Was concerned when Dobson and Fraser went off relatively early in the second half. That gifted midfield possession to Burton. Otherwise a decent enough game in that we had some pretty decent moments. Burton’s game plan was to get it forward and hope for long throws and corners. Our defending from set pieces is a concern. Another free header for their goal and they repeated the move a few minutes later. Don’t know if anyone else agrees but their number 7, Joe Powell was superb I thought. A very good player who I’d love to get next year based on today’s performance.
Thought Innis was awful. Thought our wingers did very well as did Albie.
my major gripe was what was payne doing with that second tackle? he knew he was on a yellow then he does that shit. no excuse.
This is bait, right? I um I uh I guess I've taken it already. Damn
watch their second goal back then work out if its bait...
When the solid Egbo was substituted for the diminutive Kane we were vulnerable. Sure enough, the first corner they get they hammer it beyond the far post where tiny Kane was up against two (comparative) giants. Very poor organisation not to stick someone bigger there (Mitchell?).
5ft 11 Todd Kane came on for 5ft 11 Mandela Egbo lol
Did some in the North stand boo Payne off after his red card, sounded like it, not sure how he comes back from that.
There was booing but I couldn't deduce if it was for the decision to send him off or for Payne himself. I don't get why you'd applaud a player off who's just been carded twice for stupid fouls. He certainly wasn't hard done by.
Did some in the North stand boo Payne off after his red card, sounded like it, not sure how he comes back from that.
I couldn't work out if they were booing him or the decision. Definitely heard boos.
I'm going to try and balance some of the negativity to Payne from the forum tonight.. Can't defend the tackles etc and the ultimate card. But he does try to change games(Yes Ha !Ha! Did that today). I think I can say that for nearly every game he has got on the pitch with one exception. Tell me if I am wrong but I remember 2 positives in his short cameo 1.Powerful shot skimmed off the bar 2. Played a lovely defence splitting ball which put ?? through 1 on 1 with the keeper, about 2-3 yards too heavy. Maybe he is trying too hard, or is not good enough overall. But come on there were some good things there.
I thought at 2-0 we might see another Shrewsbury job, just needed another goal before HT, which happened but at the wrong end. After AMBs brainstorm we seemed to get more nervous and after the triple sub we looked more like a wobbling jelly than the pretty solid unit we saw in the first half. Overall, it was a bit like the season in miniature, some good moments, but the fault lines were never too far below the surface.
Good to see out a win with first XI subbed out by and large.
Harsh sending off for Payne.
Rak Sakyi immense, my favourite player unfortunately as he is a loanee.
Still can't warm to Bonne this time round, despite the goal: no aerial threat, unexceptional pace, uninspiring positioning, standard dribbling. I do hope he completes his "unfinished business".
Playing for pride now, with a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance of making the playoffs. Still, a win is ... a win.
Did some in the North stand boo Payne off after his red card, sounded like it, not sure how he comes back from that.
I couldn't work out if they were booing him or the decision. Definitely heard boos.
I'm going to try and balance some of the negativity to Payne from the forum tonight.. Can't defend the tackles etc and the ultimate card. But he does try to change games(Yes Ha !Ha! Did that today). I think I can say that for nearly every game he has got on the pitch with one exception. Tell me if I am wrong but I remember 2 positives in his short cameo 1.Powerful shot skimmed off the bar 2. Played a lovely defence splitting ball which put ?? through 1 on 1 with the keeper, about 2-3 yards too heavy. Maybe he is trying too hard, or is not good enough overall. But come on there were some good things there.
1. Don't think that was his shot, pretty sure it. was Morgan 2. Trying to claim an overhit pass as a positive is really a stretch!
Thought Innis was awful. Thought our wingers did very well as did Albie.
my major gripe was what was payne doing with that second tackle? he knew he was on a yellow then he does that shit. no excuse.
This is bait, right? I um I uh I guess I've taken it already. Damn
watch their second goal back then work out if its bait...
When the solid Egbo was substituted for the diminutive Kane we were vulnerable. Sure enough, the first corner they get they hammer it beyond the far post where tiny Kane was up against two (comparative) giants. Very poor organisation not to stick someone bigger there (Mitchell?).
5ft 11 Todd Kane came on for 5ft 11 Mandela Egbo lol
You must have been watching Payne and not Kane.
Kane us 5’11”? Really? Bloody hell. He looks smaller. He’s certainly a lot lighter than Egbo, and lacks the physicality to defend corners, on today’s showing. Still don’t think he’s 5’11”.
Thought Innis was awful. Thought our wingers did very well as did Albie.
my major gripe was what was payne doing with that second tackle? he knew he was on a yellow then he does that shit. no excuse.
This is bait, right? I um I uh I guess I've taken it already. Damn
watch their second goal back then work out if its bait...
When the solid Egbo was substituted for the diminutive Kane we were vulnerable. Sure enough, the first corner they get they hammer it beyond the far post where tiny Kane was up against two (comparative) giants. Very poor organisation not to stick someone bigger there (Mitchell?).
5ft 11 Todd Kane came on for 5ft 11 Mandela Egbo lol
You must have been watching Payne and not Kane.
Kane us 5’11”? Really? Bloody hell. He looks smaller. He’s certainly a lot lighter than Egbo, and lacks the physicality to defend corners, on today’s showing. Still don’t think he’s 5’11”.
All the stat pages report that he is 180cm (5ft 10.86 inches)
Did some in the North stand boo Payne off after his red card, sounded like it, not sure how he comes back from that.
I couldn't work out if they were booing him or the decision. Definitely heard boos.
I'm going to try and balance some of the negativity to Payne from the forum tonight.. Can't defend the tackles etc and the ultimate card. But he does try to change games(Yes Ha !Ha! Did that today). I think I can say that for nearly every game he has got on the pitch with one exception. Tell me if I am wrong but I remember 2 positives in his short cameo 1.Powerful shot skimmed off the bar 2. Played a lovely defence splitting ball which put ?? through 1 on 1 with the keeper, about 2-3 yards too heavy. Maybe he is trying too hard, or is not good enough overall. But come on there were some good things there.
1. Thought the shot was by Bonne. But it might have been Morgan.
2. It was a good pass, but the keeper was off his line quickly, and beat Campbell to the ball. I quite like Payne, but sadly he isn’t good enough if we want to improve our chances of promotion.
Thought Innis was awful. Thought our wingers did very well as did Albie.
my major gripe was what was payne doing with that second tackle? he knew he was on a yellow then he does that shit. no excuse.
This is bait, right? I um I uh I guess I've taken it already. Damn
watch their second goal back then work out if its bait...
When the solid Egbo was substituted for the diminutive Kane we were vulnerable. Sure enough, the first corner they get they hammer it beyond the far post where tiny Kane was up against two (comparative) giants. Very poor organisation not to stick someone bigger there (Mitchell?).
5ft 11 Todd Kane came on for 5ft 11 Mandela Egbo lol
You must have been watching Payne and not Kane.
Kane us 5’11”? Really? Bloody hell. He looks smaller. He’s certainly a lot lighter than Egbo, and lacks the physicality to defend corners, on today’s showing. Still don’t think he’s 5’11”.
All the stat pages report that he is 180cm (5ft 10.86 inches)
Thought not ;-) Does it have his and Egbo’s weights?
The subs made a difference for us, and not in a good way. Both Payne and Henry showed why they're not starting matches, while Kane's positioning was weird.
They also showed why they are of little use on the bench as well. Regretfully, they are just not good enough.
Watched on TV. We really need to sign Hector, the geezer is class and has brought some confidence to the defence. Those who say Innis was poor, must've been watching a different game to me. How I wish we could sign JRS on a perm for next season! Fraser is one of our best midfielders and we need to build around him and Dobbo. Bad mistake by AMB but he has saved us on many occasions, and we all make mistakes. Before Holden we would have lost that game, but he has added spirit to the club, long may he reign....with support from the owners!
Agree with most of this, but build a team around Fraser and you don't get promoted. Midfield is weak and Dobbo is my only starter out of the current crop. Fraser is ok, but inconsistent, and easily bullied. Upgrade him and Morgan and you have a top six midfield.
I don't think you get many better/more consistent creator/passers than Fraser at this level. Not to say he is outstandingly good but more that in League One you will have midfielders who are physically combative and scrappy and also midfielders who will try to make things happen but vulnerable to being bullied by the scrappers. Those that are both physical AND creative mostly go straight up to the Championship in short order.
Dobson, Fraser and A.N. Other would be a decent enough 3 next season with Payne and Kilkenny/McGrandles upgraded to cover alongside Morgan (as I doubt we'll be able to shift and replace 3 midfielders all with better).
Did some in the North stand boo Payne off after his red card, sounded like it, not sure how he comes back from that.
I couldn't work out if they were booing him or the decision. Definitely heard boos.
I'm going to try and balance some of the negativity to Payne from the forum tonight.. Can't defend the tackles etc and the ultimate card. But he does try to change games(Yes Ha !Ha! Did that today). I think I can say that for nearly every game he has got on the pitch with one exception. Tell me if I am wrong but I remember 2 positives in his short cameo 1.Powerful shot skimmed off the bar 2. Played a lovely defence splitting ball which put ?? through 1 on 1 with the keeper, about 2-3 yards too heavy. Maybe he is trying too hard, or is not good enough overall. But come on there were some good things there.
1. Thought the shot was by Bonne. But it might have been Morgan.
2. It was a good pass, but the keeper was off his line quickly, and beat Campbell to the ball. I quite like Payne, but sadly he isn’t good enough if we want to improve our chances of promotion.
JRS a class above - will be a travesty if he doesn’t win POTY. The lad has his own goal of the season competition going on.
Friend of mine who is a goalie blamed Hector for their first - blocking AMB so he couldn’t get any power/ momentum. But down to AMB imo. Still, he hasn’t made many mistakes and it didn’t lose us points in the end. And I love Big Hec.
Payne is and always has been L2. Puts himself about but that’s it.
Yes I thought when we made triple sub ‘this lot are a bit small’. Understandable to take off Egbo as just back from injury and Dobbo who’d taken a hefty knock but didn’t understand Fraser going off. It resulted in complete switch of momentum to them.
Watching on stream it felt like we crawled over the line. Apart from a few good spells and lovely moves (nearly always involving JRS) we were pretty ropey. I hope DH has a ruthless streak as we do need a fairly substantial overhaul.
Oh and after Charlton fan lino Con’s antics in sticking up for the men in the middle, I’m hoping we can expect more refs like today’s.
Innis had a comparatively good game by his own admittedly low standards. Has a habit of marking fresh air at set pieces as in Burton’s 2nd goal
This is what I mean. What low standards? Under Holden he's been good. I cannot stand it when large elements of our support refuse to see what's in front of them - when a player is playing well, but has a reputation that can't be shifted
Feel sorry for Payne. He has been named in the team (or as sub) for every one of our games this year - even the PJT ones. Shame he won't get to keep his run going, particularly as I'm not sure the first tackle he got booked for was a foul.
I think you've just summed up why we've been so bad. The fact Payne has been involved in every game and still can't command a starting place despite the shite season we've had , kinda sums us up.
Unfortunately he offers very little.
We should never have signed him if we were serious about going up. As a result and because we’re a fairly tolerant bunch, we have discussions about how much of a shame it’s been for him or how he was under Garner versus Holden. It’s not just him. We’re still having the same debate about Inniss, Morgan, Terrell Thomas has come into the starting XI recently, yet this was a guy released by Crewe last season.
I think these players are hard working and try their best, it’s just that because we’ve been so poor, they get a look in, when in reality, I’m not sure who of Ipswich, Plymouth and Sheff Wed would even want them as squad players.
There are a couple of players we should keep for next season, but even the likes of Fraser has question marks above him. Aside from Leaburn, Dobson, JRS we can’t say for certain any of the rest have it in them.
Honest question, do you think the current first team, of which 8 or 9 have played most of the last half dozen games, would beat Ipswich or Sheffield Wednesday's reserve teams? If you do, surely they would have them as "back ups".
Take two or 3 of them out again and we would be losing to the likes of Fleetwood again.
Our "best 11" would probably finish about 8th, which obviously isn't good enough, our second 11 would get relegated by Christmas. You can improve from 8th to 4th and above with 4 or 5 players but not if the back ups are non league or league 2 at best standard, which they have been. Or kids playing out of position.
What we don't have is a Bannan, Yann, Cullen, Aribo type that is too good for the league. Maybe if Leaburn and JRS had started the season at Christmas we would have. We need to find 1 or 2.
Of the current crop, just JRS, Dobson and Leaburn are what I would consider the required quality. Possibly Hector and Egbo, but I haven’t seen enough of them and Hector has a bad record with injuries so we don’t know if we could rely on him week in, week out.
After that, CBT and Fraser aren’t good enough imo. Fraser is comfortable on the ball, but looks a little too comfortable in his attitude imo. CBT isn’t consistent enough, if he was a little sharper and had more of an end product, he wouldn’t be with us. I appreciate Wigan were rumoured to be in for him in the window, but he’s still a Charlton player. Then we have the likes of Morgan, Inniss, Clare. Morgan and Inniss have had 4 and 3 years here respectively. If we keep them, even if it’s as squad players, that’s not going to cut it. Clare is okay, but I don’t think I would miss him if he’s gone.
AMB, Ness, Mitchell, Campbell all may turn out to be good players, but it’s too early to say either way, imo. So for me, I think we’re quite far off still. I also think it’s important to factor in the time of year, the fact there’s nothing to play for and there’s no pressure and some of them like Inniss, Thomas, Morgan etc may be playing for a contract.
Holden coming in and performances since Garner has gone have improved, but it was a low bar and we still turn in some turd at times. Personally, I can’t see our best 11 now being an 8th placed team over the course of the season but we’ll never know. JRS has been the stand out player and has done well, but we already have to replace him next year. None of us knew how well Leaburn would do so that’s a bonus, but at the moment next season’s front 3 could be CBT, Leaburn & Campbell. Our midfield 3 is Dobson, Fraser plus one other, and we’ve got a back 4 of Egbo, Ness & maybe Hector.
It’s a big jump to make to get us ready for any sort of promotion push next season
Thought Innis was awful. Thought our wingers did very well as did Albie.
my major gripe was what was payne doing with that second tackle? he knew he was on a yellow then he does that shit. no excuse.
This is bait, right? I um I uh I guess I've taken it already. Damn
watch their second goal back then work out if its bait...
When the solid Egbo was substituted for the diminutive Kane we were vulnerable. Sure enough, the first corner they get they hammer it beyond the far post where tiny Kane was up against two (comparative) giants. Very poor organisation not to stick someone bigger there (Mitchell?).
Todd Kane is 5 foot 11 inches. I've no idea how he can accurately be described diminutive/minute/small/tiny?
Re the 2nd goal, Bonne & Inniss were close together marking a player each. The Burton player got away from Bonne, so Inniss went with that player and left his man free. It wasn't great defending by the two of them. But Bonne was the one who ended up marking no one. It was Payne (not Kane) who was "marking" the goal scorer, Payne falling/diving making himself about 4 foot tall. The ref could see the ball was clearly way over the line.
I've actually thought Bonne had been playing reasonably well in the last couple of games when he came on as a sub, as while he hasn't got the pace and dynamism of Leaburn, he's actually improved his link up play since his first spell with us, and now is a pretty good outlet. He's been winning a number of headers when the ball is lumped up to him.
Thus I was pleased for him when he got his goal and a good round of applause when he was subbed and made to walk around the pitch.
Innis had a comparatively good game by his own admittedly low standards. Has a habit of marking fresh air at set pieces as in Burton’s 2nd goal
This is what I mean. What low standards? Under Holden he's been good. I cannot stand it when large elements of our support refuse to see what's in front of them - when a player is playing well, but has a reputation that can't be shifted
By low standards I mean all the previous “mishaps”that have beset him. He is still making errors but not so many! Yes I agree with you that Holden has improved his game but in my eyes he’s still an accident waiting to happen. Yes he has cut out a lot of previous defensive errors thanks to keeping it simple. However he doesn’t read the game too well and his positioning/marking needs to be better. Innis is not my first choice CB. If you want to see a decent CB then look at Hector. Hector is way better. Hector is very good at bringing the ball out as is his very good distribution. Hector is most definitely my first choice an I hope we can extend his contract. I personally don’t think the team can mount a serious promotion challenge with Innis in the side.We just ship too many goals for that. Let’s just stop shipping silly goals - if Innis isn’t the problem then for sure someone is! Just my opinion for what it’s worth as indeed you are entitled to yours.
Comments
But, hey, we support Charlton Athletic, so why am I not surprised at sweating the last 20 mins 😀
2 things for me :-
Hector - we need this fella to stay - fucking top draw at this level
Campbell - wow - still raw, but he has the makings of some player - Burton fullback was shitting his pants every time Campbell went at him
You must have been watching Payne and not Kane.
I'm going to try and balance some of the negativity to Payne from the forum tonight.. Can't defend the tackles etc and the ultimate card. But he does try to change games(Yes Ha !Ha! Did that today). I think I can say that for nearly every game he has got on the pitch with one exception.
Tell me if I am wrong but I remember 2 positives in his short cameo
1.Powerful shot skimmed off the bar
2. Played a lovely defence splitting ball which put ?? through 1 on 1 with the keeper, about 2-3 yards too heavy.
Maybe he is trying too hard, or is not good enough overall. But come on there were some good things there.
Deserved win: 13 year old says "it was tense".
Good to see out a win with first XI subbed out by and large.
Harsh sending off for Payne.
Rak Sakyi immense, my favourite player unfortunately as he is a loanee.
Still can't warm to Bonne this time round, despite the goal: no aerial threat, unexceptional pace, uninspiring positioning, standard dribbling. I do hope he completes his "unfinished business".
Playing for pride now, with a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance of making the playoffs. Still, a win is ... a win.
2. Trying to claim an overhit pass as a positive is really a stretch!
I quite like Payne, but sadly he isn’t good enough if we want to improve our chances of promotion.
Does it have his and Egbo’s weights?
Regretfully, they are just not good enough.
Dobson, Fraser and A.N. Other would be a decent enough 3 next season with Payne and Kilkenny/McGrandles upgraded to cover alongside Morgan (as I doubt we'll be able to shift and replace 3 midfielders all with better).
Friend of mine who is a goalie blamed Hector for their first - blocking AMB so he couldn’t get any power/ momentum. But down to AMB imo. Still, he hasn’t made many mistakes and it didn’t lose us points in the end. And I love Big Hec.
Payne is and always has been L2. Puts himself about but that’s it.
Yes I thought when we made triple sub ‘this lot are a bit small’. Understandable to take off Egbo as just back from injury and Dobbo who’d taken a hefty knock but didn’t understand Fraser going off. It resulted in complete switch of momentum to them.
AMB, Ness, Mitchell, Campbell all may turn out to be good players, but it’s too early to say either way, imo. So for me, I think we’re quite far off still. I also think it’s important to factor in the time of year, the fact there’s nothing to play for and there’s no pressure and some of them like Inniss, Thomas, Morgan etc may be playing for a contract.
Holden coming in and performances since Garner has gone have improved, but it was a low bar and we still turn in some turd at times. Personally, I can’t see our best 11 now being an 8th placed team over the course of the season but we’ll never know. JRS has been the stand out player and has done well, but we already have to replace him next year. None of us knew how well Leaburn would do so that’s a bonus, but at the moment next season’s front 3 could be CBT, Leaburn & Campbell. Our midfield 3 is Dobson, Fraser plus one other, and we’ve got a back 4 of Egbo, Ness & maybe Hector.
I've no idea how he can accurately be described diminutive/minute/small/tiny?
The Burton player got away from Bonne, so Inniss went with that player and left his man free.
It wasn't great defending by the two of them.
But Bonne was the one who ended up marking no one.
It was Payne (not Kane) who was "marking" the goal scorer, Payne falling/diving making himself about 4 foot tall.
The ref could see the ball was clearly way over the line.
One point needed for mathematical safety from relegation.
What a season.
Thus I was pleased for him when he got his goal and a good round of applause when he was subbed and made to walk around the pitch.
I personally don’t think the team can mount a serious promotion challenge with Innis in the side.We just ship too many goals for that. Let’s just stop shipping silly goals - if Innis isn’t the problem then for sure someone is!
Just my opinion for what it’s worth as indeed you are entitled to yours.