Apart from the result I enjoyed the game and thought we played some good football unlike most I think we are 2 or 3 signings away from a very good shout at promotion. Dobson for me looks like a different player this season his confidence seems high and his passing has been great maybe use Taylor in the holding role and move him higher up. Lastly when CBT cuts in to shoot please can someone get on the far post so far this season we could have had 4 tap ins
Ness is crazy overrated for me, lost his man for the winner, criminal, certainly ain't good enough for a play-off chasing side
Asiimwe was out of position leaving Ness having to mark two players.
He was but that’s Holden’s fault. Dean chooses to play 352 & tells Asiimwe & Edun to play high up the pitch. We will get caught out a lot at the far post as a result (as it’s impossible for them to always get back).
We didn’t play 352 tonight though.
We did at the end, with the same back three that let in 2 goals a game last season-and we let one in. Definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. Our centre backs were not good enough for a promotion push last season, and not good enough this season.
AMB doesn't give me confidence, we need a centre back with pace desperately, need more height and speed in the team in general and of course, the elusive target man.
the game was actually really close, make no mistake. Just like Peterborough this could have gone our way, don't lose too much faith, a win against Port Vale now becomes vital though to keep teams we plan to compete with in touching distance.
On the plus side, I thought we played some good stuff at times, particularly in the first half, Dobbo was outstanding throughout, there was a fine debut from Edun and our three teenagers all did very well.
The problem with the team - in addition to the absence of an experienced strike partner for May and a lack of squad depth - is its continuing fragility in defence and an inability to manage games to carve out results. Individually, the performance of our defenders varied between ok and good but, collectively, we have a very soft underbelly. There are certainly mentality and coaching issues here that need to be addressed.
Once the window closes on 1 September, it would probably help to try and introduce some consistency in selection and style with, hopefully, the development of some effective partnerships across the team. Despite the gut punch of that last minute winner, I'm not too despondent although we need to turn things around quickly, starting on Saturday.
To castigate the club after 3 matches with a couple of weeks window still to go is a little unfair, the introduction of Edun, Camará and May are improvements and the introduction of Asiimwe, Anderson and Kanu are positives, we just need to get rid of a few and hopefully bring in better as has been suggested by Scott. It is too early to make season long assessments.
Fair point, but we have suffered this shit for years.
Re the non sending off, how are there covering defenders when they were behind May? Also not sure the ref had the wall back more than 6 or 7 yards on the resulting free kick.
Glad someone else noticed that. They had already formed their wall and eagerly accepted his invitation to step forward another yard when he laid down his magic marker. All captured in close up on the stream.
And yet, I agree with Greg Stubley, up to that point he'd had a good game. He tried hard not to book people, but at the same time had the cojones to book Marquis for cynically trying to buy a foul. The bloke on Saturday was far worse, IMO.
All the areas which concerned me in pre-season and have done in the league games I have watched so far were there again last night.
We look vulnerable every time a team attacks us. This starts with the keeper, who I don't think talks enough, he doesn't give me the impression that he is commanding his back 4/5 in any way shape or form. Defenders themselves aren't doing the basics, lets not sugar coat it, Rovers by rights, should have scored 4 last night. Sinclair should have put the lob away and we cleared 2 off the line. We also had a very Charlton-Esque period of utter dross after we conceded. I don't see any evidence of a change in mindset there.
I might be wrong, but I am sure Holden made a comment in pre-season that we would be the fittest team in the league. At the moment we might well be the least fit team in the league. Yes we have players getting up to speed after injuries, but there were players out there last night who had a full pre-season and were still blowing out of their arses after 75mins. The winning goal comes from the fact that Dobson, Asimwe and Ness didn't have the legs to track a simple run off the shoulder.
Rovers were visibly fitter than us and were still pushing hard in the 98th minute.
We are risking "ruining" a top centre forward. Humping long balls to May and expecting him to lead the line on his own is farcical. The striker situation should have been addressed the second Leaburn was injured - even if it was a loan.
The only positives for me were Edun, who looked very good and once (if) he gets fully fit he will be a real asset. Last night was the first time that Kanu has looked like he belonged in the first team. By and large he has looked totally lost every other time I have seen him. We are now in a position where he probably has to start on Saturday, which is ridiculous. Pan and Dobson were also good.
There are too many kids/inexperienced players starting and it again feels like we lack leaders and the character to grind out results. You can't keep making the same basic mistakes and expect to get results.
I am questioning Holden as well. He has set out to sign players for a 3-5-2 and seems to have moved away from it very quickly. His interview wasn't the best either. How was that a smash and grab? It was pretty even and in my opinion Rovers had the better chances and probably shaded it.
Agree with 95% of this. re Rovers were visibly fitter than us- didn't Barton change 3 players at about 65 mins? Good move by him.
Apart from the result I enjoyed the game and thought we played some good football unlike most I think we are 2 or 3 signings away from a very good shout at promotion. Dobson for me looks like a different player this season his confidence seems high and his passing has been great maybe use Taylor in the holding role and move him higher up. Lastly when CBT cuts in to shoot please can someone get on the far post so far this season we could have had 4 tap ins
I have been thinking this. I can't say 100% they would have got there but surely it covers the possibilities? If you watch these chances again, we are like statues.
All the areas which concerned me in pre-season and have done in the league games I have watched so far were there again last night.
We look vulnerable every time a team attacks us. This starts with the keeper, who I don't think talks enough, he doesn't give me the impression that he is commanding his back 4/5 in any way shape or form. Defenders themselves aren't doing the basics, lets not sugar coat it, Rovers by rights, should have scored 4 last night. Sinclair should have put the lob away and we cleared 2 off the line. We also had a very Charlton-Esque period of utter dross after we conceded. I don't see any evidence of a change in mindset there.
I might be wrong, but I am sure Holden made a comment in pre-season that we would be the fittest team in the league. At the moment we might well be the least fit team in the league. Yes we have players getting up to speed after injuries, but there were players out there last night who had a full pre-season and were still blowing out of their arses after 75mins. The winning goal comes from the fact that Dobson, Asimwe and Ness didn't have the legs to track a simple run off the shoulder.
Rovers were visibly fitter than us and were still pushing hard in the 98th minute.
We are risking "ruining" a top centre forward. Humping long balls to May and expecting him to lead the line on his own is farcical. The striker situation should have been addressed the second Leaburn was injured - even if it was a loan.
The only positives for me were Edun, who looked very good and once (if) he gets fully fit he will be a real asset. Last night was the first time that Kanu has looked like he belonged in the first team. By and large he has looked totally lost every other time I have seen him. We are now in a position where he probably has to start on Saturday, which is ridiculous. Pan and Dobson were also good.
There are too many kids/inexperienced players starting and it again feels like we lack leaders and the character to grind out results. You can't keep making the same basic mistakes and expect to get results.
I am questioning Holden as well. He has set out to sign players for a 3-5-2 and seems to have moved away from it very quickly. His interview wasn't the best either. How was that a smash and grab? It was pretty even and in my opinion Rovers had the better chances and probably shaded it.
Agree with 95% of this. re Rovers were visibly fitter than us- didn't Barton change 3 players at about 65 mins? Good move by him.
We have a bench full of kids or players Holden doesn't want to use...
May is easily buttoned up when up top on his own so we need to see Kanu (our top scorer!) Start next to him on Saturday. I'm not a fan with three at the back so I'd be opting for a 442 with CBT and Kirk on the wings. Dobbo and Camara in the middle.
Edun left back with Joyce at right back Hector and Ness in the middle. AMB between the sticks
Apart from the result I enjoyed the game and thought we played some good football unlike most I think we are 2 or 3 signings away from a very good shout at promotion. Dobson for me looks like a different player this season his confidence seems high and his passing has been great maybe use Taylor in the holding role and move him higher up. Lastly when CBT cuts in to shoot please can someone get on the far post so far this season we could have had 4 tap ins
He’s be absolutely outstanding so far, and it would be a very brave manager that would change his role at this stage.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he was receiving interest from Championship clubs.
For the winner we were tactically naive. They left plenty up, and when the ball was swung back in we were overloaded. Bit of ball watching from Asiimwe, Ness was isolated (and perhaps should have left the player he was marking), but fundamentally I think we were still thinking of nicking the win, so didn’t have enough men back.
I've just caught up on the last 9 pages of this thread - I didn't get home until 1:10am thanks to various lane closures and then the A11 link to the Newmarket Bypass being closed meaning I had to go through Newmarket itself for the first time in donkey's years and I didn't bother looking at it during the day yesterday.
I don't think there's too much I can add other than my 9-year-old granddaughter enjoyed her first game at The Valley (but not the result): "It's better than Norwich" were her words I don't know if that was because the atmosphere was better than when she'd been to Carrow Road for an FA Cup game (which City lost to Blackburn) or a pre-season friendly against Olympiakos or if she thought the seats were better: back row of the top draw of the Cupboard End vs lower tier of the Barclay at Carrow Road meaning she could see the game better. She liked Captain George so she's not a bad judge ...
A bit of perspective on current proceedings ...
20 years ago we were just embarking on what would turn out to be our best season for half a century, a high-point in a golden era under Lord Llewellyn, and could have been even better if the old No 7 hadn't thrown his toys out of the pram and buggered off to Moneybags FC in West London. In the end we missed out on UEFA Cup qualification by two places/three points but we'd had the highs of Lisbinho's hat-trick in a home win against Liverpool (we did the double over them that season), a draw at home against the eventual champions, Arsenal Invincible, the Boxing Day mauling of Chelsea at The Valley, the wonderful chaos of Blackburn's 'keeper, Brad Friedel, scoring an injury-time equaliser against us live on Sky ... only for Classy Jensen to bag the winner seconds after the restart. We had a squad of players including some absolute legends of the club including Saint Christopher Powell, Dean Kiely, the Hermannator, Captain Cleanshorts, the aforementioned Jensen, the Italian maestro, Paolo Di Canio, and my personal favourite, Kish. Good times.
This season we have: scraped a win against Leyton Orient, freshly promoted from Division Four; been unceremoniously dumped out of the League Cup by Fourth Division Newport County; lost at Peterborough and then followed that up to a home defeat against the second-best team in Bristol. We played a front two that is so small they could have stood on each other other's shoulders and still wouldn't get to Hermann's chin ... and we were playing high balls to them. We're pinning our goal-scoring hopes on inexperienced kids, one of whom isn't even fit, and a player who is unable to stay onside. Our defence isn't capable collectively of staying awake and concentrating for the entirety of a match.
EDIT: How could I forget? This is our 11th season in the Third Division out of the last 16; we'd had 14 seasons at this level prior to that in our history and ten of those were by the mid-1930s. After joining the Football League for the 1921-22 season we were in Division Three (South) for eight seasons, gaining promotion to Division Two in 1929. Since then it has never taken us more than three season to get out of this division ... until now: in our fourth season in this spell and right now I wouldn't bet against us having a fifth (maybe more) in the third tier.
What a time to be alive and following the Charlton Athletic Football Club.
Braziliance, excellent video, keep the good work up. I paid for the stream but my PC packed up just before Kanu scored, once again appreciate your excellent coverage!
The high balls to May thing is a bit of a misnomer tbh, I understood it as a means of creating second-ball opportunities for Camara and Anderson, who are both excellent at winning second balls and starting attacks
I've just caught up on the last 9 pages of this thread - I didn't get home until 1:10am thanks to various lane closures and then the A11 link to the Newmarket Bypass being closed meaning I had to go through Newmarket itself for the first time in donkey's years and I didn't bother looking at it during the day yesterday.
I don't think there's too much I can add other than my 9-year-old granddaughter enjoyed her first game at The Valley (but not the result): "It's better than Norwich" were her words I don't know if that was because the atmosphere was better than when she'd been to Carrow Road for an FA Cup game (which City lost to Blackburn) or a pre-season friendly against Olympiakos or if she thought the seats were better: back row of the top draw of the Cupboard End vs lower tier of the Barclay at Carrow Road meaning she could see the game better. She liked Captain George so she's not a bad judge ...
A bit of perspective on current proceedings ...
20 years ago we were just embarking on what would turn out to be our best season for half a century, a high-point in a golden era under Lord Llewellyn, and could have been even better if the old No 7 hadn't thrown his toys out of the pram and buggered off to Moneybags FC in West London. In the end we missed out on a UEFA by two places/three points but we'd had the highs of Lisbinho's hat-trick in a home win against Liverpool (we did the double over them that season), a draw at home against the eventual champions, Arsenal Invincible, the Boxing Day mauling of Chelsea at The Valley, the wonderful chaos of Blackburn's 'keeper, Brad Friedel, scoring an injury-time equaliser against us live on Sky ... only for Classy Jensen to bag the winner seconds after the restart. We had a squad of players including some absolute legends of the club including Saint Christopher Powell, Dean Kiely, the Hermannator, Captain Cleanshorts, the aforementioned Jensen, the Italian maestro, Paolo Di Canio, and my personal favourite, Kish. Good times.
This season we have: scraped a win against Leyton Orient, freshly promoted from Division Four; been unceremoniously dumped out of the League Cup by Fourth Division Newport County; lost at Peterborough and then followed that up to a home defeat against the second-best team in Bristol. We played a front two that is so small they could have stood on each other other's shoulders and still wouldn't get to Hermann's chin ... and we were playing high balls to them. We're pinning our goal-scoring hopes on inexperienced kids, one of whom isn't even fit, and a player who is unable to stay onside. Our defence isn't capable collectively of staying awake and concentrating for the entirety of a match.
What a time to be alive and following the Charlton Athletic Football Club.
The high balls to May thing is a bit of a misnomer tbh, I understood it as a means of creating second-ball opportunities for Camara and Anderson, who are both excellent at winning second balls and starting attacks
That's generous of you. I saw it as slightly nervous defenders who had exhausted their short ball options and weren't quite sure what to do. The "to May" bit was more hopeful punt over the top. We'll probably get more of those second balls when Leaburn or A.N Other is throwing their weight around.
Braziliance, excellent video, keep the good work up. I paid for the stream but my PC packed up just before Kanu scored, once again appreciate your excellent coverage!
Thanks you mate, really appreciate that
I am planning to make it a bit shorter next time, just got carried away with the first chance at making a proper video at a home game.
Without derailing the thread, is there anything in particular that you think is good or anything you think I should cut?
We have two of the three most accurate long ball passers in the division (after three games only admittedly). Lloyd Jones is in 12th and Fraser in 13th.
That would suggest the long ball ploy is deliberate.
I've just caught up on the last 9 pages of this thread - I didn't get home until 1:10am thanks to various lane closures and then the A11 link to the Newmarket Bypass being closed meaning I had to go through Newmarket itself for the first time in donkey's years and I didn't bother looking at it during the day yesterday.
I don't think there's too much I can add other than my 9-year-old granddaughter enjoyed her first game at The Valley (but not the result): "It's better than Norwich" were her words I don't know if that was because the atmosphere was better than when she'd been to Carrow Road for an FA Cup game (which City lost to Blackburn) or a pre-season friendly against Olympiakos or if she thought the seats were better: back row of the top draw of the Cupboard End vs lower tier of the Barclay at Carrow Road meaning she could see the game better. She liked Captain George so she's not a bad judge ...
A bit of perspective on current proceedings ...
20 years ago we were just embarking on what would turn out to be our best season for half a century, a high-point in a golden era under Lord Llewellyn, and could have been even better if the old No 7 hadn't thrown his toys out of the pram and buggered off to Moneybags FC in West London. In the end we missed out on a UEFA by two places/three points but we'd had the highs of Lisbinho's hat-trick in a home win against Liverpool (we did the double over them that season), a draw at home against the eventual champions, Arsenal Invincible, the Boxing Day mauling of Chelsea at The Valley, the wonderful chaos of Blackburn's 'keeper, Brad Friedel, scoring an injury-time equaliser against us live on Sky ... only for Classy Jensen to bag the winner seconds after the restart. We had a squad of players including some absolute legends of the club including Saint Christopher Powell, Dean Kiely, the Hermannator, Captain Cleanshorts, the aforementioned Jensen, the Italian maestro, Paolo Di Canio, and my personal favourite, Kish. Good times.
This season we have: scraped a win against Leyton Orient, freshly promoted from Division Four; been unceremoniously dumped out of the League Cup by Fourth Division Newport County; lost at Peterborough and then followed that up to a home defeat against the second-best team in Bristol. We played a front two that is so small they could have stood on each other other's shoulders and still wouldn't get to Hermann's chin ... and we were playing high balls to them. We're pinning our goal-scoring hopes on inexperienced kids, one of whom isn't even fit, and a player who is unable to stay onside. Our defence isn't capable collectively of staying awake and concentrating for the entirety of a match.
What a time to be alive and following the Charlton Athletic Football Club.
The high balls to May thing is a bit of a misnomer tbh, I understood it as a means of creating second-ball opportunities for Camara and Anderson, who are both excellent at winning second balls and starting attacks
I genuinely can't tell if you're being serious or not
I've just caught up on the last 9 pages of this thread - I didn't get home until 1:10am thanks to various lane closures and then the A11 link to the Newmarket Bypass being closed meaning I had to go through Newmarket itself for the first time in donkey's years and I didn't bother looking at it during the day yesterday.
I don't think there's too much I can add other than my 9-year-old granddaughter enjoyed her first game at The Valley (but not the result): "It's better than Norwich" were her words I don't know if that was because the atmosphere was better than when she'd been to Carrow Road for an FA Cup game (which City lost to Blackburn) or a pre-season friendly against Olympiakos or if she thought the seats were better: back row of the top draw of the Cupboard End vs lower tier of the Barclay at Carrow Road meaning she could see the game better. She liked Captain George so she's not a bad judge ...
A bit of perspective on current proceedings ...
20 years ago we were just embarking on what would turn out to be our best season for half a century, a high-point in a golden era under Lord Llewellyn, and could have been even better if the old No 7 hadn't thrown his toys out of the pram and buggered off to Moneybags FC in West London. In the end we missed out on UEFA Cup qualification by two places/three points but we'd had the highs of Lisbinho's hat-trick in a home win against Liverpool (we did the double over them that season), a draw at home against the eventual champions, Arsenal Invincible, the Boxing Day mauling of Chelsea at The Valley, the wonderful chaos of Blackburn's 'keeper, Brad Friedel, scoring an injury-time equaliser against us live on Sky ... only for Classy Jensen to bag the winner seconds after the restart. We had a squad of players including some absolute legends of the club including Saint Christopher Powell, Dean Kiely, the Hermannator, Captain Cleanshorts, the aforementioned Jensen, the Italian maestro, Paolo Di Canio, and my personal favourite, Kish. Good times.
This season we have: scraped a win against Leyton Orient, freshly promoted from Division Four; been unceremoniously dumped out of the League Cup by Fourth Division Newport County; lost at Peterborough and then followed that up to a home defeat against the second-best team in Bristol. We played a front two that is so small they could have stood on each other other's shoulders and still wouldn't get to Hermann's chin ... and we were playing high balls to them. We're pinning our goal-scoring hopes on inexperienced kids, one of whom isn't even fit, and a player who is unable to stay onside. Our defence isn't capable collectively of staying awake and concentrating for the entirety of a match.
EDIT: How could I forget? This is our 11th season in the Third Division out of the last 16; we'd had 14 seasons at this level prior to that in our history and ten of those were by the mid-1930s. After joining the Football League for the 1921-22 season we were in Division Three (South) for eight seasons, gaining promotion to Division Two in 1929. Since then it has never taken us more than three season to get out of this division ... until now: in our fourth season in this spell and right now I wouldn't bet against us having a fifth (maybe more) in the third tier.
What a time to be alive and following the Charlton Athletic Football Club.
My son was born in Sept 2003. I keep reminding him that his birth started our downfall.
Comments
Go bob bob bobbing along
?
new one is up, fair warning, it's a lengthy one
My view is at the end, but in short,
AMB doesn't give me confidence, we need a centre back with pace desperately, need more height and speed in the team in general and of course, the elusive target man.
the game was actually really close, make no mistake. Just like Peterborough this could have gone our way, don't lose too much faith, a win against Port Vale now becomes vital though to keep teams we plan to compete with in touching distance.
enjoy
The problem with the team - in addition to the absence of an experienced strike partner for May and a lack of squad depth - is its continuing fragility in defence and an inability to manage games to carve out results. Individually, the performance of our defenders varied between ok and good but, collectively, we have a very soft underbelly. There are certainly mentality and coaching issues here that need to be addressed.
Once the window closes on 1 September, it would probably help to try and introduce some consistency in selection and style with, hopefully, the development of some effective partnerships across the team. Despite the gut punch of that last minute winner, I'm not too despondent although we need to turn things around quickly, starting on Saturday.
Patience is not in plentiful supply.
And yet, I agree with Greg Stubley, up to that point he'd had a good game. He tried hard not to book people, but at the same time had the cojones to book Marquis for cynically trying to buy a foul. The bloke on Saturday was far worse, IMO.
Good move by him.
We have a bench full of kids or players Holden doesn't want to use...
I don't think there's too much I can add other than my 9-year-old granddaughter enjoyed her first game at The Valley (but not the result): "It's better than Norwich" were her words
A bit of perspective on current proceedings ...
20 years ago we were just embarking on what would turn out to be our best season for half a century, a high-point in a golden era under Lord Llewellyn, and could have been even better if the old No 7 hadn't thrown his toys out of the pram and buggered off to Moneybags FC in West London. In the end we missed out on UEFA Cup qualification by two places/three points but we'd had the highs of Lisbinho's hat-trick in a home win against Liverpool (we did the double over them that season), a draw at home against the eventual champions, Arsenal Invincible, the Boxing Day mauling of Chelsea at The Valley, the wonderful chaos of Blackburn's 'keeper, Brad Friedel, scoring an injury-time equaliser against us live on Sky ... only for Classy Jensen to bag the winner seconds after the restart. We had a squad of players including some absolute legends of the club including Saint Christopher Powell, Dean Kiely, the Hermannator, Captain Cleanshorts, the aforementioned Jensen, the Italian maestro, Paolo Di Canio, and my personal favourite, Kish. Good times.
This season we have: scraped a win against Leyton Orient, freshly promoted from Division Four; been unceremoniously dumped out of the League Cup by Fourth Division Newport County; lost at Peterborough and then followed that up to a home defeat against the second-best team in Bristol. We played a front two that is so small they could have stood on each other other's shoulders and still wouldn't get to Hermann's chin ... and we were playing high balls to them. We're pinning our goal-scoring hopes on inexperienced kids, one of whom isn't even fit, and a player who is unable to stay onside. Our defence isn't capable collectively of staying awake and concentrating for the entirety of a match.
EDIT: How could I forget? This is our 11th season in the Third Division out of the last 16; we'd had 14 seasons at this level prior to that in our history and ten of those were by the mid-1930s. After joining the Football League for the 1921-22 season we were in Division Three (South) for eight seasons, gaining promotion to Division Two in 1929. Since then it has never taken us more than three season to get out of this division ... until now: in our fourth season in this spell and right now I wouldn't bet against us having a fifth (maybe more) in the third tier.
What a time to be alive and following the Charlton Athletic Football Club.
I paid for the stream but my PC packed up just before Kanu scored,
once again appreciate your excellent coverage!
I saw it as slightly nervous defenders who had exhausted their short ball options and weren't quite sure what to do. The "to May" bit was more hopeful punt over the top.
We'll probably get more of those second balls when Leaburn or A.N Other is throwing their weight around.
I am planning to make it a bit shorter next time, just got carried away with the first chance at making a proper video at a home game.
Without derailing the thread, is there anything in particular that you think is good or anything you think I should cut?
That would suggest the long ball ploy is deliberate.