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Jack Payne - July 2024 signed for Colchester (p14)
Comments
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And it’s pointless playing them because they’ll only make half a dozen appearances before we sell them on the cheap.Scoham said:
Good point. Anyone below Gomez, Shelvey and Lookman level isn’t up to it.Henry Irving said:
You forgotScoham said:
If you’re feeling negative you’ll see it that way whoever we sign.Lewis Coaches said:paulfox said:
Come on, it is three of them isn’t it? what will you be saying if they all step up?, we don’t know yet do we?. Admittedly it could go tits up, but we need to give this new team a chance. I’m probably slightly more concerned about some we have retained.Lewis Coaches said:
Just remind me Swindon finished in 6th position in Division 2 last season and now it’s expected that these same players push us on to The Championship.Sillybilly said:I don’t know what to think. We wanted a clear out. We’re getting one. We wanted some goals from midfield. On the face of it Jack helps here. But the niggling feeling that we’re recruiting a bunch of league 2 players haunts me. Welcome aboard the good ship Swindo, sorry CAFC Jack. I hope you are a ray of light.
Plus manager and his right hand man thats five at least.
Pulling players out of Division 2 is not going to get us to the championship any day soon.
A player stepping up a division isn’t good enough.
A player dropping down is on the decline.
A player from a smaller club in this league can’t be that good as Championship clubs weren’t interested.
A player from a big club in this league is an Ipswich/Wednesday etc reject.
A Prem loan is a kid lacking experience.
A big name wants one last pay day.
What players coming in would impress you?
Academy players is doing it on the cheap with kids
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Whilst I would not want a entire first team squad recruited from a team in the division below us, there are clearly bargains to be had. Jamie Vardy was playing non league at the age of 24 and went on to play for England and lift the Premiership trophy. Mark Kinsella had only played non league and the equivalent of league two level before coming to Charlton in his mid twenties but he hit the ground running and went on to be our Captain in the Premier League. Paul Mortimer had been on Fulham’s books as a youngster but was turning out for a non league club before signing for us. The jump in class all those players made was higher than that currently being asked of our recent signings.Garner also knows the players he has signed from Swindon and presumably has confidence in their application as well as their skill. Like virtually every other manager in this division he has very limited resources with which to build a team that can really challenge for promotion. Given that circumstance, signing a few players who have done it for you in the past doesn’t seem to be a terrible policy.14
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Agreed. Us signing Pope and Aribo was more like the signings of Davison and Clayden or indeed Mason Burstow and Jacob Roddy, punts on the future which sometimes come off and sometimes don't. None were signed to make an immediate impact.Nug said:
Not the same though is it? Pope and Aribo were about 19 when they were signed for their potential. I have no idea if this guy or any of the Swindon lads are any good but he’s a 27 year old player from League 2. It’ll be interesting to see how it goes but I do think it’s strange with all the Swindon connections and I believe it’s a concern. However the squad needed an overhaul and this is the level we’re looking at, hopefully it’s enough to push for promotion but I’m not sure it will be.Vincenzo said:
You must have been furious when we signed Nick Pope and Joe Aribo from non-league clubs. I mean, how good could they be if they're playing for Bury Town and Staines, ffs?IAgree said:So a divisive manager, with very patchy experience and success, hired by a narcissist who knows sod all about football, has essentially plundered his old club for a bunch of players who were so great that they were in league two in what should be the high point of their career and we have signed a half dozen academy players? Fabulous!1 -
Good summary Dazzler, only one I’ll disagree with is Derby. How they’ve managed to sign Conor Hourihane in league one, I have no idea. He is an outstanding footballer and in my opinion is the best player in this league.Dazzler21 said:Club and their best signing so far (based on my very limited knowledge of clubs outside of Charlton):
Accrington:
Shaun Whalley 5 years ago would have been good at this level.
Barnsley:
Conor McCarthy a decent quality punt.
Bolton:
Jack Iredale - Not bad, should be hitting his prime
Bristol:
Rossiter or Marquis - Neither are promotion material.
Burton:
Adeboyejo is probably their best signing, released from a club dropped to this level though.
Cambridge:
Haunstrup from Killy is probably their best, not phenomenal in any sense.
Charlton:
Jack Payne is probably the most exciting of our business.
Cheltenham:
No one of note that I think will shine at this level.
Wayne Rooney's Derby County:
Probably Mendez Laing or Barkhuizen are their best signings
Exeter:
Literally signed no one.
Fleetwood:
Vela was a very good signing for Fleetwood imo.
Forest Green:
Kyle McAllister is a good signing, can he do it down here though?
Ipswich:
Ladapo a very, very good signing at this level.
Lincoln:
No one of note that I think will shine at this level.
MK Dons:
Either Barry or Tucker really, probably the former.
Morecambe:
No one of note that I think will shine at this level.
Oxford:
Brown will be their best signing so far - He's their only signing mind you.
Peterborough:
Ben Thompson is a great option.
Plymouth:
No one of note that I think will shine at this level.
Portsmouth:
Pack or Piggott
Port Vale:
Funso Ojo is actually relatively decent.
Wednesday:
Several shrewd signings. Vaulks, Smith, Ihiekwe and James should all be good enough for a L1 play off position.
Shrewsbury:
Dunkley or O'Brien probably the pick.
Wycombe:
No one of note that I think will shine at this level.2 -
Think about the squad we finished with at Ipswich and it was obvious that a massive overhaul was essential. Getting in a new manager and coaching staff and recruiting players enough for a promotion push is actually a pretty big ask. None of us have a clue how this will go but Garner seems to be a man with a plan and it’s looking like previous mistakes have been lessons learned. I think we’ll make a good fist of this season but I won’t be shocked if it takes a couple more windows to come to fruition.15
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Could do very well, he's 31 now so clinging onto the last of his peak years. Must've been guaranteed game time.RC_CAFC said:
Good summary Dazzler, only one I’ll disagree with is Derby. How they’ve managed to sign Conor Hourihane in league one, I have no idea. He is an outstanding footballer and in my opinion is the best player in this league.Dazzler21 said:Club and their best signing so far (based on my very limited knowledge of clubs outside of Charlton):
Accrington:
Shaun Whalley 5 years ago would have been good at this level.
Barnsley:
Conor McCarthy a decent quality punt.
Bolton:
Jack Iredale - Not bad, should be hitting his prime
Bristol:
Rossiter or Marquis - Neither are promotion material.
Burton:
Adeboyejo is probably their best signing, released from a club dropped to this level though.
Cambridge:
Haunstrup from Killy is probably their best, not phenomenal in any sense.
Charlton:
Jack Payne is probably the most exciting of our business.
Cheltenham:
No one of note that I think will shine at this level.
Wayne Rooney's Derby County:
Probably Mendez Laing or Barkhuizen are their best signings
Exeter:
Literally signed no one.
Fleetwood:
Vela was a very good signing for Fleetwood imo.
Forest Green:
Kyle McAllister is a good signing, can he do it down here though?
Ipswich:
Ladapo a very, very good signing at this level.
Lincoln:
No one of note that I think will shine at this level.
MK Dons:
Either Barry or Tucker really, probably the former.
Morecambe:
No one of note that I think will shine at this level.
Oxford:
Brown will be their best signing so far - He's their only signing mind you.
Peterborough:
Ben Thompson is a great option.
Plymouth:
No one of note that I think will shine at this level.
Portsmouth:
Pack or Piggott
Port Vale:
Funso Ojo is actually relatively decent.
Wednesday:
Several shrewd signings. Vaulks, Smith, Ihiekwe and James should all be good enough for a L1 play off position.
Shrewsbury:
Dunkley or O'Brien probably the pick.
Wycombe:
No one of note that I think will shine at this level.1 -
You mean you only have a bowl of custard .... ?paulfox said:
In my opinion yes, but I don’t have a crystal ball, so you could be bang on🤷🏻♂️, if you are I’ll pm you for the lotto numbers😂IAgree said:
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Lol!, yes bowl is intact not sure the custard is in date, as it’s been so long to have reason for a dip!!, I’m now keeping my custard powder dry for upcoming season!!.🤣Oggy Red said:
You mean you only have a bowl of custard .... ?paulfox said:
In my opinion yes, but I don’t have a crystal ball, so you could be bang on🤷🏻♂️, if you are I’ll pm you for the lotto numbers😂IAgree said:3 -
Worth noting when comparing our transfer business with other promotion seeking clubs, is that we were a LONG way from promotion last season, and thus need far more strengthening. Over 20 points behind the Top 72
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Garner is buying players he has worked with and knows. This approach seems sensible, hopefully it will work.4
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Also worth remembering that this gap isn’t just clawed back by players. But a combination of players, manager, system, training and others.killerandflash said:Worth noting when comparing our transfer business with other promotion seeking clubs, is that we were a LONG way from promotion last season, and thus need far more strengthening. Over 20 points behind the Top 7
As a very basic analogy, Jackson’s Charlton would have finished much closer to the play offs than Adkins’s would.
I think we’re going in the right direction. Not quite got there yet with the full squad but definitely right direction.5 -
Did i miss something or Are we going to be getting in an assistant manager after not getting the now swindon manager in
didnt the other guy come in as just a coach ?0 -
killerandflash said:Worth noting when comparing our transfer business with other promotion seeking clubs, is that we were a LONG way from promotion last season, and thus need far more strengthening. Over 20 points behind the Top 7
Yes the points total was 20 points behind yes but the squad wasnt anywhere near that bad. The manager has to take last season on the chin imo due to his persistence in playing a system that anybody could see wasnt working. I like most like JJ as a person but a manager he isnt (hopefully yet)1 -
Over the last two windows, so far it hasn't obviously closed yet, we have brought the squad back to the level it was when Bowyer left. That wasn't good enough.killerandflash said:Worth noting when comparing our transfer business with other promotion seeking clubs, is that we were a LONG way from promotion last season, and thus need far more strengthening. Over 20 points behind the Top 7
We are certainly better off than we were this time last year.0 -
Please in English not Sure understand I mightCharltontillidieCOYR said:Did i miss something or Are we going to be getting in an assistant manager after not getting the now swindon manager in
didnt the other guy come in as just a coach ?
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SouthWest_Addicks said:Slightly concerned about the lack of height and power in midfield. All seems to be nice footballers, do think we are missing a Pratley type of player.
Think Mcgrandles was signed to beef up the midfield as well, Dobson is lean but knows how to use his strength and JFC can put himself about.
If anything we have gone for more energetic players to win the midfield battle rather then have likes of Watson hacking players down.
Pratley though was very effective at what he did with great stamina for his age still.
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We already have a squad good enough to rip League 2 apart and maybe reach the playoffs plus a manager proven at that level.
Can't understand all this negativity.
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But you've only signed a 2 year contract. D'oh! 11 -
I want to believe in this new team and I believe in the strategy of signing the perceived best players from the division(s) below, but I also think that Washington and Purrington are losses who meet the criteria. I can only assume / hope that these (bad, imo) decisions are based on team harmony rather than footballing ability.
Only time will tell. I'm not finding this exciting but it is interesting. At least I don't think we'll be bottom six as I did a few months back.2 -
The club initially said Purrington was being offered a new deal, that changed when Garner came in. Given we’ve signed two pacey attacking full backs asking with using Clayden there I expect it’s more about Garner wanting a different type of player.jimmymelrose said:I want to believe in this new team and I believe in the strategy of signing the perceived best players from the division(s) below, but I also think that Washington and Purrington are losses who meet the criteria. I can only assume / hope that these (bad, imo) decisions are based on team harmony rather than footballing ability.
Only time will tell. I'm not finding this exciting but it is interesting. At least I don't think we'll be bottom six as I did a few months back.
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Absolutely this. Another big question is whether Garner is any good as a manager. I have no idea and I don’t think last season is enough evidence to be confident he is. I’m open minded.Nug said:
Not the same though is it? Pope and Aribo were about 19 when they were signed for their potential. I have no idea if this guy or any of the Swindon lads are any good but he’s a 27 year old player from League 2. It’ll be interesting to see how it goes but I do think it’s strange with all the Swindon connections and I believe it’s a concern. However the squad needed an overhaul and this is the level we’re looking at, hopefully it’s enough to push for promotion but I’m not sure it will be.Vincenzo said:
You must have been furious when we signed Nick Pope and Joe Aribo from non-league clubs. I mean, how good could they be if they're playing for Bury Town and Staines, ffs?IAgree said:So a divisive manager, with very patchy experience and success, hired by a narcissist who knows sod all about football, has essentially plundered his old club for a bunch of players who were so great that they were in league two in what should be the high point of their career and we have signed a half dozen academy players? Fabulous!
What is clear is that a lot of recruitment / staffing decisions at the club are being financially driven, often around relatively small sums. Of course that is always true to some extent but you can’t argue we’re getting the best of L2 if that is compromised by what we’re willing to pay - the four may not be “L2 players” but that’s no different from saying we’re not a L1 club.
The five permanent signings will respectively be 28, 27, 26, 25 and 27 in the next few months - they are all mid-career rather than promising youngsters who are typical players moving up (and moving from Lincoln to Charlton is surely moving up). A great deal hangs on the manager’s ability to build a team.
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For me building a team comes second to winning.
Maybe it is a chicken and egg situation, but I would prefer mind numbingly boring football and a win, that all the bells and whistles and a defeat.
Results on the pitch is the primary measure of Mr Garner.2 -
The point of building a team is to win. It’s not a social group.seth plum said:For me building a team comes second to winning.
Maybe it is a chicken and egg situation, but I would prefer mind numbingly boring football and a win, that all the bells and whistles and a defeat.
Results on the pitch is the primary measure of Mr Garner.3 -
Or its to do both, given the unity we see created amongst teams that win promotion.Airman Brown said:
The point of building a team is to win. It’s not a social group.seth plum said:For me building a team comes second to winning.
Maybe it is a chicken and egg situation, but I would prefer mind numbingly boring football and a win, that all the bells and whistles and a defeat.
Results on the pitch is the primary measure of Mr Garner.2 -
Sounds like moaning for the sake of it to me!9
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Well yes.Airman Brown said:
The point of building a team is to win. It’s not a social group.seth plum said:For me building a team comes second to winning.
Maybe it is a chicken and egg situation, but I would prefer mind numbingly boring football and a win, that all the bells and whistles and a defeat.
Results on the pitch is the primary measure of Mr Garner.
I suppose I am worried about the talk of developing a style, a club methodology, continuing to be a work in progress, when glorious defeats might become acceptable.
If we combine glory with wins then fine, but wins are everything right now.1 -
I think you can do both but we’re going to have to be patient in the first couple of months5
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Not sure I totally agree. Yes we do need to see results in the short and medium term but for several seasons now we've seen teams being gutted and rebuilt almost from scratch every summer.seth plum said:
Well yes.Airman Brown said:
The point of building a team is to win. It’s not a social group.seth plum said:For me building a team comes second to winning.
Maybe it is a chicken and egg situation, but I would prefer mind numbingly boring football and a win, that all the bells and whistles and a defeat.
Results on the pitch is the primary measure of Mr Garner.
I suppose I am worried about the talk of developing a style, a club methodology, continuing to be a work in progress, when glorious defeats might become acceptable.
If we combine glory with wins then fine, but wins are everything right now.
Having a style and methodology (and sticking to it) will hopefully lead to a point where transfers are about upgrading and evolving the team and not having to create one anew every year.
It's going to take time, patience and money to achieve and I am by no means saying it's guaranteed to succeed but I can understand what the idea is even if I'm still not 100% sold on the methods.3 -
I think everything you write is totally reasonable, but for me I am too old for patience.thenewbie said:
Not sure I totally agree. Yes we do need to see results in the short and medium term but for several seasons now we've seen teams being gutted and rebuilt almost from scratch every summer.seth plum said:
Well yes.Airman Brown said:
The point of building a team is to win. It’s not a social group.seth plum said:For me building a team comes second to winning.
Maybe it is a chicken and egg situation, but I would prefer mind numbingly boring football and a win, that all the bells and whistles and a defeat.
Results on the pitch is the primary measure of Mr Garner.
I suppose I am worried about the talk of developing a style, a club methodology, continuing to be a work in progress, when glorious defeats might become acceptable.
If we combine glory with wins then fine, but wins are everything right now.
Having a style and methodology (and sticking to it) will hopefully lead to a point where transfers are about upgrading and evolving the team and not having to create one anew every year.
It's going to take time, patience and money to achieve and I am by no means saying it's guaranteed to succeed but I can understand what the idea is even if I'm still not 100% sold on the methods.
I want results.3 -
Logic suggests that changing manager, players, and playing style is unlikely to produce results in the early stages, especially with a difficult fixtures in the first few weeks. The big question is how long as a Club we can hold our nerve.
Personally I think top six is a stretching target, but I am delighted we have set a pathway for the whole Club to follow in the years to come and that the basic foundations are being laid in terms of recent player recruitment to start that journey. The whole Club just feels like it has been given a new refreshing start.For me it is the right path and I am excited and looking forward to next season. My fear is that those who expect and demand promotion could derail what has been started. Hopefully we get off to a reasonable start.9
