That article mentions Zak's slip catching. Warner is similar, a very reliable member of the corden which is a key role.
If the ability not to miss wicket taking opportunites is such an important criteria for selection then it does rather beg the question as to why Foakes hasn't been picked to keep wicket.
Can I preface this by saying that Moeen Ali is, on balance, my favourite cricketer?
Certainly, he’s England’s most underrated in recent times. A genuine match-winner with the ball – just look at that strike rate – with a sensational fourth-innings record and, at one point, a proper all-rounder, capable of locking down a spot in the top six and serving as a frontline bowler. He has brought more joy to England fans than he is often given credit for. He is a double World Cup winner, an Ashes winner, and will be remembered as a great of English cricket.
All of which is a prelude to saying: Moeen probably won’t be a success at No.3 in the Ashes. Not by the conventional metrics, of runs and averages, if it’s not now too gauche to reference such staid statistics. The recent numbers are not encouraging. Moeen has a high score of 60 in Test cricket since 2017, and he has averaged less than 20 in that time. Sure, first-drops sometimes fall early. Ollie Pope said last year that batting at No.3 is “only one ball different from No.4”, an indicator of how it’s possible to adjust, but also of the perils of the post. But there is usually an expectation that at some point a No.3 will make a contribution. With Moeen, that’s a faint hope. And even he knows it. “That would be amazing obviously,” he said, when asked if he can fulfil the dream of making an Ashes hundred. “But you’ve got to be a bit more realistic.”
And yet somehow, still, this move makes a kind of warped sense. There is a cricketing argument. You can see glimpses of the batter Moeen once was if you really want to, perhaps in the 46 first-innings balls faced at Headingley, or the improvement in his T20I returns in 2022. These days, you should always expect the unexpected, and nothing would be more so than Moeen peeling off a hundred at Old Trafford. Even a few starts might be enough. See off the openers and the first change, make them wear down the ball with a bouncer barrage, allow those beneath to get going against the greenhorn spinner and the all-rounders.
It’s the effect on everyone else that’s key. With the captain unable to bowl, this is the only way to balance the XI, with Moeen as the spinner and four other quicks. Then you have to figure out the order from there.
Sherlock Holmes probably wasn’t talking about England’s No.3 conundrum when he said, “when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”. but it fits. Joe Root: could but won’t. Harry Brook: would but shouldn’t. Ben Stokes: best left with the tail. Jonny Bairstow: don’t even think about it. Moeen is willing, and you’re not sacrificing much by moving him from No.7. And once you do that, everything else fits.
It’s crucial that Moeen wants this. It was he who approached Brendon McCullum with the idea ahead of Headingley’s final day, explaining how he wanted a proper piece of the action. There’s a sad sweetness here. Moeen has spent his whole career getting messed around, without his full value being celebrated. Now he has finally found himself in a team that loves him for who he is, and he’s realised he misses the nonsense. He is raring to go. Maybe that’s enough.
England have made a virtue, much mocked by the Aussies, of feeling like they’ve won even when they’ve lost. And this is a move that can’t really fail, because the hope of individual success is remote. Should anyone from No.4 down make a score, England will argue that Moeen being at No.3 was part of the reason why.
Still, there is an oddness here, in picking, essentially, a sacrificial No.3 so everyone else can feel normal. England have removed much of the mystery of Test cricket, done what they can to challenge the assumed orthodoxies and received wisdoms that have weighed down sides of the past. Now here they are moving things around to ensure Root and the rest can have their favourite numbers next to their names. And yet it does look safer. Bairstow at seven and Chris Woakes at eight. That feels good. Some players do just play better when they are where they want to be.
The greater triumph here is in overturning the narratives of Ashes past. It’s standard for any encounter with Australia to see England’s plans ripped apart. It’s a fun game, at the start of any tour, to try and predict their XI for the final Test, but even the most creative of England fans wouldn’t have had Moeen Ali at No.3 for half of an Ashes series at the start of June. But here we are, and it doesn’t feel like madness.
I have always liked Sam Curran as a cricketer. Has he given up on red ball cricket for England in favour of representing them in limited overs games plus IPL etc, or have England determined he isn't suited for Test match cricket?
Given the age of our bowling attack for the coming Test at Old Trafford we need to be thinking of getting ready to replace these guys with younger players over the coming years. Although only 25, Curran is quite an experienced cricketer now. I would have thought he would have suited a Woakes-type role, bowling after the first string bowlers and being able to bat at 7 or 8.
I have always liked Sam Curran as a cricketer. Has he given up on red ball cricket for England in favour of representing them in limited overs games plus IPL etc, or have England determined he isn't suited for Test match cricket?
Given the age of our bowling attack for the coming Test at Old Trafford we need to be thinking of getting ready to replace these guys with younger players over the coming years. Although only 25, Curran is quite an experienced cricketer now. I would have thought he would have suited a Woakes-type role, bowling after the first string bowlers and being able to bat at 7 or 8.
I reckon he might come in for Stokes if Stokes retires or takes time out for a knee operation etc.
As you say, Anderson, Broad, Moeen are all nearing the end of their careers, even Stokes, Woakes, Leach aren't young.
We need to be giving the likes of Curran, Tongue, Sam Cook, Rehan Ahmed chances, at the very least against Bangladesh, WI etc.
agree, we need to find a way to get Curran into the team, although wasn't he one of the most expensive signings in IPL so may want to prioritise that whilst it is on
Curran has played one red ball game for Surrey this year after arriving back from the IPL (I believe there has only been 3 in that time because of the blast) he still very much wants to play red ball but is having his fitness managed by the ECB. I was calling for him to play the role Woakes did in the last test but Woakes has made that spot his own.
Aus going in with no spinner. Feel like it's a risk for them. Both Green and Hazlewood are fragile this will be Cummins 5th test back to back in an incredibly short time and he's bowled the most overs of these Aus bowlers. If we can take Head on as we will be aiming to do then it puts a lot on the quicks. If one breaks down in game then we can hopefully take advantage.
Feels like they are putting everything into this match which may put them in a difficult position selecting quicks come the Oval if we do manage to pull off a win in this game. Have we got them running scared?
Got tickets for Friday and Sunday and as it stands now according to the weather apps, I should get a full days play on Friday and with the rain around there is a fairly decent chance it will go to Sunday. After a wonderful June, July has been pretty wet up here and I think Anderson could well find some form on his home ground and get that ball swinging.
The draw now 3.9 from a high of 5.4. England are 2.58 (from 2.30) and Australia are 2.78 (from 2.42)
What was the draw pre match for the previous tests? I thought I was seeing 7.5 ish for Lords but that may be my mind playing tricks
I can't recall but it would have been much bigger than it is here simply because the forecast wasn't anywhere near as bad as it is for this Test. The draw is now as short as it has ever been at 3.80 with England 2.60 and Australia 2.82
IF he wanted it, Curran could easily be a number 6 batsman who also bowls. He has the potential to be more than just a tail end slogger.
Absolutely and he's been a victim of his own success in some ways. As a youngster that was always his role but then when he broke through to the senior surrey side whilst still doing his GCSE's he was batted down the order to protect him a bit. His bowling was a success and so became the focus. Its only the last year or 2 where he has really been played for his batting - nailed that number 3 role in T20s for Surrey and franchises and batted 6 for Surrey in the red ball games he has played scoring his first ton last season.
He's always had the talent anyone remember that 96 he score in an ODI a couple years ago to nearly win England a game from an impossible position? He played with the tail in an almost stokes-like manner. He has had to get back to training like a batsman to get the consistency in his batting but I genuinely think he is now a different player than when he last played a test match. He's never played as the allrounder either, he's always been 3rd seamer batting 8 which doesn't suit him. He is the heir to stokes.
Won't quote the whole post but that Article about Ali is bang on. If he can make 2 starts and 1 half start in 4 innings that will be job done. Doesn't need to go big just contribute.
Aus going in with no spinner. Feel like it's a risk for them. Both Green and Hazlewood are fragile this will be Cummins 5th test back to back in an incredibly short time and he's bowled the most overs of these Aus bowlers. If we can take Head on as we will be aiming to do then it puts a lot on the quicks. If one breaks down in game then we can hopefully take advantage.
Feels like they are putting everything into this match which may put them in a difficult position selecting quicks come the Oval if we do manage to pull off a win in this game. Have we got them running scared?
I would love to know what Shane Warne would have to say about Australia playing at Old Trafford - of all places - without a spinner
Rehan Ahmed has signed a contract extension at Leicestershire until 2027. Good to see a player not lured to one of the bigger counties as soon as they get some success
People are now climbing over each other to back the draw and it is now down to 3.65. If we only get two three days of play it's unlikely that it will be the spinners that win the match for either side.
Aus going in with no spinner. Feel like it's a risk for them. Both Green and Hazlewood are fragile this will be Cummins 5th test back to back in an incredibly short time and he's bowled the most overs of these Aus bowlers. If we can take Head on as we will be aiming to do then it puts a lot on the quicks. If one breaks down in game then we can hopefully take advantage.
Feels like they are putting everything into this match which may put them in a difficult position selecting quicks come the Oval if we do manage to pull off a win in this game. Have we got them running scared?
I would love to know what Shane Warne would have to say about Australia playing at Old Trafford - of all places - without a spinner
‘Streuth mate that’s a bold decision from Patty Cummins. I still think our boys will have enough to beat England, but a lot depends on the weather and the toss’
People are now climbing over each other to back the draw and it is now down to 3.65. If we only get two three days of play it's unlikely that it will be the spinners that win the match for either side.
Maybe we should last minute swap Foakes in for Moeen? Shove Bairstow to 3...
i guess aussies are banking on lots of rain breaks to get their bowlers a shower and a massage. V risky to go into a 4th test with such a packed series with all seamers.
People are now climbing over each other to back the draw and it is now down to 3.65. If we only get two three days of play it's unlikely that it will be the spinners that win the match for either side.
Maybe we should last minute swap Foakes in for Moeen? Shove Bairstow to 3...
A bit like this you mean (from above):
(4) Going without Moeen and giving the gloves to Foakes, batting him at 7 and playing no front line spinner:
i guess aussies are banking on lots of rain breaks to get their bowlers a shower and a massage. V risky to go into a 4th test with such a packed series with all seamers.
With lots of rain breaks there might only be three of them bowling at any given time. If Moeen is hit out of the attack or as ineffective as Head might be then we might have one less seamer than them to rotate. They've also had the same ten day break as our bowlers and they don't have to bowl any of them in three or four over bursts as Wood does to be at his most effective.
Comments
If the ability not to miss wicket taking opportunites is such an important criteria for selection then it does rather beg the question as to why Foakes hasn't been picked to keep wicket.
Given the age of our bowling attack for the coming Test at Old Trafford we need to be thinking of getting ready to replace these guys with younger players over the coming years. Although only 25, Curran is quite an experienced cricketer now. I would have thought he would have suited a Woakes-type role, bowling after the first string bowlers and being able to bat at 7 or 8.
As you say, Anderson, Broad, Moeen are all nearing the end of their careers, even Stokes, Woakes, Leach aren't young.
We need to be giving the likes of Curran, Tongue, Sam Cook, Rehan Ahmed chances, at the very least against Bangladesh, WI etc.
I thought I was seeing 7.5 ish for Lords but that may be my mind playing tricks
Feels like they are putting everything into this match which may put them in a difficult position selecting quicks come the Oval if we do manage to pull off a win in this game. Have we got them running scared?
He's always had the talent anyone remember that 96 he score in an ODI a couple years ago to nearly win England a game from an impossible position? He played with the tail in an almost stokes-like manner. He has had to get back to training like a batsman to get the consistency in his batting but I genuinely think he is now a different player than when he last played a test match. He's never played as the allrounder either, he's always been 3rd seamer batting 8 which doesn't suit him. He is the heir to stokes.
Something like that maybe
But barely bowled him then dropped him.
What else can you say I guess?
If they are going to play him in this Test then I assume (barring injury) that he'll also play at the Oval.
Interesting factoid: Jimmy Anderson has never taken a five wicket haul at Old Trafford. This would be a good time to change that stat.
Dumping a young spinner after one game is a very England thing to do.
(4) Going without Moeen and giving the gloves to Foakes, batting him at 7 and playing no front line spinner:
1. Crawley 29.00
2. Duckett 50.95
3. Bairstow 30.76
4. Root 52.24
5. Brook 74.69
6. Stokes 37.22
7. Foakes 35.70
8. Broad 21.64
9. Woakes 30.46
10. Wood 16.05
11. Anderson 8.03