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Thames Water bill query/help please

meldrew66meldrew66
edited March 2023 in Not Sports Related
Is £79pm for unmetered water bills excessive? Is a home ‘rateable value’ of 279 normal?

I live in a residential 3 bed semi in Orpington and pay my (unmetered) Thames Water bill monthly by direct debit. I’ve just had through notice that my monthly charge is increasing from £71pm to £79pm from April, As it felt high, I checked with my neighbour who lives in an identically sized house (also unmetered) and he says he’s paying £40-ish. When I spoke to Thames Water they confirmed we are on their standard rates and that it’s based on the ‘rateable value’ set by the government for my house. Apparently RVs have been unchanged for decades. Looking at my water bill, my RV is 279.

So, I’ve hit a brick wall trying to get clarity around my RV. I can’t find any way of identifying if that RV is correct for a 3 bed residential semi-detached house in BR6. It seems that the government’s ‘Valuation Office’ set RVs decades ago based on rental value and that they are no longer reviewed. Further investigation into who I might contact to query mine suggests that the government office only deal with business rates so they won’t be interested talking to me about my residential RV.

Any advice please based on your own experiences? Can you share what your own RVs are for your residential, 3-bed residential semi-detached property please?

If my RV is wrong and my water bills should be the same as my neighbour, it would appear that I have overpaid by something like £6,000 since we bought the house in 2004. Not insignificant! For what it’s worth, I am (reluctantly) having a water meter installed at some point this year so we will end up paying for what we use anyway, but, of course, the issue of potentially massively overpaying through no fault of mine or Thames Water does need addressing and, hopefully, resolving financially. Hope you can help!
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Comments

  • valleynick66valleynick66
    meldrew66 said:
    Is £79pm for unmetered water bills excessive? Is a home ‘rateable value’ of 279 normal?

    I live in a residential 3 bed semi in Orpington and pay my (unmetered) Thames Water bill monthly by direct debit. I’ve just had through notice that my monthly charge is increasing from £71pm to £79pm from April, As it felt high, I checked with my neighbour who lives in an identically sized house (also unmetered) and he says he’s paying £40-ish. When I spoke to Thames Water they confirmed we are on their standard rates and that it’s based on the ‘rateable value’ set by the government for my house. Apparently RVs have been unchanged for decades. Looking at my water bill, my RV is 279.

    So, I’ve hit a brick wall trying to get clarity around my RV. I can’t find any way of identifying if that RV is correct for a 3 bed residential semi-detached house in BR6. It seems that the government’s ‘Valuation Office’ set RVs decades ago based on rental value and that they are no longer reviewed. Further investigation into who I might contact to query mine suggests that the government office only deal with business rates so they won’t be interested talking to me about my residential RV.

    Any advice please based on your own experiences? Can you share what your own RVs are for your residential, 3-bed residential semi-detached property please?

    If my RV is wrong and my water bills should be the same as my neighbour, it would appear that I have overpaid by something like £6,000 since we bought the house in 2004. Not insignificant! For what it’s worth, I am (reluctantly) having a water meter installed at some point this year so we will end up paying for what we use anyway, but, of course, the issue of potentially massively overpaying through no fault of mine or Thames Water does need addressing and, hopefully, resolving financially. Hope you can help!
    Switch to metered?
  • meldrew66meldrew66
    As stated, I am, but that’s not the point here.
  • meldrew66meldrew66
    edited March 2023
    Looks like I’m stuffed as, seemingly, incorrect property rateable values cannot be appealed against - even if blatantly wrong! (See point 3)

    https://www.unitedutilities.com/my-account/your-bill/rateable-value-explained/
  • blackpool72blackpool72
    I also live in a 3 bed semi in BR6.

    £73.11 per month  .
  • SE9toDA2SE9toDA2
    If your neighbour is living alone they might be getting a discount
  • valleynick66valleynick66
    meldrew66 said:
    As stated, I am, but that’s not the point here.
    Yes sorry didn’t properly read your last paragraph. 

    Is your neighbour definitely not metered ? I ask as the push to watered meters goes back a good few years now. I personally wasn’t aware of any discount that would otherwise distinguish 2 comparable properties. Having said that my council tax banding is higher than neighbours comparable property but I had no joy asking formally for it to be reassessed. 

    I’m not sure why you are reluctant to have a meter - very little downside. 
  • seth plumseth plum
    A water meter charges you for use rather than guesswork.
    Much more reason to get a water meter than the endlessly pushed spy smart meters from the energy companies.
  • meldrew66meldrew66
    valleynick66 said:
    meldrew66 said:
    As stated, I am, but that’s not the point here.
    Yes sorry didn’t properly read your last paragraph. 

    Is your neighbour definitely not metered ? I ask as the push to watered meters goes back a good few years now. I personally wasn’t aware of any discount that would otherwise distinguish 2 comparable properties. Having said that my council tax banding is higher than neighbours comparable property but I had no joy asking formally for it to be reassessed. 

    I’m not sure why you are reluctant to have a meter - very little downside. 
    …..I just like keeping my nice garden/lawn watered, that’s the only reason I felt that a meter would be problematic.
  • valleynick66valleynick66
    seth plum said:
    A water meter charges you for use rather than guesswork.
    Much more reason to get a water meter than the endlessly pushed spy smart meters from the energy companies.
    Eh! It’s exactly the same thing. Pay for what you use only. 
  • seth plumseth plum
    valleynick66 said:
    seth plum said:
    A water meter charges you for use rather than guesswork.
    Much more reason to get a water meter than the endlessly pushed spy smart meters from the energy companies.
    Eh! It’s exactly the same thing. Pay for what you use only. 
    If you don’t have a water meter you don’t pay for what you use. Most times you pay much more based on Council tax or something.
    If you have a gas and electricity meter you can read the numbers, submit them, and only pay for what you use.
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  • charlton4evercharlton4ever
    edited March 2023
    My kids have all gone and just me and Mrs charlton4ever now, and I was worried I would still pay more with a water meter when they put one in our 3 bed semi - but we actually are at least £150 per year better off! Every little helps.  Another small victory is the £25 per year I also get off the bill as we have a soakaway. A lot of people miss this - have saved about £300 now, So if you have a soakaway for waste rain water get in touch with Thames Water and claim your rebate!! Meter is read automatically. 
  • Covered EndCovered End
    edited March 2023
    Anecdotally, if you have a water meter don't assume it is being read.
    My bill went up from £45pm to £65pm which I thought strange as there is one less person living in the house.

    I looked at the bill and it had been (over)estimated for the last 2 years, as they hadn't bothered to read the meter.
    So I went out to the pavement with a crow bar, lifted the cover and read the meter myself.

    My payments are now £40pm for 3 of us, but I stopped watering the garden years ago, when it was apparent we had a water shortage in the London area most summers. I bought a couple of water butts.
  • valleynick66valleynick66
    seth plum said:
    valleynick66 said:
    seth plum said:
    A water meter charges you for use rather than guesswork.
    Much more reason to get a water meter than the endlessly pushed spy smart meters from the energy companies.
    Eh! It’s exactly the same thing. Pay for what you use only. 
    If you don’t have a water meter you don’t pay for what you use. Most times you pay much more based on Council tax or something.
    If you have a gas and electricity meter you can read the numbers, submit them, and only pay for what you use.
    The point being the meter means you pay based on usage in both. There has never been an option to pay for energy based on rateable value or similar. 
  • MrOneLungMrOneLung
    Read once if there are more people then bedrooms then dont change to a meter. If less people then bedrooms then usually the meter is best. 

    Don’t forget once on the meter you can’t change back 
  • addixaddix
    Until recently we were on RV at £79/month too for 4 bed terrace in BR3.  Although we had a meter fitted, they were still charging us the RV rate for our water. 

    It wasn't until we spoke to a few neighbours that we realised our bill was so much higher than their £19-£28/m that we queried it with TW, even getting a guy out to check if we had a leak.

    We ended up with a credit on one month's bill of £2,300 which was meant to be refunded to our bank account.  About £1,100 was returned but it took multiple phone calls over 9 months or so to get an explanation as to where the rest went to.  It turned out they refunded the full £79/m for the overcharge period which showed on our bill, but didn't show the subsequent guesstimate of the correct metered rate - now a more reasonable £34/m for two of us with a big pond, allotment and chickens.

    TW are useless and it's a shame you can't switch water suppliers.
  • ArkwrightArkwright
    Good luck with all that - TW are completely useless as is the complaints system when you get fed up with them. We have a water meter - it is better to have than not - much more likely to pay less with one however…..we are paying £147 per month on our direct debit at the moment- or as TW like to think of it - 2.5 million cups of tea a year -  there are now only two of us here so we are either in the toilet all the time or we have a leak….well it was a leak which was eventually fixed after a number of visits by random TW associated engineers. It turns out that we didn’t notice the leak for six months - it was under a flower bed - because instead of reading the meter, TW couldn’t be bothered to come and read it and estimated a bill on pre leak usage. I finally managed to get them to “refund” everything- near £1000 but it’s not real cash, it’s credit on the bill and they are still taking £147 from my DD. Our monthly payment should be nearer £47. Unless I get the cash - even if they reduce my direct debit to £1 a month it’ll take about five years to get back to normal…
  • Raith_C_ChattonellRaith_C_Chattonell

  • Covered EndCovered End
    Arkwright, e mail their CEO https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-9576 and ask for an immediate refund & threaten to contact ccwaterhttp://www.ccwater.org.uk/ if they don't refund.
  • PragueAddickPragueAddick
    Raith_C_Chattonell said:

    Sarah Bentley...
    I heard her on Radio 4 Today last week. Her defence of their record sounded like she was actually a chatbot under the control of Charlie Methven.
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  • rananegrarananegra
    We got forced to have a meter. We're paying slightly more because there are 3 adults and a teenager in the house and everyone washes. The calculations based on rateable value are fairly straightforward I may be able to find them if you're interested. 

    The database I work on had a 5 bed property in BR6 which had a rateable value of £384 so yours sounds about right. 

    If I had any power over govt, Thames Water would be fined enormous amounts every time they discharge sewage into rivers. Unfortunately the govt want to make it easier for them to do so by removing any reporting obligations (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/633609)
  • cliveclive

  • KingKinsellaKingKinsella
    Money Saving Expert-Martyn Lewis- didn't he bang on about different rateable values of properties a few years ago? He seemed to say that they could be changed, unless the "door has been shut".
    I have a meter but I'm puzzled why TW have set a direct debit for a fixed amount. I am similar the the original post 3 bed semi near orpington and my new rate is £86/month. All last year they were telling me that I would pay less than the average consumer- seemed to be based on new meter readings. So I looked at their super-duper personnal account and I could get monthly readings for 2/3 years ago(? before the meter was  installed) but not the last year(when the meter was installed but not being used for billing).

  • RobRob
    seth plum said:
    valleynick66 said:
    seth plum said:
    A water meter charges you for use rather than guesswork.
    Much more reason to get a water meter than the endlessly pushed spy smart meters from the energy companies.
    Eh! It’s exactly the same thing. Pay for what you use only. 
    If you don’t have a water meter you don’t pay for what you use. Most times you pay much more based on Council tax or something.
    If you have a gas and electricity meter you can read the numbers, submit them, and only pay for what you use.
    Yes, but having a Smart Meter eliminates the need to manually read the numbers and submit them, and you only pay for what you use. 
  • Covered EndCovered End
    KingKinsella said:
    Money Saving Expert-Martyn Lewis- didn't he bang on about different rateable values of properties a few years ago? He seemed to say that they could be changed, unless the "door has been shut".
    I have a meter but I'm puzzled why TW have set a direct debit for a fixed amount. I am similar the the original post 3 bed semi near orpington and my new rate is £86/month. All last year they were telling me that I would pay less than the average consumer- seemed to be based on new meter readings. So I looked at their super-duper personnal account and I could get monthly readings for 2/3 years ago(? before the meter was  installed) but not the last year(when the meter was installed but not being used for billing).

    See my post above if you have a meter.
    Check your bill and see if they are (over)estimating your bill and not reading your meter.
    I read my meter, as they hadn't for 2 years and my payments went down from £65pm to £40pm.
  • WSSWSS
    edited March 2023
    I must be getting (worringly) severely undercharged. I only pay £17pm for a a 4-bed semi with them. Been the case since I moved here Oct ‘21 and am on a meter.

    Got a new bill in Feb and was £56 in credit!
  • Covered EndCovered End
    WSS said:
    I must be getting (worringly) severely undercharged. I only pay £17pm for a a 4-bed semi with them. Been the case since I moved here Oct ‘21 and am on a meter.

    Got a new bill in Feb and was £56 in credit!
    They can't touch you after 6 years. 
    Limitations Act. 
  • cafcfan1990cafcfan1990
    Covered End said:
    WSS said:
    I must be getting (worringly) severely undercharged. I only pay £17pm for a a 4-bed semi with them. Been the case since I moved here Oct ‘21 and am on a meter.

    Got a new bill in Feb and was £56 in credit!
    They can't touch you after 6 years. 
    Limitations Act. 
    It's not 6 years from the move in date though, it's 6 years from when the debt becomes enforceable. 
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