I think the main reason people want him in is his dead ball delivery and there’s an argument that actually a dead ball specialist is the most jmportant player in games like yesterday’s and Tuesdays which are likely to be scrappy affairs with lots of dead balls. I’m not sure how you shoehorn him in though. It might work with Coventry and Berry if Ramsay and Small are really allowed to bomb on. 352 out of possession and 3232 in possession, would help to pin opposition back a bit possibly too
I want him in because he can't be worse than what we've tried so far this season, and based on the hype around his signature and how annoyed Burton were that he left them, he should be a decent player, and in the flashes in pre season and in the BDSM Trophy he again looked decent enough. Dead ball delivery will be a welcome bonus on top of that, his issue is people (NJ included I think) have decided he's too similar to Coventry, who's been the best of a mediocre midfield bunch so far this season.
We played 352 all season, and the midfield were dogged but ineffective, we changed to 343 and the 2 in the middle got swamped, I think it's time we tried out a couple of players on the outside looking in
If I was thinking of putting it him, it would be because his set piece delivery may be better than we have got. To be honest, we currently haven't got anything so it is something that needs trying.
'Does the same job as Coventry' I've been waiting for everyone to turn on one of our best players purely because he's been saddled with set-piece duty. Would Taylor really show that sort of energy, ballwinning ability and nous? I notice the 'pfah and to think we replaced Dobson with this guy' comments starting up. I wonder what sort of reputation Dobson would have had if he took all the corners and free kicks.
It wasn't just his set pieces that were poor yesterday, though.
Taylor however is this season's Louis Watson. He will get better and better the longer he doesn't play.
'Does the same job as Coventry' I've been waiting for everyone to turn on one of our best players purely because he's been saddled with set-piece duty. Would Taylor really show that sort of energy, ballwinning ability and nous? I notice the 'pfah and to think we replaced Dobson with this guy' comments starting up. I wonder what sort of reputation Dobson would have had if he took all the corners and free kicks.
I thought Coventry was supposed to be an excellent set piece taker?
'Does the same job as Coventry' I've been waiting for everyone to turn on one of our best players purely because he's been saddled with set-piece duty. Would Taylor really show that sort of energy, ballwinning ability and nous? I notice the 'pfah and to think we replaced Dobson with this guy' comments starting up. I wonder what sort of reputation Dobson would have had if he took all the corners and free kicks.
It wasn't just his set pieces that were poor yesterday, though.
Taylor however is this season's Louis Watson. He will get better and better the longer he doesn't play.
He was fine. He's been one of our best players this season, inarguably
'Does the same job as Coventry' I've been waiting for everyone to turn on one of our best players purely because he's been saddled with set-piece duty. Would Taylor really show that sort of energy, ballwinning ability and nous? I notice the 'pfah and to think we replaced Dobson with this guy' comments starting up. I wonder what sort of reputation Dobson would have had if he took all the corners and free kicks.
It wasn't just his set pieces that were poor yesterday, though.
Taylor however is this season's Louis Watson. He will get better and better the longer he doesn't play.
He was fine. He's been one of our best players this season, inarguably
He's been much better this season, I agree. He was poor yesterday.
Taylor and Coventry are very similar but that doesn't mean they can't play together.
As much as he faded, it was inevitable he would be slightly rusty so that's to be expected. I loved some of his dead-ball delivery and his availability and quick -passing did catch the eye
Taylor has definitely not been given enough of a chance with us and probably deserves to get more opportunities when the games come thick and fast over winter. It will almost be like having a new signing.
Echoing Swisdom's words following yesterday's performance.
'Does the same job as Coventry' I've been waiting for everyone to turn on one of our best players purely because he's been saddled with set-piece duty. Would Taylor really show that sort of energy, ballwinning ability and nous? I notice the 'pfah and to think we replaced Dobson with this guy' comments starting up. I wonder what sort of reputation Dobson would have had if he took all the corners and free kicks.
No one is saying Coventry hasn’t been one of the better players but you cannot argue that they do a very similar job, they have similar skill sets. You could play Coventry slightly further forward and have Taylor in midfield too but it would be Taylor taking the set pieces, we’ve seen enough now that Coventry isn’t very good at them and that has to change or be changed.
He simply has to offer more than Anderson. That simple for me.
Terry Taylor has played a full season at Burton in this league and made an impact, with respect to Karoy, as he is an academy lad, and I want the best for him, he's not ready for this level. I don't think he'd even start games at the likes of Crawley etc, he should be on loan.
Put Terry Taylor and Coventry in midfield together, and I'm very confident it will look better than whatever it is I watched yesterday. The only two midfielders at the club who can make a successful short pass.
I’m not defending Anderson whatsoever here, and essentially agree with your assessment of his ability - but Taylor and Anderson have completely different attributes so unless we completely change the system and style of play I don’t think you can say Taylor offers more currently.
Perhaps, as Sage mentioned, if we played a 4-2-3-1. However we have not recruited for that formation, and do not have the wingers or ‘10’ to play it - so I really just don’t see how that is any better.
I do find it interesting that over the last year Taylor was much maligned as a poor investment under the previous ownership, and now after one solid game in the BSM cup against bottom of the league Cambridge who have not won a match all season - he now should be propelled back into the team.
Now don’t get me wrong, as I mentioned in the post match thread I’m finding the football currently absolutely abhorrent. But for me that is down to Jones to go back to the team he started the season with and show us how he is a coach that got picked up by a premiership team.
If Reuben Selles can get a bunch of kids and a tacked together squad at Reading to play good football - then if Jones can’t get this squad of players able to actually ‘pass through teams’ then for me Luton was clearly the outlier.
I wasn't aware there had been many comments to that effect? I think he only played a handful of games last season before his injury and once recovered and Jones became manager he didn't get a look in at the tail end of the season, or the start of this season. I don't see any harm in giving him a chance.
I've been a confirmed member of the Leave Terry Alone party (sole member) since he signed as I don't think we ever got to see what he could do last season and people were very harsh on him, but I am finding it quite funny how much his qualities have been boosted by not playing. One of the things Taylor got some grief for last season in fact was poor set pieces. I'm not just some insane contrarian, I'd love it if Taylor came good and if he can do it alongside Coventry then all the better, but I think people are setting themselves up for Charlton shaped disappointment if the only thing that can save us is the holding midfielder who hasn't played yet. I guess maybe we'll see
I've been a confirmed member of the Leave Terry Alone party (sole member) since he signed as I don't think we ever got to see what he could do last season and people were very harsh on him, but I am finding it quite funny how much his qualities have been boosted by not playing. One of the things Taylor got some grief for last season in fact was poor set pieces. I'm not just some insane contrarian, I'd love it if Taylor came good and if he can do it alongside Coventry then all the better, but I think people are setting themselves up for Charlton shaped disappointment if the only thing that can save us is the holding midfielder who hasn't played yet. I guess maybe we'll see
Fair enough but no-one is in a position to say either " I told you so !" or " I hold up my hands & admit I was wrong " until his inclusion is tried.
Like others, I was impressed with his performance at Cambridge in the Cup match and feel he deserves a run of games to show if he's able to make a positive difference.
Ah, the player who is suddenly a world beater when we lose a couple of games
When we signed him, there were two main things that stood out which gave hope he'd be a great fit.
1. The fact he's proven. He played a full season at this level and was a stand out player for a decent Burton team 2. His delivery of set pieces
On Saturday we had the likes of Anderson who, no doubting his potential, was exposed by his current inexperience at this level. And our set pieces were beyond awful, which at this level is inexcusable as set pieces are such a big part of any successful team. So whilst none of us know how good Taylor is as we unfortunately haven't seen enough of him (I think we would have last season, if it weren't for injury), two of his main strengths (above) are precisely two of the biggest issues we are currently trying to solve, so it's an argument that makes sense as opposed to simply 'we were crap, we need to switch it around'.
I don't think anyone sees Taylor as a world beater, more that he's a player who specifically can offer key strengths we're currently lacking. Who knows if it will work or not but if we can fit him into the side there is potential for him to be a very logical and impactful solution
I've been a confirmed member of the Leave Terry Alone party (sole member) since he signed as I don't think we ever got to see what he could do last season and people were very harsh on him, but I am finding it quite funny how much his qualities have been boosted by not playing. One of the things Taylor got some grief for last season in fact was poor set pieces. I'm not just some insane contrarian, I'd love it if Taylor came good and if he can do it alongside Coventry then all the better, but I think people are setting themselves up for Charlton shaped disappointment if the only thing that can save us is the holding midfielder who hasn't played yet. I guess maybe we'll see
You are right of course, I just couldn’t help thinking about all the set pieces we completely wasted on Saturday. In scrappy games devoid of quality, they are often the difference
Taking it out on Coventry is baffling though. We had in our starting XI two wing-backs (Edwards and Ramsey) and two wide forwards (Kanu and T Campbell) who should ALL be able to whip a decent ball in. None of them can. Why does this happen to us?
I've been a confirmed member of the Leave Terry Alone party (sole member) since he signed as I don't think we ever got to see what he could do last season and people were very harsh on him, but I am finding it quite funny how much his qualities have been boosted by not playing. One of the things Taylor got some grief for last season in fact was poor set pieces. I'm not just some insane contrarian, I'd love it if Taylor came good and if he can do it alongside Coventry then all the better, but I think people are setting themselves up for Charlton shaped disappointment if the only thing that can save us is the holding midfielder who hasn't played yet. I guess maybe we'll see
Fair enough but no-one is in a position to say either " I told you so !" or " I hold up my hands & admit I was wrong " until his inclusion is tried.
Like others, I was impressed with his performance at Cambridge in the Cup match and feel he deserves a run of games to show if he's able to make a positive difference.
Oh I agree, I like the very little I've seen of him so far and I'd be delighted if he did well. I don't think anyone ever needs to hold their hands up or take credit when a player's performance goes one way or the other, we just want them all to be good. I just think it's interesting the way the pendulum has swung on Taylor from being seen as McGrandles v2.0 (doing great so far at Lincoln again) to being called for across the board with only one banter cup appearance inbetween. I think it's more reflective of where we are as a fanbase than it is of him.
Taken from Dean Holden's statement when we signed Taylor:
"....He's got a good eye for a pass and is an excellent set-piece taker...He is really good off the ball in terms of his mobility around the pitch, his pressing and his ability to win the ball back." And from an SLP piece back when he joined:
"Taylor, who can play an anchoring role or slightly more advanced, collected four assists in 26 League One matches in 2022-23"
I still dont see why he and Coventry cant play together, even if in the so called double pivot. He most definitely hasn't been given enough of a chance for any of us to see if the above is true, but he did match the description in the BSM game so cant be that wrong about him.
At the very least I'd rather have him on the bench over A. Campbell right now.
All we are saying is give him a chance. Might be good, might be crap but one thing is for sure our set pieces couldn't possibly get any worse at the moment. Also, is it really a prerequisite for a Nathan Jones side that every single player has to be capable of running around like a Duracell bunny on steroids for circa 100 minutes?
Jones is stubborn, he won't want to admit that his midfield isn't good enough or that Taylor is worthy of bench place ahead of one of his Luton chums. Reckon the slide would have to continue before he considers it.
Taylor was deeply unimpressive on the rare occasions he played last season, albeit that was in a struggling side and when he was often just back from injury.
He certainly was nothing like the player that was described when he signed and that played for Burton.
But then again neither were Kirk or McGrandles.
The team is currently struggling for creativity and for a dead ball taker yet despite a good game in what was a reserve side v Cambridge in the BSMT he remains just about the only senior squad member not to even get a place on the bench for a league game. REG got a start on the back of the game but Taylor was ignored.
That suggests that something is amiss or that he just doesn't fit the profile that Jones likes. NJ seems quite fixed on what he does and doesn't like and if you don't match that then you don't get a look in.
That's great when the team is winning but when we're not and NJ is making constant changes, even to the defence which has been our strongest part of the team, the total omission of Taylor seems odd but then Jones' team selection over the past three or four game has been odd.
The way we set up with five defenders and a defensive midfielder in Coventry means we have six predominately defensive players and four attack minded one.
The wing backs are meant to give us width join the attack but that has rarely happened because the midfield doesn't find them in the final third and while Gas works hard and battles centre backs he's not stretching them due to his lack of pace and he's not dominating in the air. The other forwards and Gas haven't clicked as a partnership either. Campbell has done well running at defenders but often too wide and too isolated. Godden has shown he can score goals when give the service but that has rarely happened.
Can Taylor feed the wingbacks higher up the pitch? Maybe.
Can he slot passes in for the front runners and other midfielders to run into the box with? Perhaps.
Can he take better set pieces that we are currently seeing? You'd think so given how poor they have been but it remains to be seen.
Mannion Ramsay Mitchell Jones Edwards Our four best defenders. Taylor and Coventry with ex-Luton and Zach as back-up. Upfront, either Ahadme, Aneke or Leaburn and Mbick could do a job. The three is tricky. Obviously TC, Dixon wide with Small Edun Asiimwe and Rylah an option. Ten could be Godden or Berry but one of the no9s might work there and Karoy can only improve.
The key is that plan A is crosses from WBs or high turnover isn't working. The rationalle to the above is decent full backs to supplement scary wide players (I doubt many L1 sides can defend against) with at least two of the 9s able to create their own chances out of nothing. And decent TT dead balls into dangerous aerial players.
Mannion Ramsay Mitchell Jones Edwards Our four best defenders. Taylor and Coventry with ex-Luton and Zach as back-up. Upfront, either Ahadme, Aneke or Leaburn and Mbick could do a job. The three is tricky. Obviously TC, Dixon wide with Small Edun Asiimwe and Rylah an option. Ten could be Godden or Berry but one of the no9s might work there and Karoy can only improve.
The key is that plan A is crosses from WBs or high turnover isn't working. The rationalle to the above is decent full backs to supplement scary wide players (I doubt many L1 sides can defend against) with at least two of the 9s able to create their own chances out of nothing. And decent TT dead balls into dangerous aerial players.
Totally agree with the 4-2-3-1
Can’t see jones doing it but would love to see Mannion Ramsay Mitchell jones edwards Taylor Coventry t.campbell. Berry. Small Leaburn
bench amb, Potts, z.Mitchell, Doherty, Dixon, godden and Aneke
Not giving Taylor a go, when the midfield has been inadequate all season, feels ridiculous and unjustifiable, especially when his EFL Trophy appearance showed he wasn't unfit or "lazy". None of the midfielders brought in during the summer have been great, while Karoy is still very raw. And we have a team desperately short of set piece takers. Coventry struggled with them on Saturday, but where were the alternatives?
Yes managers like having "their" players around them, but part of the job is to utilise the squad, including the players you inherit.
Not giving Taylor a go, when the midfield has been inadequate all season, feels ridiculous and unjustifiable, especially when his EFL Trophy appearance showed he wasn't unfit or "lazy". None of the midfielders brought in during the summer have been great, while Karoy is still very raw. And we have a team desperately short of set piece takers. Coventry struggled with them on Saturday, but where were the alternatives?
Yes managers like having "their" players around them, but part of the job is to utilise the squad, including the players you inherit.
It does seem a bit weird. He played against Cambridge, he did fairly well (against admittedly poor opposition) and then he's immediately bombed out again. I get why he wasn't in the side when we were getting results but recently we have been very poor, so surely at the very least he deserves a chance to start 1-2 league games, plus he can take a reasonably decent set piece when no one else we have ever seems to be able to.
Going against the tide here but I'm not so fussed. I thought he was alright during the Cambridge game and his forward passes were a bit sharper than Coventry's, but I'm not sure another defensively minded midfielder is the answer to our attacking woes.
Taking it out on Coventry is baffling though. We had in our starting XI two wing-backs (Edwards and Ramsey) and two wide forwards (Kanu and T Campbell) who should ALL be able to whip a decent ball in. None of them can. Why does this happen to us?
The more I think about this the more it feels like our biggest issue. No quality delivery from anywhere
Taking it out on Coventry is baffling though. We had in our starting XI two wing-backs (Edwards and Ramsey) and two wide forwards (Kanu and T Campbell) who should ALL be able to whip a decent ball in. None of them can. Why does this happen to us?
The more I think about this the more it feels like our biggest issue. No quality delivery from anywhere
The crosses coming in from our wing-backs this season have been pretty abysmal, particularly from Small who 90% of the time can't seem to clear the nearest defender.
Ah, the player who is suddenly a world beater when we lose a couple of games
When we signed him, there were two main things that stood out which gave hope he'd be a great fit.
1. The fact he's proven. He played a full season at this level and was a stand out player for a decent Burton team 2. His delivery of set pieces
On Saturday we had the likes of Anderson who, no doubting his potential, was exposed by his current inexperience at this level. And our set pieces were beyond awful, which at this level is inexcusable as set pieces are such a big part of any successful team. So whilst none of us know how good Taylor is as we unfortunately haven't seen enough of him (I think we would have last season, if it weren't for injury), two of his main strengths (above) are precisely two of the biggest issues we are currently trying to solve, so it's an argument that makes sense as opposed to simply 'we were crap, we need to switch it around'.
I don't think anyone sees Taylor as a world beater, more that he's a player who specifically can offer key strengths we're currently lacking. Who knows if it will work or not but if we can fit him into the side there is potential for him to be a very logical and impactful solution
We can't fit him into the side without dropping Coventry or playing with 2 defensive, no pace, midfielders, which we might do to get a 0-0. What joy!
Taking it out on Coventry is baffling though. We had in our starting XI two wing-backs (Edwards and Ramsey) and two wide forwards (Kanu and T Campbell) who should ALL be able to whip a decent ball in. None of them can. Why does this happen to us?
The more I think about this the more it feels like our biggest issue. No quality delivery from anywhere
The crosses coming in from our wing-backs this season have been pretty abysmal, particularly from Small who 90% of the time can't seem to clear the nearest
Comments
We played 352 all season, and the midfield were dogged but ineffective, we changed to 343 and the 2 in the middle got swamped, I think it's time we tried out a couple of players on the outside looking in
Taylor however is this season's Louis Watson. He will get better and better the longer he doesn't play.
Like others, I was impressed with his performance at Cambridge in the Cup match and feel he deserves a run of games to show if he's able to make a positive difference.
1. The fact he's proven. He played a full season at this level and was a stand out player for a decent Burton team
2. His delivery of set pieces
On Saturday we had the likes of Anderson who, no doubting his potential, was exposed by his current inexperience at this level. And our set pieces were beyond awful, which at this level is inexcusable as set pieces are such a big part of any successful team. So whilst none of us know how good Taylor is as we unfortunately haven't seen enough of him (I think we would have last season, if it weren't for injury), two of his main strengths (above) are precisely two of the biggest issues we are currently trying to solve, so it's an argument that makes sense as opposed to simply 'we were crap, we need to switch it around'.
I don't think anyone sees Taylor as a world beater, more that he's a player who specifically can offer key strengths we're currently lacking. Who knows if it will work or not but if we can fit him into the side there is potential for him to be a very logical and impactful solution
"....He's got a good eye for a pass and is an excellent set-piece taker...He is really good off the ball in terms of his mobility around the pitch, his pressing and his ability to win the ball back."
And from an SLP piece back when he joined:
"Taylor, who can play an anchoring role or slightly more advanced, collected four assists in 26 League One matches in 2022-23"
I still dont see why he and Coventry cant play together, even if in the so called double pivot. He most definitely hasn't been given enough of a chance for any of us to see if the above is true, but he did match the description in the BSM game so cant be that wrong about him.
At the very least I'd rather have him on the bench over A. Campbell right now.
Might be good, might be crap but one thing is for sure our set pieces couldn't possibly get any worse at the moment.
Also, is it really a prerequisite for a Nathan Jones side that every single player has to be capable of running around like a Duracell bunny on steroids for circa 100 minutes?
He certainly was nothing like the player that was described when he signed and that played for Burton.
But then again neither were Kirk or McGrandles.
The team is currently struggling for creativity and for a dead ball taker yet despite a good game in what was a reserve side v Cambridge in the BSMT he remains just about the only senior squad member not to even get a place on the bench for a league game. REG got a start on the back of the game but Taylor was ignored.
That suggests that something is amiss or that he just doesn't fit the profile that Jones likes. NJ seems quite fixed on what he does and doesn't like and if you don't match that then you don't get a look in.
That's great when the team is winning but when we're not and NJ is making constant changes, even to the defence which has been our strongest part of the team, the total omission of Taylor seems odd but then Jones' team selection over the past three or four game has been odd.
The way we set up with five defenders and a defensive midfielder in Coventry means we have six predominately defensive players and four attack minded one.
The wing backs are meant to give us width join the attack but that has rarely happened because the midfield doesn't find them in the final third and while Gas works hard and battles centre backs he's not stretching them due to his lack of pace and he's not dominating in the air. The other forwards and Gas haven't clicked as a partnership either. Campbell has done well running at defenders but often too wide and too isolated. Godden has shown he can score goals when give the service but that has rarely happened.
Can Taylor feed the wingbacks higher up the pitch? Maybe.
Can he slot passes in for the front runners and other midfielders to run into the box with? Perhaps.
Can he take better set pieces that we are currently seeing? You'd think so given how poor they have been but it remains to be seen.
Mannion
Ramsay Mitchell Jones Edwards
Our four best defenders. Taylor and Coventry with ex-Luton and Zach as back-up. Upfront, either Ahadme, Aneke or Leaburn and Mbick could do a job. The three is tricky. Obviously TC, Dixon wide with Small Edun Asiimwe and Rylah an option. Ten could be Godden or Berry but one of the no9s might work there and Karoy can only improve.
The key is that plan A is crosses from WBs or high turnover isn't working. The rationalle to the above is decent full backs to supplement scary wide players (I doubt many L1 sides can defend against) with at least two of the 9s able to create their own chances out of nothing. And decent TT dead balls into dangerous aerial players.
Yes managers like having "their" players around them, but part of the job is to utilise the squad, including the players you inherit.