Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

England Cricket 2023

18384868889260

Comments

  • Leuth said:
    Just occurring to me how much current England would snap your hand off for Ashley bloody Giles even
    was extremely underrated. Tied up one end, good character to have in the dressing room and a handy number 8 with the bat.
    He wasn’t extremely underrated, he just wasn’t very good - he got 143 wickets at 40.6 in 53 tests, at a strike rate of just over 85. 
  • edited June 2023
    What’s so funny @kentaddick - those stats are truly abysmal. Saying he was extremely underrated is as laughable as the comment in this thread that said we lost the first test because Jack Leach didn’t play.
  • arny23394 said:
    What’s so funny @kentaddick - those stats are truly abysmal. Saying he was extremely underrated is as laughable as the comment in this thread that said we lost the first test because Jack Leach didn’t play.
    welcome to every england player to have played in the late 90s. 

    You don't play 53 test matches without being a very handy player. Hussain and Vaughan obviously rated him. As i said, underrated - stats dont tell the full story.
  • arny23394 said:
    What’s so funny @kentaddick - those stats are truly abysmal. Saying he was extremely underrated is as laughable as the comment in this thread that said we lost the first test because Jack Leach didn’t play.
    welcome to every england player to have played in the late 90s. 

    You don't play 53 test matches without being a very handy player. Hussain and Vaughan obviously rated him. As i said, underrated - stats dont tell the full story.
    Not sure there were any alternatives given Swann had pissed the hierarchy off, until Panesar showed up.

    We's tried Batty, Croft, Salisbury etc and at least Giles could bat a bit and bowl into the pads to try to keep runs down.
  • Giles fitted what the team needed away from the subcontinent, which was someone to keep one end tight while we rotated the seamers, as in the early to mid 2000s we had a great crop of seam bowlers. Where he really struggled was when conditions suited spin and he was expected to take wickets. 
  • arny23394 said:
    What’s so funny @kentaddick - those stats are truly abysmal. Saying he was extremely underrated is as laughable as the comment in this thread that said we lost the first test because Jack Leach didn’t play.
    welcome to every england player to have played in the late 90s. 

    You don't play 53 test matches without being a very handy player. Hussain and Vaughan obviously rated him. As i said, underrated - stats dont tell the full story.
    Gough, Caddick, Flintoff and Cork disagree with you. He played that many tests because there were no viable alternatives. He did a job, but in no circumstances was he ‘extremely underrated’.
  • arny23394 said:
    arny23394 said:
    What’s so funny @kentaddick - those stats are truly abysmal. Saying he was extremely underrated is as laughable as the comment in this thread that said we lost the first test because Jack Leach didn’t play.
    welcome to every england player to have played in the late 90s. 

    You don't play 53 test matches without being a very handy player. Hussain and Vaughan obviously rated him. As i said, underrated - stats dont tell the full story.
    Gough, Caddick, Flintoff and Cork disagree with you. He played that many tests because there were no viable alternatives. He did a job, but in no circumstances was he ‘extremely underrated’.
    exactly, he wasn't abysmal at all. You think he was abysmal, I'm saying you're underrating him as he was a useful player - tied up one end and was handy with the bat at number 8.
  • And i'm not going to get into an argument with some one claiming the late 90s england side were anything but terrible lol
  • Sponsored links:


  • Michael Atherton sums up below my thoughts on the match. Cummins faced much criticism for going so defensive early on but the one thing he didn't want to do was to concede boundary after boundary on a track that offered nothing for the bowlers. What did Stokes do at the end of the game? Exactly the same thing - no slips and a refusal to take the new ball when it was due. There are many ways to skin a cat. Ours was bold. A gamble. The Aussies were far more pragmatic. The counter punchers won. 

    The race is not always to the swift but on this occasion the battle was to the strong. Pat Cummins conceded a boundary off the first ball of the game, but concluded the match with one off his own bat, showing great nerve and bottle under pressure. There was heavy scrutiny of his captaincy, in response to “Bazball”, and it is not always easy to stick to your principles in that situation, but Cummins did so and will feel vindicated by the final result. Tortoise 1, Hare 0; an over-simplification, but it points to the contrasting philosophies. Cummins was prepared to bury his ego and not allow his team to get blown off course, sticking to a tried and trusted method. His character shone through at the end. 
  • Of the 05 fast bowlers, only simon jones finished his career with a test average in the 20s - are we really saying hoggard, harmison and flintoff are worse bowlers than gough and caddick? I rate that 05 pace bowling attack as the best we've produced... A man can dream of Anderson, broad, archer and wood lining up together
  • That  2009 - 2013 England team win the 2005 Ashes by 3 tests at least. Strength everywhere and not a Joe Root in sight yet 

    What you have to remember in 2005 it was a series that was very winnable but so much had to go in our favour and we had to look some very impressive characters in the eye and say "fuck you". With figures like Vaughan, Trescothick, Strauss, Flintoff, Pietersen, Jones and Harmison we could. And then Trott seamlessly dropping in to help along with Collingwood we had an abundance of character and things like the Gary Pratt run out, Brett Lee edging (stop it @DaveMehmet ) McGrath hurting himself in the warm up, and some other stuff I've forgotten. Anyway, that team and that series laid so many important foundations. Also the game hadn't been quite so affected by the advent of T20, in terms of fielding and batsmen charging down the pitch to hit people like Warne and McGrath for 6 
  • And i'm not going to get into an argument with some one claiming the late 90s england side were anything but terrible lol
    I never said he was abysmal, I said his stats are. I also never commented on the late 90s England side. Oddball.


  • The Aussies have really got their knickers in a twist about Robinson haven't they?

    I don't think celebrating in the face of a guy who has knocked your team around for 140 is the brightest idea, but still harmless really, not worth going on and on about.
  • Yep, true, Broad is usually pretty funny with the way he winds them up at least.


  • The Aussies have really got their knickers in a twist about Robinson haven't they?

    I don't think celebrating in the face of a guy who has knocked your team around for 140 is the brightest idea, but still harmless really, not worth going on and on about.
    He didn't just do that though. Prior to the Series he said that England would give Australia "a good hiding". He said that Australia have three number 11s. He told Khawaja to "fuck off" and called him a "fucking prick" after he scored a ton against us. Root showed a bit more class by coming over and congratulating Khawaja. Robinson had the cheek afterwards to suggest that this was "professional cricket" and that's what happens at that level. If anyone seriously thinks that Robinson did not dish out such verbals in club cricket they are living in cloud cuckoo land. And his example is now being followed in kids cricket too. That is why clubs struggle to get Umpires. 

    The clip above is tongue in cheek though. Australians know that they set a very bad example as evidenced by the fact that my son was called a "pommie cunt" each and every time he went out to bat out there. In the end, he took it as a term of endearment. It's not that they are concerned what Robinson said. The Aussies are just pointing out that if you are going to "talk the talk" then you have to "walk the walk". All Robinson has done is set him and the team up for a fall. The opposition deliberately never used to try to sledge the likes of Tendulkar and Lara because they knew that all it would do is make those players even more determined not to give their wicket up and Khawaja replied in exactly that way with the bat in the second innings by setting up their victory. It's now up to Robinson to prove that he can "walk the walk". 

     
  • Totally, I was watching and paying attention to what Robinson was up to and it struck me as odd that someone who hasn't done anything in the game could be so chopsy. 

    My return to club cricket a few years ago, I noticed that the sledging had not just gone up a notch but it was outright provocative. I won't profess to be a decent batsmen having rapidly worked my way from opener as a kid to any number of 9,10 or 11 now as a preference. Anyway, first game back, plays a friendly against a team.of a similar standard from rural Maidstone. I come out at, I think, 7 and immediately start getting a load from their fat fucker of a wicket keeper and their slip fielders. Now I'm not Turkish, Spanish, Mexican, Greek, Iraqi or any other of the things they called me so I'm not sure I can cry racial abuse but I was greeted to "the wop tail is not gonna wag today". Just loud enough for me to hear but quiet enough that I needed to process what was said. I laughed at that but every fucking ball, I was getting asked when I was going to open my kebab shop, how's my mate Saddam and then after I had hung around too long. "You're fucking shit" and it escalated to the point action had to be taken. Bear in mind I had said nothing in return, mainly because I've never been witty enough to get involved but also because I think people who give it large are usually shithouses who will melt in a more serious situation. Anyway, I turned round to the wicket keeper, I'd love to say after clipping their danger man away for 4 but in reality probably after a delivery sailed over my head, looked him square in the eye and quietly said "say something you fat c*nt". 

    And the squidgy, little bigot grassed me up to the umpire, my captain got involved, things got brave and before I knew it, an actual punch up broke out AT CRICKET! I got to hit the youngest of the slip fielders a few times and managed to kick the wicket keeper up the arse. Game called off. 

    Whenever I play now (haven't played for ages) there are always the younger players giving it large but they aren't throwing out zingers like those we all read about, this is some choirboy voiced, spotty, red faced 16 year old spin bowler just calling me shit. No chat, no two and fro and they always cry to the officials whenever I've made it clear I'm not interested but I don't know when it started to escalate and cease to be funny. 

    For the record most of the time my response was the timeless. "Shut your mouth virgin or I'll plough your mum again" 
  • And that is the problem. It's all very well bowlers dishing it out but what happens when the batsman responds? Does he wave his bat at the bowler each and every time he hits a boundary? If you allow if for one then surely you allow it for the other? Where does it stop?




  • Sponsored links:


  • And that is the problem. It's all very well bowlers dishing it out but what happens when the batsman responds? Does he wave his bat at the bowler each and every time he hits a boundary? If you allow if for one then surely you allow it for the other? Where does it stop?




    That's the thing with the chatter I've never got. When people talk on a football pitch it'd would make me laugh "do that again and I'll break your leg" type stuff. I mean where do you go with that? It never got to me, got in my head or affected me beyond making me laugh. Someone tried to patronisingly explain to me it was to get in your head, you react, you get sent off. Which I also thought was mental, some penis, local wannabe hard man chatting on a football pitch is the polar opposite of intimidating and at that level, me flattening them is not them winning or getting the upper hand. 

    The test between India and Australia a few years ago when Kohli and Smith or Warner were really going at it, to be fair could have been anyone of 7 in that Australia side, it just seemed to me to be a colossal waste of energy. 

    That said, if someone is genuinely witty and has a good observant funny bone, then chat away. Some man at 5 a side told our stand in keeper "shut up Su-bo" years ago and it still makes me laugh now thinking about it, and the poor sod still gets called subo
  • Not all our players are happy about the pitch that we requested to be provided. Australia bowled 144.2 overs (78 and 66.2) whereas we bowled 207.3 overs (116.1 and 99.2) - that's an extra 63.1 overs (or 44%).  Jimmy Anderson, our greatest ever fast bowler, for one isn't. We can't be bowling that many more overs and spending all that extra time in the field in every Test given the short proximity between them without it having some ramifications. The problem is that we are going to struggle to prepare a wicket that is going to deteriorate because they have a world class spinner whereas we are struggling to find someone who can actually spin a ball:

    “I’ve tried over the years to hone my skills so I can bowl in any conditions but everything I tried made no difference. I felt like I was fighting an uphill battle," Anderson wrote.

    “There was a bit of rustiness but I gave it everything I could. Having played for a long time, I realise you can’t take wickets every game.

    "Sometimes it is not your week. It felt like that for me. It’s a long series and hopefully I can contribute at some point, but if all the pitches are like that I’m done in the Ashes series.”

  • Not all our players are happy about the pitch that we requested to be provided. Australia bowled 144.2 overs (78 and 66.2) whereas we bowled 207.3 overs (116.1 and 99.2) - that's an extra 63.1 overs (or 44%).  Jimmy Anderson, our greatest ever fast bowler, for one isn't. We can't be bowling that many more overs and spending all that extra time in the field in every Test given the short proximity between them without it having some ramifications. The problem is that we are going to struggle to prepare a wicket that is going to deteriorate because they have a world class spinner whereas we are struggling to find someone who can actually spin a ball:

    “I’ve tried over the years to hone my skills so I can bowl in any conditions but everything I tried made no difference. I felt like I was fighting an uphill battle," Anderson wrote.

    “There was a bit of rustiness but I gave it everything I could. Having played for a long time, I realise you can’t take wickets every game.

    "Sometimes it is not your week. It felt like that for me. It’s a long series and hopefully I can contribute at some point, but if all the pitches are like that I’m done in the Ashes series.”

    The Aussies bowled fewer overs because we basically scored the same number of runs as their batsmen, but in less time.

    That's a downside of Bazball. By scoring faster, we're taking less energy out of their bowlers' legs than if we batted slower.
  • Not all our players are happy about the pitch that we requested to be provided. Australia bowled 144.2 overs (78 and 66.2) whereas we bowled 207.3 overs (116.1 and 99.2) - that's an extra 63.1 overs (or 44%).  Jimmy Anderson, our greatest ever fast bowler, for one isn't. We can't be bowling that many more overs and spending all that extra time in the field in every Test given the short proximity between them without it having some ramifications. The problem is that we are going to struggle to prepare a wicket that is going to deteriorate because they have a world class spinner whereas we are struggling to find someone who can actually spin a ball:

    “I’ve tried over the years to hone my skills so I can bowl in any conditions but everything I tried made no difference. I felt like I was fighting an uphill battle," Anderson wrote.

    “There was a bit of rustiness but I gave it everything I could. Having played for a long time, I realise you can’t take wickets every game.

    "Sometimes it is not your week. It felt like that for me. It’s a long series and hopefully I can contribute at some point, but if all the pitches are like that I’m done in the Ashes series.”

    The Aussies bowled fewer overs because we basically scored the same number of runs as their batsmen, but in less time.

    That's a downside of Bazball. By scoring faster, we're taking less energy out of their bowlers' legs than if we batted slower.
    On the flip side of that. You give the bowlers less rest between their 2 bowling innings
  • Sorry to change subject slightly, but cant see another thread for it, hells bells that T20 game last night between Middlesex & Surrey.  That was a great watch...

    Anyhow, back to proper cricket!
  • Not all our players are happy about the pitch that we requested to be provided. Australia bowled 144.2 overs (78 and 66.2) whereas we bowled 207.3 overs (116.1 and 99.2) - that's an extra 63.1 overs (or 44%).  Jimmy Anderson, our greatest ever fast bowler, for one isn't. We can't be bowling that many more overs and spending all that extra time in the field in every Test given the short proximity between them without it having some ramifications. The problem is that we are going to struggle to prepare a wicket that is going to deteriorate because they have a world class spinner whereas we are struggling to find someone who can actually spin a ball:

    “I’ve tried over the years to hone my skills so I can bowl in any conditions but everything I tried made no difference. I felt like I was fighting an uphill battle," Anderson wrote.

    “There was a bit of rustiness but I gave it everything I could. Having played for a long time, I realise you can’t take wickets every game.

    "Sometimes it is not your week. It felt like that for me. It’s a long series and hopefully I can contribute at some point, but if all the pitches are like that I’m done in the Ashes series.”

    The Aussies bowled fewer overs because we basically scored the same number of runs as their batsmen, but in less time.

    That's a downside of Bazball. By scoring faster, we're taking less energy out of their bowlers' legs than if we batted slower.
    Indeed. I made that point early in the Test about Bazball - we are allowing the Aussies to bat at their pace AND making our bowlers bowl for longer periods. And Anderson clearly isn't happy about that happening on dead tracks. The point about the early negative fields that the Aussies set is that they quickly established that the deck was doing nothing and they didn't want to be going at 6 an over, meaning that England would produce a bigger first innings total and in quicker time too. The irony is, as I've said, that we ended up doing exactly that in the final couple of sessions with sweepers and short balls galore and couldn't even take the new ball or have an attacking field because the Aussies only needed 3 an over to win the Test. 

    So, unless we do things slightly differently (and by that I mean bat longer and set a bigger first innings total) I don't see how things are going to change on the placid pitches we are looking to produce. They scored almost 700 runs in the Test and their two best batsmen got less than 50 between them. They won't be doing that for the rest of the season on dead decks.  
  • JohnBoyUK said:
    Sorry to change subject slightly, but cant see another thread for it, hells bells that T20 game last night between Middlesex & Surrey.  That was a great watch...

    Anyhow, back to proper cricket!
    We are all over it on the Kent thread. Canters has gone into hiding and Blackpool is leaning towards becoming a Kent supporter as a result. Did you know though that Surrey set a new record? The highest number of runs ever set by a losing team in The Blast and in fact the second highest in the history of T20. And they achieved it against a team that had lost all 10 of their Blast matches this season. They should change their name to the Surrey Trendbreakers!
  • Broad made similar.comments to Anderson during the Test too.

    I know the weather can't be helped etc but I'd rather have greener wickets, play to out strengths with Anderson, Broad, Woakes if he plays.
  • JohnBoyUK said:
    Sorry to change subject slightly, but cant see another thread for it, hells bells that T20 game last night between Middlesex & Surrey.  That was a great watch...

    Anyhow, back to proper cricket!
    The Surrey, Essex and Sussex supporters aren't able to keep their own threads going, so it all gravitates to the Kent one  :D
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!