What’s been a hangover for me from my formative Catholic upbringing years, is, regardless of how young, if you missed Sunday Mass it’s a mortal sin and if you should die before making a confession, you’ll burn 🔥 in hell for eternity.
What sort of teaching is that likely to have on young impressionable and sensitive minds?
Why do people have so much hate for Christianity but shy away when it comes to criticising Islam/Judaism/Sikhism/Buddhism/Hinduism etc?
Edited: Don't answer that. Not really sure I want an argument of that scale.
It can all get in the bin.
I have 3 muslims in my team and they're currently abiding by Ramadan. They're all tired, lack motivation and productivity is down. I can't (and wouldnt) discriminate against them, so i just suck it up and work harder myself. Its mental to me.
Lol.
I've asked Muslims how Ramadan works if you're in the north of Norway or Sweden in summer where the sun doesn't set.
Try that out. The replies will make you smile.
Go on then.....
Do you mean ask them myself? I lived in Indonesia for over a year and I asked many people. I would often politely challenge them on their religion. The standard reply was that you'd have to make an exception and Allah would understand. It made me smile because people who believe in such demands from their god will always justify not satisfying them by saying that there are exceptions. They won't ever consider that the rule itself is daft, and that a loving god who created the world would have thought of such problems and therefore not make such absurd rules and demands in the first place.
What’s been a hangover for me from my formative Catholic upbringing years, is, regardless of how young, if you missed Sunday Mass it’s a mortal sin and if you should die before making a confession, you’ll burn 🔥 in hell for eternity.
What sort of teaching is that likely to have on young impressionable and sensitive minds?
Could think of worse things that a lot of children suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church.
Why do people have so much hate for Christianity but shy away when it comes to criticising Islam/Judaism/Sikhism/Buddhism/Hinduism etc?
Edited: Don't answer that. Not really sure I want an argument of that scale.
It can all get in the bin.
I have 3 muslims in my team and they're currently abiding by Ramadan. They're all tired, lack motivation and productivity is down. I can't (and wouldnt) discriminate against them, so i just suck it up and work harder myself. Its mental to me.
Lol.
I've asked Muslims how Ramadan works if you're in the north of Norway or Sweden in summer where the sun doesn't set.
Try that out. The replies will make you smile.
Go on then.....
Do you mean ask them myself? I lived in Indonesia for over a year and I asked many people. I would often politely challenge them on their religion. The standard reply was that you'd have to make an exception and Allah would understand. It made me smile because people who believe in such demands from their god will always justify not satisfying them by saying that there are exceptions. They won't ever consider that the rule itself is daft, and that a loving god who created the world would have thought of such problems and therefore not make such absurd rules and demands in the first place.
It’s just another case of telling people the rules are absolute when it suits them, because the books says so, but then ignoring a rule because it’s inconvenient, and simply declaring “God won’t mind”.
Why do people have so much hate for Christianity but shy away when it comes to criticising Islam/Judaism/Sikhism/Buddhism/Hinduism etc?
Edited: Don't answer that. Not really sure I want an argument of that scale.
It can all get in the bin.
I have 3 muslims in my team and they're currently abiding by Ramadan. They're all tired, lack motivation and productivity is down. I can't (and wouldnt) discriminate against them, so i just suck it up and work harder myself. Its mental to me.
Lol.
I've asked Muslims how Ramadan works if you're in the north of Norway or Sweden in summer where the sun doesn't set.
There are no good reasons to practice a faith : unless you want to be happier , more politically engaged , healthier and more civic minded ; apart from that ……..
There are no good reasons to practice a faith : unless you want to be happier , more politically engaged , healthier and more civic minded ; apart from that ……..
Not forgetting being able to display a "holier than thou" attitude at all times.
Personally I'm happy for people to believe what they want. Just dont ram it down my throat or expect me to believe fairy stories.
I had a work meeting last week where someone, a non-Muslim, was banging on about the "health benefits" of observing Ramadan. That's the health BENEFITS of not eating or drinking anything all day. Fair enough if you want to do it, but dont make shit up.
Anyway, I'm off now to eat some chocolate eggs to celebrate the life of the Easter Bunny, who died on a cross for our sins. Apparently.
I am curious to know if only committed Christians get married in a church? Do people want church weddings because they’re in some way cinematic, or because they believe in the Christian version of God? ‘We are gathered here in the sight of God’ etc etc. If anybody disparages religion yet has a Church wedding (I did it for Grandads sake they might claim) they are surely a paradigm example of hypocrisy.
What strikes me as ludicrous is that you can have people of different faith on the same team and it seems as if when the game is going well for that team that competing gods are literally and figuratively on the same team. Yet at the same time players from opposing teams can have the same god and that god is using his/her will to place adherents on both sides of the match. And in so doing condemning themselves to disappointing at least one of its followers. The whole things a theological mess and if you ask me the gods should stay the fuck out of football.
What’s been a hangover for me from my formative Catholic upbringing years, is, regardless of how young, if you missed Sunday Mass it’s a mortal sin and if you should die before making a confession, you’ll burn 🔥 in hell for eternity.
What sort of teaching is that likely to have on young impressionable and sensitive minds?
Could think of worse things that a lot of children suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church.
Not sure there can be anything worse than burning in hell for eternity but I get where you're coming from @DaveMehmet and agree.
Why do people have so much hate for Christianity but shy away when it comes to criticising Islam/Judaism/Sikhism/Buddhism/Hinduism etc?
Edited: Don't answer that. Not really sure I want an argument of that scale.
It can all get in the bin.
I have 3 muslims in my team and they're currently abiding by Ramadan. They're all tired, lack motivation and productivity is down. I can't (and wouldnt) discriminate against them, so i just suck it up and work harder myself. Its mental to me.
Lol.
I've asked Muslims how Ramadan works if you're in the north of Norway or Sweden in summer where the sun doesn't set.
Try that out. The replies will make you smile.
Go on then.....
They use the sun rise and sun set times of Mecca.
In which case that should be the rule all over thus avoiding the fatigue and other problems it causes in countries of our latitude.
There are no good reasons to practice a faith : unless you want to be happier , more politically engaged , healthier and more civic minded ; apart from that ……..
Not forgetting being able to display a "holier than thou" attitude at all times.
Personally I'm happy for people to believe what they want. Just dont ram it down my throat or expect me to believe fairy stories.
I had a work meeting last week where someone, a non-Muslim, was banging on about the "health benefits" of observing Ramadan. That's the health BENEFITS of not eating or drinking anything all day. Fair enough if you want to do it, but dont make shit up.
Anyway, I'm off now to eat some chocolate eggs to celebrate the life of the Easter Bunny, who died on a cross for our sins. Apparently.
Did the Easter Bunny have the common decency to stay dead, though?
That Jesus character didn't. It's said it died for people's sins when, if all is to be believed, it gave up a weekend for people's sins.
There are certainly many folk who think the idea that we're just a lucky bunch of carbon atoms floating through the ether doesn't provide much meaning to life, and take solace, especially in tough times, from the idea that there is some point to it all. Also that lost loved ones are not forever lost. So if a footballer wants to remind themselves of that by thanking their relevant deity for watching over them, then can't see it does anyone any harm.
The hypocrisy of going on about religious people 'ramming it down your throat' whilst simultaneously insisting on a public forum that their beliefs are 'fairy stories' and belittling the Passion of Jesus Christ, for which there's plenty of actual evidence, smacks of lazy populism.
Not religious myself, but it feels wrong to knock very personal things down in such a clumsy way. As others have said, perhaps shift this to the HoC thread, or close it down.
And yes, apologies for coming across as such a sanctimonious dick!
There are certainly many folk who think the idea that we're just a lucky bunch of carbon atoms floating through the ether doesn't provide much meaning to life, and take solace, especially in tough times, from the idea that there is some point to it all. Also that lost loved ones are not forever lost. So if a footballer wants to remind themselves of that by thanking their relevant deity for watching over them, then can't see it does anyone any harm.
The hypocrisy of going on about religious people 'ramming it down your throat' whilst simultaneously insisting on a public forum that their beliefs are 'fairy stories' and belittling the Passion of Jesus Christ, for which there's plenty of actual evidence, smacks of lazy populism.
Not religious myself, but it feels wrong to knock very personal things down in such a clumsy way. As others have said, perhaps shift this to the HoC thread, or close it down.
And yes, apologies for coming across as such a sanctimonious dick!
Where do you stand on teaching children to be religious?
What's the actual evidence of a Jesus 'Christ'? or is it evidence that a person called Jesus lived and was born to an adulterous mother in a time where most people weren't educated and were easily manipulated by conmen who regaled tales of mysterious ways and destroyed most of it's predecessor (Paganism) for its own nefarious means?
As with everything, good, balanced education is critical. Religion at its best teaches morals and shows lessons from the past about what happens when we're too extreme or entrenched. Then let the children make their own decision.
Not going to go down a Jesus rabbit-hole, just called for a bit less dismissive rhetoric.
As with everything, good, balanced education is critical. Religion at its best teaches morals and shows lessons from the past about what happens when we're too extreme or entrenched. Then let the children make their own decision.
Not going to go down a Jesus rabbit-hole, just called for a bit less dismissive rhetoric.
Religion also actively promotes slavery, brutality, misogyny, torture, rape and a whole host of other horrific things that religious people choose to ignore.
Religion is there to be ridiculed, mocked, questioned, dismissed and pulled apart by critical thought. If it can't stand up to those rigours (and it doesn't), then it doesn't deserve to be respected and/or believed.
That's my sermon for the morning. I'm now off to beat my slaves and hope they don't die within a day or two as I'll be forgiven.
Why do people have so much hate for Christianity but shy away when it comes to criticising Islam/Judaism/Sikhism/Buddhism/Hinduism etc?
Edited: Don't answer that. Not really sure I want an argument of that scale.
It can all get in the bin.
I have 3 muslims in my team and they're currently abiding by Ramadan. They're all tired, lack motivation and productivity is down. I can't (and wouldnt) discriminate against them, so i just suck it up and work harder myself. Its mental to me.
Lol.
I've asked Muslims how Ramadan works if you're in the north of Norway or Sweden in summer where the sun doesn't set.
Try that out. The replies will make you smile.
God: "I know Im all omnipotent and omnipresent and shit, but could you do me a favour and not eat for a bit. Im really into that. Cheers!"
"The invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
As with everything, good, balanced education is critical. Religion at its best teaches morals and shows lessons from the past about what happens when we're too extreme or entrenched. Then let the children make their own decision.
Not going to go down a Jesus rabbit-hole, just called for a bit less dismissive rhetoric.
Religion also actively promotes slavery, brutality, misogyny, torture, rape and a whole host of other horrific things that religious people choose to ignore.
Religion is there to be ridiculed, mocked, questioned, dismissed and pulled apart by critical thought. If it can't stand up to those rigours (and it doesn't), then it doesn't deserve to be respected and/or believed.
That's my sermon for the morning. I'm now off to beat my slaves and hope they don't die within a day or two as I'll be forgiven.
So you agree with me on the education piece, then... can't see how you can have critical thought without education. Strange, I'm not a religious person, but have been to church many times and haven't heard any promotion of any of those things. In fact, I've heard plenty of preaching against those things in favour of compassion, respect, equality and love. I don't think anyone in their right minds could argue that religious fundamentalism and extremism hasn't actively promoted many of those ills you've listed, but it's like arguing that football has actively promoted violence, tribalism, arson, hatred, racism, misogyny, and worse (if you listen to some terrace chanting). It's even started a war. Is that something wrong with football, or the people who choose to interpret it in that way?
As with everything, good, balanced education is critical. Religion at its best teaches morals and shows lessons from the past about what happens when we're too extreme or entrenched. Then let the children make their own decision.
Not going to go down a Jesus rabbit-hole, just called for a bit less dismissive rhetoric.
What religion tells you is that you can make a healthy living by lying to people. Controlling others through lies and fairy stories isn’t moral in any way. Telling them they'll go to hell for their sins but things will be OK if they repent isn’t anything moral, it's controlling people through fear and ignorance.
Being a decent human being because you've actively decided you want to do the right thing is the most profoundly moral thing you can do. Cajoling and coercing people to do what you consider to be the right thing, through an invented cast of deities, prophets, angels and demons is not moral. It is the exact opposite. Religion robs us of our morality.
As with everything, good, balanced education is critical. Religion at its best teaches morals and shows lessons from the past about what happens when we're too extreme or entrenched. Then let the children make their own decision.
Not going to go down a Jesus rabbit-hole, just called for a bit less dismissive rhetoric.
Religion also actively promotes slavery, brutality, misogyny, torture, rape and a whole host of other horrific things that religious people choose to ignore.
Religion is there to be ridiculed, mocked, questioned, dismissed and pulled apart by critical thought. If it can't stand up to those rigours (and it doesn't), then it doesn't deserve to be respected and/or believed.
That's my sermon for the morning. I'm now off to beat my slaves and hope they don't die within a day or two as I'll be forgiven.
So you agree with me on the education piece, then... can't see how you can have critical thought without education. Strange, I'm not a religious person, but have been to church many times and haven't heard any promotion of any of those things. In fact, I've heard plenty of preaching against those things in favour of compassion, respect, equality and love. I don't think anyone in their right minds could argue that religious fundamentalism and extremism hasn't actively promoted many of those ills you've listed, but it's like arguing that football has actively promoted violence, tribalism, arson, hatred, racism, misogyny, and worse (if you listen to some terrace chanting). It's even started a war. Is that something wrong with football, or the people who choose to interpret it in that way?
Of course I agree with education, yes. Where do you stand with teaching children to be religious? I've answered yours so you answer mine
You haven't heard the nasty stuff being preached at church? Well, knock me down with a feather...there's a surprise. It definitely exists in the Bible. Why do you think it's not preached to the masses and/or ignored?
I went to a religion based primary school and sat through many Eucharists, was made to participate in saying the Lords Prayer every morning in assembly, had weekly church visits and was also made to read the Bible.
Funnily enough it was reading the Bible (including all the stuff that religious types ignore and don't want you to read), applying critical thought and using the education I'd received that made me realise what a load of old wank it is.
Do you think that Adam and Eve were the first two humans on the planet? The Bible does. It's also a promoter of incest. Lovely stuff, if you're in to that kind of thing.
How do people figure out what the ‘right thing’ is? I am not saying any organised religion is how it is done, but beyond that how is it done?
There are evolutionary reasons for people to be nice to each other, and theres clear evidence of altruism in the animal kingdom. A quick google can give you some stuff to read about it:
Comments
I lived in Indonesia for over a year and I asked many people. I would often politely challenge them on their religion.
The standard reply was that you'd have to make an exception and Allah would understand. It made me smile because people who believe in such demands from their god will always justify not satisfying them by saying that there are exceptions.
They won't ever consider that the rule itself is daft, and that a loving god who created the world would have thought of such problems and therefore not make such absurd rules and demands in the first place.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/31/are-religious-people-happier-healthier-our-new-global-study-explores-this-question/
Oh …. And have better wellbeing and live longer. apart from that……
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/03/beyond-beliefs-religious-faith-happier-healthier-life
And of course be happier and cope with life’s ups and downs more .Apart from that …..
https://bigthink.com/thinking/religion-makes-you-happier/
Personally I'm happy for people to believe what they want. Just dont ram it down my throat or expect me to believe fairy stories.
I had a work meeting last week where someone, a non-Muslim, was banging on about the "health benefits" of observing Ramadan. That's the health BENEFITS of not eating or drinking anything all day. Fair enough if you want to do it, but dont make shit up.
Anyway, I'm off now to eat some chocolate eggs to celebrate the life of the Easter Bunny, who died on a cross for our sins. Apparently.
Do people want church weddings because they’re in some way cinematic, or because they believe in the Christian version of God?
‘We are gathered here in the sight of God’ etc etc.
If anybody disparages religion yet has a Church wedding (I did it for Grandads sake they might claim) they are surely a paradigm example of hypocrisy.
That Jesus character didn't. It's said it died for people's sins when, if all is to be believed, it gave up a weekend for people's sins.
The hypocrisy of going on about religious people 'ramming it down your throat' whilst simultaneously insisting on a public forum that their beliefs are 'fairy stories' and belittling the Passion of Jesus Christ, for which there's plenty of actual evidence, smacks of lazy populism.
Not religious myself, but it feels wrong to knock very personal things down in such a clumsy way. As others have said, perhaps shift this to the HoC thread, or close it down.
And yes, apologies for coming across as such a sanctimonious dick!
What's the actual evidence of a Jesus 'Christ'? or is it evidence that a person called Jesus lived and was born to an adulterous mother in a time where most people weren't educated and were easily manipulated by conmen who regaled tales of mysterious ways and destroyed most of it's predecessor (Paganism) for its own nefarious means?
Not going to go down a Jesus rabbit-hole, just called for a bit less dismissive rhetoric.
Religion is there to be ridiculed, mocked, questioned, dismissed and pulled apart by critical thought. If it can't stand up to those rigours (and it doesn't), then it doesn't deserve to be respected and/or believed.
That's my sermon for the morning. I'm now off to beat my slaves and hope they don't die within a day or two as I'll be forgiven.
"The invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
Day 3.
Strange, I'm not a religious person, but have been to church many times and haven't heard any promotion of any of those things. In fact, I've heard plenty of preaching against those things in favour of compassion, respect, equality and love. I don't think anyone in their right minds could argue that religious fundamentalism and extremism hasn't actively promoted many of those ills you've listed, but it's like arguing that football has actively promoted violence, tribalism, arson, hatred, racism, misogyny, and worse (if you listen to some terrace chanting). It's even started a war. Is that something wrong with football, or the people who choose to interpret it in that way?
Being a decent human being because you've actively decided you want to do the right thing is the most profoundly moral thing you can do. Cajoling and coercing people to do what you consider to be the right thing, through an invented cast of deities, prophets, angels and demons is not moral. It is the exact opposite. Religion robs us of our morality.
You haven't heard the nasty stuff being preached at church? Well, knock me down with a feather...there's a surprise. It definitely exists in the Bible. Why do you think it's not preached to the masses and/or ignored?
I went to a religion based primary school and sat through many Eucharists, was made to participate in saying the Lords Prayer every morning in assembly, had weekly church visits and was also made to read the Bible.
Funnily enough it was reading the Bible (including all the stuff that religious types ignore and don't want you to read), applying critical thought and using the education I'd received that made me realise what a load of old wank it is.
Do you think that Adam and Eve were the first two humans on the planet? The Bible does. It's also a promoter of incest. Lovely stuff, if you're in to that kind of thing.
I am not saying any organised religion is how it is done, but beyond that how is it done?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_morality
Or maybe the ‘right thing’ is about physical survival.