I can't believe that he's so naive not to know the role of a CEO. From the various points he makes about himself I think he's going to perform the role in all but name.
Reads more to me like he does understand the role of a CEO but doesn’t see the value of having one that is responsible for both the football and business side of Charlton Athletic. He’s probably not wrong there is he? Sounds like the plan is for Andy Scott to oversee all things football and Rodwell and/or Methven on commercial/business.
I can't believe that he's so naive not to know the role of a CEO. From the various points he makes about himself I think he's going to perform the role in all but name.
Reads more to me like he does understand the role of a CEO but doesn’t see the value of having one that is responsible for both the football and business side of Charlton Athletic. He’s probably not wrong there is he? Sounds like the plan is for Andy Scott to oversee all things football and Rodwell and/or Methven on commercial/business.
CEO - Manages the business side. Director of Football - Manages the Football side.
@PragueAddick thanks very much for posting the interview - obviously have to take what CM says with a pinch of salt but it is interesting to read his approach to things set out.
One immediate thought is that the passage around the investors reasons for getting involved - not looking for a return / flip - doesn't make any sense to me. Why bother paying as much as they have for a club with no assets if the play isn't to flip it?
I don't want to start sounding like a CM ambassador, but I think he means something like this: The ESI gangs had no money, and their only goal was to get some, by flipping it quickly; TS had some money but not as much to spare as he belatedly realised the thing would need. I don't know if we've really established how rich Friedman and Brener are; but I think CM is implying that they are rich enough that this is a small punt for them moneywise. So their professional pride demands that sooner or later they see a profit - a big one if we return to the FAPL - but they can wait and see. Unlike Southall, NImer, et al who needed easy money, quickly.
I hope so, anyway, but as you say, keep the salt handy...
Thanks Prague.
From what I can find (in a 5 minute web search), Friedman is worth something crazy like $23 Billion. That's pretty well capitalised.
Where did you find that networth for Freidman? Link?
@PragueAddick thanks very much for posting the interview - obviously have to take what CM says with a pinch of salt but it is interesting to read his approach to things set out.
One immediate thought is that the passage around the investors reasons for getting involved - not looking for a return / flip - doesn't make any sense to me. Why bother paying as much as they have for a club with no assets if the play isn't to flip it?
I don't want to start sounding like a CM ambassador, but I think he means something like this: The ESI gangs had no money, and their only goal was to get some, by flipping it quickly; TS had some money but not as much to spare as he belatedly realised the thing would need. I don't know if we've really established how rich Friedman and Brener are; but I think CM is implying that they are rich enough that this is a small punt for them moneywise. So their professional pride demands that sooner or later they see a profit - a big one if we return to the FAPL - but they can wait and see. Unlike Southall, NImer, et al who needed easy money, quickly.
I hope so, anyway, but as you say, keep the salt handy...
Thanks Prague.
From what I can find (in a 5 minute web search), Friedman is worth something crazy like $23 Billion. That's pretty well capitalised.
Where did you find that networth for Freidman? Link?
Dazz I think thats the value of the hedge fund he is CEO of, not his own personal wealth which will be a fraction of that.
@PragueAddick thanks very much for posting the interview - obviously have to take what CM says with a pinch of salt but it is interesting to read his approach to things set out.
One immediate thought is that the passage around the investors reasons for getting involved - not looking for a return / flip - doesn't make any sense to me. Why bother paying as much as they have for a club with no assets if the play isn't to flip it?
I don't want to start sounding like a CM ambassador, but I think he means something like this: The ESI gangs had no money, and their only goal was to get some, by flipping it quickly; TS had some money but not as much to spare as he belatedly realised the thing would need. I don't know if we've really established how rich Friedman and Brener are; but I think CM is implying that they are rich enough that this is a small punt for them moneywise. So their professional pride demands that sooner or later they see a profit - a big one if we return to the FAPL - but they can wait and see. Unlike Southall, NImer, et al who needed easy money, quickly.
I hope so, anyway, but as you say, keep the salt handy...
Thanks Prague.
From what I can find (in a 5 minute web search), Friedman is worth something crazy like $23 Billion. That's pretty well capitalised.
Where did you find that networth for Freidman? Link?
A deeper look into that number - suggests that his companies hold assets of 23 billion. So he's definitely not quite that minted.
It's really hard to find anything solid on any of these chaps without paying to sign up for investment sites.
What about making a return on everything by asset stripping (players) and then walking away?
Is it possible in business to do that?
If you have assets yes, but that's different to a flip.. also a flip is short term and not over years. Considering the amount of people supposedly involved, id have thought there are far easier ways to make money than asset stripping CAFC.
What about gambling on success, not making money, so asset stripping to make the losses less bad?
Sometimes I get two Euromillions lucky dips for £5, and occasionally will get a ‘winning’ return of £3.70 or suchlike.
Is that not what they are doing? I'd call it a gamble, because the opposite of a gamble is certainty. They certainly ain't doing it for charity purposes.
What about making a return on everything by asset stripping (players) and then walking away?
Is it possible in business to do that?
If you have assets yes, but that's different to a flip.. also a flip is short term and not over years. Considering the amount of people supposedly involved, id have thought there are far easier ways to make money than asset stripping CAFC.
Flip is term which has grown out of Private Equity and Venture Capital investment in business If you look at the likes of Cinven (venture capital) and/or TDR Capital (private equity) they typically hold a company for a number of years before selling it on to realise a profit. They will try to improve the operation and value of the company during their period of ownership and thus flipping does not normally happen in the first 2-3 years since they will want evidence of their work to bear fruit but still not want to own the business for the long term once its value growth has plateaued. They will then either flip the company to another investor who will believe that they have the ability to improve further or conduct an IPO and pass the risk and value onto the stock market. Sometimes they get it wrong and cant improve the value and no-one else wants to buy......
I can't believe that he's so naive not to know the role of a CEO. From the various points he makes about himself I think he's going to perform the role in all but name.
Reads more to me like he does understand the role of a CEO but doesn’t see the value of having one that is responsible for both the football and business side of Charlton Athletic. He’s probably not wrong there is he? Sounds like the plan is for Andy Scott to oversee all things football and Rodwell and/or Methven on commercial/business.
CEO - Manages the business side. Director of Football - Manages the Football side.
At least I would hope for that.
Swap CEO to COO and you have the right setup. A Chairman overseeing both and reporting to the shareholders on financials.
@seth plum please lighten up a little. You seem to be constantly looking for negatives! There's so.e good stuff in that interview and it would be a good idea to give them a bloody chance. Your scepticism seems to be getting worse. We don't have £10m + of assets in the academy, he has also stated that the academy is important. Like I said a few days ago, let's see how they do for a few weeks!
However I wonder if there would be a possibility of getting and saving millions by selling off every academy graduate we have and cost saving by shutting the whole thing down.
Brentford shut down their academy when they were saving money to build their new stadium. They then had to restart it to satisfy the governing bodies.
What about making a return on everything by asset stripping (players) and then walking away?
Is it possible in business to do that?
If you have assets yes, but that's different to a flip.. also a flip is short term and not over years. Considering the amount of people supposedly involved, id have thought there are far easier ways to make money than asset stripping CAFC.
Flip is term which has grown out of Private Equity and Venture Capital investment in business If you look at the likes of Cinven (venture capital) and/or TDR Capital (private equity) they typically hold a company for a number of years before selling it on to realise a profit. They will try to improve the operation and value of the company during their period of ownership and thus flipping does not normally happen in the first 2-3 years since they will want evidence of their work to bear fruit but still not want to own the business for the long term once its value growth has plateaued. They will then either flip the company to another investor who will believe that they have the ability to improve further or conduct an IPO and pass the risk and value onto the stock market. Sometimes they get it wrong and cant improve the value and no-one else wants to buy......
I know the term flip from the art world. Buying an artwork today for 1k and selling it tomorrow for 3k. Whatever the origin, the fact remains that the only way to make this work is to improve the club.
@PragueAddick thanks for sharing this. it's a really good interview and dare I say I am optimistic now. Brener and Freidman sound and look like the most sensible and viable owners we have had since our Prem days.
Can I ask you one thing... What was you gut feeling having this conversation with CM. he comes across well to me with his answers. but what is your gut feel?
I say this as, for example everyone who met Southall knew he was a wrongun within seconds! TS, stories still to come, but the videos of him posing for photo shoots etc, a little worrying..
Thanks for sharing the interview @PragueAddick . CM actually come across better than I was expecting. I think he answered in a reasoned, measured way. Without the hyperbole that we’ve seen from recent takeovers, no “we’ll be in the Premier League in five years nonsense and no stupidity about trying to break even and be self sufficient whilst in League One.
I’m still sceptical, but realistically there’s nothing CM could say in a single interview that would change that perspective.
I think the success of this latest chapter in our history will depend on whether the complexity of the ownership structure is a gift or a curse.
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
What about making a return on everything by asset stripping (players) and then walking away?
Is it possible in business to do that?
If you have assets yes, but that's different to a flip.. also a flip is short term and not over years. Considering the amount of people supposedly involved, id have thought there are far easier ways to make money than asset stripping CAFC.
Flip is term which has grown out of Private Equity and Venture Capital investment in business If you look at the likes of Cinven (venture capital) and/or TDR Capital (private equity) they typically hold a company for a number of years before selling it on to realise a profit. They will try to improve the operation and value of the company during their period of ownership and thus flipping does not normally happen in the first 2-3 years since they will want evidence of their work to bear fruit but still not want to own the business for the long term once its value growth has plateaued. They will then either flip the company to another investor who will believe that they have the ability to improve further or conduct an IPO and pass the risk and value onto the stock market. Sometimes they get it wrong and cant improve the value and no-one else wants to buy......
I know the term flip from the art world. Buying an artwork today for 1k and selling it tomorrow for 3k. Whatever the origin, the fact remains that the only way to make this work is to improve the club.
Everyone obsessed with this term Flip .Yes they may be looking to sell on , but these are very wealthy guys and they are probably gone past the stage of making a quick buck and being a major shareholder in a successful English club may sit very nicely in their portfolio and so maybe we’ll be seen as a long term investment . Would love to know what drove the recently deceased owner of our dear neighbours to invest some 100 million £ ?? He was never going to flip that club . Answers on a postcard .
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
I think for the vast majority of us success would be building a squad capable of a minimum top 6 finish this year, with the aim to get promoted next year if we don't win the play offs this season. Once promoted, steady and intelligent investment to establish us as a Championship team with an outside shot at the playoffs over the few years after that.
If we can do the above whilst attaining category one status for the academy I think that is a very successful 4-5 years of ownership without needing gamble astronomical sums.
I know it sounds easy written down and no doubt there will be big challenges along the way to achieve it, but having at the right senior management team in place and astute investment in the playing side should make it a real possibility.
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
I think for the vast majority of us success would be building a squad capable of a minimum top 6 finish this year, with the aim to get promoted next year if we don't win the play offs this season. Once promoted, steady and intelligent investment to establish us as a Championship team with an outside shot at the playoffs over the few years after that.
If we can do the above whilst attaining category one status for the academy I think that is a very successful 4-5 years of ownership without needing gamble astronomical sums.
I know it sounds easy written down and no doubt there will be big challenges along the way to achieve it, but having at the right senior management team in place and astute investment in the playing side should make it a real possibility.
Sounds fine but will probably require, shall we say, £100m net investment?
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
I think for the vast majority of us success would be building a squad capable of a minimum top 6 finish this year, with the aim to get promoted next year if we don't win the play offs this season. Once promoted, steady and intelligent investment to establish us as a Championship team with an outside shot at the playoffs over the few years after that.
If we can do the above whilst attaining category one status for the academy I think that is a very successful 4-5 years of ownership without needing gamble astronomical sums.
I know it sounds easy written down and no doubt there will be big challenges along the way to achieve it, but having at the right senior management team in place and astute investment in the playing side should make it a real possibility.
What about making a return on everything by asset stripping (players) and then walking away?
Is it possible in business to do that?
If you have assets yes, but that's different to a flip.. also a flip is short term and not over years. Considering the amount of people supposedly involved, id have thought there are far easier ways to make money than asset stripping CAFC.
Flip is term which has grown out of Private Equity and Venture Capital investment in business If you look at the likes of Cinven (venture capital) and/or TDR Capital (private equity) they typically hold a company for a number of years before selling it on to realise a profit. They will try to improve the operation and value of the company during their period of ownership and thus flipping does not normally happen in the first 2-3 years since they will want evidence of their work to bear fruit but still not want to own the business for the long term once its value growth has plateaued. They will then either flip the company to another investor who will believe that they have the ability to improve further or conduct an IPO and pass the risk and value onto the stock market. Sometimes they get it wrong and cant improve the value and no-one else wants to buy......
I know the term flip from the art world. Buying an artwork today for 1k and selling it tomorrow for 3k. Whatever the origin, the fact remains that the only way to make this work is to improve the club.
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
I think for the vast majority of us success would be building a squad capable of a minimum top 6 finish this year, with the aim to get promoted next year if we don't win the play offs this season. Once promoted, steady and intelligent investment to establish us as a Championship team with an outside shot at the playoffs over the few years after that.
If we can do the above whilst attaining category one status for the academy I think that is a very successful 4-5 years of ownership without needing gamble astronomical sums.
I know it sounds easy written down and no doubt there will be big challenges along the way to achieve it, but having at the right senior management team in place and astute investment in the playing side should make it a real possibility.
Sounds fine but will probably require, shall we say, £100m net investment?
I think it could be done for around 60mil over 5 years but would require a lot of luck too. If the youngsters we currently have are able to fulfil their potential it would massively help, whether they become first players or are sold on.
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
I think for the vast majority of us success would be building a squad capable of a minimum top 6 finish this year, with the aim to get promoted next year if we don't win the play offs this season. Once promoted, steady and intelligent investment to establish us as a Championship team with an outside shot at the playoffs over the few years after that.
If we can do the above whilst attaining category one status for the academy I think that is a very successful 4-5 years of ownership without needing gamble astronomical sums.
I know it sounds easy written down and no doubt there will be big challenges along the way to achieve it, but having at the right senior management team in place and astute investment in the playing side should make it a real possibility.
Sounds fine but will probably require, shall we say, £100m net investment?
Can you elaborate. I am trying to work out how in 3-5 years you think we'd need £100m investment to become a more established championship side.
I know we need something like £10-£12m per season, but that's only £50-60m.
A sensible transfer plan would see us spend maybe £20m at a stretch in that time.
So what is the excess £20m?
I KNOW I am definitely missing bits so just looking for some idea as to what other costs they'd be pumping in cash to cover. There is no attempt to dig out etc here.
Short term success would be a return of Championship football to The Valley. Medium term success would be the ownership of The Valley and Sparrows Lane to be held by the owners of the football club. Long term success would be something tangible for the supporters, such as the return of Premier League football, or success in the FA Cup/League Cup. As I am about to enter my eighth decade, I hope I will be around long enough to enjoy watching Championship football at a club-owned Valley!
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
I think for the vast majority of us success would be building a squad capable of a minimum top 6 finish this year, with the aim to get promoted next year if we don't win the play offs this season. Once promoted, steady and intelligent investment to establish us as a Championship team with an outside shot at the playoffs over the few years after that.
If we can do the above whilst attaining category one status for the academy I think that is a very successful 4-5 years of ownership without needing gamble astronomical sums.
I know it sounds easy written down and no doubt there will be big challenges along the way to achieve it, but having at the right senior management team in place and astute investment in the playing side should make it a real possibility.
Sounds fine but will probably require, shall we say, £100m net investment?
I think it could be done for around 60mil over 5 years but would require a lot of luck too. If the youngsters we currently have are able to fulfil their potential it would massively help, whether they become first players or are sold on.
OK let’s say £60m. What we can be very confident amount is that it requires many tens of millions of investment (including the purchase price). What is the incentive for these high worth individuals to put that money in if they have no interest in running the club or significant return on their investment? Do they really want to get involved for the kudos of association with lower division football?
Or have they been sold a fanciful analysis of the potential for business growth by the “executives” who in the meantime appoint their own scrutiny panel to achieve a veneer of accountability but with no practical ability to challenge them?
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
I think for the vast majority of us success would be building a squad capable of a minimum top 6 finish this year, with the aim to get promoted next year if we don't win the play offs this season. Once promoted, steady and intelligent investment to establish us as a Championship team with an outside shot at the playoffs over the few years after that.
If we can do the above whilst attaining category one status for the academy I think that is a very successful 4-5 years of ownership without needing gamble astronomical sums.
I know it sounds easy written down and no doubt there will be big challenges along the way to achieve it, but having at the right senior management team in place and astute investment in the playing side should make it a real possibility.
Sounds fine but will probably require, shall we say, £100m net investment?
Is that how much Plymouth have spent on the last two seasons?
Comments
Director of Football - Manages the Football side.
At least I would hope for that.
It's really hard to find anything solid on any of these chaps without paying to sign up for investment sites.
a camel is a horse designed by committee
"Nobody ever built a statue to a committee."
Roger Stone
They will try to improve the operation and value of the company during their period of ownership and thus flipping does not normally happen in the first 2-3 years since they will want evidence of their work to bear fruit but still not want to own the business for the long term once its value growth has plateaued.
They will then either flip the company to another investor who will believe that they have the ability to improve further or conduct an IPO and pass the risk and value onto the stock market. Sometimes they get it wrong and cant improve the value and no-one else wants to buy......
Can I ask you one thing... What was you gut feeling having this conversation with CM. he comes across well to me with his answers. but what is your gut feel?
I say this as, for example everyone who met Southall knew he was a wrongun within seconds! TS, stories still to come, but the videos of him posing for photo shoots etc, a little worrying..
so what do you think of CM?
I think the success of this latest chapter in our history will depend on whether the complexity of the ownership structure is a gift or a curse.
Everyone obsessed with this term Flip .Yes they may be looking to sell on , but these are very wealthy guys and they are probably gone past the stage of making a quick buck and being a major shareholder in a successful English club may sit very nicely in their portfolio and so maybe we’ll be seen as a long term investment .
Would love to know what drove the recently deceased owner of our dear neighbours to invest some 100 million £ ?? He was never going to flip that club .
Answers on a postcard .
If we can do the above whilst attaining category one status for the academy I think that is a very successful 4-5 years of ownership without needing gamble astronomical sums.
I know it sounds easy written down and no doubt there will be big challenges along the way to achieve it, but having at the right senior management team in place and astute investment in the playing side should make it a real possibility.
I know we need something like £10-£12m per season, but that's only £50-60m.
A sensible transfer plan would see us spend maybe £20m at a stretch in that time.
So what is the excess £20m? I KNOW I am definitely missing bits so just looking for some idea as to what other costs they'd be pumping in cash to cover. There is no attempt to dig out etc here.
Long term success would be something tangible for the supporters, such as the return of Premier League football, or success in the FA Cup/League Cup.
As I am about to enter my eighth decade, I hope I will be around long enough to enjoy watching Championship football at a club-owned Valley!