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Charlton Only - January 2022 Transfer Rumours (Deadline Day p.97)

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  • esseffect said:
    Croydon said:
    Let's be honest, we only kept Watson because he triggered a contract extension and no-one was going to take him off us
    Should have stopped playing him last season as soon as we were close to the number of appearances needed for the extension.
    There was a moment last night where Hartlepool tried breaking from our corner - the ball flew in his direction and he was completely unready for it. He ended up shanking it behind him and falling over.

    Not to mention he completely failed to close down the bloke who scored their equalizing goal. Post match, Jackson said the team had spoken about how he likes to cut in and shoot from his left foot. Watson got had all that knowledge in his head but still got nowhere near him.

    If he didn't believe his playing career is dead after last night, I think he might be delusional.
    My favourite bit is when the lad scored, Watson looks to his left and throws his arms up to immediately blame someone else. No one was there…
    Perfect coach material?? Please, no.
    No need we have Yeovils main man  :(
  • edited January 2022
    Hi all. Really interesting reading your views on the squad but this thread is titled 'transfer rumours'. Are there any? And either way can we bitch and moan about the current squad on other, more appropriate, threads?
    Putting a nice big red X on my transfer rumour thread bingo card - thank you. :-)
  • Kirk having medical at Blackpool. Article is from yesterday but don’t remember that being the headline.

    https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-athletic-winger-charlie-kirk-undergoing-blackpool-medical/
  • cabbles said:
    My gut feeling was that over the summer analytics took precedence over traditional scouting and squad building.

    There is a place for both but a computer algorithm isn't the same as knowing if a player will be happy in London or if he'll play well in a different formation with different players and, as it turned out, under a different manager.

    It doesn't help, IMHO, if one of the analysts is in Australia and the neither of the then manager or Head of Recruitment have the final say.

    Add the budget not being as big as those of Ipswich and Wigan and not realising that many of the league 1 and 2 players we were targeting would go to the championship because if we thought they were good so would others with deeper pockets and you can get a feel for what was, IMHO, going on over the summer.

    But we still made some strong signings IMHO

    Stockley, Famewo, Macca, Lavelle, Dobson, Clare, even Lee and Leko at times, were/are decent signings at this level.

    Arter, Souare, Kirk, for different reasons, weren't.

    So the squad had some quality as it showed when JJ took over but it also relies on Stockley far too much and their confidence is fragile.  Innis and Lavelle have been big misses too.

    Players like DJ can be brilliant or invisible but thats why he's in league 1.

    Bottom line for me is that this squad has underperformed.

    It should  be top six.  The run from Sunderland away proved that.

    That it is not is partly poor management,  partly injuries, partly the players not doing enough, partly that the squad wasn't balanced, partly some players not being good enough.   What % you want to put on each is something to argue about until the cows come home or we sign another player.


    LLL&BH



    I wasn’t aware they were so heavily reliant on data and analytics.  The company I work for sells a technology to help with people analytics and workforce planning.  It can be very powerful, but I often speak with prospects and one of the key things to point out is that the data needs to inform your decision, it won’t make the decision for you, like some sort of silver bullet.  

    I don’t know if from what you say they thought that they could be largely reliant on it as if it were making the decision for them.  If so, then they will be exposed because there is always a human element that must be factored in.  I recall numerous interviews with Curbs talking about making sure the players he bought in, got what we were about as a club.  Of course, that doesn’t mean that he always got it right, and football has changed a lot since he was in charge, but it is important to try and uncover the soft factors.

    Some good points in here HI and I know in myself I write a lot of my posts in anger and frustration at the moment, so don’t always take into account a lot of what you said.  

    However, I cannot agree this squad/team should be top 6.  True, the run post Sunderland showed they can compete, but the run since Plymouth away and the performances at Burton and Shrewsbury show they look very much a mid to lower table squad as well.  It’s completely fair for you to see it as underperforming, I completely respect that.  I see it as just not enough quality and not enough fight and think we are very much a 13th place outfit.  If we’re compromising, you could say top 6, I could say mid to lower table and we’re perhaps in the middle of that.

    Some very good points in this post though 👍🏻
    Two great posts, and I’m agreement with many of the points raised in both of them, coming down slightly on the side of Cabbles in his conclusion that we’re not, overall, a top six squad.
    Cabbles mentions Curbs ‘making sure the players he bought in, got what we were about as a club’, and I’d like to add Jimmy Seed’s mantra that he looked at the players’ character almost ahead of any other qualities. 
    I feel what we lack is players with desire, fight and a hatred of losing, and I think the purple patch that followed JJ’s temporary appointment as manager proves that. Suddenly they are given a reason to go the extra mile, something to really fight for, and they rose to the occasion, but when that extra motivation was taken away (once Jackson was made semi permanent) the players reverted to type, the extra fight ebbed away, and they became a bit too nice again. 
    And this is most noticeable when Inniss and Stockley aren’t playing, two players who perhaps ‘frighten’ the opposition to some extent, and you might even add Pearce to those names, as he’s also up for a fight, especially in the bigger matches, ironically, despite his limited technical qualities. Dobson also adds bite to the side with his work rate and tackling, although he’s more ‘serene’ than scary. 
    I’d be interested to know our average points scored when Inniss and Stockley are missing, compared to when they’re playing. 
    But both are correct that if you let software play at a major role in selecting which players to bring in, based on stats and technical qualities, there’s a real danger that you’re overlooking character, an essential ingredient. 
  • That's good news, always positive when some of the younger ones get a loan move and start to get used to men's footy.  He has many of the natural attributes and has a chance but didn't think he was quite at Elerwre levels in the, albeit limited, number of games I saw him play.  Good luck Nazir.
  • Weren't we after him in the summer? Bolton are offering £150 k... we sould be all over this as well as he would walk into our midfield
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  • JamesSeed said:
    cabbles said:
    My gut feeling was that over the summer analytics took precedence over traditional scouting and squad building.

    There is a place for both but a computer algorithm isn't the same as knowing if a player will be happy in London or if he'll play well in a different formation with different players and, as it turned out, under a different manager.

    It doesn't help, IMHO, if one of the analysts is in Australia and the neither of the then manager or Head of Recruitment have the final say.

    Add the budget not being as big as those of Ipswich and Wigan and not realising that many of the league 1 and 2 players we were targeting would go to the championship because if we thought they were good so would others with deeper pockets and you can get a feel for what was, IMHO, going on over the summer.

    But we still made some strong signings IMHO

    Stockley, Famewo, Macca, Lavelle, Dobson, Clare, even Lee and Leko at times, were/are decent signings at this level.

    Arter, Souare, Kirk, for different reasons, weren't.

    So the squad had some quality as it showed when JJ took over but it also relies on Stockley far too much and their confidence is fragile.  Innis and Lavelle have been big misses too.

    Players like DJ can be brilliant or invisible but thats why he's in league 1.

    Bottom line for me is that this squad has underperformed.

    It should  be top six.  The run from Sunderland away proved that.

    That it is not is partly poor management,  partly injuries, partly the players not doing enough, partly that the squad wasn't balanced, partly some players not being good enough.   What % you want to put on each is something to argue about until the cows come home or we sign another player.


    LLL&BH



    I wasn’t aware they were so heavily reliant on data and analytics.  The company I work for sells a technology to help with people analytics and workforce planning.  It can be very powerful, but I often speak with prospects and one of the key things to point out is that the data needs to inform your decision, it won’t make the decision for you, like some sort of silver bullet.  

    I don’t know if from what you say they thought that they could be largely reliant on it as if it were making the decision for them.  If so, then they will be exposed because there is always a human element that must be factored in.  I recall numerous interviews with Curbs talking about making sure the players he bought in, got what we were about as a club.  Of course, that doesn’t mean that he always got it right, and football has changed a lot since he was in charge, but it is important to try and uncover the soft factors.

    Some good points in here HI and I know in myself I write a lot of my posts in anger and frustration at the moment, so don’t always take into account a lot of what you said.  

    However, I cannot agree this squad/team should be top 6.  True, the run post Sunderland showed they can compete, but the run since Plymouth away and the performances at Burton and Shrewsbury show they look very much a mid to lower table squad as well.  It’s completely fair for you to see it as underperforming, I completely respect that.  I see it as just not enough quality and not enough fight and think we are very much a 13th place outfit.  If we’re compromising, you could say top 6, I could say mid to lower table and we’re perhaps in the middle of that.

    Some very good points in this post though 👍🏻
    Two great posts, and I’m agreement with many of the points raised in both of them, coming down slightly on the side of Cabbles in his conclusion that we’re not, overall, a top six squad.
    Cabbles mentions Curbs ‘making sure the players he bought in, got what we were about as a club’, and I’d like to add Jimmy Seed’s mantra that he looked at the players’ character almost ahead of any other qualities. 
    I feel what we lack is players with desire, fight and a hatred of losing, and I think the purple patch that followed JJ’s temporary appointment as manager proves that. Suddenly they are given a reason to go the extra mile, something to really fight for, and they rose to the occasion, but when that extra motivation was taken away (once Jackson was made semi permanent) the players reverted to type, the extra fight ebbed away, and they became a bit too nice again. 
    And this is most noticeable when Inniss and Stockley aren’t playing, two players who perhaps ‘frighten’ the opposition to some extent, and you might even add Pearce to those names, as he’s also up for a fight, especially in the bigger matches, ironically, despite his limited technical qualities. Dobson also adds bite to the side with his work rate and tackling, although he’s more ‘serene’ than scary. 
    I’d be interested to know our average points scored when Inniss and Stockley are missing, compared to when they’re playing. 
    But both are correct that if you let software play at a major role in selecting which players to bring in, based on stats and technical qualities, there’s a real danger that you’re overlooking character, an essential ingredient. 
    I think what HI did was provide good perspective.  As mentioned, for whatever reason, I don’t have much love for this squad at the moment, so a defeat or a bad performance I have jumped on and been quite critical.  However as HI pointed out there are contributing factors.  

    It’s interesting to know they were pursuing the data & analytics angle.  I guess a lot of clubs now do this, but as you point out with when Jimmy Seed was manager, so much of it is about getting other things right in terms of character.

    Kirk is a good example.  I don’t think from how he’s conducted himself since he’s been here that you could question his character.  What I think has been exposed is that he hasn’t been able to settle and I am sure his Dad’s passing contributed to that.  Perhaps it was just never going to work.  On the flip side, and this one has surprised me a bit, but you may ask what’s going on with Leko?  Again, another young lad, one we all had good memories of when he was last here, struck up a good relationship with Tracy Leaburn.  I thought he would be a great signing.  I know he’s had an injury, but he’s been massively underwhelming this time round.  I’m not calling into question his character, just pointing out that for whatever reason, it looks like this has been a poor signing this time round so far.

    Don’t want to derail the thread too much, but really hope something can be some this summer.  At the moment, any new player we sign I can’t get excited about based on how the most recent ones haven’t really kicked on
  • The proof of the pudding is, to use the saying correctly, in the eating.

    So this isn't a top six squad because we're 14th but I gave what I feel are the reasons for that.

    I still think this set of players have underperformed.
    Agreed.  I very much made the mistake of thinking our issues this season were black and white, I thought once Adkins went this “top 6 squad” as I described it, would go onto recover this season.  It’s a mixture of poor strategic decisions, poor management and underachieving players.  

    TS, you’d assume is dynamic and adaptable  enough as a businessman to learn and adjust from this going forward.  
  • Gribbo said:
    Leuth said:
    Leuth said:
    Perhaps we could really tempt them with a straight swap for Pratley. 
    I'd start supporting Welling
    I would take Pratley over Watson any day!
    I would take a punch in the face over a broken leg too
    Hold my beer 

    😉
    Snorted out my coffee at work
  • If I’m honest I don’t think our squad have particularly underperformed. I think most football fans have an opinion of their players that rate them higher than the actual reality. I think where we are in the league and from our performances, we are pretty much bang on where we deserve to be. I don’t think underperforming comes into it.
  • The midfield duo of Pratley and Watson was a dark time 
  • Weren't we after him in the summer? Bolton are offering £150 k... we sould be all over this as well as he would walk into our midfield
    Best player by far when we played them at their place earlier in the season. He turned the game for them in the 2nd half.

    Not paying £150k for him is a dereliction of duty imo. 
    Have to agree, solid player, cheap, would improve the squad, wages won't be stupid. Can't for the life of me figure out why we wouldn't be interested.
  • edited January 2022
    Weren't we after him in the summer? Bolton are offering £150 k... we sould be all over this as well as he would walk into our midfield
    Best player by far when we played them at their place earlier in the season. He turned the game for them in the 2nd half.

    Not paying £150k for him is a dereliction of duty imo. 
    Don't understand, who didn't pay 150k for him? Or do you mean he's available for 150?
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  • Major said:
    The proof of the pudding is, to use the saying correctly, in the eating.

    So this isn't a top six squad because we're 14th but I gave what I feel are the reasons for that.

    I still think this set of players have underperformed.
    I think you are right, Henry. Underperformed, as in not playing up to their true potential.  As you suggested in your previous post, there can be all sorts of contributing factors.

    Others make claims of players not caring, not trying, stealing a living, etc. etc. but I can't bring myself to go along with all that.

    In fact, I have to assume that those making such accusations have never played the game. 

    You get picked, you get the shirt, the ref blows the whistle and you do the best you can on the day


    I would love to believe that. 

    There are 3 or 4 players in our squad that aren't good enough or clearly don't fit in.  I can, as frustrating as it is, almost accept that.  Both our last 2 promotion squads did as well. 

    I can accept that even our better players have limitations, they are league 1 players for a reason. 

    The ones that really boil my piss are the ones that aren't over the hill, aren't injury prone and have proved in the past they are better than some of the absolute dross we have seen in the last 18 months.  Most of the main culprits played against Hartlepool and Sunderland and Ipswich and at the end of last season.

    That's got to be more than ability that's got to be some sort of effort or commitment issue? 
  • Weren't we after him in the summer? Bolton are offering £150 k... we sould be all over this as well as he would walk into our midfield
    Best player by far when we played them at their place earlier in the season. He turned the game for them in the 2nd half.

    Not paying £150k for him is a dereliction of duty imo. 
    Have to agree, solid player, cheap, would improve the squad, wages won't be stupid. Can't for the life of me figure out why we wouldn't be interested.
    would seem like a no brainer
  • Re jacko's contract.:

    I was under the impression jackson's contract was a guaranteed 18 months & then reviewed every season after that.

    Have I got that wrong?
  • Many are criticising our recent recruitment, but I think we should put it into the context of having to bring in so many players and more significantly, within a budget. 
    In an ideal world you would be buying just one player a year to upgrade your weakest position and maybe a youth player for the future.

    We are nowhere near that but we are at least moving forward towards having a squad of players that are actually ours, but like all areas of our club, it had been ripped apart and cut to the bone. I hope we can be competitive enough next season to get near the playoffs, but there is still a fair bit to be done to achieve that IMO. The brightest light looking ahead is our youth players. As they move into the squad it should give us the depth we will need to sustain the team through injury and suspensions.

    We do need to have a star striker who can score 20 goals next season if we really are going to compete IMO, if not, top six will be a stretching target.
  • Re jacko's contract.:

    I was under the impression jackson's contract was a guaranteed 18 months & then reviewed every season after that.

    Have I got that wrong?
    That's the impression I was under. 
  • Re jacko's contract.:

    I was under the impression jackson's contract was a guaranteed 18 months & then reviewed every season after that.

    Have I got that wrong?
    Jackson's deal will renew automatically at the end of each of the next two seasons based on on-field success.
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