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Scott Fraser - pg 36 - left by mutual consent
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With Games being over potentially 110 minutes we will be using all our squad in not just midfield but the forwards as well.
The 16 man game has never been needed more with the added time.
It will be a skill in getting on the subs in the 3 slots.
Hopefully Fraser injury hasn't been made worse by staying on.
All Charlton fan/critics must know Scott Fraser's game by now. He can be great on the ball or marked out the game and off the pace.
He will still be vital at time during games and he will play parts of matches but I wouldn't expect him to play more than 70 minutes when all the midfield players are fit for selection.
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Taylor is better sitting deep where he can break up play and make passes from deep. Don’t see him as a no. 10 at all.Brownie12 said:
Think that Taylor is probably the one who will push for Frasers place.Billy_Mix said:
Telling that his contribution for the last 10 - 15 minutes when he was apparently 'niggled' was so significantly better than he'd deigned to make for the previous hour. He started well enough in that initial helter skelter quarter hour or so then in all to familiar fashion he checked out and disappeared even having the shameless temerity to moan at colleagues he failed to find with under hit passes. He's his own worst enemy, he ain't going to elevate his career until he accepts it is a 90+ minute effort and applies himself accordingly. We can only surmise there's something lacking literally or figuratively in the heart and/or lung area.billysboots said:
Looked like a calf issue and he signalled that he needed to come off - but at that stage we had used out 3 x substitute slots - so he couldn’t be substituted. TBF he was hobbling for the rest of the match.Leuth said:
He injured himself 10 minutes before the end and then played really well for those 10 minutes for some reason. WOUNDED TIGERValley11 said:Is he injured? Holden said he’s picked up a niggle
The pervading assumption is that Pan Camará's developing fitness will threaten Karoy Anderson's place. Yesterday's game plus last season's reality suggests PC should displace SF unless and until SF pulls his socks up.0 -
Personally, I don’t think we will end up playing the 10 role.Callumcafc said:
Taylor is better sitting deep where he can break up play and make passes from deep. Don’t see him as a no. 10 at all.Brownie12 said:
Think that Taylor is probably the one who will push for Frasers place.Billy_Mix said:
Telling that his contribution for the last 10 - 15 minutes when he was apparently 'niggled' was so significantly better than he'd deigned to make for the previous hour. He started well enough in that initial helter skelter quarter hour or so then in all to familiar fashion he checked out and disappeared even having the shameless temerity to moan at colleagues he failed to find with under hit passes. He's his own worst enemy, he ain't going to elevate his career until he accepts it is a 90+ minute effort and applies himself accordingly. We can only surmise there's something lacking literally or figuratively in the heart and/or lung area.billysboots said:
Looked like a calf issue and he signalled that he needed to come off - but at that stage we had used out 3 x substitute slots - so he couldn’t be substituted. TBF he was hobbling for the rest of the match.Leuth said:
He injured himself 10 minutes before the end and then played really well for those 10 minutes for some reason. WOUNDED TIGERValley11 said:Is he injured? Holden said he’s picked up a niggle
The pervading assumption is that Pan Camará's developing fitness will threaten Karoy Anderson's place. Yesterday's game plus last season's reality suggests PC should displace SF unless and until SF pulls his socks up.2 -
Neither it’s going to be a 3 with one of them as the holding midfielder. I still don’t think Taylor is a Fraser replacement. You need goals from midfield and Fraser is our only source of that at the moment. Payne or maybe Anderson would come in for Fraser’s role. I wouldn’t mind if Payne was moved on and we signed someone better as competition for Fraser which could push him to do betterBrownie12 said:
Personally, I don’t think we will end up playing the 10 role.Callumcafc said:
Taylor is better sitting deep where he can break up play and make passes from deep. Don’t see him as a no. 10 at all.Brownie12 said:
Think that Taylor is probably the one who will push for Frasers place.Billy_Mix said:
Telling that his contribution for the last 10 - 15 minutes when he was apparently 'niggled' was so significantly better than he'd deigned to make for the previous hour. He started well enough in that initial helter skelter quarter hour or so then in all to familiar fashion he checked out and disappeared even having the shameless temerity to moan at colleagues he failed to find with under hit passes. He's his own worst enemy, he ain't going to elevate his career until he accepts it is a 90+ minute effort and applies himself accordingly. We can only surmise there's something lacking literally or figuratively in the heart and/or lung area.billysboots said:
Looked like a calf issue and he signalled that he needed to come off - but at that stage we had used out 3 x substitute slots - so he couldn’t be substituted. TBF he was hobbling for the rest of the match.Leuth said:
He injured himself 10 minutes before the end and then played really well for those 10 minutes for some reason. WOUNDED TIGERValley11 said:Is he injured? Holden said he’s picked up a niggle
The pervading assumption is that Pan Camará's developing fitness will threaten Karoy Anderson's place. Yesterday's game plus last season's reality suggests PC should displace SF unless and until SF pulls his socks up.0 -
Wonder if a more creative midfielder could be one of the loan slots and Payne moved on. I like Fraser but he seems to go through purple patches of looking exceptional and then drops off.0
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Only goal option from midfield ?? Who scored yesterday ? 😂NabySarr said:
Neither it’s going to be a 3 with one of them as the holding midfielder. I still don’t think Taylor is a Fraser replacement. You need goals from midfield and Fraser is our only source of that at the moment. Payne or maybe Anderson would come in for Fraser’s role. I wouldn’t mind if Payne was moved on and we signed someone better as competition for Fraser which could push him to do betterBrownie12 said:
Personally, I don’t think we will end up playing the 10 role.Callumcafc said:
Taylor is better sitting deep where he can break up play and make passes from deep. Don’t see him as a no. 10 at all.Brownie12 said:
Think that Taylor is probably the one who will push for Frasers place.Billy_Mix said:
Telling that his contribution for the last 10 - 15 minutes when he was apparently 'niggled' was so significantly better than he'd deigned to make for the previous hour. He started well enough in that initial helter skelter quarter hour or so then in all to familiar fashion he checked out and disappeared even having the shameless temerity to moan at colleagues he failed to find with under hit passes. He's his own worst enemy, he ain't going to elevate his career until he accepts it is a 90+ minute effort and applies himself accordingly. We can only surmise there's something lacking literally or figuratively in the heart and/or lung area.billysboots said:
Looked like a calf issue and he signalled that he needed to come off - but at that stage we had used out 3 x substitute slots - so he couldn’t be substituted. TBF he was hobbling for the rest of the match.Leuth said:
He injured himself 10 minutes before the end and then played really well for those 10 minutes for some reason. WOUNDED TIGERValley11 said:Is he injured? Holden said he’s picked up a niggle
The pervading assumption is that Pan Camará's developing fitness will threaten Karoy Anderson's place. Yesterday's game plus last season's reality suggests PC should displace SF unless and until SF pulls his socks up.1 -
To be fair Pratley did to him yesterday exactly what he did when he marked him out of the game when playing for us. Prayley might be getting on but he knows his job10
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Averages one goal a season. Yesterday was his scoresheet contribution done until at least 2024!AndyG said:
Only goal option from midfield ?? Who scored yesterday ? 😂NabySarr said:
Neither it’s going to be a 3 with one of them as the holding midfielder. I still don’t think Taylor is a Fraser replacement. You need goals from midfield and Fraser is our only source of that at the moment. Payne or maybe Anderson would come in for Fraser’s role. I wouldn’t mind if Payne was moved on and we signed someone better as competition for Fraser which could push him to do betterBrownie12 said:
Personally, I don’t think we will end up playing the 10 role.Callumcafc said:
Taylor is better sitting deep where he can break up play and make passes from deep. Don’t see him as a no. 10 at all.Brownie12 said:
Think that Taylor is probably the one who will push for Frasers place.Billy_Mix said:
Telling that his contribution for the last 10 - 15 minutes when he was apparently 'niggled' was so significantly better than he'd deigned to make for the previous hour. He started well enough in that initial helter skelter quarter hour or so then in all to familiar fashion he checked out and disappeared even having the shameless temerity to moan at colleagues he failed to find with under hit passes. He's his own worst enemy, he ain't going to elevate his career until he accepts it is a 90+ minute effort and applies himself accordingly. We can only surmise there's something lacking literally or figuratively in the heart and/or lung area.billysboots said:
Looked like a calf issue and he signalled that he needed to come off - but at that stage we had used out 3 x substitute slots - so he couldn’t be substituted. TBF he was hobbling for the rest of the match.Leuth said:
He injured himself 10 minutes before the end and then played really well for those 10 minutes for some reason. WOUNDED TIGERValley11 said:Is he injured? Holden said he’s picked up a niggle
The pervading assumption is that Pan Camará's developing fitness will threaten Karoy Anderson's place. Yesterday's game plus last season's reality suggests PC should displace SF unless and until SF pulls his socks up.0 -
Naaa he will get another one before Xmas 🤶Callumcafc said:
Averages one goal a season. Yesterday was his scoresheet contribution done until at least 2024!AndyG said:
Only goal option from midfield ?? Who scored yesterday ? 😂NabySarr said:
Neither it’s going to be a 3 with one of them as the holding midfielder. I still don’t think Taylor is a Fraser replacement. You need goals from midfield and Fraser is our only source of that at the moment. Payne or maybe Anderson would come in for Fraser’s role. I wouldn’t mind if Payne was moved on and we signed someone better as competition for Fraser which could push him to do betterBrownie12 said:
Personally, I don’t think we will end up playing the 10 role.Callumcafc said:
Taylor is better sitting deep where he can break up play and make passes from deep. Don’t see him as a no. 10 at all.Brownie12 said:
Think that Taylor is probably the one who will push for Frasers place.Billy_Mix said:
Telling that his contribution for the last 10 - 15 minutes when he was apparently 'niggled' was so significantly better than he'd deigned to make for the previous hour. He started well enough in that initial helter skelter quarter hour or so then in all to familiar fashion he checked out and disappeared even having the shameless temerity to moan at colleagues he failed to find with under hit passes. He's his own worst enemy, he ain't going to elevate his career until he accepts it is a 90+ minute effort and applies himself accordingly. We can only surmise there's something lacking literally or figuratively in the heart and/or lung area.billysboots said:
Looked like a calf issue and he signalled that he needed to come off - but at that stage we had used out 3 x substitute slots - so he couldn’t be substituted. TBF he was hobbling for the rest of the match.Leuth said:
He injured himself 10 minutes before the end and then played really well for those 10 minutes for some reason. WOUNDED TIGERValley11 said:Is he injured? Holden said he’s picked up a niggle
The pervading assumption is that Pan Camará's developing fitness will threaten Karoy Anderson's place. Yesterday's game plus last season's reality suggests PC should displace SF unless and until SF pulls his socks up.0 -
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Man marking Fraser worked yesterday but won't always be such a simple tactic. Yesterday all the long balls were aimed at May whose game doesn't suit that, but with Leaburn back or another target man then we will have other options than everything going through Fraser.
Plus a fit Camara will make it a risk vs reward for any team dedicating one player to snuff Fraser out, as that means Camara will be left unchecked, possibly even Dobson too if he's heading forward more.
On the other hand if you DON'T have someone stopping Fraser and marking him he's exactly the kind of player who will make the passes that May likes and pick out all those runs.
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You've got to ask if it even worked yesterday. Who won?3
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Indeed and this strangely meant that the team losing killed the game off, we had no need to gamble the lead charging forward.NabySarr said:Orient didn’t press our defence at all, and let our back 3 do what they want. They did this because they didn’t want to commit and leave space for Fraser and Anderson to operate in. This is why both struggled to get involved and when they did they didn’t have much time on the ball at all. In other games he will have more space and will be one of our better players1 -
But Orient could easily have nicked a goal in the last 10 minutes, then would have got exactly what they wanted.Ferryman said:
Indeed and this strangely meant that the team losing killed the game off, we had no need to gamble the lead charging forward.NabySarr said:Orient didn’t press our defence at all, and let our back 3 do what they want. They did this because they didn’t want to commit and leave space for Fraser and Anderson to operate in. This is why both struggled to get involved and when they did they didn’t have much time on the ball at all. In other games he will have more space and will be one of our better players0 -
I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I still haven’t completely taken to him.
One of those cases where there’s a feeling that there’s a quality player in there, and he shows it in glimpses, but too often seems a bit anonymous.Something about his body language maybe - quite languid/slow.Absolutely a 1st team player with what we have to work with, but the likes of Camara and Dobbo stand out so much more in the way they play.4 -
Agree with your points on Fraser.thenewbie said:Man marking Fraser worked yesterday but won't always be such a simple tactic. Yesterday all the long balls were aimed at May whose game doesn't suit that, but with Leaburn back or another target man then we will have other options than everything going through Fraser.
Plus a fit Camara will make it a risk vs reward for any team dedicating one player to snuff Fraser out, as that means Camara will be left unchecked, possibly even Dobson too if he's heading forward more.
On the other hand if you DON'T have someone stopping Fraser and marking him he's exactly the kind of player who will make the passes that May likes and pick out all those runs.
However the long balls aimed at May were attempts to get him in as last man through on goal which I would suggest is his game as he looked quite nippy to me. The problem Saturday wasn't the type of ball it was a combination of the execution and the conditions. Where it was wet it just got away from May,whereas on a better day it might have worked a treat a couple of times.
But ideally we have a number of tools in the box to get May in on goal. It perhaps got a bit predictable on Saturday with Fraser so tightly marshalled.0 -
Agree with this. I certainly wouldn’t try to argue there’s nothing there to work with where Fraser is concerned as there is clearly talent. But…. after watching him for a season and half, even allowing for the post COVID fitness issues, I’m just left with this over arching sense he’s not quite good enough. We don’t have better in his role so he deserves his place. But to really push on I think we either need to upgrade him or he needs to deliver more more consistently. He wouldn’t have got in Powell or Bowyers promotion winning teams. I do understand what some people see in him but he still leaves me a bit cold.cafctom said:I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I still haven’t completely taken to him.
One of those cases where there’s a feeling that there’s a quality player in there, and he shows it in glimpses, but too often seems a bit anonymous.Something about his body language maybe - quite languid/slow.Absolutely a 1st team player with what we have to work with, but the likes of Camara and Dobbo stand out so much more in the way they play.
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Have to side with Leuth in terms of defending Fraser to the hilt.
The mere fact that teams feel they have to man mark Fraser out of the game tells you all you need to know about what professionals feel towards him.
Up until now, he’s been our only creative outlet in midfield and snuffing him out has had a real impact. But as proved when Camara came on, once he was given time and space he produced so much more. (I actually think people are being overly harsh on his performance on Saturday but admit it wasn’t his best)
Fraser has been excellent at linking up with May in pre-season and when May has a partner alongside him, taking up the defenders time, the two of them will be able to link up much better.
People questioning his fitness or telling him to pull his socks up is strange to me as he got crocked with ten minutes to go and didn’t stop running.5 -
Thats a fair point. It looked like Orient had done their homework and it was a deliberate tactic - they set up in a way to make long balls hard to pull off (even moreso due to the conditions as you say) and then shackled Fraser to stifle our only other option (at present.)Kips said:
Agree with your points on Fraser.thenewbie said:Man marking Fraser worked yesterday but won't always be such a simple tactic. Yesterday all the long balls were aimed at May whose game doesn't suit that, but with Leaburn back or another target man then we will have other options than everything going through Fraser.
Plus a fit Camara will make it a risk vs reward for any team dedicating one player to snuff Fraser out, as that means Camara will be left unchecked, possibly even Dobson too if he's heading forward more.
On the other hand if you DON'T have someone stopping Fraser and marking him he's exactly the kind of player who will make the passes that May likes and pick out all those runs.
However the long balls aimed at May were attempts to get him in as last man through on goal which I would suggest is his game as he looked quite nippy to me. The problem Saturday wasn't the type of ball it was a combination of the execution and the conditions. Where it was wet it just got away from May,whereas on a better day it might have worked a treat a couple of times.
But ideally we have a number of tools in the box to get May in on goal. It perhaps got a bit predictable on Saturday with Fraser so tightly marshalled.
The goal came through one thing they couldn't account for which was CBT having his counterpart for breakfast, lunch and dinner (and providing effective service afterwards which isn't always his forte) so hopefully we learn from that and how to make it part of the plan rather than seemingly stumbling into it when our actual plan was countered.1 -
Wasn’t it Fraser’s shot which was parried by the keeper for the chance Camara missed? Fraser was already crocked by then and I thought showed he was prepared to give his all for the team despite probably doing himself more harm. I hope this “niggle” doesn’t keep him out for too long as think we will miss him a lot!7
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I think he'll end up being much better this year with a higher standard of player around him. He's done ok up to this point but certainly more to come from him.7
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Fraser looks like he has lost a few KG's and got around the pitch better, hopefully the niggle isn't so bad! He will be a big player for us this year.1
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Agree with this. Clearly talented and we need that playmaker role but he frustrates and pleases in equal measure. Hoping that Camara/Taylor manage to do a lot of his legwork to let him express himself. Think Danny Hollands allowing Stephen’s to play. Don’t think Fraser is anything like as good as Dale but the principle still applies.cafctom said:I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I still haven’t completely taken to him.
One of those cases where there’s a feeling that there’s a quality player in there, and he shows it in glimpses, but too often seems a bit anonymous.Something about his body language maybe - quite languid/slow.Absolutely a 1st team player with what we have to work with, but the likes of Camara and Dobbo stand out so much more in the way they play.1 -
A lot of the problem Fraser has had for us is that he's often been the only good ball-player on the pitch. Dobson is better than he gets credit for but has been purely on fire fighting duty for us, and Albie was never able to take control of a game. That meant that if the opposition focused on Fraser all our creative threat disappeared unless we got it wide to JRS. Anderson is very young so I don't expect him to take control of games yet but I'm hopeful with Camara in the team and Dobson having less need to cover everything in the new shape Fraser can start to use the extra attention he gets against teams. Drag his marker into an uncomfortable position and create space for Camara to run into, or push up and wide and allow Dobson to step forward into the gap and play the ball around. As teams start to realise that we have other creative threats, marking Fraser specifically will become less of a viable strategy and he'll probably get freed up and be able to express himself more. Sometimes I think he flatters to deceive because he's expected to be the only creative outlet and it's very easy for teams to snuff that out in isolation
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I strongly disagree with the point that he was moving round the pitch better.
Nobody is denying his talent, but it took him taking a kick to change his approach to the game (which coincided with Pratley going off too). After getting left a heap on the floor he took about 5 mins to be able to move properly again and then upped his game for the last 5 minutes.
We need him to be more consistently at that higher level.2 -
Me my dad and cousin all said the same watching on saturday that he looks slow and unfit and was blowing after 20/25 mins
Not sure about getting around the pitch better like some are saying2 -
I seem to remember a certain Mr Jensen, getting plenty of stick, 'because he didn't put in a shift' he turned out all right, we've got a league one Claus on our hands, be patient, 8 goals last season, could hit double figures this season.4
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I do think he'll do well this season. I just don't think he played very well on Saturday and he continues to look unfit.
Maybe that is just him. He's been here long enough to start showing us otherwise. He can twist and turn on the ball, but maybe he just has no comparative pace or stamina.1 -
Quick! A player didn't put in a Balon D'or winning performance in League 1. Sell him!4
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Football is a funny old sport and divided by opinions. I think the opposite, he sets up a lot of our forward moves, covers the grass well, and looks to make something happen.Dazzler21 said:I do think he'll do well this season. I just don't think he played very well on Saturday and he continues to look unfit.
Maybe that is just him. He's been here long enough to start showing us otherwise. He can twist and turn on the ball, but maybe he just has no comparative pace or stamina.6
