The last successful team we had was bowyers 443 diamond.
Agree. But the diamond is very different to a flat 442.
A diamond enables you to have 4 central midfielders packing that middle area. And for it to work you need two strikers mobile enough to pull out wide. Like we had in 18/19 with Lyle and Karlan.
A flat 442, would get overrun with CBT and Tyreece on the wings.
The alternative way of playing 442 would be like the Powell side, where you have a winger on one side, and a wide midfielder on the other, who can tuck in to add an extra body in midfield.
442 is rare these days (and for a reason). The only team I can think of that have played it consistently with any success is Simeone's Atletico Madrid. And that style of football wouldn't go down well here, neither has it been replicated elsewhere.
442 is rare these days (and for a reason). The only team I can think of that have played it consistently with any success is Simeone's Atletico Madrid. And that style of football wouldn't go down well here, neither has it been replicated elsewhere.
Yeah true, and even then, they played with 3 central midfielders, and one winger. Often Koke was on the right side, but didn’t play as a winger.
442 is rare these days (and for a reason). The only team I can think of that have played it consistently with any success is Simeone's Atletico Madrid. And that style of football wouldn't go down well here, neither has it been replicated elsewhere.
Yeah, I'd be mightily pissed off if we replicated "that style of football" down the Valley! Can't stand a winning style...awful haha!
If we lose again to fleetwood then surely he has to be under pressure but it’s such a terrible time for a new manager to come in regarding transfers. Think it should be Powell or Bowyer as replacement if he goes due to history showing we do better with managers with a connection with the club.
Should Holden depart which I think extremely unlikely then I don’t want either Powell or Bowyer back. We seem to have an obsession with ex players and now seemingly ex managers. Personally I have no clue who we could get anyway. Someone with no connection or knowledge of Charlton or League One this time perhaps. A foreigner with fresh ideas. We’re stale as a club.
“A foreigner with fresh ideas”. What like Luzon, Peeters, freye, some of the others….streuth.
Stick with Holden. We’re 5 games in ffs. This isn’t football manager.
Something has to change. Holden has never had any success as a manager before us and I can’t see anything about his tenure that leads me to think he’ll achieve it with us. Certainly let’s stick with it for now but we’re so far off looking like being able to make top six. I’ve never played football manager.
Gotta give him ten games. If we change now then it’s just rinse and repeat.
You'd keep him in charge if we lose to Fleetwood next week?
Yes as my post would imply. If your scenario is correct and we bin him, do we do the same to the next manager if he wins one and loses five of his first six? At some point we’ve got to stick with a manager and allow him to build his squad and instill his culture.
442 is rare these days (and for a reason). The only team I can think of that have played it consistently with any success is Simeone's Atletico Madrid. And that style of football wouldn't go down well here, neither has it been replicated elsewhere.
Yeah, I'd be mightily pissed off if we replicated "that style of football" down the Valley! Can't stand a winning style...awful haha!
No style of football is 'winning.' You can play any style and still lose. We're experts in that!
442 is rare these days (and for a reason). The only team I can think of that have played it consistently with any success is Simeone's Atletico Madrid. And that style of football wouldn't go down well here, neither has it been replicated elsewhere.
Yeah, I'd be mightily pissed off if we replicated "that style of football" down the Valley! Can't stand a winning style...awful haha!
No style of football is 'winning.' You can play any style and still lose. We're experts in that!
Exactly = maybe our team is not good enough, compounded by a poor coaching set up, overrated manager and injuries?
Pick any formation and we will still struggle with a poor team.
Some of the recruitment has been weird, especially in context of this new dawn of ‘competency’. What on earth is going on with Hector and Thomas? I thought our CB room was sealed up with them and Jones.
How is Camara not able to play a few games in a row? Taylor looked at best undercooked in the Port Vale, at worst he was not up to the standard.
Why move on from a bunch of other guys who were similar standard when they joined to the lot we’ve brought it in? McGrandles was playing at the same club as Jones and getting similarly good reviews.
And Holden is low quality no doubt about it. Team selection yesterday was a shocking error.
So it’s everything and we’re going nowhere. Have a great day.
Should Holden depart which I think extremely unlikely then I don’t want either Powell or Bowyer back. We seem to have an obsession with ex players and now seemingly ex managers. Personally I have no clue who we could get anyway. Someone with no connection or knowledge of Charlton or League One this time perhaps. A foreigner with fresh ideas. We’re stale as a club.
“A foreigner with fresh ideas”. What like Luzon, Peeters, freye, some of the others….streuth.
Stick with Holden. We’re 5 games in ffs. This isn’t football manager.
Something has to change. Holden has never had any success as a manager before us and I can’t see anything about his tenure that leads me to think he’ll achieve it with us. Certainly let’s stick with it for now but we’re so far off looking like being able to make top six. I’ve never played football manager.
Gotta give him ten games. If we change now then it’s just rinse and repeat.
You'd keep him in charge if we lose to Fleetwood next week?
Yes as my post would imply. If your scenario is correct and we bin him, do we do the same to the next manager if he wins one and loses five of his first six? At some point we’ve got to stick with a manager and allow him to build his squad and instill his culture.
But he's built a squad that's crap and a losing culture with it. The football was crap under him last year, so it's not as if we're judging him solely after 6 matches.
If we lose to Fleetwood we'll then likely lose at Wigan and Stevenage as well. Giving him 10 matches in the current form would be self destructive.
So if we bullet Holden and bring in a new manager, what happens if he has a s*** opening 15 games do you sack him? Sooner or later a manager has to be backed with recruitment, this is the underlying problem. I was not keen on his appointment but he showed he has potential in getting us out of a hole last season. It is as clear as day that he has very little say in recruitment and the blame lies with whoever makes the decisions. Andy Scott would appear to be a man to point a finger at.
So if we bullet Holden and bring in a new manager, what happens if he has a s*** opening 15 games do you sack him? Sooner or later a manager has to be backed with recruitment, this is the underlying problem. I was not keen on his appointment but he showed he has potential in getting us out of a hole last season. It is as clear as day that he has very little say in recruitment and the blame lies with whoever makes the decisions. Andy Scott would appear to be a man to point a finger at.
So if we bullet Holden and bring in a new manager, what happens if he has a s*** opening 15 games do you sack him? Sooner or later a manager has to be backed with recruitment, this is the underlying problem. I was not keen on his appointment but he showed he has potential in getting us out of a hole last season. It is as clear as day that he has very little say in recruitment and the blame lies with whoever makes the decisions. Andy Scott would appear to be a man to point a finger at.
The trouble is we don’t know who to point the finger at do we ? Previous signings haven’t lived up to expectations even though we paid good money for them. Was that down to TS, MS ? I seem to remember we had been tracking those since before they arrived so was it Gallen ? Bowyer ? Now is the problem Andy Scott, Holden or someone else ? We are faced with years of shite deals and have high earning players that we literally cannot give away. These players are taking up squad places and nothing can be done about that. We certainly need decent players through the door but I doubt we will get them. We need a striker urgently but we have Chucks roaming around somewhere in the medical room being paid and even when he does surface we all know it will be for 6 brief substitute appearances max before he is laid up again. Kirk looks like a Sunday league player who has been out on the piss Saturday night. These are just 2 examples of previous signings that we are now paying for
So if we bullet Holden and bring in a new manager, what happens if he has a s*** opening 15 games do you sack him? Sooner or later a manager has to be backed with recruitment, this is the underlying problem. I was not keen on his appointment but he showed he has potential in getting us out of a hole last season. It is as clear as day that he has very little say in recruitment and the blame lies with whoever makes the decisions. Andy Scott would appear to be a man to point a finger at.
The trouble is we don’t know who to point the finger at do we ? Previous signings haven’t lived up to expectations even though we paid good money for them. Was that down to TS, MS ? I seem to remember we had been tracking those since before they arrived so was it Gallen ? Bowyer ? Now is the problem Andy Scott, Holden or someone else ? We are faced with years of shite deals and have high earning players that we literally cannot give away. These players are taking up squad places and nothing can be done about that. We certainly need decent players through the door but I doubt we will get them. We need a striker urgently but we have Chucks roaming around somewhere in the medical room being paid and even when he does surface we all know it will be for 6 brief substitute appearances max before he is laid up again. Kirk looks like a Sunday league player who has been out on the piss Saturday night. These are just 2 examples of previous signings that we are now paying for
And that is why this lot bought the club - to sort it out.
If they need time, they need to say how long.
At the moment, the fans are not on side and maybe Scott should read his own article.
If we have to wait 2-3 years to clear out the dross, there will be no club left.
I am sick and tired or buillshit excuses from scumbag owners and half wit managers
The trouble is we don’t know who to point the finger at do we ? Previous signings haven’t lived up to expectations even though we paid good money for them. Was that down to TS, MS ? I seem to remember we had been tracking those since before they arrived so was it Gallen ? Bowyer ? Now is the problem Andy Scott, Holden or someone else ? We are faced with years of shite deals and have high earning players that we literally cannot give away. These players are taking up squad places and nothing can be done about that. We certainly need decent players through the door but I doubt we will get them. We need a striker urgently but we have Chucks roaming around somewhere in the medical room being paid and even when he does surface we all know it will be for 6 brief substitute appearances max before he is laid up again. Kirk looks like a Sunday league player who has been out on the piss Saturday night. These are just 2 examples of previous signings that we are now paying for
And that is why this lot bought the club - to sort it out.
If they need time, they need to say how long.
At the moment, the fans are not on side and maybe Scott should read his own article.
If we have to wait 2-3 years to clear out the dross, there will be no club left.
I am sick and tired or buillshit excuses from scumbag owners and half wit managers
Mate I have no idea why this lot bought the club it is a complete mystery to me ! If as looks likely they spent in excess of £10m to do so and now not back it up by funding proper recruitment the mystery is even deeper. I was just pointing out the shit that we find ourselves in is not totally down to them, TS or anyone else we can actually name. What I do know is that this is where we are at and I’m as pissed off as everyone else but I’m dreading the next chapter as all we are likely to hear now is “How can we get PV back in the room” “let’s get Curbs back” etc etc etc !! None of that is going to happen and if this lot don’t step up I’m seriously concerned we won’t exist as a club in a few years
The trouble is we don’t know who to point the finger at do we ? Previous signings haven’t lived up to expectations even though we paid good money for them. Was that down to TS, MS ? I seem to remember we had been tracking those since before they arrived so was it Gallen ? Bowyer ? Now is the problem Andy Scott, Holden or someone else ? We are faced with years of shite deals and have high earning players that we literally cannot give away. These players are taking up squad places and nothing can be done about that. We certainly need decent players through the door but I doubt we will get them. We need a striker urgently but we have Chucks roaming around somewhere in the medical room being paid and even when he does surface we all know it will be for 6 brief substitute appearances max before he is laid up again. Kirk looks like a Sunday league player who has been out on the piss Saturday night. These are just 2 examples of previous signings that we are now paying for
And that is why this lot bought the club - to sort it out.
If they need time, they need to say how long.
At the moment, the fans are not on side and maybe Scott should read his own article.
If we have to wait 2-3 years to clear out the dross, there will be no club left.
I am sick and tired or buillshit excuses from scumbag owners and half wit managers
Mate I have no idea why this lot bought the club it is a complete mystery to me ! If as looks likely they spent in excess of £10m to do so and now not back it up by funding proper recruitment the mystery is even deeper. I was just pointing out the shit that we find ourselves in is not totally down to them, TS or anyone else we can actually name. What I do know is that this is where we are at and I’m as pissed off as everyone else but I’m dreading the next chapter as all we are likely to hear now is “How can we get PV back in the room” “let’s get Curbs back” etc etc etc !! None of that is going to happen and if this lot don’t step up I’m seriously concerned we won’t exist as a club in a few years
is there any need to have a pop at people who have brought actual success to our club?
You defended TS when he had nothing to show he had made any improvements to the club, and yet people who have brought success you talk about in negative terms!
As per a usual Sunday with the family, had a few convos around the league, players, team selections, signings etc.
All things CAFC eventually came back to, would it actually matter? Would it make a difference?
There has been a lot of indecision, confusing selections, bad use of substitutions and everything just feels a bit too messy.
After 11 games, 20 points was a realistic target given we needed a bit more through the door and there are a few fitness & injury issues to overcome. 5 of the opening 11 games have gone and we’re 17 points away from that 20 point target.
So the next question is, do we think we can stop that indecision and tidy it all up to maximise what we get, from what we have over the next 6 games?
There is a lot of deliberating about the new SMT, Scott, the owners group about what they have given Deano so far, why and what that could mean. All valid points, suggestions and opinions until it is proven beyond doubt. What is clear, is we haven’t got anywhere near what we should have already and it doesn’t look like there is a concise plan to change it. Rather a lot of chopping and changing in hope something sticks.
The next 5 games come at the end of 5 full weeks (depending how the pizza cup games are used), that is almost as long as a pre-season.
That is long enough to implement something definite, gain a clear and concise understanding around the basics of it and be able to implement it on the pitch!
I’m not usually one to call for change early but I don’t see enough from DH to make me think he’ll change the direction. I think his race is run and if we persevere with this direction, in what is quite clearly a weaker league this year…so will ours be!
Comments
Agree. But the diamond is very different to a flat 442.
Pick any formation and we will still struggle with a poor team.
If we lose to Fleetwood we'll then likely lose at Wigan and Stevenage as well. Giving him 10 matches in the current form would be self destructive.
Sooner or later a manager has to be backed with recruitment, this is the underlying problem.
I was not keen on his appointment but he showed he has potential in getting us out of a hole last season. It is as clear as day that he has very little say in recruitment and the blame lies with whoever makes the decisions.
Andy Scott would appear to be a man to point a finger at.
Our club is a joke
Big deal!
Recruitment, offloads, loans have been pathetic - how much is he getting paid by his mates?
Fans should remember that they foot the bill for these high wage so called experts like Scott.
A total failure at this point - why bother with someone like this ?
If they need time, they need to say how long.
At the moment, the fans are not on side and maybe Scott should read his own article.
If we have to wait 2-3 years to clear out the dross, there will be no club left.
I am sick and tired or buillshit excuses from scumbag owners and half wit managers
You defended TS when he had nothing to show he had made any improvements to the club, and yet people who have brought success you talk about in negative terms!
50% someone making it up
After 11 games, 20 points was a realistic target given we needed a bit more through the door and there are a few fitness & injury issues to overcome.
5 of the opening 11 games have gone and we’re 17 points away from that 20 point target.
What is clear, is we haven’t got anywhere near what we should have already and it doesn’t look like there is a concise plan to change it. Rather a lot of chopping and changing in hope something sticks.