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Is Holden under pressure?
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Anybody who think that - 1.Darren Moore or Chris Wilder would come to us . Or 2.We could afford them , are living in cloud cuckoo land .6
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Yep, have seen Darren Moore’s name come upcarly burn said:
I really wouldn't hold your breath for anyone of that ilk.Braziliance said:If he isn't under pressure now, then we aren't a serious club I'm afraid.
That first half display was one of the most inept performances I can remember.
Darren Moore & Chris Wilder both available. I feel harsh but I think discussions need to be bad, I don't think he can turn this around. I'm quite shell shocked at how bad the results have been tbh
I mentioned earlier how we never ever go out and get ourselves a manager with high stock.
This ownership group got in and came up with Dean Holden. A man with little management experience and no pedigree.
This is a huge job now and is going to take someone with real minerals to turn us around.
a couple of times alongside various other far fetched suggestions.I think some of our fans are vastly over estimating the appeal of Charlton these days. Managers in the recent past who have managed at a higher level or been successful at this level are not going to come to a club with an imbalanced, mediocre squad, a long term track record of failure and a bizarre ownership situation with seemingly limited funds.12 -
se9addick said:
Yep, have seen Darren Moore’s name come upcarly burn said:
I really wouldn't hold your breath for anyone of that ilk.Braziliance said:If he isn't under pressure now, then we aren't a serious club I'm afraid.
That first half display was one of the most inept performances I can remember.
Darren Moore & Chris Wilder both available. I feel harsh but I think discussions need to be bad, I don't think he can turn this around. I'm quite shell shocked at how bad the results have been tbh
I mentioned earlier how we never ever go out and get ourselves a manager with high stock.
This ownership group got in and came up with Dean Holden. A man with little management experience and no pedigree.
This is a huge job now and is going to take someone with real minerals to turn us around.
a couple of times alongside various other far fetched suggestions.I think some of our fans are vastly over estimating the appeal of Charlton these days. Managers in the recent past who have managed at a higher level or been successful at this level are not going to come to a club with an imbalanced, mediocre squad, a long term track record of failure and a bizarre ownership situation with seemingly limited funds.
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Sums the situation up.0
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Gents you say that but Wilder almost ended up at Reading this season but because of their financial situation it fell through.
I couldn't imagine Darren Moore turning his nose up at us, unless we really have become that tinpot.
Either way it's pretty bleak if we can't afford one of them as teams in this division have done and probably will4 -
Wilder has done poorly at his last few jobs. He would also mean more 3-5-2 which could maybe get the best out of May but I’m not sure our squad suits him, particularly the centre backs. Same with Moore, Sheff Weds were a team of giants last season and I’m not sure our squad suits how he’d want to play. That is our problem though, the squad is a mix and match of players that fit various styles and formations but therefore don’t fit together in one.Nathan Jones would be my choice but maybe unrealistic. Bowyer could be an option too, could come in and make an impact short term at the very least0
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Im conflicted. We have some fans saying he has a decent squad and we should have won most of the games so far therefore Holden out, and others are saying the squad is too small and injury ridden for anyone to get a tune out of so its not his fault.
Bowyer managed to get a promotion winning side from a squad that looked like relegation strugglers in August 2018, so it's possible to do better I think. LB had advantages that season that Holden hasn't got (maybe disadvantages too?), so it's not an apples to apples comparison. So yeah..... I don't know what to think.
One thing is for certain, the whole top to bottom organisation of Charlton Athletic right now is setup for failure.2 -
My perspective is that it’s not a great squad (it’s very unbalanced for a start) but he should be doing better than relegation form with it. Mediocre squad and poorly performing manager is a bad combination, but it’s easier to change the latter part of that combination than the former.CAFCTrev said:Im conflicted. We have some fans saying he has a decent squad and we should have won most of the games so far therefore Holden out, and others are saying the squad is too small and injury ridden for anyone to get a tune out of so we are stuck.
Bowyer managed to get a promotion winning side from a squad that looked like relegation strugglers in August 2018, so it's possible to do better I think. LB had advantages that season that Holden hasn't got (maybe disadvantages too?), so it's not an apples to apples comparison. So yeah..... I don't know what to think.5 -
Wilder's career looks like it could be following a similar trajectory to Adkins'.NabySarr said:Wilder has done poorly at his last few jobs. He would also mean more 3-5-2 which could maybe get the best out of May but I’m not sure our squad suits him, particularly the centre backs. Same with Moore, Sheff Weds were a team of giants last season and I’m not sure our squad suits how he’d want to play. That is our problem though, the squad is a mix and match of players that fit various styles and formations but therefore don’t fit together in one.Nathan Jones would be my choice but maybe unrealistic. Bowyer could be an option too, could come in and make an impact short term at the very least
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Our defence was crap last season as well, with 3 of the same CBs and the manager we have now so we should not be surprised. Holden was lucky last season to have JRS and a fit Leaburn to score enough goals to make up for the crap defence. Not this season.3
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I know very little about his limited playing career, but as I understand it he was a right back, which means he should at least have a semblance of an idea when it comes to the defensive side of the game.Garrymanilow said:The thing I'm really concerned about with him is he just clearly doesn't know how to put a defence together. It doesn't matter how good your attackers are if you keep conceding, promotion squads are built on strong defences. Going back to last season Holden's teams seem to make the same mistakes over and over and he doesn't know how to fix it. I was willing to give him time to change the shape to one he was more comfortable with but the defence looks even more lost playing 3 at the back and he's given up on it repeatedly. Countless different formations and overplaying kids. Sure he could do with more players but he also couldn't be doing much worse with what he's got. I honestly feel like if we got a top quality right back, creative midfielder, centre back and striker in tomorrow not that much would change and that does worry me
The biggest niggling thing when we appointed him, was who is he? As much as he did okay toward the end of last season and said some pr friendly things, let’s not forget his career was going nowhere before he got this opportunity via his relationships with our new set up. I’m not one to prescribe to stature and history, but for him, given how his managerial career has started, he’s bloody lucky to have a club of our size interested in him. He could quite easily be shuffling around a Barrow or some other league two teams
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Not true. I remember going to the opening day defeat at Sunderland, disappointed at the defeat, but feeling really proud of the side, and hopeful for the season once we strengthened a bit.CAFCTrev said:Im conflicted. We have some fans saying he has a decent squad and we should have won most of the games so far therefore Holden out, and others are saying the squad is too small and injury ridden for anyone to get a tune out of so its not his fault.
Bowyer managed to get a promotion winning side from a squad that looked like relegation strugglers in August 2018, so it's possible to do better I think. LB had advantages that season that Holden hasn't got (maybe disadvantages too?), so it's not an apples to apples comparison. So yeah..... I don't know what to think.
One thing is for certain, the whole top to bottom organisation of Charlton Athletic right now is setup for failure.
This current side is way below that team.3 -
We couldn't even fill our bench that day. I'd say people were more expectant on opening day this season than they were ahead kf that Sunderland match.killerandflash said:
Not true. I remember going to the opening day defeat at Sunderland, disappointed at the defeat, but feeling really proud of the side, and hopeful for the season once we strengthened a bit.CAFCTrev said:Im conflicted. We have some fans saying he has a decent squad and we should have won most of the games so far therefore Holden out, and others are saying the squad is too small and injury ridden for anyone to get a tune out of so its not his fault.
Bowyer managed to get a promotion winning side from a squad that looked like relegation strugglers in August 2018, so it's possible to do better I think. LB had advantages that season that Holden hasn't got (maybe disadvantages too?), so it's not an apples to apples comparison. So yeah..... I don't know what to think.
One thing is for certain, the whole top to bottom organisation of Charlton Athletic right now is setup for failure.
This current side is way below that team.
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Who's decision was it to resign Thomas and Hector?
Who decided to bring in Camera, Jones and Taylor whom, 5 games in are still struggling for match fitness?
The recruitment is just weird and has been for years.
All that said, starting against a form L1 team with Elerwere aged 19 and Ness aged 21 as two CB's and Assimwe (18) as RB was absolute madness. Especially when you include our other defenders many of them have never played a pro match together so there is no relationship or understanding built. This is stuff that should have been sorted through pre season.
Even given that I would give Holden another 2-3 games minimum, swapping managers so regularly has not helped in recent years and he does seem to get the club; he just now needs to prove himself.
As an outside alternative if he did leave... Wes Morgan. I always thought Powell had an advantage having come off PFA Chair and so well connected. Wes Morgan will be well connected for same reason and a bloody good ex defender with PL connections too.6 -
Some questions need to be asked about our coaching setup, we seem very light on coaching compared to other clubs. As someone mentioned previously the amount of players who come in and we ruin is no coincidence. Hayes and Senda are inexperienced when it comes to first team football.
It's probably quite cheap though and the results speak for themselves0 -
Gotta give him ten games. If we change now then it’s just rinse and repeat.ShootersHillGuru said:
Something has to change. Holden has never had any success as a manager before us and I can’t see anything about his tenure that leads me to think he’ll achieve it with us. Certainly let’s stick with it for now but we’re so far off looking like being able to make top six. I’ve never played football manager.stop_shouting said:
“A foreigner with fresh ideas”. What like Luzon, Peeters, freye, some of the others….streuth.ShootersHillGuru said:Should Holden depart which I think extremely unlikely then I don’t want either Powell or Bowyer back. We seem to have an obsession with ex players and now seemingly ex managers. Personally I have no clue who we could get anyway. Someone with no connection or knowledge of Charlton or League One this time perhaps. A foreigner with fresh ideas. We’re stale as a club.Stick with Holden. We’re 5 games in ffs. This isn’t football manager.1 -
This is the main argument against the "we need consistency"/"he's not had the players" arguments (both of which I do get but are running out of validity.)Southbank said:Our defence was crap last season as well, with 3 of the same CBs and the manager we have now so we should not be surprised. Holden was lucky last season to have JRS and a fit Leaburn to score enough goals to make up for the crap defence. Not this season.
Holden seems to be a good man manager and a likeable guy however it's hard to point out any time under his management we've been anything other than an average at best team with one or two excellent players. As soon as those players are out of the equation we look absolutely terrible.
I don't know who would come in and I don't know if/how they would do any better but I find it hard to believe there's many who could do WORSE than 5 defeats on the spin.1 -
I'm sure Holden will be gone sooner or later.
But unless the new manager is allowed to bring in his own backroom staff things will not improve.
Holden is a young inexperienced manager and he badly needs a couple of experienced coaches to help him.
But all Charlton have done is promote a couple of coaches from the various youth teams.
A clean sweep is what's needed and the new manager must be able to choose his own coaching staff, people who he knows he can trust otherwise nothing will change.4 -
It's definitely true, I remember listening to the Charlton Live show the day after, and there were genuine fears that we might seriously struggle that season. We then went on to win only 1 out of 5 games in August.killerandflash said:
Not true. I remember going to the opening day defeat at Sunderland, disappointed at the defeat, but feeling really proud of the side, and hopeful for the season once we strengthened a bit.CAFCTrev said:Im conflicted. We have some fans saying he has a decent squad and we should have won most of the games so far therefore Holden out, and others are saying the squad is too small and injury ridden for anyone to get a tune out of so its not his fault.
Bowyer managed to get a promotion winning side from a squad that looked like relegation strugglers in August 2018, so it's possible to do better I think. LB had advantages that season that Holden hasn't got (maybe disadvantages too?), so it's not an apples to apples comparison. So yeah..... I don't know what to think.
One thing is for certain, the whole top to bottom organisation of Charlton Athletic right now is setup for failure.
This current side is way below that team.1 -
Does the budget allow them to pay off the manager and recruit another?I assume it will be difficult to go to the investors so soon and seek more funding.I believe they will leave him in place and conclude whatever signings are in the pipeline.A break point for the January transfer window allows them to adjust the budget without looking foolish.0
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You'd keep him in charge if we lose to Fleetwood next week?stop_shouting said:
Gotta give him ten games. If we change now then it’s just rinse and repeat.ShootersHillGuru said:
Something has to change. Holden has never had any success as a manager before us and I can’t see anything about his tenure that leads me to think he’ll achieve it with us. Certainly let’s stick with it for now but we’re so far off looking like being able to make top six. I’ve never played football manager.stop_shouting said:
“A foreigner with fresh ideas”. What like Luzon, Peeters, freye, some of the others….streuth.ShootersHillGuru said:Should Holden depart which I think extremely unlikely then I don’t want either Powell or Bowyer back. We seem to have an obsession with ex players and now seemingly ex managers. Personally I have no clue who we could get anyway. Someone with no connection or knowledge of Charlton or League One this time perhaps. A foreigner with fresh ideas. We’re stale as a club.Stick with Holden. We’re 5 games in ffs. This isn’t football manager.0 -
Controversial and I cannot believe I am suggesting it but if the owners do have a bit of money to spend then go steal Steve Evans from Stevenage.
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Holden’s replacement person specification:
The successful candidate MUST be:
Cheap
Unemployed
Desperate
Compliant
An understanding of football or any track record of success would be useful, but is not essential.4 -
Stealing is generally covert! Try covertly stealing shamu the killer whale from Stevenage city centreValleyBen said:Controversial and I cannot believe I am suggesting it but if the owners do have a bit of money to spend then go steal Steve Evans from Stevenage.4 -
I’d be happy with Wes Morgan at centre backAthletico Charlton said:Who's decision was it to resign Thomas and Hector?
Who decided to bring in Camera, Jones and Taylor whom, 5 games in are still struggling for match fitness?
The recruitment is just weird and has been for years.
All that said, starting against a form L1 team with Elerwere aged 19 and Ness aged 21 as two CB's and Assimwe (18) as RB was absolute madness. Especially when you include our other defenders many of them have never played a pro match together so there is no relationship or understanding built. This is stuff that should have been sorted through pre season.
Even given that I would give Holden another 2-3 games minimum, swapping managers so regularly has not helped in recent years and he does seem to get the club; he just now needs to prove himself.
As an outside alternative if he did leave... Wes Morgan. I always thought Powell had an advantage having come off PFA Chair and so well connected. Wes Morgan will be well connected for same reason and a bloody good ex defender with PL connections too.2 -
Ideally paired with Darren Moore.NabySarr said:
I’d be happy with Wes Morgan at centre backAthletico Charlton said:Who's decision was it to resign Thomas and Hector?
Who decided to bring in Camera, Jones and Taylor whom, 5 games in are still struggling for match fitness?
The recruitment is just weird and has been for years.
All that said, starting against a form L1 team with Elerwere aged 19 and Ness aged 21 as two CB's and Assimwe (18) as RB was absolute madness. Especially when you include our other defenders many of them have never played a pro match together so there is no relationship or understanding built. This is stuff that should have been sorted through pre season.
Even given that I would give Holden another 2-3 games minimum, swapping managers so regularly has not helped in recent years and he does seem to get the club; he just now needs to prove himself.
As an outside alternative if he did leave... Wes Morgan. I always thought Powell had an advantage having come off PFA Chair and so well connected. Wes Morgan will be well connected for same reason and a bloody good ex defender with PL connections too.0 -
I actually agree. Anything less than ten would be ridiculous but it’s quite possible that by then our season will be over. What will be will be.stop_shouting said:
Gotta give him ten games. If we change now then it’s just rinse and repeat.ShootersHillGuru said:
Something has to change. Holden has never had any success as a manager before us and I can’t see anything about his tenure that leads me to think he’ll achieve it with us. Certainly let’s stick with it for now but we’re so far off looking like being able to make top six. I’ve never played football manager.stop_shouting said:
“A foreigner with fresh ideas”. What like Luzon, Peeters, freye, some of the others….streuth.ShootersHillGuru said:Should Holden depart which I think extremely unlikely then I don’t want either Powell or Bowyer back. We seem to have an obsession with ex players and now seemingly ex managers. Personally I have no clue who we could get anyway. Someone with no connection or knowledge of Charlton or League One this time perhaps. A foreigner with fresh ideas. We’re stale as a club.Stick with Holden. We’re 5 games in ffs. This isn’t football manager.0 -
We're seeing the same pattern repeated season after season. We keep changing managers and end up back in the same situation. We might not get a new manager bounce this time and the more desperate the appointments get, the less likely it is.
He's not really had the chance to field a team that isn't decimated by injuries and undercooked, so it's not easy to assess properly. He must do better with what he's got available though. I'd certainly give him a few more games, but keep losing and those upstairs are bound to get twitchy as the season is salvageable at the moment.
If we lose to Fleetwood, with no disrespect to the opposition, those who appointed him must wonder if he's likely to bring us success in time, so yes, he's definitely under pressure that only a win then will ease.
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We’ve got to stop looking backwards. Need a fresh start.covered_end_junior said:Who do we go for should we end up looking elsewhere?Bowyer and Powell both available…
Don't want them to get the club as much as I want them to get football.0 -
It took Methven until the end of October to sack the manager in Sunderland’s relegation season. The only thing the football side of this club is good at is making the same mistakes. So he’ll be gone then, which may be too late.
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