouth fans about whether or not we were doing that. I think DJ has permanently traumatised some of them. Anyone who dogmatically insisted that the only way to win games and make the fans proud is to play 4-3-3, would be an idiot. I dont think TS or Roddy are idiots.
So personally I remain far from clear that we know what’s going on here.
It would be prudent to also still consider that TS knows that the start has been a horrible failure, and he just owes it to himself to take his time and be sure that he considered all available options.
Don’t get me wrong. I thought Saturday was a game-changer from start to finish. The pivotal moment that we all, including TS, expected to enjoy back at the season opener. I cannot imagine anything but a shitshow if he now brings in someone else. I’m just still a bit wary of the conspiracy theories.
Very good take. TS is not a football man and relies on football men to tell him what's what. They put a team together who between them got us to 23 in the league. I also doubt he knows JJ very well as he was not in the insider planning group. If I were TS now I would want to know how JJ has turned a side who were 'not fit to wear the shirt' a month ago into a winning team. Who is going to tell him the truth in this situation? Probably not the people who got us into the s**t. The slow recruitment which helped get us off to a poor start was down to them. His son's presence may be a way of him finding out what went wrong. All else is guesswork but I doubt he will appoint JJ until he has some answers.
@PragueAddick has hit on exactly what I've been thinking. This idea that forming a club style of play is at the strategic level, not the tactical. I can't understand how that idea has been taken as anything else. It's not that at every level the club plays a specific formation. It's a style and an intention. Attacking and expansive versus defensive and deliberate, for example. Or even fluid versus rigid. Ultimately, it's about establishing a style the results in winning and not losing.
Whether it's 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 or whatever, that's the way you accomplish the style. And surely, that can even change during a match! Can you imagine Sandguaard blowing his top because MacGillivray was brought out of goal in 94th minute at Wembley and headed in the winner? "He's our keeper... Why was he out of position???... we paid Stockley to score that goal!" It makes no sense. I make Prague's analysis absolutely right.
Ok so the possible issue inside the club is maybe starting to take shape here, but I still find it a bit difficult to believe we have nailed it. The question is what aspect of the Grand Plan is Jacko seen not to buy into, and who has the problem with it?
I am sure it is not the strategic idea of investing in young players who can be sold at a profit when necessary. I think nearly all of us basically accepted it.
I am sure it is not dispute about how the recruitment actually went, because three of the very players whom so many derided for their initial perrformances, have been brought back in by Jacko and are playing out of their skins.
That leaves the idea that part of the Grand Plan is to play 4-3-3. That’s not a strategic idea, but a tactical one at best, and it has to be varied for all kinds of reasons. Who could have insisted on such a concept? I can’t imagine Steve Gallen, so that leaves TS himself, Roddy, and Adkins. I still struggle with the idea that this is it. It simply lacks common sense. I can buy the idea that Thomas wants us to play attacking football, and with wingers. Well I think we’ve heard from enough Plymouth fans about whether or not we were doing that. I think DJ has permanently traumatised some of them. Anyone who dogmatically insisted that the only way to win games and make the fans proud is to play 4-3-3, would be an idiot. I dont think TS or Roddy are idiots.
So personally I remain far from clear that we know what’s going on here.
It would be prudent to also still consider that TS knows that the start has been a horrible failure, and he just owes it to himself to take his time and be sure that he considered all available options.
Don’t get me wrong. I thought Saturday was a game-changer from start to finish. The pivotal moment that we all, including TS, expected to enjoy back at the season opener. I cannot imagine anything but a shitshow if he now brings in someone else. I’m just still a bit wary of the conspiracy theories.
You have worked in multi national business. I would be interested in your opinion on this.
Do you think there is a trust issue with Thomas now? He put together a team to deliver, quite simple objectives, and it's failed quite spectacularly. You would want to know exactly why it didn't just not succeed but blew up with little to know warning, wouldn't you?
Secondly does all this talk of pathways and interchangeable jobs, eg Jacko going back to a number 2, sound more like something a American CEO would say than anyone involved in English football?
Re your first point, yes I think that may be a factor behind him apparently not wanting to be rushed.
second point, I’ve been thinking about his corporate culture but came to a different conclusion. I never saw anything like interchangeable jobs in the likes of Coke or McDonalds or HBO, to name some US companies I worked with. Caveat, I never worked with the new digital mob. But then again his biz is medical. You need absolute reliability there. I’d have thought its the last kind of biz where you can get creative with job roles.
However he’s Danish, and that includes his formative biz years. The “committee” thing, that’s very Scandi. It works, for them, because it is part of the culture, but Brits in private biz with big egos, hate committees. I’ve been pondering that that didnt work as TS expected. But that is nothing to do with Jacko, he wasn’t in that room.
Comments
The TS' son thing is a bit of a puzzle though especially some of the quotes in the media about it, so I can completely understand people being intrigued by it, shows TS to be a fairly open straightforward guy which is a good thing, right?
He hired his best pal Adkins, refused to tell Sandgaard he was doing shite, tells Sandgaard what to say when it's a "negative" interview, hates Jackson, is actually running the whole club how HE wants and was most probably the second gunman in Dallas.
Is there now the possibility that Martin Sandgaard may actually be the one that has put all this together with Guitar Dad's money? And this is now why he's been deployed to sort it out locally?
I think sooner or later they will still have to come to the conclusion that JJ is the right hire to take us to the Championship but a few circles must be squared first.
Firstly, you can have as many certificates and as much playing and academic coaching experience in the room as you like without it amounting to the required qualities for successful professional football management.
Let's be honest, some of us were writing off players who are doing brilliantly now.
I am sure it is not dispute about how the recruitment actually went, because three of the very players whom so many derided for their initial perrformances, have been brought back in by Jacko and are playing out of their skins.
That leaves the idea that part of the Grand Plan is to play 4-3-3. That’s not a strategic idea, but a tactical one at best, and it has to be varied for all kinds of reasons. Who could have insisted on such a concept? I can’t imagine Steve Gallen, so that leaves TS himself, Roddy, and Adkins. I still struggle with the idea that this is it. It simply lacks common sense. I can buy the idea that Thomas wants us to play attacking football, and with wingers. Well I think we’ve heard from enough Plymouth fans about whether or not we were doing that. I think DJ has permanently traumatised some of them. Anyone who dogmatically insisted that the only way to win games and make the fans proud is to play 4-3-3, would be an idiot. I dont think TS or Roddy are idiots.
So personally I remain far from clear that we know what’s going on here.
It needs to be a change like Southampton did when (funnily enough) they binned off Adkins and got Pochettino. Surely he won't take that gamble and risk losing so much goodwill and results on a 'chance'?
A square peg surrounded by round ones has the potential to cause all sorts of difficulties, even if everyone is perfectly competent at their jobs and working as hard as they can. It may work for a while before personality differences start to grate.
To someone outside the group, the source of the disharmony may be difficult to identify during occasional visits; maybe this is why TS wants his son there as a trusted longer-term observer of the group dynamics?
Do you think there is a trust issue with Thomas now? He put together a team to deliver, quite simple objectives, and it's failed quite spectacularly. You would want to know exactly why it didn't just not succeed but blew up with little to know warning, wouldn't you?
Secondly does all this talk of pathways and interchangeable jobs, eg Jacko going back to a number 2, sound more like something a American CEO would say than anyone involved in English football?
If I were TS now I would want to know how JJ has turned a side who were 'not fit to wear the shirt' a month ago into a winning team. Who is going to tell him the truth in this situation? Probably not the people who got us into the s**t. The slow recruitment which helped get us off to a poor start was down to them. His son's presence may be a way of him finding out what went wrong.
All else is guesswork but I doubt he will appoint JJ until he has some answers.
Whether it's 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 or whatever, that's the way you accomplish the style. And surely, that can even change during a match! Can you imagine Sandguaard blowing his top because MacGillivray was brought out of goal in 94th minute at Wembley and headed in the winner? "He's our keeper... Why was he out of position???... we paid Stockley to score that goal!" It makes no sense. I make Prague's analysis absolutely right.
second point, I’ve been thinking about his corporate culture but came to a different conclusion. I never saw anything like interchangeable jobs in the likes of Coke or McDonalds or HBO, to name some US companies I worked with. Caveat, I never worked with the new digital mob. But then again his biz is medical. You need absolute reliability there. I’d have thought its the last kind of biz where you can get creative with job roles.