Charlton TV and it's part in the poor attendances

TEL

Being based overseas Charlton Tv was a blessing. 

However, from a sales and marketing prospective it's been a contributor to the alarming drop in attendances at the Valley.

I can understand a fan with maybe a couple of kids in tow would opt not to spend upwards of £70-100 on travel food and admission and instead watch from home for a tenner.

However, I think this is just more evidence of our illustrious ego getting it completely wrong yet again. It's pretty obvious that many of you guys no longer attend but still buy the stream, so as much as the ego bangs on about revenue and match day income, he is to blame as far as Charlton Tv is concerned. 

If I still lived in England, come whatever, I'd still attend in person rather than watch for a tv. 

It's just become too easy to not bother hasn't it? 

Stig

I'm sure it's playing a part. There are push factors and pull factors. I expect that Charlton TV is a factor in pulling people away. Biggest though are the twin push factors: poor football and no atmosphere. Of course these will all feed into each other in one big spiral of decline. I think that as well as being a problem in itself, Charlton TV is probably the biggest marker of Sandgaard's failed strategy, because he seemed to believe he could put third tier football on an internet channel and having an erudite presenter and a knowledgeable pundit or two would get get people watching around the world. Of course they won't, Thomas, the internet is wall to wall with high quality football. The only reason people will tune in to watch the dross that Charlton serve up is because they are already hooked. 

Still, it's not all bad news. We're on course to be in the Premier League in five years (Isthmian Premier, that is) and we'll be able to boast the best tv channel in non-leage football.  

TEL

Stig said:

I'm sure it's playing a part. There are push factors and pull factors. I expect that Charlton TV is a factor in pulling people away. Biggest though are the twin push factors: poor football and no atmosphere. Of course these will all feed into each other in one big spiral of decline. I think that as well as being a problem in itself, Charlton TV is probably the biggest marker of Sandgaard's failed strategy, because he seemed to believe he could put third tier football on an internet channel and having an erudite presenter and a knowledgeable pundit or two would get get people watching around the world. Of course they won't, Thomas, the internet is wall to wall with high quality football. The only reason people will tune in to watch the dross that Charlton serve up is because they are already hooked. 

Still, it's not all bad news. We're on course to be in the Premier League in five years (Isthmian Premier, that is) and we'll be able to boast the best tv channel in non-leage football.  

Yep I totally agree with your additional points. 

Not sure what the answer is though. 

grumpyaddick

Good post.

I enjoy it when overseas but have often wondered if the high quality TV initiative was actually shooting the club in the foot in terms of revenue generation. 

Chris_from_Sidcup

Obviously it will have an impact on freezing cold or soaking wet Tuesday nights but overall i think people aren't going not because they can watch it on tv, but simply because we're shit. Not to mention that right now we're a tough watch even on tv, never mind actually turning up in person.

If we'd got promoted and were doing ok in the Championship then i've no doubt we wouldn't be having this discussion.

guinnessaddick

Saturday was the perfect storm.
Last Saturday before Christmas.
Train strike.
Not knowing whether the game was on until just over a couple of hours before kickoff.
Thats without mentioning the owner or the football on offer.

Callumcafc

The genie won’t go back in the bottle. With enough will, there are people that’ll find a way to be able to watch all the games from the comfort of their sofa one way or another.

If Charlton weren’t doing it, those staying at home would be paying £10 a stream to our opposition. Or setting up IPTV.



I think @Chris_from_Sidcup above has it right. People aren’t not coming because there’s a stream available. People aren’t coming because the team is one of the worst in living memory.

Mendonca In Asdas

Lots and probably many more reasons to stay at home and watch it on a stream

1) Poor football on offer, it’s woeful, league one football is dire, you can only take it for so long, and people would rather use their time to do other, more productive things, how many times for those at the games have you sat there, and thought why on earth am I doing this?

2) Train strikes - You never know from one week to another whether they are on or off.

3) We didn’t even know this week until late on that the match was going ahead.

4) Cost of living crisis, and cost of getting to a match.

5) Supporter Churn, ie people move away, pass away.

6) People are fed up of how the club is being run, it’s just doesn’t come across as a family club anymore.

7) If people have got to the point that they can’t even be bothered to watch the game on a stream, then we really have got a problem.

8) I haven’t got a problem with Charlton Tv, I think it’s a great service for people who can’t get to matches, or can’t afford to come to matches.

9) How our current owner can be proud of what he’s created in the last 2 years (football wise) is beyond me.

valleynick66

Match day tickets are significantly overpriced. Even if they compare to other clubs they are still an expensive purchase. Even more so in the middle of a very real cost of living crisis. That is true wider than our club. 

The stream is welcome and priced correctly. It’s one of the few things we don’t need to take issue with. 

oohaahmortimer

Honestly it’s the best way to have a kip, only problem is the noise the commentators make when the oppo score often wakes me up 

CL_Phantom

As another overseas supporter going to chip in. I've spent far too much watching us online last couple of seasons, probably a lot more than if I was still living at home and attending. 

It seems to have become the big bad and buying a stream means "you ain't pwopa char'un" ultimately, everyone's finances and ability to commit are different, the club getting a tenner for someone to painstakingly watch us online rather than nothing is something at least. Choosing a stream over not going out of laziness(?) Again, understandable, how many of us growned and gave a "here we go again" on Saturday once rovers equalised. When you're that predictably bad, gotta be an easy decision to pass up attending. 

And, ultimately, that's the issue, it's not the interwebs fault for our dwindling attendance. Another season in league fecking one playing pretty jank and flirting with a relegation battle to the FOURTH FING FOURTH division of English football is.
I'm pretty confident if we were second in the table having a good fight for promotion that there'd be a few more bums on seats.

* As an extra note, when visiting I always check to see if we've got a home game on during that time, as yeah, nothing beats watching the game in the flesh.

shirty5

Being saying it for far too long Tel. You are bang on. It’s not the whole issue why attendances have dropped but it’s part of the problem, not just for us.

In the long run it will hurt clubs at this level and below. People won’t be able to get out of the habit and will just watch games from indoors 

TEL

Showmetheway2gohome said:

The main factor for the crowds is results.it may sway some but if the team is winning you can’t beat being there live because of the atmosphere.but when there losing no one wants to go.we’ve had 5000 less crowds before there was Charlton tv. So £10 to the club is better than nothing. 

Can't agree with the 5000 less crowds unless you go back to the dim and dark days of Selhurst. Look at how the crowds have plummeted since Charlton Tv was available via vpn. 

newyorkaddick

It's a major factor for me definitely, I've only been to one home game in three years (Ipswich 4-4) but have watched probably half the games on the stream.  

Was attending 6-7 times per season but lost the habit after the Covid lockdowns etc..  If I attend in person I need to leave home three hours before KO and likewise get home late - no longer willing to give up so much time when the team is so poor and an excellent alternative to being there in person exists when I'm so inclined.

Sillybilly

Mendonca In Asdas said:

Lots and probably many more reasons to stay at home and watch it on a stream

1) Poor football on offer, it’s woeful, league one football is dire, you can only take it for so long, and people would rather use their time to do other, more productive things, how many times for those at the games have you sat there, and thought why on earth am I doing this?

2) Train strikes - You never know from one week to another whether they are on or off.

3) We didn’t even know this week until late on that the match was going ahead.

4) Cost of living crisis, and cost of getting to a match.

5) Supporter Churn, ie people move away, pass away.

6) People are fed up of how the club is being run, it’s just doesn’t come across as a family club anymore.

7) If people have got to the point that they can’t even be bothered to watch the game on a stream, then we really have got a problem.

8) I haven’t got a problem with Charlton Tv, I think it’s a great service for people who can’t get to matches, or can’t afford to come to matches.

9) How our current owner can be proud of what he’s created in the last 2 years (football wise) is beyond me.

I’m there I’m afraid.  Living far away and adapting to disability I have welcomed the (legitimate) streams as a way of keeping in touch. However I reached a new low on Saturday where I realised I couldn’t justify parting with a tenner to watch the increasing pile of shite on offer. I had nothing better to do but just couldn’t be arsed. Steve Brown’s inane verbal diahorea has also gradually worn me down to the point where I really don’t want to hear him anymore. In all other respects bar some occasional dodgy camera work Charlton TV is very well done and a blessing for those of us who can’t get along. But it’s not the reason I’m not attending. If I was fit and still local I’d have given up a while ago for all the reasons with which we are sadly familiar. 

TEL

valleynick66 said:

Match day tickets are significantly overpriced. Even if they compare to other clubs they are still an expensive purchase. Even more so in the middle of a very real cost of living crisis. That is true wider than our club. 

The stream is welcome and priced correctly. It’s one of the few things we don’t need to take issue with. 

Except Nick it was devised for overseas fans and not those in the UK. So you think a family of say three getting the game for a tenner is ok? What price would you realistically put on a match day ticket per adult/ child then? I agree £30 is ridiculous, but we all know that..  

shirty5

TEL said:

valleynick66 said:

Match day tickets are significantly overpriced. Even if they compare to other clubs they are still an expensive purchase. Even more so in the middle of a very real cost of living crisis. That is true wider than our club. 

The stream is welcome and priced correctly. It’s one of the few things we don’t need to take issue with. 

Except Nick it was devised for overseas fans and not those in the UK. So you think a family of say three getting the game for a tenner is ok? What price would you realistically put on a match day ticket per adult/ child then? I agree £30 is ridiculous, but we all know that..  

Sandgaard set this up thinking he could attract a worldwide audience of people who would want to watch Charlton Athletic. Thousands would watch every Saturday afternoon. 

All that’s happened is the tech savvy ones (A fair few on here with their VPN’s) have worked you don’t have to be in another country to watch it and even for free without paying a tenner. 

We never seen the numbers who watch it and it’s very doubtful they would be announced

TEL

CL_Phantom said:

As another overseas supporter going to chip in. I've spent far too much watching us online last couple of seasons, probably a lot more than if I was still living at home and attending. 

It seems to have become the big bad and buying a stream means "you ain't pwopa char'un" ultimately, everyone's finances and ability to commit are different, the club getting a tenner for someone to painstakingly watch us online rather than nothing is something at least. Choosing a stream over not going out of laziness(?) Again, understandable, how many of us growned and gave a "here we go again" on Saturday once rovers equalised. When you're that predictably bad, gotta be an easy decision to pass up attending. 

And, ultimately, that's the issue, it's not the interwebs fault for our dwindling attendance. Another season in league fecking one playing pretty jank and flirting with a relegation battle to the FOURTH FING FOURTH division of English football is.
I'm pretty confident if we were second in the table having a good fight for promotion that there'd be a few more bums on seats.

* As an extra note, when visiting I always check to see if we've got a home game on during that time, as yeah, nothing beats watching the game in the flesh.

I book my holidays around getting to games and usually get to see 5-8 games a season plus the Charlton Tv season ticket. However, I'd love to see how many Charlton Tv viewers are actually based overseas rather than sitting watching in Sevenoaks or Welling for instance. The fact remains Charlton or more to the point the ego,  have shot themselves in the foot with whole families being able to pay a tenner to watch from the comfort of there home in Kent/SE London. The crowds have plummeted since the Sandgaard's arrived along with Charlton Tv. Our crowds were nowhere near as poor even during the protests against Duchatelet. I was shocked at how empty the ground was during my  September/October visits and we were winning then. The idiot drums on about raising match day revenue, and here's just one hole in his ridiculous tenure as owner. 

Algarveaddick

Every pub geared to UK tourists in Albufeira now has firesticks and/or IPTV, they can stream any game. My local is happy to put the Addicks on every week if we are in there drinking, and the club gain nothing. I actually have a subscription, and I rarely watch in the pub as it is too embarrasing, but if I wanted to, I could - though the cost of the booze would of course be far more than the cost of CATV.     

se9addick

It’s definitely been a factor in my attendance at away matches dropping (alongside unreliable and expensive trains). Not so much home matches, but I’m fortunate that I love relatively close. If it was a couple of hours each way to the Valley I could definitely understand it being a factor.

CL_Phantom

TEL said:

CL_Phantom said:

As another overseas supporter going to chip in. I've spent far too much watching us online last couple of seasons, probably a lot more than if I was still living at home and attending. 

It seems to have become the big bad and buying a stream means "you ain't pwopa char'un" ultimately, everyone's finances and ability to commit are different, the club getting a tenner for someone to painstakingly watch us online rather than nothing is something at least. Choosing a stream over not going out of laziness(?) Again, understandable, how many of us growned and gave a "here we go again" on Saturday once rovers equalised. When you're that predictably bad, gotta be an easy decision to pass up attending. 

And, ultimately, that's the issue, it's not the interwebs fault for our dwindling attendance. Another season in league fecking one playing pretty jank and flirting with a relegation battle to the FOURTH FING FOURTH division of English football is.
I'm pretty confident if we were second in the table having a good fight for promotion that there'd be a few more bums on seats.

* As an extra note, when visiting I always check to see if we've got a home game on during that time, as yeah, nothing beats watching the game in the flesh.

I book my holidays around getting to games and usually get to see 5-8 games a season plus the Charlton Tv season ticket. However, I'd love to see how many Charlton Tv viewers are actually based overseas rather than sitting watching in Sevenoaks or Welling for instance. The fact remains Charlton or more to the point the ego,  have shot themselves in the foot with whole families being able to pay a tenner to watch from the comfort of there home in Kent/SE London. The crowds have plummeted since the Sandgaard's arrived along with Charlton Tv. Our crowds were nowhere near as poor even during the protests against Duchatelet. I was shocked at how empty the ground was during my  September/October visits and we were winning then. The idiot drums on about raising match day revenue, and here's just one hole in his ridiculous tenure as owner. 

Maybe a cast survey into the effects of streaming would be helpful in identifying any issue. (Now that I think about it, has there been one?) For instance, how many in person regular attendees have switched to streaming full time, why, etc.

As you say though, the main problem is the idiot. He's made it very easy to avoid going in person, mainly, by being a fucking tit. 

TEL

CL_Phantom said:

TEL said:

CL_Phantom said:

As another overseas supporter going to chip in. I've spent far too much watching us online last couple of seasons, probably a lot more than if I was still living at home and attending. 

It seems to have become the big bad and buying a stream means "you ain't pwopa char'un" ultimately, everyone's finances and ability to commit are different, the club getting a tenner for someone to painstakingly watch us online rather than nothing is something at least. Choosing a stream over not going out of laziness(?) Again, understandable, how many of us growned and gave a "here we go again" on Saturday once rovers equalised. When you're that predictably bad, gotta be an easy decision to pass up attending. 

And, ultimately, that's the issue, it's not the interwebs fault for our dwindling attendance. Another season in league fecking one playing pretty jank and flirting with a relegation battle to the FOURTH FING FOURTH division of English football is.
I'm pretty confident if we were second in the table having a good fight for promotion that there'd be a few more bums on seats.

* As an extra note, when visiting I always check to see if we've got a home game on during that time, as yeah, nothing beats watching the game in the flesh.

I book my holidays around getting to games and usually get to see 5-8 games a season plus the Charlton Tv season ticket. However, I'd love to see how many Charlton Tv viewers are actually based overseas rather than sitting watching in Sevenoaks or Welling for instance. The fact remains Charlton or more to the point the ego,  have shot themselves in the foot with whole families being able to pay a tenner to watch from the comfort of there home in Kent/SE London. The crowds have plummeted since the Sandgaard's arrived along with Charlton Tv. Our crowds were nowhere near as poor even during the protests against Duchatelet. I was shocked at how empty the ground was during my  September/October visits and we were winning then. The idiot drums on about raising match day revenue, and here's just one hole in his ridiculous tenure as owner. 

Maybe a cast survey into the effects of streaming would be helpful in identifying any issue. (Now that I think about it, has there been one?) For instance, how many in person regular attendees have switched to streaming full time, why, etc.

As you say though, the main problem is the idiot. He's made it very easy to avoid going in person, mainly, by being a fucking tit. 

Spot on 

Stuart_the_Red

A difficult one.

I’ve lived abroad for years and can now watch the Addicks on a weekly basis after having bought an annual pass! Believe me, if I lived in the UK I would have a season ticket and would be there every match, irrespective of how bad they are playing!

Surely a difference has to be made between the fans who live and follow from abroad and those who live in the UK and watch using a VPN. I can’t imagine that there are thousands and thousands doing that and costing the club hundreds of thousands.

valleynick66

TEL said:

valleynick66 said:

Match day tickets are significantly overpriced. Even if they compare to other clubs they are still an expensive purchase. Even more so in the middle of a very real cost of living crisis. That is true wider than our club. 

The stream is welcome and priced correctly. It’s one of the few things we don’t need to take issue with. 

Except Nick it was devised for overseas fans and not those in the UK. So you think a family of say three getting the game for a tenner is ok? What price would you realistically put on a match day ticket per adult/ child then? I agree £30 is ridiculous, but we all know that..  

yes I do. It’s comparable to Sky and other steaming services. 

Covid came the world changed. 

New way of life whether you like it or not. 

HardyAddick

a winning team will bring fans to The Valley

Airman Brown

Showmetheway2gohome said:

The main factor for the crowds is results.it may sway some but if the team is winning you can’t beat being there live because of the atmosphere.but when there losing no one wants to go.we’ve had 5000 less crowds before there was Charlton tv. So £10 to the club is better than nothing. 

The club isn’t getting £10. From what we’ve seen of the revenue split it gets more over a certain threshold, but I’d guess it’s lucky to receive a fiver, before its costs. Bear in mind the first £1.67 goes in VAT. Then there is the ticket revenue which is inevitably lost, whatever that is.

However, I think the main problem is that the football is rubbish.

valleynick66

CL_Phantom said:

TEL said:

CL_Phantom said:

As another overseas supporter going to chip in. I've spent far too much watching us online last couple of seasons, probably a lot more than if I was still living at home and attending. 

It seems to have become the big bad and buying a stream means "you ain't pwopa char'un" ultimately, everyone's finances and ability to commit are different, the club getting a tenner for someone to painstakingly watch us online rather than nothing is something at least. Choosing a stream over not going out of laziness(?) Again, understandable, how many of us growned and gave a "here we go again" on Saturday once rovers equalised. When you're that predictably bad, gotta be an easy decision to pass up attending. 

And, ultimately, that's the issue, it's not the interwebs fault for our dwindling attendance. Another season in league fecking one playing pretty jank and flirting with a relegation battle to the FOURTH FING FOURTH division of English football is.
I'm pretty confident if we were second in the table having a good fight for promotion that there'd be a few more bums on seats.

* As an extra note, when visiting I always check to see if we've got a home game on during that time, as yeah, nothing beats watching the game in the flesh.

I book my holidays around getting to games and usually get to see 5-8 games a season plus the Charlton Tv season ticket. However, I'd love to see how many Charlton Tv viewers are actually based overseas rather than sitting watching in Sevenoaks or Welling for instance. The fact remains Charlton or more to the point the ego,  have shot themselves in the foot with whole families being able to pay a tenner to watch from the comfort of there home in Kent/SE London. The crowds have plummeted since the Sandgaard's arrived along with Charlton Tv. Our crowds were nowhere near as poor even during the protests against Duchatelet. I was shocked at how empty the ground was during my  September/October visits and we were winning then. The idiot drums on about raising match day revenue, and here's just one hole in his ridiculous tenure as owner. 

Maybe a cast survey into the effects of streaming would be helpful in identifying any issue. (Now that I think about it, has there been one?) For instance, how many in person regular attendees have switched to streaming full time, why, etc.

As you say though, the main problem is the idiot. He's made it very easy to avoid going in person, mainly, by being a fucking tit. 

Only possible change resulting in this would be an increase in cost and therefore alienating more fans. Poor idea in my opinion. 

The stream is an advert as much as anything for wavering fans. If the football improves some will return in person. 

But the cost of living issues are hitting more and ever harder. Do not underestimate this. 

lancashire lad

living in  North Dorset the cost for us both to visit the Valley is about £120, the annual subscription to CAFCTV is about £200, add to this the poor football being played and it is a no brainer so we watch on CAFTV, however I hope we will make a few away matches in the new year that are down this way, and it a couple of seasons we can see Charlton at Yeovil!

se9addick

lancashire lad said:

living in  North Dorset the cost for us both to visit the Valley is about £120, the annual subscription to CAFCTV is about £200, add to this the poor football being played and it is a no brainer so we watch on CAFTV, however I hope we will make a few away matches in the new year that are down this way, and it a couple of seasons we can see Charlton at Yeovil!

I doubt Yeovil will be getting promo…ah, I see!

killerandflash

All clubs have some sort of streaming service though. Funnily the successful ones haven't seen their gates drop off.

Ours might be better quality, but Ipswich fans are hardly thinking - "if we had a former Sky presenter plus John Wark and Matt Holland as pundits, I would stop going to games."

Stig

Stuart_the_Red said:

A difficult one.

I’ve lived abroad for years and can now watch the Addicks on a weekly basis after having bought an annual pass! Believe me, if I lived in the UK I would have a season ticket and would be there every match, irrespective of how bad they are playing!

Surely a difference has to be made between the fans who live and follow from abroad and those who live in the UK and watch using a VPN. I can’t imagine that there are thousands and thousands doing that and costing the club hundreds of thousands.

I think you're right. If they'd thought this through they'd be saying that having a VPN isn't enough to qualify for live streams. Instead, overseas viewers would have to have a registered overseas address on the system, and perhaps even have to have a pin which would be physically mailed to that address. It would be more bureaucratic, but it would help cut off the escape route.