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Charlton TV and it's part in the poor attendances

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    A difficult one.

    I’ve lived abroad for years and can now watch the Addicks on a weekly basis after having bought an annual pass! Believe me, if I lived in the UK I would have a season ticket and would be there every match, irrespective of how bad they are playing!

    Surely a difference has to be made between the fans who live and follow from abroad and those who live in the UK and watch using a VPN. I can’t imagine that there are thousands and thousands doing that and costing the club hundreds of thousands.
    I think you're right. If they'd thought this through they'd be saying that having a VPN isn't enough to qualify for live streams. Instead, overseas viewers would have to have a registered overseas address on the system, and perhaps even have to have a pin which would be physically mailed to that address. It would be more bureaucratic, but it would help cut off the escape route. 
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    before we can say if Charlton tv is having any effect, we need to know the viewing figures of local home based fans. Including those using illicit means to accesses it, as home games are supposed to be streamed to overseas only, except for this December due to the world cup.
    I think the crowd numbers are the true representation of what might be called the core support of Charlton athletic. As a club I have felt that our support is lower than many people wish to admit and getting smaller with the demographic changes of London.
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    edited December 2022
    msomerton said:
    before we can say if Charlton tv is having any effect, we need to know the viewing figures of local home based fans. Including those using illicit means to accesses it, as home games are supposed to be streamed to overseas only, except for this December due to the world cup.
    I think the crowd numbers are the true representation of what might be called the core support of Charlton athletic. As a club I have felt that our support is lower than many people wish to admit and getting smaller with the demographic changes of London.
    Most people watching the stream will be in the UK regardless of whether it is supposed to available here. The club knows that in general and doesn’t care. 

    I don’t think you can have core support below the number of season ticket holders. All crowds are the product of a variety of circumstances at the time - we pretty much know we can get 10,000 home fans in L1, 15,000 in the Championship, both in average circumstances, and 20,000 plus for any opposition in the PL. 

    The numbers are depressed by where we are on and off the pitch but they will respond if things improve - or get worse. I don’t think it has anything to do with demographic change tbh, unless you want to go back 50 years.
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    Maybe Charlton (and other club) should experiment by not streaming a particular Saturday game.

    I doubt that it would have any noticeable effect on the physical attendance.  (Tens I would guess -  possibly a few hundred?).

    Not the best scientific trial but it would give an idea what's going on!
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    Stig said:
    A difficult one.

    I’ve lived abroad for years and can now watch the Addicks on a weekly basis after having bought an annual pass! Believe me, if I lived in the UK I would have a season ticket and would be there every match, irrespective of how bad they are playing!

    Surely a difference has to be made between the fans who live and follow from abroad and those who live in the UK and watch using a VPN. I can’t imagine that there are thousands and thousands doing that and costing the club hundreds of thousands.
    I think you're right. If they'd thought this through they'd be saying that having a VPN isn't enough to qualify for live streams. Instead, overseas viewers would have to have a registered overseas address on the system, and perhaps even have to have a pin which would be physically mailed to that address. It would be more bureaucratic, but it would help cut off the escape route. 
    What about people living in Scotland or Northern Ireland or Cornwall or Cumbria or Cardiff or...

    Due to my personal circumstances I either watch the stream and pay for it or don't watch it.

    Watching on the TV is no substitute for being there, given the choice I would be there.
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    Cafc43v3r said:
    Stig said:
    A difficult one.

    I’ve lived abroad for years and can now watch the Addicks on a weekly basis after having bought an annual pass! Believe me, if I lived in the UK I would have a season ticket and would be there every match, irrespective of how bad they are playing!

    Surely a difference has to be made between the fans who live and follow from abroad and those who live in the UK and watch using a VPN. I can’t imagine that there are thousands and thousands doing that and costing the club hundreds of thousands.
    I think you're right. If they'd thought this through they'd be saying that having a VPN isn't enough to qualify for live streams. Instead, overseas viewers would have to have a registered overseas address on the system, and perhaps even have to have a pin which would be physically mailed to that address. It would be more bureaucratic, but it would help cut off the escape route. 
    What about people living in Scotland or Northern Ireland or Cornwall or Cumbria or Cardiff or...

    Due to my personal circumstances I either watch the stream and pay for it or don't watch it.

    Watching on the TV is no substitute for being there, given the choice I would be there.
    Most Charlton fans grew up supporting Charlton as they are their local team. The places that you mention, those people have they always grew up in those places, or did they move away for their own personal choices. 

    I knew a few Charlton fans that moved away from the local area, and will just go to Charlton away games now where they are within an hour’s drive of where they now live or will catch the highlights on the Saturday night show.

    Before streaming these people in Carlisle and Humberside for example could have only listened to the radio or followed Sky Sports News.

    Streaming was not designed for the UK Market. But as mentioned people will always find ways round it, unless restrictions change like Stigs idea. 


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    There’s no possibility the thing is viable as currently packaged if the audience was restricted to the actual overseas audience. it will be a few hundred.
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    shirty5 said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Stig said:
    A difficult one.

    I’ve lived abroad for years and can now watch the Addicks on a weekly basis after having bought an annual pass! Believe me, if I lived in the UK I would have a season ticket and would be there every match, irrespective of how bad they are playing!

    Surely a difference has to be made between the fans who live and follow from abroad and those who live in the UK and watch using a VPN. I can’t imagine that there are thousands and thousands doing that and costing the club hundreds of thousands.
    I think you're right. If they'd thought this through they'd be saying that having a VPN isn't enough to qualify for live streams. Instead, overseas viewers would have to have a registered overseas address on the system, and perhaps even have to have a pin which would be physically mailed to that address. It would be more bureaucratic, but it would help cut off the escape route. 
    What about people living in Scotland or Northern Ireland or Cornwall or Cumbria or Cardiff or...

    Due to my personal circumstances I either watch the stream and pay for it or don't watch it.

    Watching on the TV is no substitute for being there, given the choice I would be there.
    Most Charlton fans grew up supporting Charlton as they are their local team. The places that you mention, those people have they always grew up in those places, or did they move away for their own personal choices. 

    I knew a few Charlton fans that moved away from the local area, and will just go to Charlton away games now where they are within an hour’s drive of where they now live or will catch the highlights on the Saturday night show.

    Before streaming these people in Carlisle and Humberside for example could have only listened to the radio or followed Sky Sports News.

    Streaming was not designed for the UK Market. But as mentioned people will always find ways round it, unless restrictions change like Stigs idea. 


    That pretty much is me, is it better I give the club a £10 to watch the game or give them nothing?

    How do you differentiate that from someone in Bexley who would normally go but can't be bothered?  I have no idea.  If streaming is the cause of lower attendances the volume if streams would go up as attendances go down wouldn't they?  Have you seen any evidence of that?  I would suggest that they are either flat, or in decline as well as "streamers" stop streaming and "goers" start streaming.  

    When I did go home and away I wouldn't have not gone to watch it on TV.
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    The attendances reflect largely what is going on on the field and to a lesser degree off it. Were the club pushing for promotion and playing attractive football then the numbers would increase. You will have a fall off in those willing to pay to watch a poor side play poor football, especially as the recession starts to bite. I suspect most of the no-shows don't pay to watch the stream either.  
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    Must admit I have saved myself a long trip once or twice and tuned in, feet up with a glass of wine is quite appealing at the moment.
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    Streaming surely has a detrimental effect on attendances in the long term.  Plus the club potentially losing money by lack of food and merchandise sales.
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    All clubs have some sort of streaming service though. Funnily the successful ones haven't seen their gates drop off.

    Ours might be better quality, but Ipswich fans are hardly thinking - "if we had a former Sky presenter plus John Wark and Matt Holland as pundits, I would stop going to games."
    Spot on
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    I am like Roland,i watch every game that Charlton play via steam.

    What are you doing tomorrow Roland.
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    DOUCHER said:
    I think its very simple really - the worse your doing on the pitch, the bigger the impact the streaming has as the in ground experience becomes a negative not a positive. That aside, it will be the death of football as we know it in the long run. 
    You mean like TV was the death of it? 

    It's not the same product/experience you are selling. 
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    I didn’t renew my season ticket this year and I haven’t been to a game. It’s the shite football that’s l can’t stand. Losing is part of the game but that tippy tappy fart  around at the back is absolutely tedious. I do watch it on the TV channel when it’s on. But then usually wonder why. Though I did enjoy the Bristol Rovers game. Start playing proper football and il return. 
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    Cafc43v3r said:
    DOUCHER said:
    I think its very simple really - the worse your doing on the pitch, the bigger the impact the streaming has as the in ground experience becomes a negative not a positive. That aside, it will be the death of football as we know it in the long run. 
    You mean like TV was the death of it? 

    It's not the same product/experience you are selling. 
    of football as we know it, yes - its indirectly killed the fa cup already and will eventually devour a lot of the league - doesn't matter anyway, i think we're becoming a reality programme - the worse the football team gets, the bigger the drama  - genius  
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    I am like Roland,i watch every game that Charlton play via steam.

    What are you doing tomorrow Roland.
    For where you live you have a good excuse.
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    cafcsinger said:
    Personally i think Charlton TV should just be for people abroad. We should be trying to get as many fans to the Valley as possible. 

    What about disabled fans living 3 or 4 hours away from The Valley so can't attend. Should be an exemption from the EFL for them to buy the stream.

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    cafcsinger said:
    Personally i think Charlton TV should just be for people abroad. We should be trying to get as many fans to the Valley as possible. 

    What about disabled fans living 3 or 4 hours away from The Valley so can't attend. Should be an exemption from the EFL for them to buy the stream.

    How did they watch before streaming ?
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    They didn’t unless the game was broadcast somewhere in the world. 
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    The solution is shoot everyone using a "dodgy" stream and everyone else has until 48 hours before kick off to submit a "reasonable excuse" to a panel chaired by @DOUCHER who will decide who is worthy of being able to purchase a streaming pass. 
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    MrOneLung said:
    cafcsinger said:
    Personally i think Charlton TV should just be for people abroad. We should be trying to get as many fans to the Valley as possible. 

    What about disabled fans living 3 or 4 hours away from The Valley so can't attend. Should be an exemption from the EFL for them to buy the stream.

    How did they watch before streaming ?
    They didn't but why would you go back to using an outside toilet because that's what you did before? 
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    The  main problem is Sadiq Khan and Southern Eastern for my hardly non attendance at the Valley.

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    I'd like to know the figures of fans that stream the games who live within one hour of The Valley.
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    I'd like to know the figures of fans that stream the games who live within one hour of The Valley.
    It would paint the picture and show if it's a problem or not.
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    msomerton said:
    before we can say if Charlton tv is having any effect, we need to know the viewing figures of local home based fans. Including those using illicit means to accesses it, as home games are supposed to be streamed to overseas only, except for this December due to the world cup.
    I think the crowd numbers are the true representation of what might be called the core support of Charlton athletic. As a club I have felt that our support is lower than many people wish to admit and getting smaller with the demographic changes of London.
    Most people watching the stream will be in the UK regardless of whether it is supposed to available here. The club knows that in general and doesn’t care. 

    I don’t think you can have core support below the number of season ticket holders. All crowds are the product of a variety of circumstances at the time - we pretty much know we can get 10,000 home fans in L1, 15,000 in the Championship, both in average circumstances, and 20,000 plus for any opposition in the PL. 

    The numbers are depressed by where we are on and off the pitch but they will respond if things improve - or get worse. I don’t think it has anything to do with demographic change tbh, unless you want to go back 50 years.
    On the demographic change then I believe you are wrong. 40.6% of London`s population were not born in the Uk and in the boroughs surrounding the Valley it will be higher. a large number of these people will have a team in the bith nation that they support because of family ties, the only English football they watched was that served up by the prems overseas sales of live games, so mainly the so called big six. They will have little or no knowledge of us.
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    Cafc43v3r said:
    MrOneLung said:
    cafcsinger said:
    Personally i think Charlton TV should just be for people abroad. We should be trying to get as many fans to the Valley as possible. 

    What about disabled fans living 3 or 4 hours away from The Valley so can't attend. Should be an exemption from the EFL for them to buy the stream.

    How did they watch before streaming ?
    They didn't but why would you go back to using an outside toilet because that's what you did before? 
    It doesnt bother me, but people are saying ban the stream, except for this group, that group etc. Either ban it, or dont.
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    On the other hand, I stopped going to away games many  years ago but never miss a home one, season ticket holder.. And I now pay a tenner to watch all the away games via VPN. So the club is doing better out of me than they would have done to the tune of around £250 per year.
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